Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Eric19 on September 09, 2012, 01:19:32 PM

Title: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Eric19 on September 09, 2012, 01:19:32 PM
let see where to begin........................ ........hhmmm ah here...............wel it was the predicessor to the Lancaster............its 2 engined ummm 10,000lb bomb load...... well heres the stats from wiki I think it would be cool to have an avro manchester in our planeset it would fill some gaps for our early war setup

Crew: 7
 Length: 70 ft (21.34 m)
 Wingspan: 90 ft 1 in (27.46 m)
 Height: 19 ft 6 in (5.94 m)
 Wing area: 1,131 ft² (105.1 m²)
 Empty weight: 31,200 lb (14,152 kg)
 Max. takeoff weight: 50,000 lb (22,680 kg)
 Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Vulture I 24-cylinder X-type, 1,760 hp (1,310 kW) each
 
Performance
 Maximum speed: 265 mph (230 kn, 402 km/h) at 17,000 ft (5,180 m)
 Range: 1,200 miles (1,930 km) with maximum bomb load of 10,350 lb (4,695 kg)
 Service ceiling: 19,500 ft (5,852 m)
 
Armament

 Guns: 8 × 0.303 in (7.7 mm) Browning machine guns, (in Nash & Thomson nose (2), dorsal (2) and tail (4) turrets)
 Bombs: 10,350 lb (4,695 kg) bomb load
flame on........................... .... :D
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Tracerfi on September 09, 2012, 01:20:33 PM
INTERESTING
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Karnak on September 09, 2012, 01:21:31 PM
The Manchester had a very brief service life and was rapidly withdrawn from service.  There were also not many built, particularly when compared to the 11,000 Wellingtons built.

The main advantage the Manchester would have in adding it to AH is that it would reuse some of the artwork from the Lancaster.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Eric19 on September 09, 2012, 01:29:48 PM
The Manchester had a very brief service life and was rapidly withdrawn from service.  There were also not many built, particularly when compared to the 11,000 Wellingtons built.

The main advantage the Manchester would have in adding it to AH is that it would reuse some of the artwork from the Lancaster.
the 152 ain't much better with the numbers or service life so that is kinda irrelvent as hitech once said "the only requirment for a plane to be added to AH is if it saw service"
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Greebo on September 09, 2012, 01:37:22 PM
Karnak is not arguing that the Manchester breaks HTC's rules for inclusion in the game. He is just saying it does not deserve to be included any time soon based on its war record compared to planes like the Wellington which was built in vastly greater numbers and saw service in every theater Britain fought in.

However as most RAF bombing was done at night I'd say an early war Soviet Pe-2, German He 111 or Italian SM 79 bomber would be more useful than a Wellington from a scenario standpoint.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Pigslilspaz on September 09, 2012, 01:37:39 PM
the 152 ain't much better with the numbers or service life so that is kinda irrelvent as hitech once said "the only requirment for a plane to be added to AH is if it saw service"

Not true, it has to also be in squadron strength, saw combat (reason why P-63 has been under debate for inclusion), and cannot be field modded
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Karnak on September 09, 2012, 01:44:32 PM
Manchester is clearly eligible for inclusion. I just don't think it is a good choice.  From my perspective the only thing it has going for it is reusing a lot of the Lancaster's art.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: MAINER on September 09, 2012, 04:31:22 PM
The engines on that thing were part of the reason for its short service life, the X configuration engine was very unreliable.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Karnak on September 09, 2012, 05:13:25 PM
The engines on that thing were part of the reason for its short service life, the X configuration engine was very unreliable.
And never produced the promised power.  They had to be derated in order to have enough reliability to be used at all and even then they were horribly unreliable.

Manchester and He177.  Two peas in a pod.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Butcher on September 09, 2012, 06:08:22 PM
Manchester is clearly eligible for inclusion. I just don't think it is a good choice.  From my perspective the only thing it has going for it is reusing a lot of the Lancaster's art.

