Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: vafiii on August 23, 2012, 11:58:58 AM
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What do you consider the best overall matchups between fighter planes both in game and in real life? Seems like the P-51D vs FW190D would be a great matchup. A6M vs the Brewster also seems ideal. Anything else come to mind?
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A6M vs F4F
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Pony vs 190D is pretty good indeed.
my thoughts:
F6F vs Niki
109E vs Spit1
109F vs Spit5/8/9/16
109G2/6/14 vs La5
109K4 vs La7
190A5 vs D-jugs (under 22k of course)
190A5 vs P38J/L
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A6M vs F4F
In a 1V1 I'm afraid there is no matchup here. The A6M rules in key characteristics.
following debrody's drift I'd say
190A5 vs la5
109K4 vs spitfire mk XIV
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D9 and 51 are not really a great match up in the MA. Most of the action in the MA is below 10k where the Mustang has a decided advantage. D9 is a little faster and a little better in the vert at slow speeds, but the mustang handles infinitely better, and its flaps are a huge advantage. If you are just going to show up high and pick a furball, I guess the D9 is pretty good. The 152 and A5 are better match ups for stall fighting the mustang IMO.
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The September FSO pits Spitfires (Mk.Ia and Mk.Vb) against 109s (E-4 and F-4).
More info here: http://www.ahevents.org/fso-current-next-event.html (http://www.ahevents.org/fso-current-next-event.html)
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P47N vs TA152
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My favorite are
109K-4 vs. La7
FM-2 vs. Ki-84
And 110C vs. Hurri 1
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I like Jugs vs 190s or later 109 models :)
Or a P38 v 190A5
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D9 and 51 are not really a great match up in the MA. Most of the action in the MA is below 10k where the Mustang has a decided advantage. D9 is a little faster and a little better in the vert at slow speeds, but the mustang handles infinitely better, and its flaps are a huge advantage. If you are just going to show up high and pick a furball, I guess the D9 is pretty good. The 152 and A5 are better match ups for stall fighting the mustang IMO.
A5 vs Mustang is always fun.
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A5 vs 51, or d9 vs 51, they may be fun once in a while but honestly speaking the mustang holds all the cards, really.
Don't get me wrong, I have a couple specific fond memories of long fights against ponies in both those 190 models, but overall I was just better. It wasn't the plane, for the most part.
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P51B v Yak 9T
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109F v A6M
109G2/G6 v La5/7 (someone who actually know how an La that is)
109K4 v P51D
Most recently...
Mossi 6 v ANYTHING! :aok
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P47 / 152
P38 / K4
P51 / 190D
FM2/ A6M
Brewster / Hurri2C
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Me vs tower. :frown:
Coogan
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D9 and 51 are not really a great match up in the MA. Most of the action in the MA is below 10k where the Mustang has a decided advantage. D9 is a little faster and a little better in the vert at slow speeds, but the mustang handles infinitely better, and its flaps are a huge advantage. If you are just going to show up high and pick a furball, I guess the D9 is pretty good. The 152 and A5 are better match ups for stall fighting the mustang IMO.
Would have to disagree on the pony vs dora, dora has a lot more thrust, pony has flaps but the more it deploys trying to go vert the more it plays into the doras thrust advantage. Oh and a dora can catch a running pony :D
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Would have to disagree on the pony vs dora, dora has a lot more thrust, pony has flaps but the more it deploys trying to go vert the more it plays into the doras thrust advantage. Oh and a dora can catch a running pony :D
Co alt, CO E, the 51 will eliminate the Dora before he ever gets to use those advantages. The only hope the D9 has is to run and come back higher. In that regard the D9 can control the fight simply due to its speed in level flight. If you are talking about a straight up stall fight, the mustang has a clear advantage. The thrust advantage of the D9 is sizable but only a mustang pilot who blows his initial 2-3 chances for a kill would end up being victimized by it. I suppose in the long run if there was no such thing as guns, the D9 might be able to climb its way on top of the fight and eventually get behind the 51.
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What do you consider the best overall matchups between fighter planes both in game and in real life?
Spit I v. 109E is the best, IMHO. Spit 5 v. 109F is also a pretty fair match.
C.202 v. P-38G is a good one.
Hellcat v. Frank, but better pilot should be in the Hellcat.
- oldman
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My favorite are
109K-4 vs. La7
FM-2 vs. Ki-84
And 110C vs. Hurri 1
The KI would own the FM-2 easily. :)
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best match of all:
anybody in any plane against 999 in his b17.
semp
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Anyone care to find a good fight vs Fw190a8 ?
