Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on October 02, 2012, 01:55:13 PM
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Guys,
When I see a Spit16 or LA7 land 3+ kills I sometimes think to my self "you better get that many in that plane". I mean come on! On the other side of things though, which planes do you feel in the LW arena are the most difficult to get kills in?
Thanks,
Slade :salute
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Any plane can be difficult to be successful in.
ack-ack
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Given how few kills per sortie the average player gets, landing three kills in a P-51D, La-7 or Spitfire Mk XVI is a big success for them.
Be charitable in your thoughts.
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landing three kills in a P-51D, La-7 or Spitfire Mk XVI is a big success for them.
I hear ya. Actually I only tend to land 1 ... or none. I tend not to use the rearm pad too so there you go.
Good point. :salute
What plane do you feel is the most challenging for you to get kills in consistently in LW?
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Any plane can be difficult to be successful in.
ack-ack
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/wolfala/Aces%20High%20Artwork/Snake38fighthighqualitycopy.jpg)
I'd say these 2 both have a target hung on them more or less 100% of the time.
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Idc what they fly as long as they fight like a man.
P39
That aircraft is a nightmare.
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Hurri I, SpitI and Me410 are very tough for me to get kills in. Joining the green horde might help but usually friendlies only help in racking up assists. Still have yet to get anywhere near a bomber in the 410 and can't seem to catch or corner anyone in the the other two jalopies.
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Hurri I, SpitI and Me410 are very tough for me to get kills in. Joining the green horde might help but usually friendlies only help in racking up assists. Still have yet to get anywhere near a bomber in the 410 and can't seem to catch or corner anyone in the the other two jalopies.
In tour 151 I got 10 buff kills in a 410, it's pretty devastating to them that's for sure. The only problem is, they have a glass wing and it's not a fighter so don't fight in it.
To me, if it's German, I stinks in it.
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I get a kick out of the "1337" players (or so they think) that rely on the easiest of LW aircraft to get kills in (La7, Spit16, P51D, F4Ux, George, Tempest, etc). When someone can land kills over and over in a P40x, 109G, P47x, or other such challenging plane THEN I take notice. Otherwise... they are all panty waste!!! :)
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109, hate flying that thing.
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I get a kick out of the "1337" players (or so they think) that rely on the easiest of LW aircraft to get kills in (La7, Spit16, P51D, F4Ux, George, Tempest, etc). When someone can land kills over and over in a P40x, 109G, P47x, or other such challenging plane THEN I take notice. Otherwise... they are all panty waste!!! :)
Or maybe they are just vulching? ;)
The p47s can turn fairly well (just ask the "masochists", LilMak, Juggler, Lepape etc), also there are some people who can throw around the 109G like a spit...
Well, the p40, now thats a real challenge (to find someone who isnt running away haha)
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If you can keep the fight at super high speeds or high altitude, the P47 turns better than most.
Low and slow makes it pretty vulnerable.
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If you can keep the fight at super high speeds or high altitude, the P47 turns better than most.
Low and slow makes it pretty vulnerable.
Agreed. If the speeds can stay above 300 TAS and above 20,000 feet the P47x is a tough nut to crack, especially the M and N.
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The entire premise of your thread and that of some of the responders is just wrong.
I fly Spit XVI's a lot and rarely land more than three kills. On the other hand I can fly a 190A-8, a Bf-109E-4 or a P-40 and land three kills just as easily and maybe even more so.
The difference is in who and how you're willing to fight in differing aircraft. In the Spit I'm much more bold in how many cons I'm willing to take on at a time and how long I'll linger in a horde. 10 on 1 I'm in. In the E-4 I want to lower the odds against me. In a P-40 three on one's the limit.
It's easy to land many kills against buffs in an A-8, one of the ultimate buff hunters, but I can land just as many in a Spit, one of the most fragile aircraft in the game. Hell, I've killed three B-26's with a Hurricane Mk I.
My point is you can be successful or unsuccessful in any aircraft. It all depends on how you fly it and what you fly it against. Unless you're willing to define the fight paramaters then this thread makes no sense nor does a bias against a given aircraft, no matter what you think about it's ease of flight.
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It's easy to land many kills against buffs in an A-8, one of the ultimate buff hunters, but I can land just as many in a Spit, one of the most fragile aircraft in the game.
You are doing something wrong then, spitfire is one of the most versatile and easiest aircraft's to fly. Your ACM, and SA must take a serious hit if what you are assumingly trying to say is - its easier to pick in a A8, then try to dogfight in a trainerfire.
Spitfire is no where near fragile as any other aircraft. I boosted about shooting down a jug with pair of 13mms with less then 50 rounds total, till I looked at the film and realized it wont matter where you hit an aircraft if you concetrate your fire on any given area long enough it does enough damage a plane will go down.
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Anyone can make their own choice what to fly based on their own goals. Every airplane is an easy mode plane. No exceptions.
