Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: tuton25 on October 18, 2012, 07:17:53 PM
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Maybe at 10,000 feet there could be a gusty wind???
The point of this is that medium bobmers down low would be used more
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There used to be wind until the whines were so loud that HiTech couldn't get any sleep and he removed the wind.
ack-ack
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There used to be wind until the whines were so loud that HiTech couldn't get any sleep and he removed the wind.
ack-ack
I remember the whining being from fighter guys because it threw their aim off when they dove through it in an attack run on an enemy.
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There used to be wind until the whines were so loud that HiTech couldn't get any sleep and he removed the wind.
ack-ack
Well, that blows! (pun intended :rofl)
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Instead of wind (which IMO wouldn't be a bad thing), bring back full manual calibration like is sometimes used in Special Events and the AvA arena. That would introduce some bit of inaccuracy and require a new skill to be learned. :aok
One problem with wind is that no matter which direction you have it blowing, one side will be basically be flying into it while another side is with it. You will hear complaints that "those guys" have an unfair advantage due to the wind.
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maybe your calibrated speed could be an interval, anywhere from indicated to true speed, so the higher you are the less accurate your bombs become.
I just hate it when bombers have lasser guided presion
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First off, I think adding manual calibration would be good for the simmers and not good for the gamers. It would lengthen the learning curve quite a bit. I can see either way.
Secondly, I agree that currently it is far too easy to be accurate while level bombing. There are simply no variables the bombardier needs to worry about other than giving the bomber barely enough time to calibrate and then let loose the dogs of war. The challenge is minimal, really.
Thirdly, I've been advocating for HTC to make carpet bombing more of a norm than it currently is. Actually, I rarely see it used now. The reason carpet bombing was used in WWII was the need to saturate an area to more guarantee the target was damaged as desired. Keep in mind the pilots had to deal with winds and up drafts, there was no such thing as perfect level and straight flight like we are afforded in AH. Keep in mind that bombardiers had to content with cross winds and an ever shifting plane, too. It was no picnic and it certainly was no where as easy as it is in AH. Bombing in AH is very luxurious in comparison. On that note, I'm not suggesting HTC take away auto pilot, etc, but a cross wind or a built in gradual "spread" penalty depending on altitude would go along ways in lending to more "realism", per say.
Why not a 5mph cross wind above 10k, 8mph at 15k, and 10mph above 20k???
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There was a time when carpet bombing (or at least a form of it) was mandated in AH. At the end of Beta and through (if i remember correctly) at least tour 17 where you could not drop single bombs from the heavy bombers. I can't remember if it was 2 or 4 bomb minimums that you had to drop in your salvo. Can't speak after tour 17, i took a hiatus of 10+ years.
I didn't spend as much time flying back then as I had in WB and I recall that the knowledge of what and why to bomb stuff wasn't widely known so I can't tell you how much of an issue it was. I do remember thinking that it really crippled the bomber guys at the time as it made us waste many more bombs. Seems objects were scattered more so you were less likely to hit multiple objects with a drop.
I do remember carpet bombing in WB, since we could impact the runways we used it to keep fighters and ack-stars down while trying to take bases but that trying to determine the correct delay you wanted was always a pain. I would use it more here but we don't have a way (or I just have not found it) to toggle salvo without having to do a .salvo in mid bomb run changing it.
if you want more realism add random turbulence but don't just add it for bombers, add it for all aircraft. it will, at times, add variability to the bomb drop but we already have dispersion modeled so I don't know how noticeable it will be. A more noticeable change might be a random delay in drops of the drones, talking 0.0 to 0.3 seconds delay here as a guess.
I don't know if the turbulence could be coded in a "fair" manor if it was per FE and not based on arena settings/locations. If FE based you could have a case where someone was bouncing on their FE but the person shooting them saw them not moving and vice verse. Secondly from a trailing FE it might be seen as warping/stick stirring from a shooters FE. Again as we have dispersion modeled on the guns as well as bombs I don't think anything but large bouts of turbulence would make that much effect on most peoples gunnery.
shdo
p.s. bombing isn't as easy as portrayed in this thread. I've seen people miss most of a town and be congratulated on how well they bombed. And watching the people who do the congratulations bomb I had to agree that even hitting the town was pretty darn good.
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Secondly, I agree that currently it is far too easy to be accurate while level bombing. There are simply no variables the bombardier needs to worry about other than giving the bomber barely enough time to calibrate...
... and a good fight (there's that "F"-word again) :eek: between the bombers attacking the target and the enemy intercepting the bombers and escorts. It is, in fact, quite a challenge and enough of a "variable" to make it interesting to say the least.
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On that note, I'm not suggesting HTC take away auto pilot, etc, but a cross wind or a built in gradual "spread" penalty depending on altitude would go along ways in lending to more "realism", per say.
Why not a 5mph cross wind above 10k, 8mph at 15k, and 10mph above 20k???
the typical bomber pilot in this game is so ineffective as is, I dont see why anyone would want to make it harder for them.
when it takes 8 sets of lancs two passes to kill 4 vh's at a vbase... ya know... :huh
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the are really that bad???
