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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 02:11:59 PM

Title: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 02:11:59 PM
So, working from home today...new job allows me to do so 3 days a week...and I'm on a conference call...my computer fan starts making a lot of racket so I mute the call, pop the side off, and grab the canned air...can't quite reach the fan, so not thinking I point thenozzleupwards, thus releasing the liquid...no, the cold didnthurt the computer, but aparrently something was hot enough to ignite the damn liquid/gas...big bellybutton fireball shoots out of my PC...it immediately went out gut left behind a horrible smell, and caused me some lung irritation...still coughing up gunk from it....needless to say,I will NOT be using that crap any more..and I advise noone else to do so either..
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Shuffler on October 04, 2012, 02:24:04 PM
So, working from home today...new job allows me to do so 3 days a week...and I'm on a conference call...my computer fan starts making a lot of racket so I mute the call, pop the side off, and grab the canned air...can't quite reach the fan, so not thinking I point thenozzleupwards, thus releasing the liquid...no, the cold didnthurt the computer, but aparrently something was hot enough to ignite the damn liquid/gas...big bellybutton fireball shoots out of my PC...it immediately went out gut left behind a horrible smell, and caused me some lung irritation...still coughing up gunk from it....needless to say,I will NOT be using that crap any more..and I advise noone else to do so either..

Canned air for electronics is fine if used correctly. Lucky you did not catch something on fire. :)
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 02:26:24 PM
Canned air for electronics is fine if used correctly. Lucky you did not catch something on fire. :)

Yea, it was definitely a bonehead move, and not one I will repeat...glad no fire, this lung and throat irritation is bad enough....that's OK though, gave me an excuse to finish working from my deck :-)

Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Shuffler on October 04, 2012, 02:27:41 PM
Yea, it was definitely a bonehead move, and not one I will repeat...glad no fire, this lung and throat irritation is bad enough....that's OK though, gave me an excuse to finish working from my deck :-)



For the throat irritation I suggest a glass of milk.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 02:30:03 PM
For the throat irritation I suggest a glass of milk.

I'll give that a try, thanks..
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Rondar on October 04, 2012, 02:41:59 PM
I'll give that a try, thanks..

The man has a cough shuffler.  This requires cough medicine, and l,m sure a.stressful situation, and is recuperating at home.  Dewars or jack daniels should be appropriate.   :cheers:
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 02:42:40 PM
For the throat irritation I suggest a glass of milk.

Thanks Shuff,
Milk helped quite a bit
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 02:43:14 PM
The man has a cough shuffler.  This requires cough medicine, and l,m sure a.stressful situation, and is recuperating at home.  Dewars or jack daniels should be appropriate.   :cheers:

Maybe some Jaeger?
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: WYOKIDIII on October 04, 2012, 04:02:52 PM
Good thing he used air instead of heat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=audxGqo5AkQ
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: 100Coogn on October 04, 2012, 04:53:59 PM
Why is there liquid in canned air?   :headscratch:

Coogan
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Motherland on October 04, 2012, 05:10:29 PM
Why is there liquid in canned air?   :headscratch:

Coogan


(http://www.achrnews.com/NEWS/2003/40/Files/Images/91390.jpg)

Phase changes aren't just a function of temperature but of temperature and pressure.

Increasing pressure [Y axis] at constant temperature makes substances go from gas to liquid to solid. This chart is for CO2 but a (halo)alkane like from what I understand 'canned air' is is going to look the same, just with different values.

p.s. chemistry is the best science
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Shuffler on October 04, 2012, 05:14:17 PM
Thanks Shuff,
Milk helped quite a bit

Milk coats. It is also suggested for folks who eat a hot pepper and can't handle it.

Glad to hear you got some relief.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: 100Coogn on October 04, 2012, 05:20:50 PM
That there is a darned good answer Motherland.
Now that I think about it, I've noticed moisture sometimes coming from my air compressor.

Coogan

Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Shuffler on October 04, 2012, 05:24:08 PM
That there is a darned good answer Motherland.
Now that I think about it, I've noticed moisture sometimes coming from my air compressor.

Coogan



It is the reason you have a drain on the bottom of your aircompressor tank. Every so often you need to open it so the water can drain out.

You must have seen the tank trucks on the road with the sign "Liquid Nitrogen" on them. They are pressurized. Should the tank leak, you would see a fog around it as it goes to gaseous state.

I have a large tank out back for our laser.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: G0ALY on October 04, 2012, 05:28:40 PM
And THAT is why I clean my computer by removing the cover and using an electric leaf blower.

Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Motherland on October 04, 2012, 05:34:22 PM
That there is a darned good answer Motherland.
Now that I think about it, I've noticed moisture sometimes coming from my air compressor.

Coogan


Yup, probably condensed water vapor more than anything else.
Water's a really cool substance, the difference in electronegativity between oxygen and hydrogen produces some weird physical results.

