Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: bangsbox on September 05, 2012, 01:20:56 AM
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did b-17 have armored glass or armor for tail gunner. if not i think they dont die easily enough with a burst from 6 oclock and other bursts into tail area. Did b-17s and other bombers have any protection for gunners or were they strong structured thin skinned aircraft where its easier to kill/wound everyone then shoot it out of the sky. it looks like in many of the germen gun cam vids that everyone most have been hit or killed and the bomber just lumbers on.
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Google is your friend, http://www.airpages.ru/eng/mn/b17_06.shtml
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No it's not when compares to some of the primary source stuff people have on this forum. It can get you yelled at for lack of research lol.
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No it's not when compares to some of the primary source stuff people have on this forum. It can get you yelled at for lack of research lol.
Asking people to answer your questions without trying to find out is still bad form. Try to find the answer and if you cannot then ask the question, but reference what you found so that we don't duplicate your efforts.
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No it's not when compares to some of the primary source stuff people have on this forum. It can get you yelled at for lack of research lol.
The link had a nice graphic of the placement of the armour (seeing you are incapable of doing your own research). Where do you think those people got those primary docs from? Many time from using Google. :x
The manuals are available on line for the B-17. Use Google and maybe you will find them. :neener:
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(http://www.airpages.ru/eng/mn/b17_43.jpg)
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Why's everyone jumping on bangsbox? He posted a question about an aircraft in the 'Aircraft/Vehicle' forum. Isn't that what it's for?
Perhaps the OP thought he may get a better answer here, than he would using google.
Instead he gets flamed.
Wow!
Coogan
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Why's everyone jumping on bangsbox? He posted a question about an aircraft in the 'Aircraft/Vehicle' forum. Isn't that what it's for?
Perhaps the OP thought he may get a better answer here, than he would using google.
Instead he gets flamed.
Wow!
Coogan
Because he apparently doesn't understand how to use Google. For example I typed in "B17 Tail Gunner Armor" and third page came up with this "Armored B-17 tail gunner's window"
http://forum.armyairforces.com/Armored-B17-tail-gunner39s-window-m164696.aspx (http://forum.armyairforces.com/Armored-B17-tail-gunner39s-window-m164696.aspx)
Maybe I should start a thread asking if the Me-262 is a Jet.
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Because he apparently doesn't understand how to use Google. For example I typed in "B17 Tail Gunner Armor" and third page came up with this "Armored B-17 tail gunner's window"
http://forum.armyairforces.com/Armored-B17-tail-gunner39s-window-m164696.aspx (http://forum.armyairforces.com/Armored-B17-tail-gunner39s-window-m164696.aspx)
Maybe I should start a thread asking if the Me-262 is a Jet.
It is. See how easy it is to get a straight answer using the forums?
Maybe you should reread the OP. He is clearly asking about RL B-17's armor, compared to what we have in AHII.
This would appear the place to ask that question. Why did it rub you the wrong way?
Coogan
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Why's everyone jumping on bangsbox?
Because he preemptively attacked everybody else and used it as an excuse not to try to answer his own question.
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Because he preemptively attacked everybody else and used it as an excuse not to try to answer his own question.
How is a google search going to compare RL B-17's with what we have in game. :rolleyes:
bangsbox had a legitimate question and some folks have no better response, but to go do a google search.
What a community. If that's all the advise you guys had to offer, why even respond?
Coogan
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How is a google search going to compare RL B-17's with what we have in game. :rolleyes:
bangsbox had a legitimate question and some folks have no better response, but to go do a google search.
What a community. If that's all the advise you guys had to offer, why even respond?
Coogan
If he'd read the google results, it says the armored glass withstands 7.9mm bullets, but most likely nothing higher... Question is does that glass (tail section of the B17) withstand all 7.9s completely or just the glass?
One way to test that theory is him asking a squaddie to go in a customs arena with a German 109 and fire off few rounds at the tail gunner with 7.9s, then he'd have his answer.
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How is a google search going to compare RL B-17's with what we have in game. :rolleyes:
bangsbox had a legitimate question and some folks have no better response, but to go do a google search.
What a community. If that's all the advise you guys had to offer, why even respond?
Coogan
When one wants to ask a question why poison the well by attacking the people you are asking first?
Honestly, if he had just asked "Does the B-17's tail gunner have armor?" he'd have gotten answers without any fuss. Instead he complained about primary sources, threw his hands up saying google is useless and let us know he had done so.
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Your funny Karnak.
If someone says something on the boards and can't come up with a primary source you agree with you flame them.
shdo
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Your funny Karnak.
If someone says something on the boards and can't come up with a primary source you agree with you flame them.
shdo
No it's not when compares to some of the primary source stuff people have on this forum. It can get you yelled at for lack of research lol. (http://No it's not when compares to some of the primary source stuff people have on this forum. It can get you yelled at for lack of research lol.)