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Ki.61 vs P-38G can lead to some great fights.
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Anyone care to find a good fight vs Fw190a8 ?
Lancaster? :D
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F6F vs Ki84
Ta152 vs p51d
C202 vs spit 5
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The KI would own the FM-2 quite easily. :)
fixed :D
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P-51D vs Bf109G14
Bf109K4 vs P-47M
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C202 vs spit 5
No real contest there... While in reality the C202 was noted as more manueverable than a spitV, in this game it is woefully far worse. The spit holds all the cards, including firepower, acceleration, turn capability, stall handling (it doesn't stall, whereas the C2 has a horrific stall at rather high speeds). The only thing the C2 has is higher top speed at certain alts. Unless the C2 picks and BnZs the entire fight, it's going to lose.
A c202 vs a spit5 is a dead c202, with equal pilots.
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always liked F4U vs anything with a meatball on it
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always liked F4U vs anything with a meatball on it
Yes, but that doesn't make it a good match up. The A6M2 vs any F4U is not a good match up as it heavily favors the F4U.
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Given how the F4u turns as tight as spits with its marvelous flaps in here, anything vs the f4u favors the f4u, justabout!
:bolt:
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Given how the F4u turns as tight as spits with its marvelous flaps in here, anything vs the f4u favors the f4u, justabout!
:bolt:
I out turned an f4u with an albatross, and shot him in the dickpit.. he was pissed... then they changed the DA settings :mad:.
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No real contest there... While in reality the C202 was noted as more manueverable than a spitV, in this game it is woefully far worse. The spit holds all the cards, including firepower, acceleration, turn capability, stall handling (it doesn't stall, whereas the C2 has a horrific stall at rather high speeds). The only thing the C2 has is higher top speed at certain alts. Unless the C2 picks and BnZs the entire fight, it's going to lose.
A c202 vs a spit5 is a dead c202, with equal pilots.
I've flown this match quite a bit. It is a real challenge for the 202 pilot, as Krusty says. Most Spit pilots are so accustomed to flat turns that you can often use the vertical successfully against them...but then, of course, you aren't matching equal pilots.
- oldman
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I dont buy the La5 vs 190 a5. In real life, yes, in AH the a5 will just depart & spin, depart & spin while trying to turn with the La5. Also the La5 is the 3rd fastest accelerating plane (non perk)
and the A5 is lucky if it's in the top 10 or 15. The real 190s had ailerons designed in such a way (dont know if its the chord or length, or what) that would prevent unintentional snaprolling in low speed turnfights. We had a real 190 Ace on the boards a few years back that said as much. :rock
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I've flown this match quite a bit. It is a real challenge for the 202 pilot, as Krusty says. Most Spit pilots are so accustomed to flat turns that you can often use the vertical successfully against them...but then, of course, you aren't matching equal pilots.
- oldman
Correct me if I am wrong, but historically the Spitfire Mk V rather manhandled the C.202 as I understand it.
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The KI would own the FM-2 easily. :)
Not quite :) all the FM-2 has to do is make the Ki think he can win a turn fight. He gets sucked in and then the advantage turns.
Plus the Wildcat isn't as victimized by the BnZ as most may think ;)
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Correct me if I am wrong, but historically the Spitfire Mk V rather manhandled the C.202 as I understand it.
No idea, but I believe it.
- oldman
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Not quite :) all the FM-2 has to do is make the Ki think he can win a turn fight. He gets sucked in and then the advantage turns.
Plus the Wildcat isn't as victimized by the BnZ as most may think ;)
trust me when I say the KI will easily kill a Fm2.....I have smoked the best there is in it every time we have fought, and Not from BnZing him.... :aok
I would be more then happy to show you how deadly the KI is....the only plane in the hanger that is a match for the KI is the spits and then the spit driver better be damn good.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but historically the Spitfire Mk V rather manhandled the C.202 as I understand it.
I believe you're wrong. The Italians were very happy to have a plane that could best the SpitVb on even terms. They reported it was more than a match overall and equally maneuverable as the the spitfire enemies they were up against.
It was said to be able to turn with hurricanes, as well. Far cry from our version.
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No real contest there... While in reality the C202 was noted as more manueverable than a spitV, in this game it is woefully far worse. The spit holds all the cards, including firepower, acceleration, turn capability, stall handling (it doesn't stall, whereas the C2 has a horrific stall at rather high speeds). The only thing the C2 has is higher top speed at certain alts. Unless the C2 picks and BnZs the entire fight, it's going to lose.
