Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: 100Coogn on September 02, 2012, 02:03:49 PM
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Vehicle is a 1972 Ford pick up. F-150 I believe.
Engine 300 straight six.
Transmission 4 speed manual. (hydraulic)
Problem is at 40 mph you can feel a shimmy and stick shakes around terribly. U-Joints have already been changed. What's odd is that it will do it while the truck is at a stop and in neutral. Everything is smooth while the clutch is pushed in, but as soon as the clutch is released the gear shift begins shaking. That is while it's in neutral.
The motor & transmission are not the original.
The motor is an 80's model and the transmission is a 90's.
Lol, sounds like a Johnny Cash song.
Sorry about the sketchy details of the truck. I won't know the exact specs on things, until I see it.
Thanks for any help.
Coogan
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the truck is 40 years old that may be one of the problems other than that thats all i can tell you sorry :salute
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Probably motor/transmission mounts.
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Probably motor/transmission mounts.
yep, sounds like bad mounts
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I'm leaning towards throw out bearing, or warped fly wheel.
Coogan :headscratch:
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Mounts are shot.
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Had one similar experience when making an engine change over from 6cyl to 8cyl in a customers Mustang about 25 years ago. Some Ford engines are internally balanced, and some externally. Note, this is not unique to Ford, just saying.. The problem arises when the bolt pattern is the same making it possible to bolt the wrong flywheel on. It's possible you may have a situation like this. Here is a link to a site which may be helpful in enabling to make that determination.
http://www.rowand.net/shop/tech/fordflywheeslandflexplates.htm (http://www.rowand.net/shop/tech/fordflywheeslandflexplates.htm)
Hope you find this useful :cheers:
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Thanks TomD for your response. Pretty good link there. Appreciate your time looking that up.
Coogan
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Vehicle is a 1972 Ford pick up. F-150 I believe.
Engine 300 straight six.
Transmission 4 speed manual. (hydraulic)
Problem is at 40 mph you can feel a shimmy and stick shakes around terribly. U-Joints have already been changed. What's odd is that it will do it while the truck is at a stop and in neutral. Everything is smooth while the clutch is pushed in, but as soon as the clutch is released the gear shift begins shaking. That is while it's in neutral.
The motor & transmission are not the original.
The motor is an 80's model and the transmission is a 90's.
Lol, sounds like a Johnny Cash song.
Sorry about the sketchy details of the truck. I won't know the exact specs on things, until I see it.
Thanks for any help.
Coogan
if the transmission is from a 90's ford, it's got a hydraulic clutch release bearing, and a top mount internal linkage shifter.
it almost sounds like something's out of balance, or coming loose. by what you describe, i think the very first thing i'd check would be bellhousing bolts.
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Thanks TomD for your response. Pretty good link there. Appreciate your time looking that up.
Coogan
Any time Coogan. Good luck sir.
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cc: Will check bell housing bolts and all the mounts. Thanks again. Just was curious as to what I'm getting myself into.
Coogan :salute
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I'm leaning towards throw out bearing, or warped fly wheel.
Coogan :headscratch:
This would be what I'd suspect first as well! You could have a worn input shaft if the trowout bering is real bad but I'd think you could hear that. Also as Cap said it has a hydraulic clutch release and they are known to fail so a small leak could also be part of the problem.
I also would inspect both tranny and motor mounts,all you need is a good pry bar to check those!
:salute
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the truck is 40 years old that may be one of the problems other than that thats all i can tell you sorry :salute
:rofl aren't you 15?
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Interesting.. While in Neutral, let the clutch out, the whole Trans and engine start shaking, or JUST the shifter stick???
Remember the 300/6 is an externally balanced engine.. Requires a specific flywheel, balanced for the engine, and Pressure plate as well.. Although many Fords have the same Crank Flange pattern, so the wrong Flywheel will bolt in place easily.. And that will cause this problem.. But it should be shaking ALL the time if that was the cause..
