Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: DarkHawk on August 22, 2012, 11:01:43 AM
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I would like to see a requirement for destruction of the ammo bunker, requiring at least 2000 lb bomb hit to destroy the bunker. What we have here is a concrete encased bunker that no 20 or 30 millimeter round could penetrate. Some will say that the door, steel encased, could be hit. You would be hitting a 3 by 7 foot target at over 300 mph, At least these would be more of a harder target to hit. Now a single plane can take out ords, and radar on a small air field even with 3 or 4 defenders trying to kill him.
Slam On
DHawk
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What advantage do you see in your suggested change?
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All structure damage & hardness values are not much set for realism, but for gameplay purposes. Just see how much more MG rounds do hurt buildings vs bombs and rockets, pund for pound.
If you want to make a request for a change in that area, you might better lay down how it would change the gameplay dynamics to the better. :old:
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he does have a point on saying that a single porker can destroy ord and radar alone, while being nearly unstoppable.
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Well, considering this game tries to be accurate in aircraft and gv characteristics, the ord bunkers (as well as buildings) should be the same.
Quantico Marine Corp base has been there since WWII. I have been inside their ords bunkers. 2 feet thick reinforced concrete covered with 4 feet of earth. The door in fact is a blast door. There is absolutely no way a 20mm,30mm, 37mm or 50mm could destroy these bunkers.
Game dynamics? How about realistic simulation realism.
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+1 - the reason you put ammo in a "bunker" in the first place is to protect it. With the settings we have now, we might as well have the graphic of base ammo storage be a small tin shack instead of a hardened concrete bunker.
Some structures should take NO damage from small caliber fire - the ammo BUNKER is one of them.
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Ammo Magazines are made with very thick walls, and a Thin Roof..
To direct the blast upward in case of catastrophic detonation..
That's the way they are made... Always have been!
Besides, ever see pics of the Bomb farms around Fields in Britain during WW2??
Stacks and Stacks and Stacks of them, under nothing but camo net!
Around any field, from any country, anywhere in a combat zone, for that matter!
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RLTW Johan. :salute
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Game dynamics? How about realistic simulation realism.
So we shouldn't care about impact on gameplay? Doesn't matter as long it meets some standard of 'realism'?
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The hangers and Bunkers are all "representations" for gaming purposes..
Do ya think blowing up the hangar, destroys all the fighters, "in Reality"???
Heck no, in reality, they'd be spread all over the place so you
can't get more than one at a time..
Took me a little while to grasp this point as well..
It needs to be that way!
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At least our ammo dumps are in bunkers in this game.
ammo dump at a USAAF base in England during WW2. Ordnance crews are getting the bombs ready for the next day's mission.
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/37/3792/9KCIF00Z/posters/pair-of-american-servicemen-moving-a-large-bomb-at-an-ammunition-dump-during-wwii.jpg)
Another ammo dump at a USAAF base in England
(http://www.303rdbg.com/gc-bombdump.jpg)
Ammo dump at a USAAF base in Kanchrapara, India during the war.
(http://cbi-theater-1.home.comcast.net/~cbi-theater-1/india/p3.jpg)
Ammo dump at a RAF Bomber base in England
(http://natureonline.com/37/erks---bomb-dump.jpg)
ack-ack
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the smaller WWII bases around here had (a couple still have) earth mounds around the ords. the ords were on palettes in crates, under tarps. Ive seen pics of the same from all over the world.
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Or how about a large secondary explosion when the ammo bunker is hit?
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Or how about a large secondary explosion when the ammo bunker is hit?
+1
(and for hits on ships too :aok)
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I'm going to do some ord strafing in a c202.
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The MEGA bomb farms were on Tinian Saipan and Guam..
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-1
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I would like more realism and I would like it configured to promote better game play..the one does not have to mutually and always exclude the other...........
the challenge is to find a way to enhance both imersion and fun rather than dismiss the exercise as futile under the assumption that it "aint broke" and "dont need fixin".
Local ordinance is tooooo easily porked IMO and game play is unbalanced due to this...........
btw out of ignorance how volatile is an un-armed and unfused 500GPB?
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[quote
btw out of ignorance how volatile is an un-armed and unfused 500GPB?
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u still don't want to do to it what the fuse does to it:)
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I would like more realism and I would like it configured to promote better game play..the one does not have to mutually and always exclude the other...........
the challenge is to find a way to enhance both imersion and fun rather than dismiss the exercise as futile under the assumption that it "aint broke" and "dont need fixin".
Local ordinance is tooooo easily porked IMO and game play is unbalanced due to this...........
btw out of ignorance how volatile is an un-armed and unfused 500GPB?
Actually they are very inert when unfused with the steel plugs in the fuse openings..
