Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Squire on August 22, 2012, 10:46:42 PM
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There actually is no such rule in FSO but in the past there was an understanding that it could be mutually agreed to by both CiCs. After reviewing the circumstances of frame 3 last week its been determined that there is little use to the practice and so it is no longer an option available to the CiCs. The Setup CM may end the event early only if all players are towered out. Otherwise the event will time out to T+120 min and the logs will close.
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:salute
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cc
:salute
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rgr that sir. :salute
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Good call and thank you for taking our comments to heart <S>.
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There actually is no such rule in FSO but in the past there was an understanding that it could be mutually agreed to by both CiCs. After reviewing the circumstances of frame 3 last week its been determined that there is little use to the practice and so it is no longer an option available to the CiCs. The Setup CM may end the event early only if all players are towered out. Otherwise the event will time out to T+120 min and the logs will close.
I hate to sound negative, but to me that sounds like the few whiners changed policy.
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We reviewed it and the consenus was its more grief than its worth. Its hardly a cornerstone of play in FSO. When is the last time you had a great memory of fun in FSO because of a ceasefire? its an administrative function and nothing more and I personally won't miss it.
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All I can add, then, is that you will need to start cracking down on the lonewolf MA furballer mentality that makes folks ignore CO's orders to land when their mission is done. Instead you'll get 1 or 2 solo pilots holding up the arena for an hour when their entire side has towered.
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All I can add, then, is that you will need to start cracking down on the lonewolf MA furballer mentality that makes folks ignore CO's orders to land when their mission is done. Instead you'll get 1 or 2 solo pilots holding up the arena for an hour when their entire side has towered.
Personally for me, a very valid point! Totally agree sir :salute
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Hey JDog. :)
Good call Squire. :aok
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All I can add, then, is that you will need to start cracking down on the lonewolf MA furballer mentality that makes folks ignore CO's orders to land when their mission is done. Instead you'll get 1 or 2 solo pilots holding up the arena for an hour when their entire side has towered.
I have been flying in FSO for 4 years and have NEVER had a CiC tell me to land. Only reminded me that if I do not land before T+120 we get a penalty and of course I will land before then. The event is 2 hrs long, I dont know why it is such a big deal to play for both of those hours.
Furthermore, if the Allies have 0 pilots and Axis have 42 at T+90, the event should go on. Why, you might ask. Because the Axis have earned the right by decimating the Allied punks to destroy ground targets and showing no mercy. It becomes as a reward for doing so well in the air. In Frame 2 of July's FSO the Axis did very well and there were not many enemy fighters left. So I told my bomber crews you may land or hit your target a second time. Most of them went for a second sortie and racked up lots of free points for the Axis BECAUSE our fighters did such a great job in the air.
Seems only logical to me. OF course it goes both ways. If the Axis only have 4 pilots left the Allies should go annhilate Axis targets with no resistance, they've earned it.
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I have been flying in FSO for 4 years and have NEVER had a CiC tell me to land. Only reminded me that if I do not land before T+120 we get a penalty and of course I will land before then. The event is 2 hrs long, I dont know why it is such a big deal to play for both of those hours.
Furthermore, if the Allies have 0 pilots and Axis have 42 at T+90, the event should go on. Why, you might ask. Because the Axis have earned the right by decimating the Allied punks to destroy ground targets and showing no mercy. It becomes as a reward for doing so well in the air. In Frame 2 of July's FSO the Axis did very well and there were not many enemy fighters left. So I told my bomber crews you may land or hit your target a second time. Most of them went for a second sortie and racked up lots of free points for the Axis BECAUSE our fighters did such a great job in the air.
Seems only logical to me. OF course it goes both ways. If the Axis only have 4 pilots left the Allies should go annhilate Axis targets with no resistance, they've earned it.
agreed 100% :salute
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Hey JDog. :)
Good call Squire. :aok
Hi DD :salute
Been a while sir.
Perd, you make a great point, and I can agree with it. My take on Krusty comment had to do with following the Cic's orders and such. I rereading his post and your as well, I think that is the one detail point that may have escaped so to speak. I've been Cic 3 or 4 times now, not following orders happens :(
In reguards to you response, if no orders come down to cease activities, and your within your orders from a Cic for the 2 hour frame..... GAME ON!!