If it is just the stick, then it might be bent shaft in the transmission..
Hmmmm???
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Interesting.. While in Neutral, let the clutch out, the whole Trans and engine start shaking, or JUST the shifter stick???
i think you're the only other one that noted that it happens in neutral. that's what makes me lean towards bell bolts, loose/missing pressure plate bolt or srping, or possibly a fialed throughtout bearing. if it were anything at all to do with engine balance, it would be all the time. there could be internal transmission problems too, now that i think of it....those wouldn't be evident unless the tranny was being spun, which would happen any time that the clutch pedal is released....even in neutral.
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i think you're the only other one that noted that it happens in neutral. that's what makes me lean towards bell bolts, loose/missing pressure plate bolt or srping, or possibly a fialed throughtout bearing. if it were anything at all to do with engine balance, it would be all the time. there could be internal transmission problems too, now that i think of it....those wouldn't be evident unless the tranny was being spun, which would happen any time that the clutch pedal is released....even in neutral.
Yep, that is my thinking..
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Interesting.. While in Neutral, let the clutch out, the whole Trans and engine start shaking, or JUST the shifter stick???
Remember the 300/6 is an externally balanced engine.. Requires a specific flywheel, balanced for the engine, and Pressure plate as well.. Although many Fords have the same Crank Flange pattern, so the wrong Flywheel will bolt in place easily.. And that will cause this problem.. But it should be shaking ALL the time if that was the cause..
If it is just the stick, then it might be bent shaft in the transmission..
Hmmmm???
Just the shifter is shaking upon letting out the clutch. The engine runs real good. I agree, a 300/6 is very true engine.
The fact that it's doing in neutral is bugging me.
Coogan
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Just the shifter is shaking upon letting out the clutch. The engine runs real good. I agree, a 300/6 is very true engine.
The fact that it's doing in neutral is bugging me.
Coogan
Yeah, 300/6 is a great motor for trucks a 4WD.. Gear driven and Solid Lifter, like it belongs in a Farm tractor..
Oh, wait a sec, IT DID COME IN A FARM TRACTOR, LOL!
CAP and TomD caught it before I did.. I'm thinking a bent output shaft in the Trans..
You are sure the drive shaft is solid, and still in balance??? Two piece driveshaft??? correctly phased too right???
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Wait a sec, after more thought, not the output shaft..
It only turns while the Rig is moving.. Would have no
effect in neutral, sitting still..
That leaves the Synchro, Reverse gear shaft, or the Input..
Bad input shaft bearing might do this too..
Guess it depends on how bad the wobble is..
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Wait a sec, after more thought, not the output shaft..
It only turns while the Rig is moving.. Would have no
effect in neutral, sitting still..
That leaves the Synchro, Reverse gear shaft, or the Input..
Bad input shaft bearing might do this too..
Guess it depends on how bad the wobble is..
this is my thinking. 90's tranny is going to be internally shifted through a top mount shifter. any excessive play inside the tranny will cause this.
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Did the vibration start after a clutch or trans replacement? I've seen where the wrong pilot bearing size was installed into the crankshaft (or was not installed, damaged ect.). That will cause the input shaft to wobble and it can do damage internally to the Transmission bearings, gears, or synchros. Generally you will develope a front seal leak on the trans also.
If there is an inspection plate than you can inspect the clutch and input shaft. Engine Off!
If you suspect internal trans damage drain the fluid and check for heavy metalic contamination.
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The gentleman, that owns the truck, says everything was good until about a month ago.
It was then he noticed a very light vibration while driving. It has since developed into a severe vibration.
I've advised him not to drive it anymore.
Coogan
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Just the shifter is shaking upon letting out the clutch. The engine runs real good. I agree, a 300/6 is very true engine.
The fact that it's doing in neutral is bugging me.
Coogan
EDIT: Enjoy.
