Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Jed on September 08, 2012, 11:16:04 PM
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Tired of dying at 18k and going straight to tower every time I get in the same sector as a cv.
It is beyond over the top, as I am sure many would agree. Detracts from game play. Nothing more frustrating for those of us who don't fly la-7s on the deck.
When I am in bombers, I never get touched. THey are more of a threat then a single JUG at 18K. I know this has been put up before. :O Three times today.... And that is my wish.... I am clicking my heels together
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Tired of dying at 18k and going straight to tower every time I get in the same sector as a cv.
It is beyond over the top, as I am sure many would agree. Detracts from game play. Nothing more frustrating for those of us who don't fly la-7s on the deck.
When I am in bombers, I never get touched. THey are more of a threat then a single JUG at 18K. I know this has been put up before. :O Three times today.... And that is my wish.... I am clicking my heels together
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WWII Had puffy ack - people died in puffy ack - stay away from puffy ack and problem solved
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Tired of dying at 18k and going straight to tower every time I get in the same sector as a cv.
It is beyond over the top, as I am sure many would agree. Detracts from game play. Nothing more frustrating for those of us who don't fly la-7s on the deck.
When I am in bombers, I never get touched. THey are more of a threat then a single JUG at 18K. I know this has been put up before. :O Three times today.... And that is my wish.... I am clicking my heels together
CV ack's chance to hit you is based off of your distance from the source, your speed, and your current maneuvering (I assume a g-load on the aircraft)
Your problem is that you are very much over exaggerating how it works. You do not die immediatly at 18K as soon as you get into the same sector of a CV. You don't! It just does not work that way. You also mention that Bombers do not get touched, and then suggest that ack is still more of a threat than a Jug at similar altitude. So Jug's now are even less a threat then the harmless ack assuming you are flying bombers. LA7s flying on the deck has nothing with your argument other than whining.
What you might want to consider...
Bombers have a fairly high tolerance to damage, whereas fighters do not. Ack is far more likely to catastrophically damage a fighter (meaning they crash) per "ping" than a bomber (of which you probably have three, remember)?
Ack is not avoidable once you are in range at all. Once you are in range, and over 3k alt it has a % probability to damage your aircraft. This chance can be lessened by the above I already described.
You can avoid ack (not manned mind you) by flying under 3k at any range, or staying out of its maximum range. Assuming that you have complete control of your aircraft, you have no reason to fly into it if you wish not to.
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Suck it up! :rofl
The number one duty of any fighter is to knock down the heavies. If a heavy is in the ack you go in too. Orders are orders! :devil
You just have to accept that in the course of any flight over water that there is a possibility of CV puffy ack. You go feet wet you accept the consequences.
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I expected these replies..... I should have saved my films to show you my instant death,. No oil, or pilot wounds. Straight to the tower.
I have heard the random ways they are calculated and I understand that there was flak in WWII. Flak didn't kill every fighter who came in range. Especially at 18k or higher. It is over modeled.
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It is over modeled.
I agree somewhat i see where your coming from but your talking about online right? there could be some manned flack too because online a have hit guys about 6.0k out (those were lucky shots BTW) But still i see where your coming from :salute
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I expected these replies..... I should have saved my films to show you my instant death,. No oil, or pilot wounds. Straight to the tower.
I have heard the random ways they are calculated and I understand that there was flak in WWII. Flak didn't kill every fighter who came in range. Especially at 18k or higher. It is over modeled.
Nor does it in the game. I very rarely get killed by puffy ack. Does it happen? yes now and then. Every time? No, not even close. I have spent more time fighting in ack than I care to think of, and more often than not it's the runner who doesn't make it out :devil
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Three times yesterday out of four trips near`a cv. Killed by automated ack. No message kills. All in a JUg flying high.
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I expected these replies..... I should have saved my films to show you my instant death,. No oil, or pilot wounds. Straight to the tower.
I have heard the random ways they are calculated and I understand that there was flak in WWII. Flak didn't kill every fighter who came in range. Especially at 18k or higher. It is over modeled.
You got those replies because you are purposely exaggerating your crybaby whine.
You do not get towered every time you are at 18k and get within a sector of of a CV. You don't.
Thats why you get these replies.
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You got those replies because you are purposely exaggerating your crybaby whine.
You do not get towered every time you are at 18k and get within a sector of of a CV. You don't.
Thats why you get these replies.
It's not exaggerated. He's playing a different game. :)
To the OP:
1) Fight over an enemy CV, expect it. Hell, ye be ASKING for it.