:salute
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Furthermore, if the Allies have 0 pilots and Axis have 42 at T+90, the event should go on. Why, you might ask. Because the Axis have earned the right by decimating the Allied punks to destroy ground targets and showing no mercy. It becomes as a reward for doing so well in the air. In Frame 2 of July's FSO the Axis did very well and there were not many enemy fighters left. So I told my bomber crews you may land or hit your target a second time. Most of them went for a second sortie and racked up lots of free points for the Axis BECAUSE our fighters did such a great job in the air.
Seems only logical to me. OF course it goes both ways. If the Axis only have 4 pilots left the Allies should go annhilate Axis targets with no resistance, they've earned it.
where to start on this, wow perd your really getting your second wind.
I guarantee this mentality will chase players away from the FSO. They face enough hordes in the MA.
Allied Punks Really?
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Oh and you released the bombers to do so? Were you in a bomber or were you surrounded by your large formation of friendly fighters chasing down stragglers as usual? You seem to take a lot of pride in finding ac late in the frame and ganging them.
I'm sure you will say something like I'm a tard etc etc. So let me put it straight. You don't care about the fun of the event just how well you do in it. You complain and for some reason rules are changed because you complained. Personally I find this reprehensible and that's all I have to say about it.
:salute to others that are tired of this hypocrisy.
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There actually is no such rule in FSO but in the past there was an understanding that it could be mutually agreed to by both CiCs. After reviewing the circumstances of frame 3 last week its been determined that there is little use to the practice and so it is no longer an option available to the CiCs. The Setup CM may end the event early only if all players are towered out. Otherwise the event will time out to T+120 min and the logs will close.
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:salute to others that are tired of this hypocrisy.
I :salute you back sir.
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Oh and you released the bombers to do so? Were you in a bomber or were you surrounded by your large formation of friendly fighters chasing down stragglers as usual?
My squad were in Ki-61s and was CiC for that frame. We encouraged the bombers to make a second run. Very few squads who are assigned bombers make a second attempt at hitting targets after their first run, even if there is time to do so. When we are assigned buffs, we always plan a second run attempt if time allows. In this particular case, our defensive fighters did a marvelous job killing the enemy bombers and escorts, we determined that their best chance for more action was to escort our buffs on a second run. These secondary missions can be the difference between victory and defeat of the frame, but more so it provides all pilots the opportunity to enjoy the full 120 minutes of the frame.
You seem to take a lot of pride in finding ac late in the frame and ganging them.
In frame 3 of this past FSO, 2 of the remaining 4 axis pilots were myself and Sukov(KoolAid). Were were still looking for a fights after T+60, and likely would have been ganged based on the numbers. I can guarantee, that any KN member would have went looking for a fight under these circumstances. I was separated from Sukov by over a sector when I found a pair of low P-38s (who as it turns out had just vulched some axis pilots at a nearby base) Rather than wait for Sukov, I elected to engage the 38s. As you already know, the ceasefire was called during this fight, and I was shot down after the fact.
Does that really sound hypocritical to you?
Edited for spelling.
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If I find RTB Allies late in the frame and gang them it is because my squad has performed better than the lesser-piloted squad I find, correct? And yes, I do take pride in finding guys late in the frame. It is not easy to do. Ask any of my squaddies I am sure they will tell you that I shine when cons are reported or even if they are not reported and I go out looking for them. I usually sniff them out and hit them where it hurts.
You dont like it? Sorry bro cant help it. Fly Axis or under my squad name and you will freaking love it. Personally, I do not see where the hypocrisy is. If you'd like to explain it please do so.
Maybe the hypocrisy is in the fact that I hate being ganged in MA but end up outnumbering enemies late in FSO frames. I will NEVER feel bad for outnumbering a squad late in an FSO frame and I can guarantee I will NEVER show any mercy in an event.
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I have a lot of work to do over the next few days to a weak Perd due to a approaching storm, so I don't have the time to go in to the logs and pull out the times that I need to to show the proof of my next statement but rest assured I will as soon as I can. Or anyone who is interested is free to do so for themselves.