(http://serc.carleton.edu/images/research_education/equilibria/h2o_phase_diagram_-_color.v2.jpg)

You'll notice that the solid-liquid barrier points the left (unlike the right like CO2 and most other substances). This is because ice is less dense than water due to the polarity of the molecule, which is... I don't know, it's special. The vast majority of other substances have solid states that are denser than their liquid states.

Also my can of air says that it contains difluoroethane so there's probably some pretty nasty fluorine compounds (hydrofluoric acid? did it sting?) coming out of that combustion.

Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 05:58:07 PM
Didn't sting so much as irritate the crap out of my throat and lungs...it was definitely not fun...and the pungent odor made me get the heck out in a hurry!  Even held breath when I went back in to open the windows..still feel sore throat... and yea, it has diflourethane in it...
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Pigslilspaz on October 04, 2012, 06:19:43 PM
I'm a derp and didn't do all my research, disregard.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 06:26:16 PM
I personally posted it several places today, including here, rcgroups.com, ohioriders.net and assfaultjunkies.com, as wee as Facebook.  The portion that burned was difluorethane, per the can stating that was among its contents.  I assure you this DID happen today, as unlikely as it may be.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Pigslilspaz on October 04, 2012, 06:29:25 PM
I personally posted it several places today, including here, rcgroups.com, ohioriders.net and assfaultjunkies.com, as wee as Facebook.  The portion that burned was difluorethane, per the can stating that was among its contents.  I assure you this DID happen today, as unlikely as it may be.

Hmm, saw it from one of my friends on Facebook, and he's a pilot. By any chance, care to say where you're from?
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 06:32:03 PM
Hmm, saw it from one of my friends on Facebook, and he's a pilot. By any chance, care to say where you're from?

Milford, Ohio.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Pigslilspaz on October 04, 2012, 06:33:32 PM
Milford, Ohio.
Definitely not him then, lol. Do you know a guy named James Hewlett?
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 04, 2012, 06:36:34 PM
Can't say that I do...  I have some ah guys on Facebook but dunno if you are one of them...my profile puc is me standing by a piper Cherokee 180, if that helps any?
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Seanaldinho on October 04, 2012, 06:39:01 PM
p.s. chemistry is the best science

I beg to differ.  :)
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: CAP1 on October 04, 2012, 08:06:21 PM
It is the reason you have a drain on the bottom of your aircompressor tank. Every so often you need to open it so the water can drain out.

You must have seen the tank trucks on the road with the sign "Liquid Nitrogen" on them. They are pressurized. Should the tank leak, you would see a fog around it as it goes to gaseous state.

I have a large tank out back for our laser.

 and hopefully, you've got water separators in the lines.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Nypsy on October 05, 2012, 08:56:09 AM
and hopefully, you've got water separators in the lines.

Years ago on my 1980 Rabbit I had a slow leak in one tire. I just kept putting air into it for about 6 months thru the summer. Then one cold day in December the damn thing was vibrating so bad I could not drive it.All the water vapor from the repeated air re-fills had frozen. I was forced to pull that tire off the wheel, must have had a quart of frozen water in that tire.

Modern cars with pressure sensors need really dry air to protect those sensors from corrosion. I have heard of guys who are now filling their tires with nitrogen to avoid water problems from gas station air pumps.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: gyrene81 on October 05, 2012, 09:12:42 AM
 :rofl  i almost blew my gas stove up using some of that canned air to blow debris from the burner, i didn't turn off the pilot lights...after i cleaned up the mess, i looked at the label and the propellant was some sort of flammable "something something...ane".  :uhoh

that's when i got lot more picky. tried this and it was worth the cost...
http://www.amazon.com/Stoner-STO-94203-3-E-z-Gust-3-Pack/dp/B005LR45YE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_2 (http://www.amazon.com/Stoner-STO-94203-3-E-z-Gust-3-Pack/dp/B005LR45YE/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_2)
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on October 05, 2012, 09:59:36 AM
and hopefully, you've got water separators in the lines.

Water separator in LN2 lines?  :lol
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on October 05, 2012, 10:00:13 AM
Didn't sting so much as irritate the crap out of my throat and lungs...it was definitely not fun...and the pungent odor made me get the heck out in a hurry!  Even held breath when I went back in to open the windows..still feel sore throat... and yea, it has diflourethane in it...

Just admit it you were HUFFING it! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,1-Difluoroethane
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Slate on October 05, 2012, 10:53:15 AM
   Unplug those electrical devices when cleaning.  :old:

  Since we are into diagrams here is a proper cleaning technique.

(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii86/pederson12/toilet3619y.jpg)
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: VonMessa on October 05, 2012, 11:00:57 AM
  Unplug those electrical devices when cleaning.  :old:

  Since we are into diagrams here is a proper cleaning technique.