2) Just happen into an enemy cv? Bug out the way you came. Quite simple. If I'm in a fighter and run into an enemy cv I don't intend to hit with it, I just make a 180 and bugger off. So far 7/10 times I get clear WITHOUT taking a hit, and I just carry on my merry way.
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slightly exaggerated? Sure I'll give you that. But not anymore exaggerated then the random lethality of CV ack in the game. I suppose I am wasting my time posting this here. People are more then willing to jump on anything or anyone that insinuates that the game could use a little tweaking. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and think it's great. This is a wishlist thread right? I wish for more realistic ack... And for anyone to try and Fluff me over and tell me that this is as close to normal as it can get is in my opinion absurd. <S> :bolt:
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It isn't your wish, its your delivery thats the problem, and your clear lack of understand of how the current ack even works in the first place. How can you wish for something different if you do not know how what we have already works?
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See rule #4
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It isn't your wish, its your delivery thats the problem, and your clear lack of understand of how the current ack even works in the first place. How can you wish for something different if you do not know how what we have already works?
MK84 that is nonsense. I don't need to be a mechanic expert to wish for another car.
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slightly exaggerated? Sure I'll give you that. But not anymore exaggerated then the random lethality of CV ack in the game. I suppose I am wasting my time posting this here. People are more then willing to jump on anything or anyone that insinuates that the game could use a little tweaking. Don't get me wrong, I love the game and think it's great. This is a wishlist thread right? I wish for more realistic ack... And for anyone to try and Fluff me over and tell me that this is as close to normal as it can get is in my opinion absurd. <S> :bolt:
Very true. In reality the puffy ack would be ten times more concentrated and even more effective. Aces High has a decreased amount of ack and ships so that people with smaller systems can play too. And quite honestly friendly aircraft defending the fleet (and friendly boats too) were very often killed (shot in the case of the boats) by their own guns.
This is relatively infrequent in the game that you die to the first shot. If it happens twice in one month then you are not watching out for enemy boats which probably means you are good tumbleweed for the killing (weak SA).
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In a fighter, I get killed by puffy ack about 75% of the time I fly over a cv at 30,000 feet going 400mph.
I can't even see the ships that killed me.
Then I watch some chump take out our CV in lancasters at 6,000 feet and land undamaged.
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In a fighter, I get killed by puffy ack about 75% of the time I fly over a cv at 30,000 feet going 400mph.
I can't even see the ships that killed me.
Then I watch some chump take out our CV in lancasters at 6,000 feet and land undamaged.
Say the Lanc has 100 hit points in each area except engines which each have 25 hit points. Lets say your fighter has 25 hit points in each location. Lets say a flak hit does 35 points on average. To do damage that actually affects the Lancaster the flak has to hit the Lancaster three times in the same location (unlikely) , hit an engine (which the Lancaster can spare) or hit the pilot. On the other hand any flak hit does real damage to your fighter.
It isn't that bombers don't get hit, its that it doesn't usually matter to them when they do get hit.
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I have ears.....I can hear the hits..........or lack of hits.
I can fly a me110 over city strats at 30k and it will be killed 100% of the time if I fly straight and level.
I can loiter over city strats with an A20 forever at 10k.
The BF110 has a wing area of 414 Sq. feet while the A20 has a wing area of 465 Sq. feet yet the 110 suffers holes all over the wings from ack hits while I sometimes never get hit by an A20 flying the exact same mission profile.
What is aces high using as it's "sizing of the plane" to determine the ack box size?
Is it overall plane area?
Is it plane weight?
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I have to agree somewhat with op . My odds of getting hit in a maneuvering fighter seem higher to me . Than odds of being hit in straight level buffs at longer ranges . I am going to do a film study ad see if perception matches reality .
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I have ears.....I can hear the hits..........or lack of hits.
I can fly a me110 over city strats at 30k and it will be killed 100% of the time if I fly straight and level.
I get hit every time I fly a bomber over the city. My Mosquito B.Mk XVI took at least two hits from the flak last night.
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I have ears.....I can hear the hits..........or lack of hits.
I can fly a me110 over city strats at 30k and it will be killed 100% of the time if I fly straight and level.
I can loiter over city strats with an A20 forever at 10k.
The BF110 has a wing area of 414 Sq. feet while the A20 has a wing area of 465 Sq. feet yet the 110 suffers holes all over the wings from ack hits while I sometimes never get hit by an A20 flying the exact same mission profile.
What is aces high using as it's "sizing of the plane" to determine the ack box size?
Is it overall plane area?
Is it plane weight?
the answer has been give repeatedly over the years in the forums...i'll make it big and bold so it's not missed.
