Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CptTrips on November 19, 2012, 01:00:41 PM
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I found this interesting.
http://www.businessinsider.com/windows-users-plan-to-switch-to-apple-2012-11?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheMoneyGame+(The+Money+Game) (http://www.businessinsider.com/windows-users-plan-to-switch-to-apple-2012-11?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+TheMoneyGame+(The+Money+Game))
I know a lot of people who are moving to tablets (most iPad, some Android).
A friend at work says they have a really nice computer on a corner desk in the family room, but the kids never touch it any more. They'll sit in the same room and Facebook on the iPhones or tablets instead, or even from the xbox (you can FB on the xbox???). Most games they play are on the phone/tablet or xbox.
I gave my mom my iPad 2 when I got my new one. She had always been a little skittish about her PC, because in fairness there are a lot of ways to accidentally hose up your pc.
It took a while to convince her there was very little real chance of her hosing it up, once I got her setup, short of just dropping the thing. SHe could feel free downloading anything she wants off the Appstore and there is virtually no chance of her screwing up her system or getting a virus.
(Yes, I know it technically theoretically possible to get a virus off the Apple app store but she probably has greater odds of getting hit in the head with a solid gold meteorite on her way to the lotto office to cash in her winning ticket.)
No I have some issues with the poll and the way it was framed, but it is interesting and more and more I see other stuff that falls along those lines. The biggest problem is that its not clear if those are supplementary or replacement pruchaces.
Along those lines, I was at Best Buy the other day. I remember when you used to have rows and rows of PC game shelves. Now its like one little shelf that looks a little dusty. Mostly games they released on the consoles and finnaly gotten around to releasing a PC port. Meanwhile 1/4 of the store was dedicated to Xbox, Wii, PS3.
Food for thought.
Wab
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I personally think the PC will not be going away for a long time. I stopped buying Call of Duty for 2 reasons. One being the fact that their ideas are now junk, in my own opinion 4 was one of the best ones (being the first modern day one). Second, they didn't design it for PC, instead did the port-over from console. I remember having dedicated 50-man servers, now you can have a max of 12 in a server? You end up spending more time running around with your thumb up your butt than anything. Battlefield BC2 and 3 have it right.
Maybe desktops themselves might be going away, think about it. It is easier to buy a console for a few hundred dollars that can play a bunch of different games, than to buy a $1000+ dollar gaming computer that can play the same games with graphics turned up. But personally, I don't like consoles.
Laptops and tablets have taken over in today's world only because of portability...I have an iPad for on campus since I'd rather not lug my laptop around when I can hop on the tablet to check email, or whatever I need to do. Still, the device I still use the most is my desktop.
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Food for thought.
I just threw up.
Every time I buy a game for the xbox instead of the pc I'm paying more and getting less.
I can do whatever I want with my PC. I can wire up USB devices and make them do whatever I want too. I'm also one of those guys that likes to self-troubleshoot, I learn a lot from it. I wouldn't learn anything using an iWhatever.
I have absolutely no use for those tiny little time-waster phone games. If you're gunna play games why not do it right?
Just me I guess.
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I just threw up.
Every time I buy a game for the xbox instead of the pc I'm paying more and getting less.
I can do whatever I want with my PC. I can wire up USB devices and make them do whatever I want too. I'm also one of those guys that likes to self-troubleshoot, I learn a lot from it. I wouldn't learn anything using an iWhatever.
I have absolutely no use for those tiny little time-waster phone games. If you're gunna play games why not do it right?
Just me I guess.
Heh. I'm not saying I prefer it. I'm just saying the way things seem to be trending. Heck I prefered the way they used to make cars. Now everything is electronic chips and hard to fix yourself. Think they'll change them all back for me? ;)
On the console games, well, thats just the way its going to go. The market is so more larger, the testing effort is so much easier with a single locked down platform, and there is much less possibility or rampant piracy. Profit margins are way superior in the console world.
As far as the iWhatevers, well, pimply face, jolt cola drinking hardcore games are always going to prefer more depth than what you'll probably see on the mobiles. Though, more and more, they are prefering console to PC.
What you are getting in the mobile world are the vast herds of people who never considered themselves as gamers. They probably whould pickup a xbox controller but a LOT of them have smart phones and tablets now and are gaming for the first time. They prefer the lighter, more casual games that can be played with fingertips in 5 minute increments they have to spare here and there. But they out number the hardcore gamers 20 to 1. So companies find it hard to ignore those dallar signs.
Wab
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I think that it's a shift and evolution.