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Did the vibration start after a clutch or trans replacement? I've seen where the wrong pilot bearing size was installed into the crankshaft (or was not installed, damaged ect.). That will cause the input shaft to wobble and it can do damage internally to the Transmission bearings, gears, or synchros. Generally you will develope a front seal leak on the trans also.
If there is an inspection plate than you can inspect the clutch and input shaft. Engine Off!
If you suspect internal trans damage drain the fluid and check for heavy metalic contamination.
excellent!! i hadn't thought of pilot bearing. good thought.
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never could figur out why they call a bushing a bearing :lol
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:rofl aren't you 15?
Probably younger than that. :frown:
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never could figur out why they call a bushing a bearing :lol
because in some instances it is. look it up before posting a response to this. :aok
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because in some instances it is. look it up before posting a response to this. :aok
Really cap ? a bearing consists of 2 races and several Ball/rollers
A bushing is marely a liner,it has no friction reducing characteristics
The job of a pilot "bearing" is to keep the input shaft/flywheel alligned
And BTW, i dont need to " Look it up ", i been in this field for 25 + years,there is alot of things that are missnamed in the auto field :rolleyes:
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Really cap ? a bearing consists of 2 races and several Ball/rollers
A bushing is marely a liner,it has no friction reducing characteristics
The job of a pilot "bearing" is to keep the input shaft/flywheel alligned
And BTW, i dont need to " Look it up ", i been in this field for 25 + years,there is alot of things that are missnamed in the auto field :rolleyes:
i know you've been in it for awhile. that's why i tried to remind you to look before you posted.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8305/7925594146_f87aac729d.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7925594146/)
pilot bearing (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70148615@N03/7925594146/) by 1LtCap (http://www.flickr.com/people/70148615@N03/), on Flickr
some of those 6 banger fords had pilot bearings, rather than pilot bushings. too many people feel that there is no need to replace them when things are opened up. then bad things happen.
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lol your missing my point cap, people still think the bronze one is a bearing too,i wasent trying to be harsh towards you.
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A "bushing" is a plain bearing.
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A "bushing" is a plain bearing.
Crank "Bearings" have no rollers. :lol Does your truck have a Motor or Engine? :rofl
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Clutch pilot Bearing or Bushing, I use the term interchangeably until I have it in my hand..
I know the difference, you know the difference, so does everyone else.. :cheers:
So what difference does the terminology make??? :x
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lol your missing my point cap, people still think the bronze one is a bearing too,i wasent trying to be harsh towards you.
you're right i missed it, lolol. at least there's a picture there showing those that don't know the difference now. :noid :D
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(http://www.martymagic.com/product_images/j/554/Teddy_Bear_Ring__48586_zoom.jpg)
You mean not this?? :confused:
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Crank "Bearings" have no rollers. :lol Does your truck have a Motor or Engine? :rofl
This plane has a roller bearing crankshaft.
(http://world-war-2-planes.webs.com/images/bf109.jpg)
This plane has a roller bearing crankshaft.
(http://www.incredible-adventures.com/warbirds/warbirds04.jpg)
This car had a roller bearing crankshaft.
(http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/porsche_100324088_m.jpg)
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This plane has a roller bearing crankshaft.
(http://world-war-2-planes.webs.com/images/bf109.jpg)
This plane has a roller bearing crankshaft.
(http://www.incredible-adventures.com/warbirds/warbirds04.jpg)
This car had a roller bearing crankshaft.
(http://images.thecarconnection.com/med/porsche_100324088_m.jpg)
Are ya sure about the 109?? Roller bearings require a pressed crankshaft, my memory is saying the DB had a one piece unit..
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(http://www.martymagic.com/product_images/j/554/Teddy_Bear_Ring__48586_zoom.jpg)
You mean not this?? :confused:
:rofl
Bear-ring
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:rofl Shuffler wins !! :ahand
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(http://www.martymagic.com/product_images/j/554/Teddy_Bear_Ring__48586_zoom.jpg)
You mean not this?? :confused:
OK....NOW THAT'S FUNNY. :rofl