Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: icepac on October 30, 2012, 10:35:26 AM
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(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8054/8138659208_e3ebfafaf6_b.jpg)
One second later...........he earns his "V".
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8193/8138627761_8e41b23da2_b.jpg)
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Wow. Thanks for wasting my time. :aok
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I think its a rant against bomb & bail types
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I am a 'play how you want' type person in most cases, but people who bail from their buffs after dropping just to get up again sooner irk me mightily for some reason.
Wiley.
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Had he bailed as soon as he finished dropping his bombs, then I would consider it a "bomb and bail" but this wasn't.
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A bomber without bombs is not a threat so who cares if they bail?
If you're going to complain about something, complain about wasting your time chasing empty bombers!
If you knew they already dropped you should have started hunting someplace else.
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LOL.....sure dude.....I will immediately break off my attack when they drop even with a 200 mph closure speed.
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ya bomb and bailers is definitely lame :aok
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2.5k... that's 3 proxies wtg.
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Does it ***really*** surprise anyone??? The player, the unit?
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A whine has been recorded
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Does it ***really*** surprise anyone??? The player, the unit?
Nope. No surprise, but I think it's good to see it exposed and discussed.
I don't mind people who never land because they just want to fight. But these guys with their suicide jabo-porking and bomb-and-bailing simply degrade the game experience more than anyone. They are truly are the lowest common denominator -- the worst of Aces High.
The irony is to read the recruiting posts from some vGuys with claims of them changing their ways. But sadly this is the way they play -- a suicide-bomber's approach, with little or no regard for landing or surviving. For most of them, that mind-set and their squad culture will not change. Their self-inflicted curse is that the better players, those looking for improvement and more of a challenge, will continue to leave them. In a way, more exposure of this does make these "whines" somewhat productive.
On the bright side, I found vDallas recently without his hordling meat-shield around him, and after shooting him down, got 20 minutes of PM crying about how I "wasted my time" going after him and how "horrible at flying" I am. What a laugh riot that was. So, occasionally their lack of character does bring some enjoyment to the game.
;)
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:huh :noid :ahand
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A bomber without bombs is not a threat so who cares if they bail?
If you're going to complain about something, complain about wasting your time chasing empty bombers!
If you knew they already dropped you should have started hunting someplace else.
You're assuming too many things.
A: Did the fighter know if the bombers are empty?
B: It terms of action/combat an aircraft is an aircraft and if it presents game play then why not??? This isn't a Micro$haft flight sim in which players just buzz around looking at gauges, terrain, etc. Engagement is the name of the game.
In terms of defending a hotly contested piece of terrain then sure, there are other targets that are more of a threat *if* those bombers have already dropped. But again, we can not assume the fighter pilot knows that at any point unless he saw the bombers actually drop all of the ordnance.
I think the negative attitude towards the bomb-n-bail types is completely warranted, *especially* if there is an opposing playing moving in to engage. Play it out! That is why we are all here to begin with.
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A bomber without bombs is not a threat so who cares if they bail?
If you're going to complain about something, complain about wasting your time chasing empty bombers!
If you knew they already dropped you should have started hunting someplace else.
Yeah, because no bombers were ever shot down in WWII on their return trip. [Now where's that sarcasm font?]
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Yeah, because no bombers were ever shot down in WWII on their return trip. [Now where's that sarcasm font?]
This isn't WWII though
It's a computer game
There are always people that will do whatever lame stuff they can get away with in computer games. Many different examples of this in AH...and it's never going to change
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There are always people that will do whatever lame stuff they can get away with in computer games. Many different examples of this in AH...and it's never going to change
Its like bunny hopping in the old FPS' if it give and edge and you can get away with it a few will. Bailing from bombers after dropping is nothing but lame If you dont want to fight it out why not just play for free against the computer?
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Its like bunny hopping in the old FPS' if it give and edge and you can get away with it a few will.
It's not really like that, because as you say bunny hopping gives you a slight edge. As you note below, bomber bailing doesn't get you anything.
Bailing from bombers after dropping is nothing but lame If you dont want to fight it out why not just play for free against the computer?