Remember, the PC was only for the enthusiast and geeks before the advent of America Online (AOL). After that and during the dawn of unlimited free beverage coasters via postal service (AOL discs (and floppys, who remembers those, I do!)), I don't think there was an enthusiast or computer geek that didn't get hit up by a neighbor/friend/family member for a basic system/rig/tool for their own personal use to meet their need/desire to explore and discover this revolutionary new thing called the internet.
PCs have been the primary tool/vehicle for those wishing access to the internet for the last decade and a half (almost two). But that IS ALL most users look upon them as and utilise them for - the internet box. Times are changing, they've been for a good decade or near-decade (7-8 years). Now the most user-friendly and ideal method/tool to meet their needs is the smartphone or XBox/PS3 - devices dependent on the internet/connection but who offer as a secondary feature the tool/vehicle that your most-generic internet-savy person wants and needs (as most really don't _need_ a full PC to converse with fellow facebook/twitter cultists or at most play farmville).
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Babalonian's got the right of it, IMO. I worry because I happen to like things like AH, and Star Citizen, and games like that. Maybe consoles will one day pick up the slack for peripherals. I really don't care if I plug my HOTAS into an Xbox 1440 or a PC, as long as I can get something like AH on it.
PC gaming is getting more and more niche as time goes on. I worry it will die out and we'll be left with stuff that has round based gameplay like World of Tanks and other similar games.
Wiley.
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Babalonian's got the right of it, IMO. I worry because I happen to like things like AH, and Star Citizen, and games like that. Maybe consoles will one day pick up the slack for peripherals. I really don't care if I plug my HOTAS into an Xbox 1440 or a PC, as long as I can get something like AH on it.
PC gaming is getting more and more niche as time goes on. I worry it will die out and we'll be left with stuff that has round based gameplay like World of Tanks and other similar games.
Wiley.
I think this is correct, bottom line is it's easier and more profitable for game developers to make something for the console market, mainly because they don't have to work with/bug test the umpteen different hardware configurations that are possible - it's all pretty much standardised on consoles
plus, although piracy still exists in the console world, it is far far less prevalent than in the world of PC gaming. why bust your donut for years and years making a game for the PC when 50% of people will just pirate it?
on the other hand, I do think PC will always have a place for specialist games. just that niche will get smaller and smaller as time goes on
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Only 12 percent said that they'd be switching to a Mac OS based personal computer. The 30% who would buy an iPad aren't going to stop using a personal computer, it's not like tablets are practical for every application, even if they're becoming more common as people find more uses for them.
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If I had to bet, I'd say the big square beige box we think of as a Desktop PC is on the way out.
I see the world falling into smart phones, consoles for AAA gaming and general media serving, and "convertables" that look like a laptop but whose screen can be ripped off and used as a touch enabled tablet.
I see hardcore gaming becoming more and more fringe for major publishers. Its just the tyranny of large numbers.
On the otherhand, I think the digital store like Steam, and the various AppStores, are ushering a golden age of indie developers we haven't seen since the early days of PC shareware. They can get access to potentially huge customer bases and bypass the traditional publisher plantation system. ;) Thats where your hardcore gaming will still cling on, the small indie shops delivering digitally.
Just daydreaming about the future as I sit home sick getting high on cough syrup seeing visions. ;)
Wab
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I think it's just going to shrink, the home PC user/enthusiast market that is. It will still exist and be driven by those who are really into it. It won't be pleasant though, between being spoiled by the internet revolution and the investors backing stock associated with it, having snatched the bulk of that sweet mothers milk won't be met without loud cries and wimpers.
In a way though, this brings up the conversation of just WTH is micro$oft thinking most recently???.... are they giving up the home/buisness/enthusuiast PC OS market and/or just making the opportunity today to invite in outside competition - because what would happen if tomorrow someone came out with an OS better than windows 7 and it isn't what windows 8 is? Win8 is IMHO is really wierd for micro$oft, it's blatantly a turn away from the nerds and geeks in the garage (toying and testing with computers for whatever needs/means) and to the generic consumer electronics user (i$'s realm).
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I'm not going to be doing Excel spreadsheets on a laptop with a 12 inch screen or an iPad
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In a way though, this brings up the conversation of just WTH is micro$oft thinking most recently???....
This is what they are thinking:
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/09/07/iphone-revenue-greater-than-all-of-microsofts/ (http://www.tuaw.com/2012/09/07/iphone-revenue-greater-than-all-of-microsofts/)
Everything they do, every business unit, their Client Server OS, Office, Visual Studio, Sharepoint, SQL, etc, etc...
Everything they have combined, makes less revenue than JUST the iPhone.
Just the iPhone.
They are thinking the part of the river they have a claim on is pretty much "panned-out".
