Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wmaker on September 25, 2012, 08:48:30 AM
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Me323 found at the coast of Sardinia.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203219/Found-70-years-Divers-discover-wreckage-Second-World-War-Giant-German-transport-plane-shot-British-fighter-flying-base-Sardinia.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2203219/Found-70-years-Divers-discover-wreckage-Second-World-War-Giant-German-transport-plane-shot-British-fighter-flying-base-Sardinia.html)
Very interesting discovery.
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:salute neat
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Going to follow this story with interest. Wonder if they will try to salvage her. Be amazing to see a 323 in a museum one day!
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I know hind sight is always 20/20, but I have to wonder why the US, or the UK, or even the Soviets grab on to a single sample of everything they could get their hands on for museum purposes, displays, etc.
It is hard for me to stomach that each and every piece of machinery was turned in to scrap. Oh the horror! :)
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I know hind sight is always 20/20, but I have to wonder why the US, or the UK, or even the Soviets grab on to a single sample of everything they could get their hands on for museum purposes, displays, etc.
It is hard for me to stomach that each and every piece of machinery was turned in to scrap. Oh the horror! :)
Certainly not just the WW2 pieces that have been scrapped. After the Napoleonic Wars, 90% of the Heavy Cavalry swords where scrapped or cut down to make pokers! Such weapons that saw the fields of Salamanca, Talavera, Waterloo, cut down for scrap :cry
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I know hind sight is always 20/20, but I have to wonder why the US, or the UK, or even the Soviets grab on to a single sample of everything they could get their hands on for museum purposes, displays, etc.
It is hard for me to stomach that each and every piece of machinery was turned in to scrap. Oh the horror! :)
Wouldn't matter in the case of the Me323. They had 100% losses on that aircraft.
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Wouldn't matter in the case of the Me323. They had 100% losses on that aircraft.
Were not most of them destroyed on the ground, with only a few being intercepted in the air?
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Were not most of them destroyed on the ground, with only a few being intercepted in the air?
A significant number were shot down, in one mission 21 out of 27 Me 323's were shot down in the MTO.
ack-ack
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I know hind sight is always 20/20, but I have to wonder why the US, or the UK, or even the Soviets grab on to a single sample of everything they could get their hands on for museum purposes, displays, etc.
It is hard for me to stomach that each and every piece of machinery was turned in to scrap. Oh the horror! :)
as far as europe was concerned, we were generally sick of war after 6+ years of it*. it took us decades to rebuild and nobody really wanted anything to remind them about it.
* as well as the great war, and the 1000+ years of wars before them ...
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Wouldn't matter in the case of the Me323. They had 100% losses on that aircraft.
This.
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It was a terrible idea overall. It was never supposed to be flown into combat areas like they eventually did. Far worse than the Marianas Turkey Shoot, most folks don't know about the vain attempt to resupply certain MTO islands near Italy and then the eventual retreat. HUNDREDS of Ju52s were shot down at a time. These Me323s were pushed in because they had a large cargo load. It was a woeful mess.
My question is: What do they mean intact? It didn't look all that intact. I mean I understand there's different levels of decomposition and all, but wasn't the Me323 mostly fabric covering pipe framework? Would there even BE anything other than the wing, and a bunch of pipes?
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No cargo plane can survive against fighters. The Me 323 was a great aircraft that could carry nearly 30,000 pounds of freight. It was the C-5 Galaxy of its day.
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It had a slightly better payload than the 4 engined Avro York, or the Lancaster for that sake, with 6 engines rather than 4. No miracle performance. The York could actually get to around 290+ mph!
It was a bulk of a glider, which proved slightly too heavy and was clapped into a powered aircraft. Very remarkable feat though.
And it had sad days during the evacuation of Tunisia for instance, as so many German transports (and other aircraft as well) which got pushed in there from many other places, - aircraft were even brought in from Stalingrad.
There is yet a lot to be found at the bottom of the med....
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The Avro York is an airliner/cargo conversion of the Lancaster. It could carry 20,000 pounds, not 30,000; that a lot more than "slightly". It did not have anywhere near the same cargo hold volume and couldn't land on rough unprepared airfields. It's tail-dragger configuration made loading/unloading a lot more difficult. You couldn't simply drive the cargo on/off the aircraft.