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I feel like a cheater when I fly 190a5 instead of an 190A8. :bolt:
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Anyone can make their own choice what to fly based on their own goals. Every airplane is an easy mode plane. No exceptions.
trying to legitimize the 28k pony awesomeness, huh?
Try the same in a p40, or a 109G6, just for once, then talk about EZ mode :aok
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trying to legitimize the 28k pony awesomeness, huh?
Try the same in a p40, or a 109G6, just for once, then talk about EZ mode :aok
No exceptions.
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Every alcohol has its effect. A small beer is the same as 3 shots.
See, youre right, i wont argue over this shizz.
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Every airplane is an easy mode plane. No exceptions.
Really? So if they all are equally easy, how come a majority of kills are in the P-51D, SpitXVI, La-7, 190D-9, 109K, N1K and F4U?
I don't see too many P-39D fighter sweeps, do you?
Of course if they are not all equally easy, then some must be easier than others. Hence the designation "easy mode".
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Really? So if they all are equally easy, how come a majority of kills are in the P-51D, SpitXVI, La-7, 190D-9, 109K, N1K and F4U?
I don't see too many P-39D fighter sweeps, do you?
Of course if they are not all equally easy, then some must be easier than others. Hence the designation "easy mode".
Because majority of the people like the Pony more than they do say a P39. I agree with Challenge.
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Yes, capability and performance have absolutely no influence on plane choices in the MA :noid
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Yes, capability and performance have absolutely no influence on plane choices in the MA :noid
I agree %100!!! I also think there is a bug that makes ENY20 or higher aircraft unavailable to the "l337" in the MA's. :aok
Anyone who thinks every plane provides an "easy mode" is truly fooling themselves. That is no joke.
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Yes, capability and performance have absolutely no influence on plane choices in the MA
Clearly true. Spit 16, I-16, hey, what's the difference, really? If you're good, you're good.
- oldman
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
oh my.......I should post up a film of chalenge doing his 1 pass haul arse......
what a maroon.
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Of course if they are not all equally easy, then some must be easier than others.
The difference is in who and how you're willing to fight in differing aircraft.
Two potent quotes on the topic above.
In the context of simply getting kills, I think we can agree "how you're willing to fight" is sometimes greatly influenced by what you do fly. Yes, there are peeps that can turn fight low and slow in a P-47 and the like but (in this context) plane type influences flying style.
Thus, "what planes are hardest to get kills in" comes down to how you fly what you are in. To be effective requires knowing the plane very deeply of course.
Great to bounce around these topics with you guys. In a sense, I am thinking out loud with you and coming to understand ACM and the given chess pieces better.
Slade :salute
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
oh my.......I should post up a film of chalenge doing his 1 pass haul arse......
what a maroon.
Most people block out the stunning losses they experience and concentrate on the victories as a way of pumping themselves up. None of these airplanes are difficult to fly. None of them have a unique advantage that cannot be defeated by some other aircraft in the arena. If you chose to fly a plane that is less capable in order to show your unique talent then you have no leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about another pilots plane when he kills you or lands kills.
I also have recorded ever flight and every kill I have ever made ink. Many of them are one pass kill on you where you didnt wiggle until the bullets started to hit you. Maroon indeed! :rofl
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Most people block out the stunning losses they experience and concentrate on the victories as a way of pumping themselves up. None of these airplanes are difficult to fly. None of them have a unique advantage that cannot be defeated by some other aircraft in the arena. If you chose to fly a plane that is less capable in order to show your unique talent then you have no leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about another pilots plane when he kills you or lands kills.
I also have recorded ever flight and every kill I have ever made ink. Many of them are one pass kill on you where you didnt wiggle until the bullets started to hit you. Maroon indeed! :rofl
:rofl...live in fantasy world much....
already offered to DA ...but like an typical wannabe's you wuss up...talk the talk but cant back up squat.
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Every plane is as easy as any other when fighting under ideal conditions or against its ideal opponent. I think thats what challenge meant to say.
But there are 100% guaranteed easy-mode planes for the "typical" AH fight.
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I don't always play AH but when I do, I rid in a tree.
.... and I never die! :devil
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Seriously?
People base respect for each other on plane choice?
Seems awful short-sighted and shallow.
I've seen a lot of "difficult mode" planes that wouldn't stray from their protective hordes, and only seemed to want to fight me if they had help (and even then, they'd often hang outside the fight and only jump in to pounce on me when I'd been whittled down to a state of helplessness).
And I've been in many a swarm with my "easy mode" lone-wolf F4U where simply keeping an eye on my enemies was tough; let alone surviving, getting any kills, or getting out with any kills.
In a one on one, sure, plane choice matters. In the MA's though, landing kills is based far more on many factors OTHER than plane choice.
I believe the "plane choice" argument is primarily an excuse for getting killed. It's a crutch. AN important crutch at times, because some people obviously need to find a way to feel better than others when their stats may tell a different story.
I don't think I could respect someone who based respect on plane choice.