(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii86/pederson12/toilet3619y.jpg)

Toilet bong?
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: CAP1 on October 05, 2012, 11:23:20 AM
Water separator in LN2 lines?  :lol
no...in air lines snappy.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Slate on October 05, 2012, 12:16:32 PM
Toilet bong?


  Believe it or not it is supposed to be a way to get oxygen if you're trapped in a fire so you don't inhale smoke.
  Where you get the hose from I don't know shower maybe?  :headscratch:
 
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Shuffler on October 05, 2012, 12:44:03 PM
  Believe it or not it is supposed to be a way to get oxygen if you're trapped in a fire so you don't inhale smoke.
  Where you get the hose from I don't know shower maybe?  :headscratch:
 

Looks like a way to release flamable gases into your restoom.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: gyrene81 on October 05, 2012, 01:09:08 PM
  Believe it or not it is supposed to be a way to get oxygen if you're trapped in a fire so you don't inhale smoke.
  Where you get the hose from I don't know shower maybe?  :headscratch:
imagine living in a first floor apartment of a multi-story building and doing that...  :eek:   :huh   :uhoh   :bolt:
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Sol75 on October 05, 2012, 08:32:54 PM
In all seriousness, This was completely my lack of attention that caused this, however, there is one point I want to make.  aside from the fire itself, there was another way this could have dgone badly.. 

After doing some research, difluorethanemia, the "air" in some canned air is, highly flammable, as well as having another nasty quality... when it burns, it produces hydrogen fluoride, and carbon fluoride.

hydrogen fluoride, when exposed to water..such as the moisture in your lungs, forms hdrofuoric acid...which as you can imagine is NOT good for your lungs.  in addition, the carbonyl fluoride decomposes into what is basically phosgene..yes, like the chemical weapon...

had I not evacuated that room as rapidly as I did, the outcome could have been very bad..

my point is, while this was totally my fault, it was just a moment of inattention, which could have had fatal consequences.
PLEASE if you are using canned air, make sure it is a brand which  DOES NOT use difluorethane...there are a lot if other options out there...  remember, no matter what, accidents DO happen, and I do not want to see anyone injured by this stuff.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: CAP1 on October 05, 2012, 11:49:59 PM
In all seriousness, This was completely my lack of attention that caused this, however, there is one point I want to make.  aside from the fire itself, there was another way this could have dgone badly.. 

After doing some research, difluorethanemia, the "air" in some canned air is, highly flammable, as well as having another nasty quality... when it burns, it produces hydrogen fluoride, and carbon fluoride.

hydrogen fluoride, when exposed to water..such as the moisture in your lungs, forms hdrofuoric acid...which as you can imagine is NOT good for your lungs.  in addition, the carbonyl fluoride decomposes into what is basically phosgene..yes, like the chemical weapon...

had I not evacuated that room as rapidly as I did, the outcome could have been very bad..

my point is, while this was totally my fault, it was just a moment of inattention, which could have had fatal consequences.
PLEASE if you are using canned air, make sure it is a brand which  DOES NOT use difluorethane...there are a lot if other options out there...  remember, no matter what, accidents DO happen, and I do not want to see anyone injured by this stuff.

 are your lungs/throat still irritated?


 also...thank you for posting this. i always assumed that stuff was perfectly safe.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: VonMessa on October 08, 2012, 10:03:45 AM
I always unplug and take it outside...
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on October 08, 2012, 10:15:27 AM
I always unplug and take it outside...

I always carry the thing to the garage and give it a good spray with the good ole compressor :)

That trick about inhaling from the sewers airlock seems kinda fishy. The air in sewers is typically think with methane and other suer gases that not only smell bad but are harmful, perhaps harmful enough to make you lose consciousness.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: OOZ662 on October 12, 2012, 05:34:15 AM
Just as a somewhat late note here, it's always a good idea to lock the fans in place with string or a wiretie or what-have-you before firing high speed gasses at them. As fun as it is, to watch them spin up real fast and fling dust everywhere, electric motors turn into generators when turned. Saves your motherboard having to deal with the voltage (one assumes most have a diode in the way to make that moot, but who knows with some of the things rolling out of China) and reduces wear on the bearings.
Also, if you look behind the sticker on most computer fans, you'll find a small hole for putting a drop of oil in if they need it.
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Bizman on October 12, 2012, 11:24:59 AM
I've been using canned air for over a decade without problems. The trick is to use nonflammable canned air for electronic devices. Alright, the price may be triple so go cheap if you like to fry your bacon...
Title: Re: canned air, a warning
Post by: Motherland on October 12, 2012, 12:44:48 PM
Funny... the least harmful 'duster gas' when burned is butane... but it's also by far the most flammable, to the point where it's not used anymore.
Difluoroethane is significantly less flammable but if it does burn it's obviously a lot more harmful.
Tetrafluoroethane, which is sometimes used, is almost completely non-flammable but is extremely harmful in a lot of other ways.