It couldn't do this:
(http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/me323-1.jpg)
The Me 323 was the first real military transport plane, not just a converted bomber or civilian airliner. All modern military transports have similar "drive on drive off" loading capabilities with either clam shell doors or ramps. Capable of carrying 100 combat-equipped troops or a similar freight load of about 15 tons, the Me 323 is in fact comparable to the C-130 Hercules in load capabilities. And just like the C-130 it could deliver its cargo close to the front lines at simple unprepared airfields.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=500GZ5gfWZ0
(http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/Messerschmitt-Me321/IMAGES/Me323-IMAGES/Me-323-closeup.jpg)
The ten landing wheels gave the Me 323 superb rough-field performance. It could even land on frozen lakes.
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I'll go with GScholz on this one. It was a remarkable aircraft.
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A friend of mine, mr. Erkki Pakarinen, who these days flyes in the heavenly squadron, described his encounter with Me 323. He was ferrying Me 109 fighters from Germany to Finland and made a refuelling stop in some airfield in Germany. He told how he was wondering "what the hell is that thing in the field" when he was doing approach, as he could see the huge thing from very long distance.
After landing he rolled under the wing of this huge 6 engine monster and was admiring its size and awesome outlooks.
It truly made an impression as he described the event in great detail 60 years later, still with his eyes shining from excitement.
G
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Don't want to make too little of the "Giant", just pointing out that it was no remarkable feat in the terms of engineering. The engines were put on for it was too heavy for hauling easily, and even with the six of them, it was still a slow hauler.
It cannot be taken from it however, that the U/C was excellent, and the nose-unloading extremely cool.
(I used to work for Cargolux, loading and unloading 747's that had an opening nose and the side as well!!!, - but that was in the 1990's and they carried 100 tonnes)
So, I cross my fingers in hope that one of those could be rebuilt and put on display. The one on the seabed might be a good candidate
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They could have used higher-powered german engines (maybe just 4 of them) but opted for the non-strategic french engines.
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The engines used delivered some 1.180 hp each, which is not so bad. 7.000 hp. Clapped on to a glider.
Cruising speed at some 130-140 mph, as well as top speed of less than 180 gives no stellar performance though, even with the remarkable load. What sticks out is the nose and the U/C. A rough terrain utility plane. But I'd not have wanted to have been piloting one of these in the German routing of N-Africa.
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1180 PS max short term power for the Gnome-Rhone 14N 48/49 engines, only available if a variable pitch prop was installed (D-1, D-6, D-2 had fixed-pitch props).
The Me 323E is often claimed to have 14R engines with 1180PS take-off power but a development doc for the 323G stated the 14 R 4/5 have 1600PS for take-off.
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Certainly not just the WW2 pieces that have been scrapped. After the Napoleonic Wars, 90% of the Heavy Cavalry swords where scrapped or cut down to make pokers! Such weapons that saw the fields of Salamanca, Talavera, Waterloo, cut down for scrap :cry
I sweep chimneys in my civvy job. Cannot tell you the number of these I have come across by peoples hearths. It is such a shame. Some are beautiful :frown:
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Me thinks the machine guns on this turkey were strickly for keeping up moral. :t
Of all the planes used in WWII this would be the one I wouldn't be caught dead in. :bolt:
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I wouldn't want to be caught in any transport plane during wartime. If you think you'd have more of a chance of survival against fighters in a Goon or Tante Ju, you're mistaken.
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I wouldn't want to be caught in any transport plane during wartime. If you think you'd have more of a chance of survival against fighters in a Goon or Tante Ju, you're mistaken.
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I wouldn't want to be caught in any transport plane during wartime. If you think you'd have more of a chance of survival against fighters in a Goon or Tante Ju, you're mistaken.
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amazinhunk internet!
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I have seen a very brief gun camera sequence of one these planes being shot down. The plane is going straight down in a spin with flames coming off one of the wings and impacts into a clearing near a forest and explodes.
Very dramatic, but the film sequecne is probably less than 6 seconds.