Because it makes people angry and provokes whine threads like this one
It's called griefing
If it's possible to do and it pisses people off, some people will do it. The only way to stop such sad behaviour is for the game designers to do something to prevent it, which isn't going to happen in this case.
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It's not really like that, because as you say bunny hopping gives you a slight edge. As you note below, bomber bailing doesn't get you anything.
Yes, it does, you are able to fly twice as many bomber sorties to your target, because you are gaining the time it would take to RTB. That is exploiting the game design to your favor.
Because it makes people angry and provokes whine threads like this one
It's called griefing
I don't think pointing out griefing players (or even just poor game etiquette) to the rest of the community is a "whine thread".
If it's possible to do and it pisses people off, some people will do it. The only way to stop such sad behaviour is for the game designers to do something to prevent it, which isn't going to happen in this case.
This is precisely why such things should be exposed to the rest of the community.
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What's lame is low alt kamilancstuka base taking bailers or spawn sweepers. I consider it the prerogative of a strat runner to bail if after flying for an hour he gets swarmed and just feels like giving it up and catching his bus. Sometimes I get the impression that fighter pilots think that bomber pilots are upping for them and owe them something. It's a two way street, if guys weren't willing to fly for 50 minutes with a good chance of a disappointing ending fighter planes would miss out. All that said I view every bomb sortie as a chance to practice gunnery so I don't really see the point of bailing with working guns let alone an intact formation.
I'll tell you what's lame, getting attacked in a bomber by the same guy over and over untill your out of ammo and then getting saluted. By over and over I mean 3 or 4 lives reupping along your flight path.
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It's not really like that, because as you say bunny hopping gives you a slight edge. As you note below, bomber bailing doesn't get you anything.
I was refering to the people doing lame things in a game. Bunny hopping is lame as is bomberbailing, I didn't even think about the fact they can fly twice as many raids(since I will bail from cap to go get a goon or comeback with ords I am guilty of being lame in this aswelll)
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What's lame is low alt kamilancstuka base taking bailers or spawn sweepers. I consider it the prerogative of a strat runner to bail if after flying for an hour he gets swarmed and just feels like giving it up and catching his bus. Sometimes I get the impression that fighter pilots think that bomber pilots are upping for them and owe them something. It's a two way street, if guys weren't willing to fly for 50 minutes with a good chance of a disappointing ending fighter planes would miss out.
Agreed. Good points.
This is probably why bombers get drones, rather good speed and defensive capability, and over-modeled bomb accuracy. Otherwise, nobody would do it. That said though, a good bomber pilot has a reasonable chance of making it home if they fly smart and shoot straight. I stink in bombers and still survive more often than not.
That said, I would never fly to a target I have no intention of RTBing from. Intentional one-way trips are just suicide dweebery. And it's this suicide-dweeb bailing that is being pointed out here.
:salute
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Yes, it does, you are able to fly twice as many bomber sorties to your target, because you are gaining the time it would take to RTB. That is exploiting the game design to your favor.
Where in the 'Rules and Commandments of Aces High' is it written that you have to RTB? :huh
Should I have to RTB my slightly damaged fighter plane for 5-10 minutes, up another one, fly another 5-10 minutes back to the fight? Or should I be able to crash my plane into the ground or bail out so that I can get back in the action quicker?
If we are at a fight that has died out, one of my squaddies will always land his plane before moving to a new field and a new fight, because he cares about realism (and score :P ). I will just bail out or crash my plane because I don't.
Maybe the b&ber just doesn't want to waste his gaming time flying back to base empty (zzzzzzz). Or maybe he's an innovator, and has figured out he can drop more ord / hour and have a more positive effect on the war effort (kinda the same way that someone bailing and re-upping a fighter to get where he needs to be can help it).
Or he's just a griefer as previously mentioned :D
I don't think pointing out griefing players (or even just poor game etiquette) to the rest of the community is a "whine thread".
Even using phrases like 'poor game etiquette' is a whine imo. Game etiquette exists solely in the minds of the players, when some people (like your bomb + bailers) don't give a toss about it then it is irrelevant.
