Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: pembquist on September 07, 2012, 12:31:21 PM
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The subject is gun camera footage. I used to think nothing looking at gun camera footage, I identified completely with the camera side. Lately not so much. I was looking at footage of a b-17 getting hosed down from its six and all I could think about was the gory chaos inside, the rounds traversing the length of the aircraft with nowhere to escape them. The ball turrets guns look slumped and vacant eyed, the last line of "the death of the ball turret gunner" runs through my mind. I see a dead and mangled crew and the ripples of tragedy and loss sent on their way to crash ashore upon some mother or lover or friend. I see them in their instants of being torn apart and think of how young they are and what they will never get to see. When I see a fighter going down I imagine the pilots rage and frustration and confusion while his plane disintegrates around him.
When the planes hit the twin towers it was similar, by then I was already 38 and I grew up in NYC so I had more of a connection to the images, they were probably more "real" to me than some one else less familiar. I don't remember thinking much in that way when looking at the OK City bombing.
Don't get me wrong I'm not obsessed with dark thoughts or anything I've just noticed a qualitative change in the way I respond to images of violence as I get older. I'm curious if anyone else has had this experience?
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I've watched many films of B-17's being attacked from their six. It's very sad to see the tail gunner stop firing. His guns may be out of ammo, perhaps they were damaged by the attack. Odds are, the gunner was hit.
:salute To all that have fallen in that position.
:salute To the ones who've survived such a violent part of our history.
Coogan
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Absolutely......
I use to be curiously facinated by things like that, disasters, natural or man made. Now it more saddness mixed with empathy for those involved. (not that when i was younger it didnt make me empathetic for those involved) but i definately notice a big change in how i look at things like that now.
To be honest, now i still look at it with some facination Id be lying if i said i didnt. The power of an earthquake, Tornado or Hurricane is an awesome sight to behold, and im sure this facination when i was younger pushed me into my profession today working around disasters, natural and or man made.
Im thinking the change has to do with facing your own mortality as you get older.
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When you are young you don't fear Death as it seems very far away. The closer you get to it the more those thoughts may enter. You take chances when you are young that you would not take as you get older.
:salute Salute to the young and fearless. Would 50 year old crews make it to target against such odds or RTB with engine trouble? :bolt:
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The subject is gun camera footage. I used to think nothing looking at gun camera footage, I identified completely with the camera side. Lately not so much. I was looking at footage of a b-17 getting hosed down from its six and all I could think about was the gory chaos inside, the rounds traversing the length of the aircraft with nowhere to escape them. The ball turrets guns look slumped and vacant eyed, the last line of "the death of the ball turret gunner" runs through my mind. I see a dead and mangled crew and the ripples of tragedy and loss sent on their way to crash ashore upon some mother or lover or friend. I see them in their instants of being torn apart and think of how young they are and what they will never get to see. When I see a fighter going down I imagine the pilots rage and frustration and confusion while his plane disintegrates around him.
When the planes hit the twin towers it was similar, by then I was already 38 and I grew up in NYC so I had more of a connection to the images, they were probably more "real" to me than some one else less familiar. I don't remember thinking much in that way when looking at the OK City bombing.
Don't get me wrong I'm not obsessed with dark thoughts or anything I've just noticed a qualitative change in the way I respond to images of violence as I get older. I'm curious if anyone else has had this experience?
Your no different than many others. One must look at the whole picture.
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I've watched many films of B-17's being attacked from their six. It's very sad to see the tail gunner stop firing. His guns may be out of ammo, perhaps they were damaged by the attack. Odds are, the gunner was hit.
:salute To all that have fallen in that position.
:salute To the ones who've survived such a violent part of our history.
Coogan
After reading up a little about the rear gunner position on the B-17 (for the other thread) there's absolutely no way to survive an attack from behind in a B-17 as a gunner, anything larger then 7.9s from any angle and the gunner is dead.
I've seen enough photos from WW2, I really honestly do not want to see another photo of a B-17 damaged....
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After reading up a little about the rear gunner position on the B-17 (for the other thread) there's absolutely no way to survive an attack from behind in a B-17 as a gunner, anything larger then 7.9s from any angle and the gunner is dead.
I've seen enough photos from WW2, I really honestly do not want to see another photo of a B-17 damaged....
Very true. Can't imagine what those fella's were going through.
I dare speculate, pure horror & hell.
Coogan
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Man ever since we had our daughter my thoughts have changed like that. When I watch something like that, I tend to think that that person may have had kids, a wife/husband, then I think of my daughter growing up with only one parent or something of that nature. I am not sure if I am the only person this happens to or what, but parenthood has changed the way I look at things.