Bomb them, and they'd go flying around like thousand pound hunks of shrapnel..
That is why they just left them in the open.. Fuse them, and it's a completely different story!
(edit) Fuses would be kept in the bunker! But, without fuses, the bombs are useless..
So, blow up the bunker, with the fuses = No Ord.. I guess it works out gamewise anyway!
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Actually they are very inert when unfused with the steel plugs in the fuse openings..
Bomb them, and they'd go flying around like thousand pound hunks of shrapnel..
That is why they just left them in the open.. Fuse them, and it's a completely different story!
(edit) Fuses would be kept in the bunker! But, without fuses, the bombs are useless..
So, blow up the bunker, with the fuses = No Ord.. I guess it works out gamewise anyway!
Confucius say....if you drop bomb on un-fused bomb 2 bombs go off...
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Ammo ships were just about equal to an abomb blast without radiation! Imagine that in the game!!! Check out what happened in Pearl late in the war when one went off in the loch west of the base . . unarmed bombs are as volatile as armed bombs when inert, they're both the same when detonated but without fuse or detonators it's not nearly as easy to set off, they can still detonate without being armed if done right. :noid
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Lots of folks keep posting images of bases in England during the war, but what are the dates those pictures are taken? I get a feeling they are at the point in the war were attacks from the enemy, let alone from the air, were near zero. Why bother putting all ye stuff in a bunker when the chances of you getting hit are so slim?
In our case, the front moves around often. While I completely disagree with making the ords bunker require 2k ords, I would say a beef up from 250(?) to at least 500 or possibly 750. Would not want to push it further than 750, as it would likely cause more harm than good. Radar seems to be okay-ish but fuel seems a little difficult to take out for what they are in. Are Ords, Troops, Dar and Fuel set for 250lbs of ords to go up? Having trouble remembering... :headscratch:
If all at 250, then what about this?
Ords: 500-750
Dar: 200
Fuel: 100*
Troops: 250
*I am not sure how well protected fuel stores were during the war. I would guess that fuel tanks were fairly easy to destroy when out in the open like ours?
Since we don't get less than 75% fuel at a base with all fuel porked, lowering it's resistance may not be overly bad. Were fuel stores spread out at bases like ours are or were they in a more centralized-ish location?
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If the Ammo Bunker requires a 2,000+lb bomb (not any combination adding up to 2000+lbs, but individual bombs that large) hordes would be even more potent and CVs even shorter lived.
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In 1968 during Tet, Sappers got into the Ammo dump at Long Binh, and touch off a pad of 500 pounders. At the time , the Long Binh Ammo dump was the largest ammo dump in the world. It exploded in a chain reaction for another 21 days. At the same time, business was as usual, picking up and dropping off loads of Ammo at the Long Binh Ammo dump.
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he does have a point on saying that a single porker can destroy ord and radar alone, while being nearly unstoppable.
yes...way to easy for one suicidal/Kamikaze, one hit wonder, can take out all ords at bases surrounding a field they want to take. at least rkts, not cannons & a single plane. :old:
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In 1968 during Tet, Sappers got into the Ammo dump at Long Binh, and touch off a pad of 500 pounders. At the time , the Long Binh Ammo dump was the largest ammo dump in the world. It exploded in a chain reaction for another 21 days. At the same time, business was as usual, picking up and dropping off loads of Ammo at the Long Binh Ammo dump.
Only because they "Cooked-Off" low order detonation. If they had gone live, WOW! that would have been a light show for sure. We lost 5x F-111's due to a bad ground bolt in the flight line while loading LOX. All5 were loaded w/ 500lb'ers. Still 1/4 mile down the runway we could hear flack skipping down the runway, ting, ting, ting....talking about trying to dig a whole in the floor to get under it.... :eek: :uhoh
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I think this is more a case of Hitech wanting players to be able to make an impact on the battle with strategy even if they fly solo.
Porking is a full dimension of gameplay by itself in my opinion.
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Only because they "Cooked-Off" low order detonation. If they had gone live, WOW! that would have been a light show for sure. We lost 5x F-111's due to a bad ground bolt in the flight line while loading LOX. All5 were loaded w/ 500lb'ers. Still 1/4 mile down the runway we could hear flack skipping down the runway, ting, ting, ting....talking about trying to dig a whole in the floor to get under it.... :eek: :uhoh
it was a very impressive light show and it was a combination of rounds cooking off and other's going off from delayed sapper charges . Plus the little bugger had run accross a pad of claymores and had taken the time to rig a few with trip wires. EOD never stood a chance. I think by the end of Tet, EOD at Long Binh and lost like half their detatchment.
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That sucks! :salute :salute :salute