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The people in disagreement fight as a group and pick people off each others six. Its smart but it doesnt mean they are flying more difficult aircraft. The real fact is they spin more horse hockey than any politician you ever heard of.
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Seriously?
People base respect for each other on plane choice?
Seems awful short-sighted and shallow.
thank you.. I guess my humor didn't deliver the message... oh well joke fail....:(
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Seriously?
People base respect for each other on plane choice?
Seems awful short-sighted and shallow.
I've seen a lot of "difficult mode" planes that wouldn't stray from their protective hordes, and only seemed to want to fight me if they had help (and even then, they'd often hang outside the fight and only jump in to pounce on me when I'd been whittled down to a state of helplessness).
And I've been in many a swarm with my "easy mode" lone-wolf F4U where simply keeping an eye on my enemies was tough; let alone surviving, getting any kills, or getting out with any kills.
In a one on one, sure, plane choice matters. In the MA's though, landing kills is based far more on many factors OTHER than plane choice.
I believe the "plane choice" argument is primarily an excuse for getting killed. It's a crutch. AN important crutch at times, because some people obviously need to find a way to feel better than others when their stats may tell a different story.
I don't think I could respect someone who based respect on plane choice.
I agree completely.....
I respect those that fight.....I don't care what they fly......as long as they fight.....
but I respect someone more when they show they dont need the "kill"
for instance pnydrvr he always fights in his 51....also refused to engage me while I was fighting 2 of his friends.....
thats a guy I will respect and remember.....
the one pass haul arse to ACK or friends only to engage when the nme is engaged with friends......
then come up with all kinds of excuses why they didn't fight.....I have absolutely nothing for....except disdain.
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I don't necessarily respect people for what they fly. I do look down on certain "Aces", who could probably mop up in anything and yet are often found flying late war monsters in gang vulch parties. How they get their jollies this way is mystifying. I would be bored to death.
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I will "chalenge" anyone to a duel. I get the Spit16 and you get the P40C or I-16 w/ the .30 cal MG's only. Oh, we all take %100 fuel, too. We start at 10k, meet head on at full speed then once we pass it becomes "game on".
We'll see just how important the plane is.
Plane selection is everything and while pilot "skill" means at least %50 the ability of the plane to out run, out climb, out turn, or out dive is a huge part of the other half of that pie chart. Gunnery and raw knowledge of the aircraft quirks and abilities (or lack of) are important as well.
Make no mistake about it, the plane is a bigger part of the success of a player than the nay-sayers will admit to.
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Your ACM, and SA must take a serious hit if what you are assumingly trying to say is - its easier to pick in a A8, then try to dogfight in a trainerfire.
Where the hell did you get that from? I said nothing of the sort.
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Just for the record I dont respect any of you for what you do in AH. Nothing in this game can earn you respect. But when you go and insult someone for choosing a certain plane or for flying a certain way . . . I laugh at you. I am not the only one. WAY too serious. But then I realize thats exactly what you come here for. You want respect? Earn a million dollars or cure cancer or something along those lines.
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here we go... earn a load of money, you get respect... play like a man, you dont get respect...
Where this world is going.
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I think you're a snob.
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but I respect someone more when they show they dont need the "kill"
Ditto. On every single occasion where a country-mate is asking for help or a call comes out at a pivotal moment for support in taking a base I'll engage. I notice some score obsessed don't follow suite. Their $15\month so I just shrug it off.
Maybe the title of this thread is misleading. Just trying to get feedback on effectivity vs. plane choice. Some really good feedback has come out of this thread so far. :salute
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I will "chalenge" anyone to a duel. I get the Spit16 and you get the P40C or I-16 w/ the .30 cal MG's only. Oh, we all take %100 fuel, too. We start at 10k, meet head on at full speed then once we pass it becomes "game on".
We'll see just how important the plane is.
Plane selection is everything and while pilot "skill" means at least %50 the ability of the plane to out run, out climb, out turn, or out dive is a huge part of the other half of that pie chart. Gunnery and raw knowledge of the aircraft quirks and abilities (or lack of) are important as well.
Make no mistake about it, the plane is a bigger part of the success of a player than the nay-sayers will admit to.
Once again, we're talking about two radically different situations, and trying to jumble them into one convenient metric.
Dueling situations have very little in common with the MA environment. Trying to compare same-plane or different-plane situations as if dueling and the MA were synonymous is ridiculous.
Personally, I find lone-wolfing the MA swarms in my late war monster F4U to be infinitely more difficult/challenging/engaging/exciting than the VAST majority of 1v1 dueling (whether it's same-plane duels or whether I'm disadvantaged through plane-choice, fuel load-out, or whatever).
Plane-choice "respect" arguments are really nothing more than ego-fluff (which is fine, BTW; we all find different ways/reasons to enjoy the game).
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Ditto. On every single occasion where a country-mate is asking for help or a call comes out at a pivotal moment for support in taking a base I'll engage. I notice some score obsessed don't follow suite. Their $15\month so I just shrug it off.
