Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: USRanger on October 12, 2012, 11:17:52 PM

Title: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: USRanger on October 12, 2012, 11:17:52 PM
I cannot believe this is happening.  I am truly heartbroken. :(

http://weaponsman.com/?p=2814
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: jimson on October 12, 2012, 11:32:13 PM
Well that's the real problem. Not they welcome women, but that they have to modify their standards in order to do so.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: shotgunneeley on October 13, 2012, 12:19:16 AM
Truly respect women wanting to do their part to serve their country just like any male soldier, but standards are standards. Just using the Rangers because of the OP but this goes for any outfit: in order to succeed as a team you've got to be able to trust each of your teammates (in this case with your life) to perform. If they can't complete the demands expected of male Rangers, then I'd say "too bad".
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: Plawranc on October 13, 2012, 12:38:49 AM
I think Women in the front-line , and especially women in the front-line Elite. Is a very very good thing.

THAT, being said. The idea, that you would lower standards to admit more members, destroys the whole point of being a Ranger.

The Rangers are the Rangers, if you can't run 50 miles without sweating, kill 20 men single-handedly and then hold the position you took from those men for a week. Then you shouldn't be a Ranger. Its what they are trained for, its what they do, and any drop in TRAINING standards, will exponentially damage their combat standards.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: madhogg on October 13, 2012, 12:51:01 AM
Effing WoW!  I dont like that, but thinking about it, in ww2 Russia had some fierce female snipers. I would allow them in ARMY sniper school but not as Rangers or much less Green Berets. Green Berets are truly the best warriors in the world, even when there are no wars, Green Berets are still conducting top secret combat missions that you will hear about 40 years from now on the military ch.
 :salute All Green Berets
 :salute Delta Force
 :salute Rangers
 :salute Paratroopers
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: MarineUS on October 13, 2012, 01:00:28 AM
I think Women in the front-line , and especially women in the front-line Elite. Is a very very good thing.
Until they end up being P.O.W.'s - they won't just be beaten...
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: Stalwart on October 13, 2012, 01:01:54 AM
If SHE can't carry HIM off the battlefield, she shouldn't be there.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: Motherland on October 13, 2012, 01:21:02 AM
(http://www.badassoftheweek.com/litvak2.jpg)
(http://www.gpforums.co.nz/attachment.php?s=&postid=4676864)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li9yknIcIu1qct7n1o1_400.jpg)

Lowering standards is another thing altogether
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: Volron on October 13, 2012, 01:22:01 AM
I'm not against women being Elite's, not by a long shot.  One can only hope the dangers of being in said spot are well known to them, because as Marine pointed out, if they are captured, they won't just be beaten.


That being said, lowering the standards in this particular case will only accomplish one thing, getting others killed.  They will likely still be tasked with the same goals as their earlier, more well trained comrades.  Since they are lowering the standard, one must question if they can continued to be called Elites.  I am not talking about those who were trained prior to the standard drop mind you.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: DaveJ on October 13, 2012, 01:24:48 AM
This is absolutely absurd. Cannot believe it.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: Plawranc on October 13, 2012, 01:30:02 AM
Any of you who have been married, or had a girlfriend as tough and stubborn as mine.

KNOW

That a woman is a more terrifying enemy than anything this Earth.... then you give her a weapon.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: RedBull1 on October 13, 2012, 01:30:55 AM
I am in no way against any woman being in the Military, I think it's a great thing, however ladies I don't care who you are, if you can not complete the standards we have/they have to be lowered for you - you should not be there and it will likely cost us lives in the long run because they are unable to pull a casualty out, or unable to pull themselves over a wall etc. etc. etc.

Rangers are supposed to be the best of the best, Elitists ...

Come on Rangers, really?  sigh
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: Stalwart on October 13, 2012, 01:40:54 AM
Any of you who have been married, or had a girlfriend as tough and stubborn as mine.

KNOW

That a woman is a more terrifying enemy than anything this Earth.... then you give her a weapon.

Didn't the Israeli Army prove women are effective, and even ferocious in combat?   I certainly don't doubt it.