If he'd bother to read the website then asked if it was correct, then i'd probably just post this to confirm its correct
(http://www.367thdynamitegang.com/upload/butch/reargun.jpg)
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Your funny Karnak.
If someone says something on the boards and can't come up with a primary source you agree with you flame them.
shdo
If you are saying what it looks like you're struggling to say, well, no, I don't.
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Because he apparently doesn't understand how to use Google. For example I typed in "B17 Tail Gunner Armor" and third page came up with this "Armored B-17 tail gunner's window"
http://forum.armyairforces.com/Armored-B17-tail-gunner39s-window-m164696.aspx (http://forum.armyairforces.com/Armored-B17-tail-gunner39s-window-m164696.aspx)
Maybe I should start a thread asking if the Me-262 is a Jet.
now butcher that's just not nice. I know some of u SOBs have primary source and google doesn't.
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now butcher that's just not nice. I know some of u SOBs have primary source and google doesn't.
Really is no such thing as a primary source.. Problem with the internet is people list whatever information they have, without giving credit - often stealing it from other place which can lead to false information. "Hey this guy says B-17s flew at 400mph, lets use that!"
Before I got all my books, this is how I did it: You look at 3-4 websites/sources then best judge what looks to be honest the best answer. If 2 give the same answer, and 2 are completely OFF - you can take the two and ask here.
If you ever need I can always shoot you some books, most are free on the internet, you just gotta do some browsing for PDF files.
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third page
Well theres your problem. If it aint on the first page it dont exist!
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Well theres your problem. If it aint on the first page it dont exist!
hahahaha!@ I feel the same way, has anyone ever really looked beyond 5 pages in google? Do you fall off the internet if you do?
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I almost never go past page 2 on google *shrugs*
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hahahaha!@ I feel the same way, has anyone ever really looked beyond 5 pages in google? Do you fall off the internet if you do?
I actually did once for a very obscure topic. I went to page 10 for a research paper once. No, I didnt find anything. Turned out my topic was so obscure (for Americans) that unless I could read German/Italian/French/Eastern European Languages I was screwed from the beginning.
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http://01f15b4.netsolhost.com/b17_turret.htm (all the way down)
http://www.ultimatesacrifice.com/restoration_2.htm (most of the way down)
http://www.letecka-historie.cz/Slipstream-today_english.html (This is probably the best link)
http://www.nikonians.org/dcfp/user_files/141997.jpg (This looks like a restoration and the armor plate does not seem as consistent to the other pictures I found).
It appears that the B17 had a "T" shaped plate of steel armor 8mm thick that shields the gunner mostly from direct 6 attacks only. 8mm is not a whole lot, probably about the thickness of a cigarette I am guessing. Further The armor again appears essentially as just a simple set of plates made from steel, (what type, I do not know), but that is not very much. That would deflect against shrapnel, and rifle caliber but I don't think it would provide a whole lot of protection against much else.
From the pictures there is no protection from any off angle shot to speak of.
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Asking people to answer your questions without trying to find out is still bad form. Try to find the answer and if you cannot then ask the question, but reference what you found so that we don't duplicate your efforts.
I do not necessarily believe this. No one has to answer the OP if they wish not to, but alot of people may readily have information that they would want to share to help out the AH community. Sometimes I will ask a question because I want it answered by an AH member, not because I can not find an answer in google, but because I am more confident of the answer from my peers.
I agree with you if the OP asked something along the lines of "I think B17s should have more armor because I just got shot down and it isn't fair" type of question.
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I do not necessarily believe this. No one has to answer the OP if they wish not to, but alot of people may readily have information that they would want to share to help out the AH community. Sometimes I will ask a question because I want it answered by an AH member, not because I can not find an answer in google, but because I am more confident of the answer from my peers.
I agree with you if the OP asked something along the lines of "I think B17s should have more armor because I just got shot down and it isn't fair" type of question.
:aok
my line of thinking
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If everyone just googled everything and was done with it, we wouldn't have some of the great conversations here on the forum... and sometimes, that's what someone is going for to begin with.
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Wow........You guys sound like a bunch of women!!!!!!!!
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did b-17 have armored glass or armor for tail gunner.
Armored glass that would stop a 30mm cannon round?!?! :lol even if it did exist then or now, think how much that would weigh :eek:!
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What could the b17s armor stop? .303 , 12.5, 20mm 30mm?
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What could the b17s armor stop? .303 , 12.5, 20mm 30mm?
What did you find using Google? :)
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All I could find was 20 20mm hits or 3 30mm would bring down a b17. Nothing on what armor was meant to stop