But we can agree to disagree I guess :)
This is precisely why such things should be exposed to the rest of the community.
Yes, another circle jerk of more 'honourable' pilots roundly condemning someone who will never read, or care about, the comments made in this thread is just what the community needs to help combat this terrible problem!
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I consider it the prerogative of a strat runner to bail if after flying for an hour he gets swarmed and just feels like giving it up and catching his bus.
What's the point of playing online if that's what you're doing?
I'll tell you what's lame, getting attacked in a bomber by the same guy over and over untill your out of ammo and then getting saluted. By over and over I mean 3 or 4 lives reupping along your flight path.
...So you'd prefer he left you alone to fly in peace? Again, why play online?
Wiley.
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Where in the 'Rules and Commandments of Aces High' is it written that you have to RTB? :huh
Should I have to RTB my slightly damaged fighter plane for 5-10 minutes, up another one, fly another 5-10 minutes back to the fight? Or should I be able to crash my plane into the ground or bail out so that I can get back in the action quicker?
There was no mention of "rules". I pointed out to you how bailing is exploiting the game design to his advantage, when you claimed there was none.
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OK fine :) Maybe bomb & bailing is like bunny hopping...or like rocket jumping in Quake1...or skiing in Tribes
An exploit of the game design for an advantage by innovative players, which starts out being frowned upon by purists but then becomes de rigeur for all players wishing to be competitive.
:aok
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2.5k... that's 3 proxies wtg.
No proximity kills were awarded.
Not a big fan of being awarded kills not earned anyway but I can see why it was implemented.
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double post
forum is a little glitchy today
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OK fine :) Maybe bomb & bailing is like bunny hopping...or like rocket jumping in Quake1...or skiing in Tribes
An exploit of the game design for an advantage by innovative players, which starts out being frowned upon by purists but then becomes de rigeur for all players wishing to be competitive.
I see your expectation has become that "all players wishing to be competitive" will resort to these types of exploits. Of course you know that isn't entirely true, because there still are plenty of "purists" and "more honourable" players that exist and will speak up, despite your mockery of them. Some of these are also quite competitive in the game.
The point of the discussion is the choice of which side you take, those who wish to point out questionable game play, or those who accept or even partake in it. That is what defines the game etiquette within the community. I'm sorry if your experiences have caused you to give up on the former and join the latter.
I guess I'm still one of those "purists" who should be made fun of. And so, yes, our expectations will differ.
:salute
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I see your expectation has become that "all players wishing to be competitive" will resort to these types of exploits.
Nah I'm just teasing, I know the AH community as a whole isn't really like that :) One of it's few redeeming features I guess, even if it does lead to a lot of 'x person doesn't play the way I want him to!' disagreements.
But still, there will always be people who HO and run, people who ack run as soon as they lose advantage, people who horde...and people who bomb and bail. They don't care whether we think they have poor etiquette or not :furious
And no amount of self righteous BBS threads will ever change that. Most of them don't even read the forum.
Of course you know that isn't entirely true
Indeed!
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...So you'd prefer he left you alone to fly in peace? Again, why play online?
Wiley.
Oh come on. If you run out of ammo on a long flight because the SAME guy keeps upping after you kill him, its not irritating when he kills your defenseless self? Its like having a snapshot where one side has one life and the other unlimited. My point about a 2 way street is that if it becomes insufferable for one side then the game stops, people can't just think that they play the game by themselves and the opponents are robots, its not a real war. You might make the argument that it is just the same as taking off from a capped field again and again, or reupping at a tank spawn again and again, but generally the odds are much more in favor of the already up and they can usually leave so I don't think it is.
I guess I would answer by saying that if I manage to kill a pilot that I would like to be left in peace by that pilot, for that bombing sortie. And I would say I play on line so that I can kill the other pilots and fly in peace. WISH DENIED.
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My point about a 2 way street is that if it becomes insufferable for one side then the game stops, people can't just think that they play the game by themselves and the opponents are robots, its not a real war.