Maybe the title of this thread is misleading. Just trying to get feedback on effectivity vs. plane choice. Some really good feedback has come out of this thread so far. :salute
And see, this is something I find more disrespectful than plane-choice. I may jump in to save someone who's asking for assistance, but I consider doing so to be disrespectful for my/our opponent.
On the other hand, I truly love the challenge of having my opponent getting help in defeating me. I'm ok with a multi-on-me, I'm not ok with participating in a multi-on-one.
Game-wise, I completely ignore the base-capture aspects though, so that's a fundamental difference between the way I play and the way others play.
:salute
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Personally, I find lone-wolfing the MA swarms in my late war monster F4U to be infinitely more difficult/challenging/engaging/exciting than the VAST majority of 1v1 dueling (whether it's same-plane duels or whether I'm disadvantaged through plane-choice, fuel load-out, or whatever).
Don't you think it might be even more difficult were you flying a P-40C?
- oldman
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Don't you think it might be even more difficult were you flying a P-40C?
- oldman
It is without a doubt, let no one tell you differently. There is no possible way for anyone to have the firepower, speed, climb, or turn ability (etc) in a P40x that would lend him the same capability as any of the F4U's to get done what he just said he likes to do (engage a horde). Is it absolute? No. But the odds of *anyone* engaging in the MA's or a duel while in a P40C vs the typical LW fighters are strongly against them. Having a P40C handicaps their ability in a major way. If it wasn't the case then the numbers would be much more balanced across the board in terms of plane usage. The F4U's can have outstanding boom-n-zoom abilities, are fast, retain E very well, have average or better firepower, and if by chance the P51, La7, or Dora gets on their six with equal E the F4U is one of the few planes that can run almost as fast and yet outmaneuver them at all speeds.
The argument of "it is the pilot, not the plane" is an incomplete statement.
I'm anxious to hear what mtnman has to say about the P40C vs F4Ux in the MA or in a duel.
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Everything the P-40 can do, the F4U can do better.
Why else would the current Late War kill tally look like this:
Kills In: F4U-1A: 620 P-40C: 3
Players want a reasonable chance of success, so they choose planes that will give them that.
Situations, pilot skill and flying style obviously help dictate the outcome of a sortie, but to say that some planes are not easier than others is silly.
If it weren't, why did the nations of WWII bother to keep upgrading their equipment?
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Don't you think it might be even more difficult were you flying a P-40C?
- oldman
Was that in question?
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It is without a doubt, let no one tell you differently. There is no possible way for anyone to have the firepower, speed, climb, or turn ability (etc) in a P40x that would lend him the same capability as any of the F4U's to get done what he just said he likes to do (engage a horde). Is it absolute? No. But the odds of *anyone* engaging in the MA's or a duel while in a P40C vs the typical LW fighters are strongly against them. Having a P40C handicaps their ability in a major way. If it wasn't the case then the numbers would be much more balanced across the board in terms of plane usage. The F4U's can have outstanding boom-n-zoom abilities, are fast, retain E very well, have average or better firepower, and if by chance the P51, La7, or Dora gets on their six with equal E the F4U is one of the few planes that can run almost as fast and yet outmaneuver them at all speeds.
The argument of "it is the pilot, not the plane" is an incomplete statement.
Again, this wasn't in question (from what I've seen).
The question appeared to be about respect earned as it related to landing kills in different planes.
I'm anxious to hear what mtnman has to say about the P40C vs F4Ux in the MA or in a duel.
There-in lies the error in your thinking...
Do you assume that landing kills in the P40C means the pilot killed an F4U? Or fought alone (i.e 1vs 1)? Or did anything but linger on the outskirts of a fight to jump in and pick planes that were defenseless for one reason or another?
I would argue til the cows come home that I could fly a P40C and make/land kills easier than I can in an F4U-4, simply by flying in different areas, and/or under different circumstances than I fly an F4U-4. I've done just that in a P40 (but I don't think I've ever flown the P40C?).
For example, I lone-wolf fight against the hordes in an F4U-4. That's difficult.
In a P40C I could fly with a squad protecting me, and only fight "safe" opponents. I could gang, instead of fighting the gang. That would be easy in comparison to lone-wolfing against a horde in my F4U-4.
Landing kills in my P40C, if you thought I deserved respect for being successful in the "difficult" plane, you'd be mistaken. If you felt I didn't deserve respect for landing kills in my F4U-4 you'd be mistaken.
Heck, I've even easily beat multiple opponents in a P40, simply because they were very unskilled. I landed their scalps, and was saluted. I've done that on multiple occasions. If someone (anyone) thought it was a noteworthy accomplishment they were wrong.
You cannot accurately judge "respect" earned based on kills landed in plane type.
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Was that in question?
The question was:
"On the other side of things though, which planes do you feel in the LW arena are the most difficult to get kills in?"
So...yes, that was in question.
