Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mthrockmor on September 21, 2012, 08:43:06 AM
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A question to the more informed. I have been reading up on WW2 aircraft and came across info on the -A9 model. The next production model was the -D9. The -A9 seems to be the ultimate of the "A" versions, slightly larger wing for better maneuverability and a 2,000hp engine. It had the same gun package as the -D9, retained the aircooled engine of the A series.
I know everyone has their own short list of new birds to add to AH. Is the -A9 enough of an improvement over the -A8 to merit adding it to the list?
From what I have read I say yes. If for nothing else enhanced maneuverability, faster and with the radial engine you won't get the golden BB shot on the radiator you do at every turn with the Dora. It seems to be almost a Dora but far more survivable.
Thoughts and corrections?
Boo
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let my quote Wiki to save some typing.
A-9
The Fw 190 A-9 was the last A-model produced, and was first built in September 1944. The A-9 was fitted with the new BMW 801S, called the 801 TS or 801 TH when shipped as a more complete Triebwerksanlage version of the Kraftei or "power egg" concept, unitized engine installation (an aircraft engine installation format embraced by the Luftwaffe for a number of engine types on operational aircraft, in part for easy field replacement) rated at 2,000 PS (1,973 hp, 1,471 kW); the more powerful 2,400 PS (2,367 hp, 1,765 kW) BMW 801F-1 was still under development, and not yet available. The armour on the front annular cowling, which also incorporated the oil tank, was upgraded from the 6 mm (.24 in) on earlier models to 10 mm (.39 in). The 12-blade cooling fan was initially changed to a 14-blade fan, but it consumed more power to operate and did not really improve cooling; thus BMW reverted to the 12-blade fan. The A-9 cowling was slightly longer than that of the A-8 due to a larger annular radiator for the oil system. The bubble canopy design with the larger head armour was fitted as standard. Three types of propeller were authorised for use on the A-9: the VDM 9-112176A wooden propeller, 3.5 m (11 ft 6 in) in diameter, was the preferred option, however, many A-9s were fitted with the standard VDM 9-12067A metal propeller and some had a VDM 9-12153A metal propeller with external, bolt on balance weights.[40] The A-9 was also designed originally as an assault aircraft, so the wing leading edges were to have been armoured; however, this did not make it past the design stage in order to save weight. The A-9 was very similar to the A-8 in regards to the armament and Rüstsätze kits. A total of 910 A-9s were built between April 1944 and May 1945, mostly in Focke Wulf's Cottbus factory.[41]
A late-war attempt was made with the Fw 190 A-10, which was to have begun arriving in pilots' hands by March 1945 and was to be fitted with larger wings for better maneuverability at higher altitudes, which, due to internal space, could have allowed additional 30 mm (1.18 in) calibre, long-barreled MK 103 cannon to be fitted. The A-10 was to be powered by the 801 F engine. However, due to the priority given to the Dora variant of the Fw 190 and the new Ta 152, the A-10 never made it past the prototype stage.[42]
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it's been discussed before...doubtful if it got added any time in the forseeable future.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,262896.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,262896.0.html)
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Thanks Gyrene81. I am cutting and pasting the post that seemed to add the most information. It seems my short version of 'an A model that was pretty close to the Dora.' After reading this I say we add the -A9 to the list of birds to be added down the road. I know, about 20 birds on that list but eventually...
Boo
Ive done my best to compile a short list of preliminary data. It *is* hard to come by data and, in fact, Ive read some lesser sources that simply seem to "copy and paste" the A8 info into the A9 while only changing the engine designation (not even the power!).
Engine
The primary difference between the two, in reality, is that the A8 was powered by variants of the BMW 801D while the A9 was powered by the BMW 801S (also called the 801TS). The 801D was rated at 1,677HP at military power and 1,953HP with MW50 while the 801S/TS was rated at 1,973HP at military and 2,170 with MW50.
There is a lot of confusion regarding the S, TS, etc radials produced during the end of the war - from what I read - and designations alone have little uniformity. It appears that the TS designation was given to S engines installed in 190's (as opposed to bomber applications) which required enlarged oil coolers. That said, all of the "power egg" engines were born of the 801F program, which never saw installation into aircraft (to-be-built 190A10) due to the war's end.
Beyond that, the use of either the VDM 9-112176A wooden propeller, at 11' 6" in diameter or the VDM 9-12067A metal propeller would further change performance. According to most sources, the A8 "could" use the improved propeller but the A9 was designed with it in mind.
Weight
Again, here, sources vary but weight is another factor worthy of mention. Per the majority of documents, the A8 weighed 7,652lbs empty, 9,100lbs loaded and had a maximum allowable weight of 10,800lbs.
After a brief search, I could not find specific A9 weights. However, it is known that the leading edge armor never made it past the design stage. Lets just add 100lbs to account for the upgraded cooling system for general purposes and arrive at a loaded weight of 9,200lbs.
Armament
The A9 was fully customizable, from a weapons standpoint, on the ground, by the crew, prior to each sortie. By that I mean not only could the outboard 151/20's be removed BUT several sources also state that the 13mm cowl guns could ALSO be deleted at the pilot's discretion!
Backing up into weight, someone (like many of us in this thread) who adores the 2 cannon A5 configuration but would rather blow off the weight of the worthless MG17's would be excited by this.
Airframe
Two items of significance come into play here which would not make the A9 a simple "A8 port" in the game. The nose would have to be elongated, as previously stated, to account for the somewhat larger engine and cooling system but, more importantly, MANY of the A9's were used as field test beds for the tail section ultimately installed on the TA152. See? Your eyebrow is raised. That much rudder authority in a short nosed 190? Tell me more!
The Summary of the VERY, VERY Basic, Took Me 15 Minutes to Look This Stuff Up Post
In very simplistic terms, here is how I would see the 190A9 fitting into AH. Ill use the A8 as my benchmark since we all understand what it is and is not.
Take a 190A8 and increase its military power by 296HP and its MW50 power by 217HP. So, In fact, the A9's 801S makes more power on military settings than the A8's 801D makes on WEP settings.
Oh but what about the increase in weight? True - and I wish I could find more info in the short time Ive dedicated to this post. But, lets just say that 100 pounds for an upgraded cooling system is about right.
That would give P:W ratios as follows (Loaded weighs of 9,100lbs and 9,200lbs used):
190A8 Military: 5.42lbs per HP
190A8 MW50: 4.65lbs per HP
190A9 Military: 4.66lbs per HP
190A9 MW50: 4.23lbs per HP
Thats a significant improvement.
Coupled with that the ability to not only remove the outboard 151/20's but ALSO the 13mm cowl guns and suddenly the power to weight ratio even looks "fighter-like."
Finally - should HTC model the 190A9 with the TA152 tail control surfaces and the improved propeller, we suddenly have an aircraft which, although resembles the 190A8 in appearance, flies drastically differently.
I think it would make an awesome addition and I think it would see significant use in the MA.
If there is a high level of interest, Ill spend to time to go digging for more detailed information.