No, it's not real war. It's a side based open world combat game. I consider most of the fun to be stopping the other side from doing what it is trying to do, while allowing my side to do what it is trying to do. I don't consider it fun when someone has a means of killing me and doesn't use it.
It's like playing chess with someone, and having them say, 'I could have made this move and ended the game, but instead I did this.' What's the point of doing that? If you're playing, play to win.
I guess I would answer by saying that if I manage to kill a pilot that I would like to be left in peace by that pilot, for that bombing sortie. And I would say I play on line so that I can kill the other pilots and fly in peace. WISH DENIED.
Yet if it were 4 different pilots, that would be swell? :headscratch:
*shrug* Just seems to me an odd thing to get angry over. A red plane's a red plane.
Wiley.
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So what would our game look like if Hitech were to agree with your collective need to control our collective behavior in the name of the collective dream of the ideal Aces High game play?
You always see words like collective, control, and behavior tossed about when a totalitarian minority wants to convice a majority to submit to them in the name of a utopian better way of participating in a community. Control and public shame seems to be the common denominator in pushing the less accomplished majority into compliance. Force shows up after it's too late to change your vote.
1. - Fighters refusing to fight, running away, and gang banging. The heart of community Social injustice and Ideal game play.
How would Hitech impose a function that determined if someone was running away from a fight with another player or players? Some amount of running is directly due to the tendancy of many fights becoming one versus many with no way to win. A blanket function that determins when you are at 1500yds of a red icon inbound and kills you if you move past 2500yds away of the nearest red icon giving that nearest icon your kill? Do you then request a similar function to kill your countrymen if they add themselves to your fight?
Does Hitech institute a referee corp like the trainers? Who have kill power, indestructability in any ride, ominous icon, with no country affiliation. Who simply look for runners and gangings? Then place their mouse on the offending icons and click you dead? Will these players be recruited by HTC anonymously, voted by the community, or chosen from the self identified best players of the best asking for all the rules in the first place? Why do elites always want rules and dire consiquences to control the happy masses??
Knowing how much we collectively are not boyscouts. Compliance is mandatory, fun is secondary to achieving the collective definitions of the long standing aggrieved ideals of proper game play. Everyone will accept that they may not be able to compete against a minority of superior proper minded players. That will be of no consiquece to to the anti running\hoarding function nor the referees. Learn to fight by the ideal standards or leave the game will be players only options by this point. But, for the superior few a buffet of red meat at all times in abstract theory.
2. - Gamey Bombers.
How do you force bombers to only fly missions in proscribed manners seen in WW2 film footage and archival research? Does Hitech create a kill function that causes the bombers to explode if bombs are dropped from unacceptable altitiudes or angle of attacks? Do players who bomb then bail get ejected from the game for 24 hours becasue they don't feel like RTBing or sitting still while someone chews up their bombers due to no ammo? Does the referee corp follow bombers around and use their death mouse click to force compliance?
3. - Spawn Camping and other precieved gamey GV infractions.
Here the referees should just drive around in jeeps and fly around in Storch watching everything while listening to all channels and reading all text and interdicting complaints or infranctions of a whole new set of standard GV combat rules. Death by mouse always one click away to solve lack of rule compliance.
4. - Gamey use of CV's.
Hitech can program so that CV's are restricted on each map to generalised areas so they cannot be hidden. Even place a map icon on all fleets seen by all countries. Then assign a referee to watch each CV with the ability to kill everything from the CV group down to individual gunners, LVT, PT and aircraft. Always keeping mind the referee can kill anything attacking the CV with the click of a mouse for infractions.
5. - Gamey strategies to capture feilds and bomb strats.
A list of accepted methods by WW2 historc standards as viewed in films and archival research will be posted and adhered to. All missions will be accompanied by a referee with mouse click kill authority for infranctions.
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Orrrrrrr.............
There are no rules to how you use the toys to have fun after paying your $14.95 other than profanity restrictions or attempts at introducing outside cheats into the game.