There's no doubt that a person can up a P-40C, hide in the weeds, avoid all contact with enemy planes, and then suddenly pounce on some crippled goon in the landing pattern and get a kill. We see just this sort of thing all too often in the MA (except that usually it isn't a P-40C). It's why I've never been impressed by seeing huge kill tallies in the MA; there's no way to tell whether they were acquired by vultching, picking, ganging, repeated rearming or some other, more difficult way.
The gist of the original question, and the discussion which followed, was whether, as between two people flying in essentially the same style, the guy who flys the less-capable plane deserves more respect than the guy who flys the more-capable plane, and which plane would be the most difficult to fly in the MA (I assume the OP meant the LW MA) under such circumstances. I'm surprised that there's any dispute about the first part, and I've yet to notice much discussion about the second.
- oldman
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When im in a Spit16, i can successfully fight against 2-3 "average" spits - depending on how they double team or just jump on me.
When im in a G6, one spit16 is hard enough to kill.
Also, in the G6, i can effectively fight against 2-3 P40s, either they are double teaming or not.
And the P40 is nowhere near the P39...
This is the difference.
And "how" they fly, of course. Idc, you can fly anything, as long as youre not a hide-in-the-horde-then-pick-and-run type, you get respect.
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When im in a Spit16, i can successfully fight against 2-3 "average" spits - depending on how they double team or just jump on me.
When im in a G6, one spit16 is hard enough to kill.
Also, in the G6, i can effectively fight against 2-3 P40s, either they are double teaming or not.
And the P40 is nowhere near the P39...
This is the difference.
I think that's why we were so generous with them when the russians needed airplanes.
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To answer the origanal question, the spit1 is pretty hard for me to land kills in, Someone already mentioned that you cant tell how anyone got there kills, I personal don't link landing multiple kills with respect, If someone I fell earned my respect lands multiple kills I will usually <S> them though :joystick:
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its not what you fly, its how you fly... period.
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its not what you fly, its how you fly... period.
You drank the kool-aid too?
If your plane can not out turn or out climb someone then getting your guns on them becomes very difficult.
If your plane can not out run someone then getting away from their guns become almost impossible (in the end game).
If your guns are of weaker stature (think P40C, I-16 w/ .30 MG's, etc), then snap shots are much harder to be successful with.
The point many are trying to make is that it certainly does make a difference because if the plane simply can not perform to a certain level. The counter argument seems to be that it doesn't matter if you're in a corvette or Volt: they both will get you from point A to point B. That isn't the argument anyone is trying to make, but instead that getting to 130mph, taking corners at 90mph, etc etc, all favor the 'vette. Makes no difference if the location is MA or DA, the ability to land kills in a P40C is far more challenging than in a Spit16/P51D/La7, etc, etc. This "pilot is everything" bravado gets a bit comical at times.
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Planes make a difference for sure. I think they make a little bit more difference in this game than they would have in real life. The ratio of plane/pilot skill is probably 60/40ish, imo.
The difference between the planes can, to some degree, be made up for with pilot skill/SA. But, imho, there is no substitute for raw plane performance. It makes the job of killing and landing (if that's your thing) much easier.
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Anyone can make their own choice what to fly based on their own goals. Every airplane is an easy mode plane.
That is so incredibly laughable, I almost spit coffee over the monitor.
In a regular environment, the faster plane that can operate at the target altitude has a huge advantage. If that wasn't true, you'd see P51s/La7s/Temps/262s being shot down in droves by everything else in the plane set.
What I consider 'ability'is to fight your opponents fight and still win the engagement. For example, a good stick in a P51 will maneuver with aircraft with a lower wing loading and still win. Unfortunately, aside from just a few p51 flyers, they are a bunch of sack less wonders that will not engage unless they have every possible advantage (alt, speed, position, and numbers). Heck, there is an entire squadron of them in AH; I think they even go to the bathroom together!
This can apply to others flying other airframes too (a certain mission building F4U pilot comes to mind), but P51s are absolutely the worst offenders.
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My experience of encountering the P-40 indicates I am either marvelously and magically better than the guys in P-40s as compared to merely average against most or that the P-40 is markedly harder to use than the Mosquito.
I think the second of those is much more likely to be true.
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You drank the kool-aid too?
Sure in a 1v1 situation, one plane will do better in a dog fight than another... But that doesn't garner any respect. What I respect is a pilot who is willing to scrap and do so even if the odds are not favorable. And for that I don't care what plane they are in, its more about impressing me with their skills as a pilot.
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Sure in a 1v1 situation, one plane will do better in a dog fight than another... But that doesn't garner any respect. What I respect is a pilot who is willing to scrap and do so even if the odds are not favorable. And for that I don't care what plane they are in, its more about impressing me with their skills as a pilot.
A Spitfire Mk XVI will do better in a multi-plane dogfight than a P-40C will because it is more able to place itself where it needs to be and to capitalize on that placement. A multi-plane engagement does not erase the advantages of the better performing aircraft. While more opportunities are created in a multi-plane fight, a better performing aircraft will have more opportunities created than a poorer performing aircraft.