But STANDARDS are another matter entirely.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: MarineUS on October 13, 2012, 01:42:45 AM
If SHE can't carry HIM off the battlefield, she shouldn't be there.
:aok
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: guncrasher on October 13, 2012, 01:50:39 AM
I cannot believe this is happening.  I am truly heartbroken. :(

http://weaponsman.com/?p=2814

for the sake of truth can you post a link to the actual standards and not to a website that has it's own interpretations of what they are?  I mean everybody should be measured by the same standard, but I just wonder what the actual new policy is.

when I joined in 89  I heard other marines how the standards were lower than whey they joined.  I still have some friends that have served and retired and they talked about how the standards have been lowered since they joined.  every generation of servicemen always think that the new generation has a lower standard to meet.


semp
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: bj229r on October 13, 2012, 07:25:39 AM
What's the weight of a Ranger field pack...110 pounds or something? My wife WEIGHS 125 (she'll tell you 115...)
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: RngFndr on October 13, 2012, 07:37:00 AM
for the sake of truth can you post a link to the actual standards and not to a website that has it's own interpretations of what they are?  I mean everybody should be measured by the same standard, but I just wonder what the actual new policy is.

when I joined in 89  I heard other marines how the standards were lower than whey they joined.  I still have some friends that have served and retired and they talked about how the standards have been lowered since they joined.  every generation of servicemen always think that the new generation has a lower standard to meet.


semp

It's true!
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: cpxxx on October 13, 2012, 07:53:50 AM
Has no one thought to ask the potential female candidates for Rangers school what they think? I suspect the very last thing most of them would want is a lowering of standards. I suspect it's tough enough being a woman in the military without handing out ammunition to opponents of women soldiers by deliberately dropping standards to get them to pass. No woman wearing a Rangers patch will ever earn the respect of her fellow soldiers if they believe she was fast tracked through the course even if in fact she was top of her class in every respect.

I also think it's hugely insulting to women in general. Essentially the army is saying. 'We think women will never make it through the training. So we'll lower the standards to get you through.' It's effectively sexism.

A big mistake.

Women were and are discriminated against in general for many jobs and activities. Trying to change that is fine. But this would have the opposite effect.

Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on October 13, 2012, 09:09:34 AM
Until they end up being P.O.W.'s - they won't just be beaten...

And what makes you think male P.O.W.'s will only get beaten?  :noid
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: gyrene81 on October 13, 2012, 10:18:35 AM
 :lol  very glad i was never in the army...still have to agree that lowering standards is not the way to maintain a fighting force. it's not like there is a shortage of people.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: R 105 on October 13, 2012, 11:01:56 AM
They lowered standards in Police and Fire Departments for decades now. It didn't effect the Police as much as the Fire Departments. While we ended up with low end recruits coming into our ranks at the PD. The Fire folks had women coming into their fire crews who could barely stand up of all their bang gear on. I saw first hand at the fire school these women could not clime a lander with a hose roll and the male recruits were instructed carry it for them.

 These same female fireman would not be able to carry out their partner in they needed to. At the Police academies we had instructors stand in the next firing station and shoot the targets of some female recruits just to qualify them at the range. I worked with some fine female Cops but many of them would not be in law enforcement if they were held to the same standards they held the male officers to. The Military police and Fire Departments are no place for left wing social experiments.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: MarineUS on October 13, 2012, 02:22:52 PM
And what makes you think male P.O.W.'s will only get beaten?  :noid
Lol trust me, that thought went through my mind.

----

They lowered standards in Police and Fire Departments for decades now. It didn't effect the Police as much as the Fire Departments. While we ended up with low end recruits coming into our ranks at the PD. The Fire folks had women coming into their fire crews who could barely stand up of all their bang gear on. I saw first hand at the fire school these women could not clime a lander with a hose roll and the male recruits were instructed carry it for them.

 These same female fireman would not be able to carry out their partner in they needed to. At the Police academies we had instructors stand in the next firing station and shoot the targets of some female recruits just to qualify them at the range. I worked with some fine female Cops but many of them would not be in law enforcement if they were held to the same standards they held the male officers to. The Military police and Fire Departments are no place for left wing social experiments.

A very true statement at the end and I've seen some stuff pretty close to the stories you shared.

I always hated with we had to team up with female Marines on the fire and movement courses because

1. A lot of them slowed us down

2. Most of them missed their targets.

3. They didn't dive into the dirt....they just kind of...idk? Slowly got on their knees and laid down?

4. No muzzle control.

NOW, with that being said; I'm not sexist. We had a SSgt get saved by a female manning a 240 on top of a Humvee in Iraq. IF and only IF they meet the requirements that make our military successful in the battlefield should they be allowed to be on the front.
Title: Re: Ranger School welcomes women, drops standards
Post by: Rich46yo on October 13, 2012, 02:41:54 PM
There are certainly woman tough enough to be Rangers but will they be the ONLY ones chosen? Certainly they are as smart and as capable as men. The problem is there is always a weakening of standards with this type of thing. I saw it in the USAF SPs and I saw it in Police Dept.s. I couldnt imagine not having the girls on the job. At the same time I also saw the loosening of standards to get them on in large numbers.

The Rangers are an elite combat unit. This is something entirely different, and on a different level. I dont think this decision was well thought out.