+1

I agree with Karnak again on this (cringes). Wellington, He-111, SM-79 had far more impact, and fought in quite a few more theaters then the Manchester.

From a Scenario perspective that is, the Manchester would be used quite limited, limited to 1941-42 European theater, which is a very small window for scenarios and snapshots.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: SmokinLoon on September 10, 2012, 08:56:30 AM
I'm all for adding it, after HTC adds the He111, Wellington, Tu-2, and about 4 other bombers and about 6 re-models of current in game bombers (Lancs, B26's, B24's, etc)   :D
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Eric19 on September 10, 2012, 08:51:33 PM
(http://manchester.jpg)
sexy aircraft if I do say so my self lol
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Hap on September 10, 2012, 10:00:33 PM
Wasn't the Manchester Britain's mainstay until the Lanc?  And if it were, why all the talk?
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: FTJR on September 10, 2012, 10:10:34 PM
Wasn't the Manchester Britain's mainstay until the Lanc?  And if it were, why all the talk?

I believe the Stirling was the mainstay, stand to be corrected though
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Wildcat1 on September 10, 2012, 10:40:34 PM
I would love to see the Bristol Blenheim added before any other British bomber.

From a special events perspective, the only suitable substitute I can think of for the Bristol is the G4M, which isn't fun for those guys, especially if the opposition is in 109Fs. Ju-88 is too fast, B-25 too robust, obviously can't used lancs.

But that's my thread hijack... :bolt:
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Wmaker on September 10, 2012, 10:48:30 PM
6 re-models of current in game bombers (Lancs, B26's, B24's, etc)   :D

B-24, while one of the earliest AH2 models, is already done in AHII standard.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Fish42 on September 11, 2012, 03:07:56 AM
I believe the Stirling was the mainstay, stand to be corrected though

I thought the Vickers Wellington was the backbone of Bomber Command up until about late 42.

From wiki I know, but...
Quote
participated in the first night raid on Berlin on 25 August 1940. In the first 1,000-aircraft raid on Cologne, on 30 May 1942, 599 out of 1,046 aircraft were Wellingtons (101 of them were flown by Polish aircrew).
 
With Bomber Command, Wellingtons flew 47,409 operations, dropped 41,823 tons (37,941 tonnes) of bombs and lost 1,332 aircraft in action.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: MiloMorai on September 11, 2012, 07:24:06 AM
Bomber Command Operational Statistics

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/bc_stats.htm

FTJR, your Wellington numbers agree with those in the above link.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Butcher on September 11, 2012, 08:42:24 AM
Wellington was the main bomber in Burma, I think the normal loadout was 8x 500lbs.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: FTJR on September 11, 2012, 10:12:52 AM
Thanks for the link MiloMorai, this has all the types

http://www.lancaster-archive.com/bc_stats5.htm
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: Karnak on September 11, 2012, 11:55:08 AM
Yes, Wellington was the backbone until supplanted by the Lancaster.  The Sterling was expected to be the backbone, but that didn't work out due to deficiencies of the Sterling.

By a very large margin the Wellington is the most needed British bomber waiting to be added.
Title: Re: Avro Manchester...............
Post by: SmokinLoon on September 11, 2012, 04:42:45 PM
Wellington was the main bomber in Burma, I think the normal loadout was 8x 500lbs.

Many many many missions were done using 250 lb bombs.  Weight and range were huge factors in the PTO.  Just for comparisons sake: my grandfather's B24D never saw 1000lb bombs.  According to his logs they were split between most 250 and 500 lb bombs, with a couple of missions using 100lb bombs.  Seems if he was ship hunting there were 250lb bombs and if they were bombing Japanese positions (mostly airfields) they used 500lb bombs.  The 2000ft bombing alt mission they used the 100lb bombs on a Japanese airfield.  I should really scan in his records and share this stuff, his logs and notes are amazing to read.