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Respect is generally earned by how you fight rather than what you fight with. That being said, certain planes do allow you to make mistakes during an engagement and performance will allow you to escape where you would normally get creamed. If plane selection had no bearing on the outcome of virtual combat, there would be no ENY or perks.
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A Spitfire Mk XVI will do better in a multi-plane dogfight than a P-40C will because it is more able to place itself where it needs to be and to capitalize on that placement. A multi-plane engagement does not erase the advantages of the better performing aircraft. While more opportunities are created in a multi-plane fight, a better performing aircraft will have more opportunities created than a poorer performing aircraft.
All that is true, but I can tell the difference between a ok pilot in a very good plane and a very good pilot in an ok plane.
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Sure in a 1v1 situation, one plane will do better in a dog fight than another... But that doesn't garner any respect. What I respect is a pilot who is willing to scrap and do so even if the odds are not favorable. And for that I don't care what plane they are in, its more about impressing me with their skills as a pilot.
Lol, my flights used to follow the same basic patern:
"Need help, bingo ammo and got a couple cons on me!"
hmmm..... 4v1.... in a 109F? Tally ho!
"Thanks for the help. Had litterally no ammo left"
"No problem man!" crap, this was not the best decsion I've ever made
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I think the point here is "comparison". If someone lands 2 kills in plane"X" and I regularly land 3-4 in plane"X" I don't have a lot of respect for his flying..... as compared to me. After all I suck and I can land more :P
Basically with your experience in as many planes as you can fly here you compare everyone based on what you know of them. If you think plane "X" is a tough bird to fly and someone lands a bunch of kills in it then your respect for that player goes up a bit. You don't really think about the "how" so much.
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Skill (Player A) x Performance (Plane A) vs Skill (Player B) x Performance (Plane B) :old:
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Its probably closer to this, lusche:
Preformance (Plane A)^2 x ( 2xSkill (Player A)/3)^3 vs Preformance (Plane B)^2 x (2xSkill (Player B)/3)^3.
It seems that at low skill levels, preformance is by far the determining factor. But at high skill levels, the factor that skill plays into a fight increases far faster than preformance, due to the power of 3 affecting skill.
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Forgot to definiate integer it from 0 to sq. root 2 / 2
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These math models are too optimistic... they should be modeling the lack of respect you get for being a toon pilot....
I'm thinking something like this...
"Hey baby, can I buy you a drink... oh and I'm an excellent cartoon ww2 pilot"
lack of respect == (number of kills total) / (number of hours played - number of hours played)
:rofl
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There are many ways to play and measure success in this game.
A 1 v1 duel is very different to MA play. If you plan your sortie properly it is possible to have success in any plane.
Fight with your AC strengths and with discipline you can prevail.
Personally I measure success by how much fun I've had.
If I can find a player who will mix it up and fight = 100% FUN
Sure I like to win, though sometimes it's not much fun.
I get shot down in the thousands but try and learn.
Finally in a knife fight you get to shoot down the Bastage who has been tormenting you. = FUN FUN FUN
The cherry on top is a PM whine from the defeated girl.
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I don't get people who worry about opponents respecting you or not. It's not like Mr Winky gets smaller if you lose. In over a decade of
playing AH, HTC has never once run out of new aircraft either :lol
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I don't get people who worry about opponents respecting you or not. It's not like Mr Winky gets smaller if you lose. In over a decade of
playing AH, HTC has never once run out of new aircraft either :lol
It's like respecting Tom Brady. He's not a god or anything, but you respect him for his skill. He put in the time and effort to get to his skill level.
I think the same goes for this game. Twinboom, AckAck, Delirium are some of the players I respect in the 38. They are not gods or anything, but they put in the time and effort to get to their skill level.
There are planes in the list that many players call/think are easy mode. There isn't a lot of time and effort needed for those. It's like Brady and the "Pats" playing the whole season against high school teams. Sure they are going to go undefeated, but would you respect them?
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Agreed. If the speeds can stay above 300 TAS and above 20,000 feet the P47x is a tough nut to crack, especially the M and N.
Hmmm?
JUGgler
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I respect "for lack of a better word" those who play each engagement to "WIN", Those who play "not to lose" are the average "unwashed" masses!
Anyone who is truly competitive knows the difference!
I think most in the upper tier would agree :aok
:salute
JUGgler
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Hmmm?
JUGgler
*sigh* :rolleyes:
You know the routine. I understand you're a fan/student/promoter of the P47 and I think ultimately we all are, but it does have its limitations but they seem to be more absolute than most other planes. Go ahead and tell me how wrong I am and that the jug can hang with a Spit or Zeke in a turn fight, or climb with the 109's in a tight spiral, or roll with the 190's in a scissors.... go ahead. Defeating a jug is easy: slow it down, get it to lower alts, and slit it's throat.
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These math models are too optimistic... they should be modeling the lack of respect you get for being a toon pilot....
I'm thinking something like this...