Over several FSOs I checked the logs, remembering your complaints and the changes the staff made on your behalf, ranging from this last change that apparently changed the "rules" of the FSO, to the CICs layout of the game when you were unhappy you had to fire rockets from your 110s before your guns, to the there were to many F4us for my KIs to handle. Before every single one of these post you were shot down. Id be willing to bet that's nothing new.
I'm seriously not trying to start a war with KN but I'm sick of it. Each and everyone of you is better than that.
But hey what do I Know I'm just one of the "Allied punks"
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The F4U Ki-61 thing was in the plans to change very frame anyway so I am not held accountable.
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I have a lot of work to do over the next few days to a weak Perd due to a approaching storm, so I don't have the time to go in to the logs and pull out the times that I need to to show the proof of my next statement but rest assured I will as soon as I can. Or anyone who is interested is free to do so for themselves.
Over several FSOs I checked the logs, remembering your complaints and the changes the staff made on your behalf, ranging from this last change that apparently changed the "rules" of the FSO, to the CICs layout of the game when you were unhappy you had to fire rockets from your 110s before your guns, to the there were to many F4us for my KIs to handle. Before every single one of these post you were shot down. Id be willing to bet that's nothing new.
I'm seriously not trying to start a war with KN but I'm sick of it. Each and everyone of you is better than that.
But hey what do I Know I'm just one of the "Allied punks"
Well obviously we are just angry we got shot down. You have it all figured out. Nice job Sherlock.
Like I have stated before if we see something we view as wrong we bring it up. Of course they don't have to change anything.
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The 110 rocket issue was brought up by us before the CiCs were even picked. Nevermind after we were assigned them for frame 1 or still managing 8 kills dispite a FUBAR approach angle to the bombers.
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There actually is no such rule in FSO but in the past there was an understanding that it could be mutually agreed to by both CiCs. After reviewing the circumstances of frame 3 last week its been determined that there is little use to the practice and so it is no longer an option available to the CiCs. The Setup CM may end the event early only if all players are towered out. Otherwise the event will time out to T+120 min and the logs will close.
I have a lot of work to do over the next few days to a weak Perd due to a approaching storm, so I don't have the time to go in to the logs and pull out the times that I need to to show the proof of my next statement but rest assured I will as soon as I can. Or anyone who is interested is free to do so for themselves.
Over several FSOs I checked the logs, remembering your complaints and the changes the staff made on your behalf, ranging from this last change that apparently changed the "rules" of the FSO, to the CICs layout of the game when you were unhappy you had to fire rockets from your 110s before your guns, to the there were to many F4us for my KIs to handle. Before every single one of these post you were shot down. Id be willing to bet that's nothing new.
I'm seriously not trying to start a war with KN but I'm sick of it. Each and everyone of you is better than that.
But hey what do I Know I'm just one of the "Allied punks"
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Kilo and devil Perd is a CO I'm sure he can defend him self. My statement stands look it up. Oh and I'm not the only "allied punk" that's aware of this.
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Kilo and devil Perd is a CO I'm sure he can defend him self. My statement stands look it up. Oh and I'm not the only "allied punk" that's aware of this.
I am the XO. Your statement can stand all it wants there is no truth to it.
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We reviewed it and the consenus was its more grief than its worth. Its hardly a cornerstone of play in FSO. When is the last time you had a great memory of fun in FSO because of a ceasefire? its an administrative function and nothing more and I personally won't miss it.
Capt1 there are two statements In this post sir that contradicted each other. One says THERE WAS NO RULE. While post number 6 says it was to much "grief" to uphold.
I only saw one side give "grief" over this rule sir. So again my statement stands. How can you miss something that never existed?? No sir! a complaint actually changed a existing rule which the above statement would indicate or a new rule was made as a result of said complaint.
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Capt1 there are two statements In this post sir that contradicted each other. One says THERE WAS NO RULE. While post number 6 says it was to much "grief" to uphold.
I only saw one side give "grief" over this rule sir. So again my statement stands. How can you miss something that never existed?? No sir! a complaint actually changed a existing rule which the above statement would indicate or a new rule was made as a result of said complaint.