100% not true. Bomber vs fighter or size of plane has nothing to do with the size of the box.
The factors that make the box bigger or smaller are.
Gs
Distance
Speed.
HiTech
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I took 11 hits while chasing a 262 over his strats at over 500mph and 25k feet.
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Three times yesterday out of four trips near`a cv. Killed by automated ack. No message kills. All in a JUg flying high.
should have stayed away from water after the 2nd death.
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I wish for more realistic ack...
No, what you're realing wishing for is to have ack nerfed, not to have it more realistic. Fleet AAA in real life was far more lethal than what is represented in game.
ack-ack
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Puffy ack is not a problem for me.....
Its when I fly over a town in a mossie I ALWAYS die and go straight to the tower
Didn't happen till resently
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Jed, for past few years I've stated this more then once - REALISTIC ack would only make the ack 10x stronger in game.
Someone questioned me and I showed them the stats for a carrier battle group - for example CLAA's, battleships, Cruiser, Destroyers.
Put it this way - what we have in game is nothing near realistic, its for balancing (Game wise) - if it was realism - you'd have HUNDREDS of flak bursts around you, not 8-10 machine guns shooting at you, but Dozens and dozens.
Here's a photo just to give you an idea:
(http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/39/media-39564/large.jpg)
(http://immortalmuse.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/easternsolomonsenterpriseburning.jpg)
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for me at least, and I think other people .. the problem is getting killed by AI, instead of an actual player.
I've never in my life complained about getting hit by a gun dweeb. (i am one)
it is immensely annoying to be just cruising along and get popped. and bail, and nobody even gets the kill.
i'm all for less AI, I always thought make all the 5" guns mannable, but maybve slaving some of the AI 5" to the manned 5" might work as someone mentioned..
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Those puffy ack pics are all close, around carrier. Not at 20K.
I wonder why the Germans didn't take this CV ack and move it to protect their factories? If it was so effective in real life.
Up close I can see all that ack being devasting, but not at 20K in a fighter.
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Jed, for past few years I've stated this more then once - REALISTIC ack would only make the ack 10x stronger in game.
Someone questioned me and I showed them the stats for a carrier battle group - for example CLAA's, battleships, Cruiser, Destroyers.
Put it this way - what we have in game is nothing near realistic, its for balancing (Game wise) - if it was realism - you'd have HUNDREDS of flak bursts around you, not 8-10 machine guns shooting at you, but Dozens and dozens.
Here's a photo just to give you an idea:
(http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/39/media-39564/large.jpg)
(http://immortalmuse.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/easternsolomonsenterpriseburning.jpg)
Thats mighty pretty and all that, but how many times have you been hit by 88mm player controled flak? Make all the puffy player controled I bet they hit squat compared to the random number generator box model.
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Thats mighty pretty and all that, but how many times have you been hit by 88mm player controled flak? Make all the puffy player controled I bet they hit squat compared to the random number generator box model.
This. x10. Plus tax. There is something wrong with the number of instant fighter kills from puffy.
What the fuze does is simple. It detects the proximity, or nearness of a target and then detonates the main charge -- in most cases a shell. Before the proximity shell gunners had to guesstimate settings for a time fuze, a piece of clockwork or chemical train, so that shells would go off near their target. Since the five inch shell of the period had a lethal range of 70 yards, a region which a high speed shell would traverse in hundredths of a second, the guesstimate had to be correct to within this value. Not surprisingly the guesstimes were mostly wrong; and the Germans, who were the most methodical and precise of people, estimated it took over 3,300 88 mm shells to sucessfully shoot down a bomber flying straight and level over a city in Germany.
The USN did rather better. Using analog computers, which can be compared to an adjustable mechanical model which simulates a physical system, they could, by adjusting the settings so that the target aircraft's observed position coincided with the position predicted by the mechanical simulation, fire at wildly maneuvering targets like Kamikazes with much better precision than the Germans. But the fact that it took "only" a third of the number of 88s (it took 1,000 5"/38s to down a single suicider) was cold comfort. There wasn't time to fire that many shells at plunging aircraft. But the introduction of the proximity fuze meant a shell didn't have to hit directly, just pass near enough to damage an enemy plane, and that increased the lethality of gunnery once again, this time by a factor of five. It took 200 proximity fuzed 5"/38s to down a single Kamikaze.
But please, continue on with the Herp Derp on how many 88 gunners dropped shells into single engine fighter cockpits...
TONS of fighters were lost to anti-aircraft fire, the question is how many of them were lost to 20mm/37mm/40mm vs the really big stuff that goes boom.