"Hey baby, can I buy you a drink... oh and I'm an excellent cartoon ww2 pilot"
lack of respect == (number of kills total) / (number of hours played - number of hours played)
:rofl
Did you know the limit of that equation is potentially 1? I mean it all depends on how you look at the concept of 0/0.
It makes sense that you seperate a quantity of 0 into no groups (0 groups). That and by definition, any number divided by itself is 1.
So if you create an account, but don't play, you're starting out with a respect level of 1. 0 kills / (0 hrs played - 0 hrs played).
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Did you know the limit of that equation is potentially 1? I mean it all depends on how you look at the concept of 0/0.
It makes sense that you seperate a quantity of 0 into no groups (0 groups). That and by definition, any number divided by itself is 1.
So if you create an account, but don't play, you're starting out with a respect level of 1. 0 kills / (0 hrs played - 0 hrs played).
:rofl :rofl I'm honored and I find it funny that someone would give my joke that much thought.
now to put in context with the OP... who would ever expect 'video game respect' for never receiving any kills, ever... not even a proxy.... I guess in a way, it would be a +1 respect in RL... as in that you would never talk about it!
(ps... I spent have spent many-many hours playing this game in the past, so in a way, I'm making fun of myself)
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*sigh* :rolleyes:
You know the routine. I understand you're a fan/student/promoter of the P47 and I think ultimately we all are, but it does have its limitations but they seem to be more absolute than most other planes. Go ahead and tell me how wrong I am and that the jug can hang with a Spit or Zeke in a turn fight, or climb with the 109's in a tight spiral, or roll with the 190's in a scissors.... go ahead. Defeating a jug is easy: slow it down, get it to lower alts, and slit it's throat.
You clearly underestimate the "FAT ONE"
The JUG is not uber by any stretch of the imagination, but it can be very suprising for those who take it for granted.
If slowing it down is your answer than you have not tangled with one of the very fine JUGglers in this game!
MAK, LEPAPE, YUCCA, NOVA, BLUEKITTY, ETC ETC ETC. Besides JUGs are always slowing down, even when they are speeding up :aok
:salute
JUGgler
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Respect is generally earned by how you fight rather than what you fight with.
This brings up an interesting point of perception. If one fights as US pilots did in WWII (boom-n-zoom against zeros etc) or even using many of Boeleck's rules of engagement, then the given pilot is seen as un-sportsmen like or worse! Very interesting I think.
Fighting to this audience, if one chooses not to engage in a formal knock-down-dragged-out-duel, is seen as an inferior pilot.
This is kinda messed up if expecting this in LW it seems. Perhaps if one is that attached to the expectation of formal dueling...then go to dueling arena. :old:
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This brings up an interesting point of perception. If one fights as US pilots did in WWII (boom-n-zoom against zeros etc) or even using many of Boeleck's rules of engagement, then the given pilot is seen as un-sportsmen like or worse! Very interesting I think.
Fighting to this audience, if one chooses not to engage in a formal knock-down-dragged-out-duel, is seen as an inferior pilot.
This is kinda messed up if expecting this in LW it seems. Perhaps if one is that attached to the expectation of formal dueling...then go to dueling arena. :old:
you can still fight while BnZing.....you dont need to go 6K away and come back while they are engaged with friends....a good BnZ player will put the pressure on and work it...... never going more then 2-2.5 K away.....that is totally OK in my book.....as long as they put an effort in and actually fight....never do I expect someone in a 190 to TnB my Ki nor do I get upset if they dont....
its the one pass haul arse out of icon range come back and pick the guy type that are aggravating.....
besides flying in AH like it is real life is silly.
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you can still fight while BnZing.....you dont need to go 6K away and come back while they are engaged with friends....a good BnZ player will put the pressure on and work it...... never going more then 2-2.5 K away.....that is totally OK in my book.....as long as they put an effort in and actually fight....never do I expect someone in a 190 to TnB my Ki nor do I get upset if they dont....
its the one pass haul arse out of icon range come back and pick the guy type that are aggravating.....
besides flying in AH like it is real life is silly.
I actually agree with this entire post.
:noid
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I actually agree with this entire post.
:noid
:rofl
are you juggalo?
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are you juggalo?
No, but I keep the avatar rocking because I know how much most people hate the poor Juggaloes.
I guess you could call me a Juggalo Sympathizer. :lol
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besides flying in AH like it is real life is silly.
This is a silly little video game we all play. ;) It is all a conspiracy mind in a sense. BTW, I certainly appreciate a good duel. They are a blast!
You know to be fixed on any point of view is guarantees you will be let down. Oh boy. Maybe I need to bring Wofat in at this point. :lol
I mean all this in a cool way. Nothing heavy. Perhaps it is the drama that motivates us - I certainly don't know. I just sit back and observe phenomena and say "check that out".
I love to be silly but don't tend to extend for a sector.
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No, but I keep the avatar rocking because I know how much most people hate the poor Juggaloes.