Kind of like free market capitolism versus central government controled socialism\totalitarianism that cultural elites always want to impose on the less talented irritating masses becasue they feel they know better how to live life. Some how there's always some form of a policing force needed to "FORCE" compliance, order, and dissapere inconvenient political pundants.
These complaints in here look like public shame is not working in the desired manner.
The majority of none forum readers have voted with their feet in the game and choose to run, gang and whatever else is garunteed to make you whine in here in the face of your awsume killer game skills. They don't want to play the game your way and they don't give a ratz hairy behind what you think about it in the least. That's the real source of these whines. They reject you as the example of how this game should be played while they are paying their $14.95. A casual observer might posit, the madder you get the happier they feel about thier $14.95 game experience.
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shame no one will read your post bustr, looks like it might be quite good for once
(and by 'quite good' I obviously mean 'something I agree with' )
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You should thank him for saving you ammo!
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You will be missed by everyone on AH, I didn't get to know you as much as the rest, but I know you are very well respected in the community. <S>
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You will be missed by everyone on AH, I didn't get to know you as much as the rest, but I know you are very well respected in the community. <S>
*cough* (wrong thread) *cough*
>.>
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2.5k... that's 3 proxies wtg.
You've got to be within 2K to get a proxie and even that's iffy at times.
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Yet if it were 4 different pilots, that would be swell? :headscratch:
*shrug* Just seems to me an odd thing to get angry over. A red plane's a red plane.
Wiley.
I know it probably sounds odd but 4 different pilots would be swell. The reason is that I don't think of red planes as red planes but as different players. With plenty of players I might as well not have any ammo to start with, I can respect their skill. I don't respect somebody with no skill who just keeps reupping till I'm out of bullets. I wouldn't say I get angry over it that would be pretty silly, disparate visions of how the game should be played are just a given. I just like to complain and feel self righteous as much as the next guy.
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A bomber without bombs is not a threat so who cares if they bail?
If you're going to complain about something, complain about wasting your time chasing empty bombers!
If you knew they already dropped you should have started hunting someplace else.
:O
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(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8054/8138659208_e3ebfafaf6_b.jpg)
One second later...........he earns his "V".
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8193/8138627761_8e41b23da2_b.jpg)
I find this typical of the family of V's.
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I've seriously never known Alibaba to do that... there are a ton of V's that are good guys, and he's at the top of the list...
Maybe he was just having a bad day, or there was another explanation... but yeah, that's pants... especially with you rolling in on his 6 like a newb... shoulda been an easy rear gun kill.
(The above is a running joke about my inability to make more than one or two high deflection passes on buffs before I roll up to the back door like a retarded afghan hound looking for some kibbles and bits)
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I'd have shot ya down (or tried at least), provided my guns were working and had ammo
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I've seriously never known Alibaba to do that... there are a ton of V's that are good guys, and he's at the top of the list...
Maybe he was just having a bad day, or there was another explanation... but yeah, that's pants... especially with you rolling in on his 6 like a newb... shoulda been an easy rear gun kill.
(The above is a running joke about my inability to make more than one or two high deflection passes on buffs before I roll up to the back door like a retarded afghan hound looking for some kibbles and bits)
The pictures are right there so it should be obvious what happened.
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The pictures are right there so it should be obvious what happened.
Oh I hear ya, but what I am saying is that this isn't the standard behavior that *I* have observed from THIS 'V' guy.
I've shot him down, he's shot me down, he's always quick to <S> and I have never heard him go rage pm style.
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This isn't WWII though
It's a computer game
There are always people that will do whatever lame stuff they can get away with in computer games. Many different examples of this in AH...and it's never going to change
And wouldn't it be great is by attacking empty bombers you could actually impact strats some how. I mean, by killing bombers early on germany hurt both the RAF and US Army Airforces by killing the bomber faster then they could be supplied, and it impacted how the war was fought. we can not do that in this game. There is an endless supply of bombers , killing the aircraft has no impact.
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Generally they probably didn't want to bail but the C.O. called a mission. I honestly don't have a problem with it.
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So what would our game look like if Hitech were to agree with your collective need to control our collective behavior in the name of the collective dream of the ideal Aces High game play?