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I wonder why the Germans didn't take this CV ack and move it to protect their factories?
Wut? :huh
If it was so effective in real life.
I'm sorry sir, but are you real? :confused:
Edit: :devil
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Delete for of topic
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This. x10. Plus tax. There is something wrong with the number of instant fighter kills from puffy.
But please, continue on with the Herp Derp on how many 88 gunners dropped shells into single engine fighter cockpits...
TONS of fighters were lost to anti-aircraft fire, the question is how many of them were lost to 20mm/37mm/40mm vs the really big stuff that goes boom.
If we were to give the 1 player 50 guns to fire at one time and the ability to set the size of a box where they fire, what do you think the outcome would be?
ANd yes you are 100% correct There is something wrong with the number of instant fighter kills from puffy.
. And that is the number they quote is inaccurate because people tend to not really notice the ack until they are hit. And then claim it was a first hit.
HiTech
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If we were to give the 1 player 50 guns to fire at one time and the ability to set the size of a box where they fire, what do you think the outcome would be?
ANd yes you are 100% correct . And that is the number they quote is inaccurate because people tend to not really notice the ack until they are hit. And then claim it was a first hit.
HiTech
Hmm....I wouldn't mind having command of 50 guns. :devil The outcome however, would be bad for gameplay. :)
Some folks are saying the ack isn't realistic. Maybe for one day, you should bump it up to the realism they are "wishing" for. :aok Just one day. :devil
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If we were to give the 1 player 50 guns to fire at one time and the ability to set the size of a box where they fire, what do you think the outcome would be?
How bout just 5 (large field), 3 (medium field), 2 (small field), 1 (GV), each on a field? All of them manually fused, like the 88mms. For the CVs auto fuse, give each player 2 or 3. Then remove AI puffy completely.
ANd yes you are 100% correct . And that is the number they quote is inaccurate because people tend to not really notice the ack until they are hit. And then claim it was a first hit.
Dogfighting someone and then accidentally popping the 3K magic line only to get pwned by puffy 1 second later isn't fun.
HiTech
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I'm not positive though I believe it has recently been remodeled. For a while there the very first indication a CV wasaround was a suddenly burst of oil on the windscreen. That happened many times and as likely as winning the lottery. They seem to have fixed that.
Boo
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TONS of fighters were lost to anti-aircraft fire, the question is how many of them were lost to 20mm/37mm/40mm vs the really big stuff that goes boom.
Quite a bit. Just ask any Allied pilot that had to attack German/Japanese airfields.
ack-ack
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I just got done by the ack from a fleet that I thought I was far enough away from. I reviewed the film, and this is what I saw from 3 different views. I thought it was one ping, so I logged, but the film shows more than that. Make of it what you will.
http://youtu.be/rx4nusTPVqw
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I feel your pain, but I've learned to live with it, I too have died instantly from puffy ack. I however would love to see it returned to the airfields, I’m sure puffy was used to protect real airfields during WWII. I also question that I can fly a group of bombers hand off, pulling no G’s directly to my drop point and not take any damage from puffy, but if I do it in a P38, fly hands off, not pulling any G’s the bird takes hits some fatal. That’s just not right. A group of bombers is taking up a lot more space , a lot more target area for the puffy to impact. But my one single fighter, half the size of just one bomber is being hit twice as often. Something appears to be wrong with that. Just saying, it’s based on my experience, over the last 11 years or so.
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If puffy ack batteries were reinstated at feilds, would it be like a stationairy CV?
1. - Would it be as dangerous to fighters as it is from CV's forcing most feild captures to become NOE hoards again?
2. - Would furballs become attackers from the next airfeild being limited to 3k under a 30,000 yard radius dome from the enemy airfeild? While defenders can climb to the moon over their feild befor moving out to furball?
3. - Would this mean the radar circle would also indicate the active puffy ack area?
Small caliber anitaircraft was the greatest danger to allied fighters. Not Heavy guns like our puffy ack. Heavy guns could not be brought to bare in a timely fashion to lead low flying fast small targets like allied fighters. Allied fighters were never designed to fly through a hail of small caliber ack and survive repeated hits as their primairy purpose. If anything in our game, Hitech is being kind to us with the unusual limited numbers of small caliber ack positions by WW2 standards protecting such important objects to winning the war.
This is discussed in the following document from the 8th Air Force after WW2.
Light, intense and accurate: U.S. Eighth A.F. strategic fighters versus German flak in the ETO.
http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/utils/getfile/collection/p4013coll8/id/2806/filename/2786.PDF
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First rule of puffy ack is: don't fly into puffy ack