I guess you could call me a Juggalo Sympathizer. :lol
cc that.......I have met many a juggalo some were cool some not so much.....like anything in life.....wish I had 20$ for every hatchet man I tattooed..... :lol
This is a silly little video game we all play. ;) It is all a conspiracy mind in a sense. BTW, I certainly appreciate a good duel. They are a blast!
You know to be fixed on any point of view is guarantees you will be let down. Oh boy. Maybe I need to bring Wofat in at this point. :lol
I mean all this in a cool way. Nothing heavy. Perhaps it is the drama that motivates us - I certainly don't know. I just sit back and observe phenomena and say "check that out".
I love to be silly but don't tend to extend for a sector.
thats why I think its silly to try to fly like its the real world....hell its a game....in an FSO or something like that I can see flying to stay alive...but the MA.....blaaaaa.........avoidi ng combat in a combat game.....seems asinine to me......
I am sure chalenge would say some smart arse remark..... :rofl......I got about as much respect for him as I do for drdeath.
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Ink, Ardy, Mak and JUGgler get it.
It's not what you fly, but how you fly it.
We're not talking about "what's easier to get kills in" as much as "what flying technique will produce kills with the least effort required."
That, to me, has a lot more to do with the notion of "respect" for cartoon fighting skills.....
It's certainly easier to get kills in a Spit16 or LA7 than it is a P-39D or I-16. No one disputes that, and to think aircraft choice doesn't play a huge part in your chances of making back to base alive under most MA circustances is silly.
However, I think how you fly means a lot more.... ie, I would tend to be more impressed with someone who upps an LA7 to fight an incoming horde and is outnumbered 4 to 1, and only lands 2 kills, than someone who flies a 25 or 30 eny plane but never leaves the horde, runs to friends at the loss of total advantage, or vulches and cherry-picks around a capped field, and lands 10 kills.
I happen to like the LA7 because I know most runners can't get away without having to fight. I do find little or no satisfaction in landing kills when I have all of the advantages, but I do get a good bit of satisfation from living through a fight and landing scalps in the LA when I've pushed the plane outside of its envelope, such as slow and low, stallfighting Spits and F4Us, often while outnumbered.
Do I really care if anyone here "respects" my landing kills in an LA? LOL. No. I don't play this game for anyone but me. But like LUGgler said, I don't understand how some people get enjoyment from avoiding the fight, running, and flying to get kills by not putting themselves at risk or pushing their aircraft and their own abilities beyond what they should be capable of. But hey, it's their $15, what do I care.
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You clearly underestimate the "FAT ONE"
The JUG is not uber by any stretch of the imagination, but it can be very suprising for those who take it for granted.
If slowing it down is your answer than you have not tangled with one of the very fine JUGglers in this game!
MAK, LEPAPE, YUCCA, NOVA, BLUEKITTY, ETC ETC ETC. Besides JUGs are always slowing down, even when they are speeding up :aok
:salute
JUGgler
This is TRUTH.
I have felt the pain of these guys' Jugs on more than one occasion... and have decided to partake of the Big Girl's goodness... and my oh my she is one very capable girl!
The N is a monster, but I have found that I'm in love with the D11... what a fun bird.
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Basically it comes down to the pilot more than the plane. Equal pilots in Equal planes comes down to who makes the first mistake. It depends on your skill as opposed to your opponent. If you are better you can succeed in a lesser plane. I like the Bf-110G2. Fire power unsurpassed. Manoeuvrability better than most give it credit for. I am not a great pilot and 2/3 of my kills are buffs. But 1/3 are fighters. I will take the 110 at 28 to 30K against almost any other fighter. It performs better at altitude than most people give it credit for. Again how you fight it and your skill level will determine your success.
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I hate when I die ......no matter the plane I fly or the plane or player I fight against......no matter the style I fly.... It is ALWAYS my fault
I love killing enemies....the more, the better.....no matter the style or the circumstances or the planes involved...It is ALWAYS their fault
I respect to the same level the TnB low fighter that kills me with initial disavantage than the one pass killer that I didn't ever see...
But overall, I respect guys who respect others no matter they die or they get a kill....I try to ignore what doesnt fix here.
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Slade,
Let's say I've never tried any 109 (maybe 1-2 sorties in one year).
So, talking about the LW planes I fly the most (A5, A8 and D9), I find the Dora the most difficult to get kills in.
You were talking just about getting kills, not surviving right ?....Then the Dora, less powershot in that plane.
:salute
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I hate when I die ......no matter the plane I fly or the plane or player I fight against......no matter the style I fly.... It is ALWAYS my fault
So you do everything not to die, ergo, run like the wind until you hold all the cards and even more?
Thats a respectable behaviour, doesnt matter what you fly...
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Not all the cards.
I don't care having all the cards or not. I care about not having cards.
:salute
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So you do everything not to die, ergo, run like the wind until you hold all the cards and even more?
Thats a respectable behaviour, doesnt matter what you fly...
He is saying he doesn't make excuses when he dies. Or at least thats what it looks like to me.
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nm nm im just being a dk