I can drop all the hangers by myself in 3-4 passes in lancs
The research I have done says that Large bombers (B-17's) were used for carpet mombing wereas medium and light bombers were used for specision targetd
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the are really that bad???
certainly seems so.. watch any group of more than 3 sets of buffs, and targets will either be missed, or doubled or tripled up on..
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hows about a choice of manual calibration or the ez mode for the less accurate bomber drivers. More points awarded for hitting a target with the old fashioned calibration on.
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hows about a choice of manual calibration or the ez mode for the less accurate bomber drivers. More points awarded for hitting a target with the old fashioned calibration on.
+1 for this. make it like the check box for tracers, make it a conscious choice before the mission and make it overridden by arena settings.
shdo
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the typical bomber pilot in this game is so ineffective as is, I dont see why anyone would want to make it harder for them.
when it takes 8 sets of lancs two passes to kill 4 vh's at a vbase... ya know... :huh
Perhaps a group of players not fully versed in the ways of level bombing??? There is a trainer's website for that stuff, right? oh wait.....
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Number of attackers is inversely proportionate to the results. Even if individual players know what they are doing, the problem of coordination reduces efficiency. It takes a lot of additional skill and practice for a squad to retain nearly the same efficiency when attacking as a group instead of attacking individually.
One example would be the giant Bish strat raid yesterday. There were a lot of experienced bomber pilots in that group, yet the same damage level to the strats could have been achieved by just 2 players in B-29s.
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A lot of bombers are flown by new players (my observation at least). If level bombing will become too difficult, or even a little difficult, bombers will be used to dive bomb. We have been there before. If some mechanic is to be enforced to lower accuracy, bomb release from F3 view and at steep angles should be disabled as well to prevent dive bombing with the heavies.
The problem in terms of gameplay is not the absolute accuracy, but the accuracy for very high alts. A bomber that takes the time to climb to 30k is nearly guaranteed to hit his target. This is how porking of ammo/dar/troops is easily done across the front. No defender wastes his time to patrol at 30k in the hope of running into a random bomber formation, except perhaps near the big strats when close to the front. Random furballers will not have the time to climb and catch it when starting when the bombers are spotted and announced on range channel. So for bombers, success is just a matter of (boring) time investment. Bringing in the bombers at 20k or less requires coordination with fighter escorts/sweepers or large formations. New players do not do that and neither most of the experienced ones.
The problem with the wind sheer suggestion is that the way it is implemented in AH is a step function. When crossing the boundary, the airspeed instantly jumps by XXX mph, which is not good. If a wind layer is to be implemented, the speed needs to be built up gradually over a couple of kft. The other problem is that a static wind direction becomes an advantage to the country that is upwind, thus affecting map balance.
I see the solution somewhere in the realm of accuracy. I dont mind if a righteous bombardier can drop his bomb through the eye of a needle from 15k - I do mind when he can still do it from 25+ kft up.
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The thing is that the 4 engine heavy bombers wern't used for target raids that they are used for in the game. Medium bombers were used for things like killing hangers and such.
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The thing is that the 4 engine heavy bombers wern't used for target raids that they are used for in the game. Medium bombers were used for things like killing hangers and such.
8th AF B-17 bombing raid on a German airfield.
(http://www.topdesignmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b17_8thaf_germany.sized_.jpg)
ack-ack
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8th AF B-17 bombing raid on a German airfield.
(http://www.topdesignmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b17_8thaf_germany.sized_.jpg)
ack-ack
must be photoshopped cause they missed the runway and it was right there....... :noid
shdo
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First off carpet bombing is way different than what you are talking about. The term used was area bombing and by late 43 on it was used extensivley. All targets had a 1000 meter circle drawn around them and only a few bombers per formation calibrated the drop. The rest of the formation would drop on the leads drop. A good drop was over 60% of the bombs dropped hitting within that circle. Another term was saturation bombing in which the target area was literally saturated by the bombs ensuring ( hopefully) the targets destruction. The reasons why this was all done was because the precision bombing of targets was just not working as planned. Area bombing was taken up to ensure a larger margine of error. Carpet bombing is the act of using the bombers to create a rolling barrage along a narrow corridor of terrain typically used in France during the battles in the hedgerows. It was done at very low altitudes to take into account they were usually bombing in front of the Allied lines so accuracy as to the start of the drop was ensured even still only small swaths could be bombed that way.
Carpet bombing would be nice if every plane carried 40 500 lbers like the 29's but they don't. Area bombing works on area targets like the strats where you have a large concentration of targets within a confined space it does not work on an airfield in the game due to the dispersal of targets. Any changes in bombing would have to take that into account and really how could it? I can say that area bombing does work in this game as I have used it with several groups of bombers and am actually using it in the current scenario DGSII. It works well when done right. So IMO unless you up the amount of drones in a flight then you are just plain gonna make it to hard and not worth even hitting fields at all with bombers and ensuring that less folks even bother..