Hmm... Attacking the CM now. I'm sure that will help you win the argument. :rolleyes:
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Attacking the CM now.
He's done no such thing.
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There is no rule regarding a cease fire. If you doubt that, go to the AHEvents.org site and look for yourself. It has always been an option to the side CiC's to ask one another to cease fire, although it has seldom been invoked.
The decision has now been made to remove that option; there was no rule in place to update or change. The continued bickering and name-calling, which this thread has become, needs to stop here and now. It is counterproductive and serves no purpose.
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He's done no such thing.
I read his last post as calling Squire a hypocrate and insinuating that he will alter a setup or the rules just because my squad has "grief" with it.
If that's not the case, my mistake.
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ImaDot
:salute
I stand by everything I've said in this post.
(names were only called from one side sir, same side most of the complaints come from.)
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I read his last post as calling Squire a hypocrate and insinuating that he will alter a setup or the rules just because my squad has "grief" with it.
If that's not the case, my mistake.
No that was not my intent devil.
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No that was not my intent devil.
Fair enough.
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There is no rule regarding a cease fire. If you doubt that, go to the AHEvents.org site and look for yourself. It has always been an option to the side CiC's to ask one another to cease fire, although it has seldom been invoked.
Without getting into the negative side of this thread, I will comment on your post:
I dispute the "seldom used" part. I flew FSOs for a long time with USMC/71 Sqn, and it seemed quite a regular occasion that the end of the frame was called early. It seemed to happen at least once every FSO setup (say, 1 in 3), as one side had only 10 in flight and the other only 15, or one side had 50 left, and the frame was called early. From the opinion of somebody that has been shot down because of an early cessation of hostilities, and somebody that has benefitted from the early ending (saving my an hour of flying around never finding the enemy), I will state it was a good thing. It was for the betterment of the team, and NOT the individual.
My 2 cents is if you want to go free hunting, end the frame early and go to the MA. You really don't want to mix MA mentality with FSO. That's how squads get uninvited to participate in FSO.
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My 2 cents is if you want to go free hunting, end the frame early and go to the MA. You really don't want to mix MA mentality with FSO. That's how squads get uninvited to participate in FSO.
I do not see a problem. I have 2 hrs to kill stuff, I am going to take both hrs to find and kill stuff. Sorry :(
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My 2 cents is if you want to go free hunting, end the frame early and go to the MA. You really don't want to mix MA mentality with FSO.
:aok
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Even though the decision has already been made, I will offer my opinion.
The CiC's invests more time in preparing for an event more than any single squadron. Regardless of the playablity factor, winning a frame is always in mind. This decision removes the last chance for a CiC to salvage a frame.
I suggest that the CM's either issue the Axis and Allied orders themselves, or stop scoring the frames and make it just another AvA event.
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Even though the decision has already been made, I will offer my opinion.
The CiC's invests more time in preparing for an event more than any single squadron. Regardless of the playablity factor, winning a frame is always in mind. This decision removes the last chance for a CiC to salvage a frame.
I suggest that the CM's either issue the Axis and Allied orders themselves, or stop scoring the frames and make it just another AvA event.
My puter is really behaving badly. this will be my 3rd attempt to post
I hope this does not happen. Being assigned CiC duty is not only the duty of every squad, but it is also a priveledge. Making up the plan, and trying to coordinate with 1/2 of the people in the event can be very nerve wracking and exciting. Your aim is to obtain your objective, get everyone involved, and not give anything away. Hopefuly everyone gets something out of it.
It was mentioned earlier about following the orders of the CiC. We all know that the CiC has a specific plan in mind and all of that can :bolt: right into the fan at any time. My beef here is when a sqaud is assigned to escort and then on the way they see some nice juicy bombers coming in. Instead of reporting the location/alt/direction etc, they leave their assignment and go after them, leaving the squad(S) do go in alone or with fewer ecsorts. That is MA mentality, and not fair to the their charges, or to the people assigned to defend wherever these bombers were going.