A c202 vs a spit5 is a dead c202, with equal pilots.
I'll have to say maybe by facts and figures your right but in game they are a very good fight Co E. C202 is a beast in a dogfight
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I'm very fond of the C.202 in this game. I've landed many sorties with high volume of kills. My claim of fame to my squadmates was landing 12 in a single MA sortie with 1 hotpad halfway through. I've gotten upwards of 10 at other times too.
Against a SpitVb it is woefully outclassed in every way. If you beat a spit while flying a C2 he either wasn't looking at you or he sucked (which is quite common as the lesser skilled newbies seem to gravitate towards spits). Doesn't mean the C2 is any more capable, just that you were better.
Against later planes, it has a few minor advantages, namely it can out-turn some faster planes that have worse turn radii, but against a spit? You're in trouble when it's a 1v1 fair fight.
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An F4U vs spit is usually fun to
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190 Pwns Pony :t
109 Pwns All
FUR DEN FUHRER!
(http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/1/20/35718cba-0b1e-41df-bf91-00a1bc429270.jpg)
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What the Italians claimed and what actually happened may have been two very different things. The reports I have read do not paint a good exchange rate for the C.202 when engaging Spitfire Mk Vs over Malta. Personally I suspect that regardless of what other performance aspects the C.202 may or may not have had over the Spitfire Mk V, like other early Italian fighters its lack of firepower doomed it as an effective warplane.
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What the Italians claimed and what actually happened may have been two very different things. The reports I have read do not paint a good exchange rate for the C.202 when engaging Spitfire Mk Vs over Malta. Personally I suspect that regardless of what other performance aspects the C.202 may or may not have had over the Spitfire Mk V, like other early Italian fighters its lack of firepower doomed it as an effective warplane.
Well, to pull from Wiki:
Allied pilots who flew against the Folgore were impressed with its performance and manoeuvrability.[30] The Macchi C.202 was considered superior to both the Hawker Hurricane and the Curtiss P-40 Kittyhawks it fought against, at first on the Libyan front, and the equal of the Spitfire Mk. V. The C.202 was able to out-turn all three although the Spitfire had a superior rate of climb.[31]
I've read some other accounts as well. I'll see what I can dig up.
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I enjoyed fighting pretty much anything in the 4hog in the DA (provided it was a fight, not a chase). A good match up for me was shida in his Ki
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Fudmukker in game, right?
long time my friend <S>
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I'm surprised no ones mentioned the Typhoon/Tempest against the P51-D, 109K-4 or to a lesser degree the 190D-9.
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I'm surprised no ones mentioned the Typhoon/Tempest against the P51-D, 109K-4 or to a lesser degree the 190D-9.
I sensed that the OP wanted historical matchups. K-4 and Dora would be correct against the Temp, Typhoon and 51, but the T/T v 51 wouldn't quite be right.
- oldman
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K4 vs k4
51 vs 51
Spit9 vs spit9
You see where I'm going with this? These are the best fights the better pilot will win most of the time.
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K4 vs k4
51 vs 51
Spit9 vs spit9
You see where I'm going with this? These are the best fights the better pilot will win most of the time.
Then why do you always beat me? :old:
Wait... :old: :o
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Then why do you always beat me? :old:
Wait... :old: :o
:noid
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K4 vs k4
51 vs 51
Spit9 vs spit9
You see where I'm going with this? These are the best fights the better pilot will win most of the time.
Only if you consider "the best fights" rolling scissors til the cows come home. That's not much of a measure of skill. The best matchups are NOT identical, but where the yin and the yang balance out. Where either plane has some card to play against the other. Like a 2-sided rock paper scissors. (no pun intended)
Thus leaving it up to the pilot to use the proper tool at the proper time.
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K4 vs k4
51 vs 51
Spit9 vs spit9
You see where I'm going with this? These are the best fights the better pilot will win most of the time.
I was gonna say KI vs KI :rofl
and if Krusty can only fight in the scissors thats his problem :aok
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I believe you're wrong. The Italians were very happy to have a plane that could best the SpitVb on even terms. They reported it was more than a match overall and equally maneuverable as the the spitfire enemies they were up against.
It was said to be able to turn with hurricanes, as well. Far cry from our version.