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Not a sign of aging, but more a sign of maturity. When one realizes that every casualty in WWII be it Nazi, Imperialist Japanese, or Fascist Italian, had a mother, father, probably siblings, possibly a spouse and children of their own the corner has been turned. Even when we, as members of a western and free society observe the Japanese or SS soldier without hatred and contempt but rather someone bleeds just like we do, morns like we do, is proud of their country like we are, etc, then we have turned the corner and can move and understand that we are not that much different and can go on with learning how to prevent such travesties from happening again.
"As long as voices are heard and pencils move the guns stay silent"
Being able to watch combat films of WWII and think beyond which plane, or tank, or ship is firing or being fired at and instead think of the horror those men went through at that point in time simply means that your mind has matured to think much picture than the picture shows. :aok
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Well said loon, your last line hits the nail on the head i think :salute
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I read a stud in college similar to the phenomenon that you are describing. Was really interesting. It talked about how as we age as men our brain chemistry starts to change around 29 to 32 and this causes us to become more empathetic as you are describing. I am 32 now and am finding this to hold true for me. I find my taste for chaos and destruction, (that causes others harm) is nil compared to say when i was 18 to 25. Even just stupid things like watching fight videos don't hold the interest they used to when i was younger. The study went on to sight a bunch of good facts. One i remember that really stuck out to me is how much the recidivism rate for violent criminals drops after the age of 31.
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The subject is gun camera footage. I used to think nothing looking at gun camera footage, I identified completely with the camera side. Lately not so much. I was looking at footage of a b-17 getting hosed down from its six and all I could think about was the gory chaos inside, the rounds traversing the length of the aircraft with nowhere to escape them. The ball turrets guns look slumped and vacant eyed, the last line of "the death of the ball turret gunner" runs through my mind. I see a dead and mangled crew and the ripples of tragedy and loss sent on their way to crash ashore upon some mother or lover or friend. I see them in their instants of being torn apart and think of how young they are and what they will never get to see. When I see a fighter going down I imagine the pilots rage and frustration and confusion while his plane disintegrates around him.
When the planes hit the twin towers it was similar, by then I was already 38 and I grew up in NYC so I had more of a connection to the images, they were probably more "real" to me than some one else less familiar. I don't remember thinking much in that way when looking at the OK City bombing.
Don't get me wrong I'm not obsessed with dark thoughts or anything I've just noticed a qualitative change in the way I respond to images of violence as I get older. I'm curious if anyone else has had this experience?
i find myself more and more wondering how those kids did what they had to do.
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Those kids did what they did because it was a matter of survival,not just for themselves but thier mates also.
Special bunch the lot of em , then and now .
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No I wouldn't say it's a sign of aging, I have the same thoughts when seeing footage. Even though I have always recognized the cost, for me I can pin point when it really began to "hit home". My cousin lived with my GF and I for 2 1/2 years while he finished High School, he joined the Army right after graduation and did a 1 year tour in Afghanistan. My GF and I saw this news report just over 2 weeks before his unit was to be rotated home:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_cpHqCMBIc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_cpHqCMBIc)
His unit was on the mountain for 6 days, and was under a complete comms black out for most of the following week so we didn't actually hear from him until a few days before he shipped home. Terrifying (for us as well as for him) is about the best way to describe it, but that feels inadequate. Since then, watching guncam films or combat footage has taken on the same type of tone you describe. So I would say it seems to be more a sign of awareness than of aging.
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You really age when you see troops killed on TV news, and you know yours is in the area..
You age more when the phone rings, and it is a military chaplain..
You age more when you get a certified letter from the President that says "I am sorry for your loss"
You age more when you sit through the the funeral, hear the vollies fired..
You age even more when his last letter arrives, the day of the Funeral!
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I am very young.
I have seen some very VERY traumatizing things for my age short of military combat.
I agree that as a young man the images of both warfare and death don't have much of an effect, even the real thing seems almost detached from me. The death of another, or myself, has little effect. My mind stays focused on the situation and the situation alone, where it belongs.
Emotions of tragedy have this awful effect on me, by hitting me months later instead of immediately. I think its a natural reaction, but while I empathize with everyone in any situation, to actually take on those emotions is very difficult to impossible for me.
I think that the more time one has to think about these things, the worse it gets, as one gets older, the amount of heartbreak and tragedy one sees increases exponentially.
The older one gets, families, wives, children, are added to the mix. As a young man, I am not that much different from the soldiers in WW2 or indeed many of the veterans on this board when they first joined up. Idealistic, cocky, bulletproof with nothing or no one to loose. Horrors... I have plenty of time to forget about them... Pain... Young man, life is ahead of me, pain now is inconsequential... Death.... nothing I can do about it, and Its not gonna happen for a long time to me.
I think once you get old, you have more to think about and more to loose, and even at age 18, there are a few tragedies in my life where I sit alone in a dark seclusive mood and think "What if I had...."
If your 50, and have had gone through life's tough situations....
I can only shudder to think how many "What ifs" you have time to ask.