My point here is, there may be a time late in the frame where the CiC may think that there is more to gain by bringing you assets back home instead of keeping them up and putting them at risk. (one scenario is you only get x amount of aircraft for the entire set and you want the next CiC to use whatever is left) Everone wants to inflict as much damage as they can, and we all want kills because it looks great in the logs. But if your CiC tells you one thing and you go maverick and do another, what is the point of have having a CiC, and in that case why should anybody listen to you when it's your turn?
If you want to get your 2 hours in, the MA is open and you can get your jollies there.
I'm not trying to be rude or offend anyone here. I have been doing this for about 10 years and I think it is the best part of Aces High. I have fun in the MA, but in here you get to fly with Rooks, and Knights and Bishops in every scenario, and get to know and respect them as people in here. You may even cut them a little slack back in the MA when they start shooting through trees, incurr no damage after hitting them 5 times and they kill you with one shot in your Tigger, and camp your buttox! :ahand
:salute
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well put Bannor, appreciated brutha...
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Even though the decision has already been made, I will offer my opinion.
The CiC's invests more time in preparing for an event more than any single squadron. Regardless of the playablity factor, winning a frame is always in mind. This decision removes the last chance for a CiC to salvage a frame.
I suggest that the CM's either issue the Axis and Allied orders themselves, or stop scoring the frames and make it just another AvA event.
I second this mentality. Though its probably not a surprise.
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i agree with you bannor that squads should stay with their assignment. Both sides have their trouble with squads not being where they should be or passing up bombers or fighters depending on their mission. I've given orders flying past both in my time. all the CiC has to do is call everyone back to base. Has that EVER happened other than time running out? Not ever to my knowledge. CiCs give orders to go somewhere else and find targets. So I don't know where you're getting this maverick squad stuff. In fact most times the squad CO tells the CiC their in xxx sector and if the CiC doesn't want them there he says so. I've heard the CiC move people but never to not engage or go land (except time). This topic is not about pilots being where they're not suppose to be. And it's not 'MA' mentality to seek out and engage the enemy. The squads are doing it WITH direction from their CiC. There is not now nor was there ever any complaint by anyone that the p-38's in question were wrong in engaging the 109s or vice versa. It was the stoppage in the middle of bullets flying. Now if the CiC gives orders that are ignored those squads usually are handled properly by the CMs and CiCs.
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I can say with some certainty that many a squad late in the frame has been very freely interpreting orders to stick around and spoil for a fight. I've been on command channel quite often, as I was an alternate flight lead for USMC/71 Sqn and would fill in if CO got disco'd. Most of the times at the end of the frame there are no additional orders, and people just pool around looking for trouble. It's more like organized MA than FSO, if I had to describe it.
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I can say with some certainty that many a squad late in the frame has been very freely interpreting orders to stick around and spoil for a fight. I've been on command channel quite often, as I was an alternate flight lead for USMC/71 Sqn and would fill in if CO got disco'd. Most of the times at the end of the frame there are no additional orders, and people just pool around looking for trouble. It's more like organized MA than FSO, if I had to describe it.
And just what is your idea of what FSO is?
Yes, you're absolutely right, Krusty. You and the Allied CiCs need to get a handle on that and make sure no planes are just 'pooling around looking for trouble'.
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not worth replying to. Apparently this is KN's playground, only?
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Viking
You describe a P38 encounter where the statement was, the cease fire gave the 38s a advantage in the middle of the fight because the 109 was so "honorable" and broke off "during" the fight. I think we all know that is flat bull. No one I know reads the txt bar and engages two dangerous ac at the same time. You guys won so why keep up this BS.
I agree with Krusty on this one, it must be KN play ground and god help ya if your allied and dare to contradict you. I always wondered over the last year of playing why you guys got away with the post you do. Now I know. I'm allied and I guess I should just keep my opinion to my self. :t (now that the gate is open I doubt it though)
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Viking, my comment on MA mentality was directed at people/squads leaving the squads/missions they were assigned to protect/accomplish to engage an enemy that will be dealt with by other squads that are assigned to defend a target.
I also understand how this topic began. Stopping in the middle of a fight when a ceasefire is called. That, I think is about near impossible to do. Trying to disengage from a turn fight i think would be too risky. But when it's over, going rtb should be easy enough. My point was about being disciplined enough to do what is asked of a each other, thats all. :salute