All the Italian pilot reports I have read have one thing in common: Even in c205s they were able to easily turn inside the spit Vs, without even struggling. One Italian shot down 3 spits in 5 minutes in a 205, all in 1v1 fights. (They might have been spit 9s, It's been over a year since I read them)
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Only if you consider "the best fights" rolling scissors til the cows come home. That's not much of a measure of skill. The best matchups are NOT identical, but where the yin and the yang balance out. Where either plane has some card to play against the other. Like a 2-sided rock paper scissors. (no pun intended)
Thus leaving it up to the pilot to use the proper tool at the proper time.
Equal planes the winner flys away victorious. (Most of the time the better pilot)
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Equal planes the winner flys away victorious. (Most of the time the better pilot)
this I disagree with, the better shot will win 90% of the time....
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It's not that I can't rolling scissor. I just find it extremely dull and boring to do nothing but. I'm not the only one, but most 1v1 duels in same plane simply devolve into nothing but rolling scissors. Hell, even Batfink agreed with me on this point, and he does way more duels than I do.
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Ink,
do you remember to our duels? And you know what a horrible shot i am.
Krusty:
the best fights are the endless rope-a-dopes and circle jerks, you know. Scissoring and overshooting is for the dumbnewbs like me.
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Ink,
do you remember to our duels? And you know what a horrible shot i am.
Krusty:
the best fights are the endless rope-a-dopes and circle jerks, you know. Scissoring and overshooting is for the dumbnewbs like me.
you dont give yourself enough credit, you are very good dueler :aokIt's not that I can't rolling scissor. I just find it extremely dull and boring to do nothing but. I'm not the only one, but most 1v1 duels in same plane simply devolve into nothing but rolling scissors. Hell, even Batfink agreed with me on this point, and he does way more duels than I do.
I was messin with ya :neener:
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Good N1K matchups? I'm starting to learn the plane :old:
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If you are looking for planes to duel against: F6F, 109F, Spit8/9/16, all good matchups for the Niki. Still, a good opponent is needed too, whatever he is flying.
:aok
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Fudmukker in game, right?
long time my friend <S>
yessir :salute ...long time no see
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this I disagree with, the better shot will win 90% of the time....
^^^^This!!! I agree with it 100% of the time in same plane matchups!
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Doras love ponys, nom nom.
I've always been partial to fighting F6Fs or the lesser powered F4Us vs. the 190A-8. You can also give the blue birds some added advantage by taking wing cannons in the 190, but then the 190 also gains the advantage of greasing them with 1 or 2 shots at most. More fun matchup than even the Dora vs Pony imho.
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this I disagree with, the better shot will win 90% of the time....
Well, you are right... I mean Grizz is a perfect example. :D ;) :bolt:
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Well, you are right... I mean Grizz is a perfect example. :D ;) :bolt:
:rofl
so true...his aim is uncanny :O
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Co alt, CO E, the 51 will eliminate the Dora before he ever gets to use those advantages. The only hope the D9 has is to run and come back higher. In that regard the D9 can control the fight simply due to its speed in level flight. If you are talking about a straight up stall fight, the mustang has a clear advantage. The thrust advantage of the D9 is sizable but only a mustang pilot who blows his initial 2-3 chances for a kill would end up being victimized by it. I suppose in the long run if there was no such thing as guns, the D9 might be able to climb its way on top of the fight and eventually get behind the 51.
Given that currently even among experienced 51 drivers. There are but a handful of pony drivers who really know how to work the pony in the MA. D-9 wins.
One of the tricks I like to use against ponies is lure them into a circle jerk turnfight on the deck. Then when they start to gain on me a bit. Level out for a second, then do a high Yo yo. Your typical pony driver thinking that if they pull just a bit harder on the stick can catch me will now have blown too much E in the maneuver to follow me up and either stalls out or has to turn away and start running.
The pony is one of the planes that concern me the least in the MA regardless of circumstance. The F4 variants and a well driven 38 the most
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I like a lot of the historical matchups in scenarios. When you have historical match ups under somewhat realistic conditions, the fights can have a very different character than what folks are used to.
Here are match ups that I think are quite even and very fun, where the aircraft have different advantages and disadvantages that play off in interesting ways.
P-40's vs. Zeros
F4F's vs. Zeros
Spit I's and Hurri I's vs. 109E's
Spit V's vs. 109F's
Spit IX's and Typhoons vs. 190A5's and 109G-6's
Mix of P-51's, P-38's, and P-47's vs. mix of 109G's, 109K's, and 190D-9's