You always see words like collective, control, and behavior tossed about when a totalitarian minority wants to convice a majority to submit to them in the name of a utopian better way of participating in a community. Control and public shame seems to be the common denominator in pushing the less accomplished majority into compliance. Force shows up after it's too late to change your vote.
1. - Fighters refusing to fight, running away, and gang banging. The heart of community Social injustice and Ideal game play.
How would Hitech impose a function that determined if someone was running away from a fight with another player or players? Some amount of running is directly due to the tendancy of many fights becoming one versus many with no way to win. A blanket function that determins when you are at 1500yds of a red icon inbound and kills you if you move past 2500yds away of the nearest red icon giving that nearest icon your kill? Do you then request a similar function to kill your countrymen if they add themselves to your fight?
Does Hitech institute a referee corp like the trainers? Who have kill power, indestructability in any ride, ominous icon, with no country affiliation. Who simply look for runners and gangings? Then place their mouse on the offending icons and click you dead? Will these players be recruited by HTC anonymously, voted by the community, or chosen from the self identified best players of the best asking for all the rules in the first place? Why do elites always want rules and dire consiquences to control the happy masses??
Knowing how much we collectively are not boyscouts. Compliance is mandatory, fun is secondary to achieving the collective definitions of the long standing aggrieved ideals of proper game play. Everyone will accept that they may not be able to compete against a minority of superior proper minded players. That will be of no consiquece to to the anti running\hoarding function nor the referees. Learn to fight by the ideal standards or leave the game will be players only options by this point. But, for the superior few a buffet of red meat at all times in abstract theory.
2. - Gamey Bombers.
How do you force bombers to only fly missions in proscribed manners seen in WW2 film footage and archival research? Does Hitech create a kill function that causes the bombers to explode if bombs are dropped from unacceptable altitiudes or angle of attacks? Do players who bomb then bail get ejected from the game for 24 hours becasue they don't feel like RTBing or sitting still while someone chews up their bombers due to no ammo? Does the referee corp follow bombers around and use their death mouse click to force compliance?
3. - Spawn Camping and other precieved gamey GV infractions.
Here the referees should just drive around in jeeps and fly around in Storch watching everything while listening to all channels and reading all text and interdicting complaints or infranctions of a whole new set of standard GV combat rules. Death by mouse always one click away to solve lack of rule compliance.
4. - Gamey use of CV's.
Hitech can program so that CV's are restricted on each map to generalised areas so they cannot be hidden. Even place a map icon on all fleets seen by all countries. Then assign a referee to watch each CV with the ability to kill everything from the CV group down to individual gunners, LVT, PT and aircraft. Always keeping mind the referee can kill anything attacking the CV with the click of a mouse for infractions.
5. - Gamey strategies to capture feilds and bomb strats.
A list of accepted methods by WW2 historc standards as viewed in films and archival research will be posted and adhered to. All missions will be accompanied by a referee with mouse click kill authority for infranctions.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orrrrrrr.............
There are no rules to how you use the toys to have fun after paying your $14.95 other than profanity restrictions or attempts at introducing outside cheats into the game.
Kind of like free market capitolism versus central government controled socialism\totalitarianism that cultural elites always want to impose on the less talented irritating masses becasue they feel they know better how to live life. Some how there's always some form of a policing force needed to "FORCE" compliance, order, and dissapere inconvenient political pundants.
These complaints in here look like public shame is not working in the desired manner.
The majority of none forum readers have voted with their feet in the game and choose to run, gang and whatever else is garunteed to make you whine in here in the face of your awsume killer game skills. They don't want to play the game your way and they don't give a ratz hairy behind what you think about it in the least. That's the real source of these whines. They reject you as the example of how this game should be played while they are paying their $14.95. A casual observer might posit, the madder you get the happier they feel about thier $14.95 game experience.
shame no one will read your post bustr, looks like it might be quite good for once
(and by 'quite good' I obviously mean 'something I agree with' )
It's what we argue/disuss most everynight on squad vox, gaming the game.
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The Vs bail in fighters too.