Wab
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I think we're more likely to see more integration with a home system that acts as PC/game machine kept in the closet and on 24/7 with mobile devices such as phones and tablets used to interface with it as well as the TV/living room setup and home office setups.
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I think we're more likely to see more integration with a home system that acts as PC/game machine kept in the closet and on 24/7 with mobile devices such as phones and tablets used to interface with it as well as the TV/living room setup and home office setups.
Yeah I can see that.
However, I think MS sees that hub as the XBox eventually. And I think APple sees that as being the future AppleTV.
Of course for all that to really work beautifully all the data and content need to be on the cloud so you can get to it all even when you are at Starbucks. :O
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PC gaming is getting more and more niche as time goes on.
Wiley.
No it's not and there really isn't any evidence to back up such a claim.
ack-ack
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PCs aren't going to go anywhere. PCs sales are down because of the ecomonic conditions in this country and worldwide and people are more likely to keep with their existing PC and upgrade instead of purchasing a new one. The average age of a PC in a consumer's home is 2 years.
ack-ack
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In the future all electronic devices will most likely un-evolve to this: :rofl
(http://www.oaktreevintage.com/web_photos/Video_Games/Mattel_Football_Original_White_web.jpg)
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PC gaming is getting more and more niche as time goes on.
I don't think PC gaming will disappear any time soon, but its obvious that it doesn't hold the dominant position it once did, and I don't see it getting any better, only worse, slowly but surely.
An interesting read:
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/goinglopsided/the-decline-in-pc-gaming-202762.phtml
Wab
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I knew things were going downhill when Best Buy stopped selling PC games.
Actually I cant think of a place where I can go in and buy a PC game anymore
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I don't think PC gaming will disappear any time soon, but its obvious that it doesn't hold the dominant position it once did, and I don't see it getting any better, only worse, slowly but surely.
An interesting read:
http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/goinglopsided/the-decline-in-pc-gaming-202762.phtml
Wab
That "paper" only looks at one aspect, namely the negative effect piracy has had, as it claims piracy is the #1 reason for the decline of PC gaming, which it isn't. Console games are pirated just as much as PC games, in some cases even more (Call of Duty II is a prime example) but yet the decline in console games isn't being blamed on piracy but rather the poor economic conditions we face, which is the same reason for the decline in PC gaming and PCs in general. It's very hard to justify spending $49 for a PC game or $59 for a console game today due to the economy, or spending a thousand or so for a new PC when you can upgrade your existing PC for a fraction of that cost.
Every so often we're told that PC and PC gaming is on the decline and will be replaced by such and such product but in the 17 years I've been in this industry, PC games and PC desktops are still around.
ack-ack
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I am curious to how smart tvs will effect having a pc in the future for some people. I'm curious to see how smart tvs evolve in 5 to 8 years.
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Console games are pirated just as much as PC games, in some cases even more
not even close to being true :rolleyes:
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the content matters. everything else is just a box collecting dust in the corner and varying methods of input.
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That "paper" only looks at one aspect, namely the negative effect piracy has had, as it claims piracy is the #1 reason for the decline of PC gaming, which it isn't.
Ack-Ack,
I'm sure you have insight into the PC game market that I don't. I'm not sure I believe that piracy is the #1 reason, but I not be surprised its really close. I'd be interested in any supporting information to the contrary.
You are right that the industry is down to some extent across the board because of the economy. however, people are finding billions of dollars to spend on mobile devices and mobile games so I don't think the economy can be the whole story.
Console games are pirated just as much as PC games, in some cases even more (Call of Duty II is a prime example)
I'd be interested in any supporting links you could provide for that. At least in the article in question, the stats are shown as PC having over 4 times the piracy rate as console (if I'm reading the numbers right thru my Dayquil haze). That means profit margins on console would be 400% higher right from the start. Pretty compelling.
(http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/5/53005-202762-mw2imgjpg-620x.jpg)
Android has the same problems for a lot of the same reasons. Not only have a lot of development shops dropped support for Android because of the maddening fragmentation but the piracy is insane (sounds like PC to me). One shop thru server interaction was seeing 11 to 1 piracy rate.
Every so often we're told that PC and PC gaming is on the decline and will be replaced by such and such product but in the 17 years I've been in this industry, PC games and PC desktops are still around.
I don't think PC's are going to vanish. I just think their day as the premier gaming platform are over.
Wab
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not even close to being true :rolleyes:
It's very true, console games are pirated just as much as PC games. For example, about 3 years ago we released a game on both the PS3 and Xbox 360 and sold about a few million units of the game, with the Xbox 360 version accounting for a slight majority of those sold. After a post sales analysis, we found out that close to a million units were pirated worldwide of our game, with the vast majority being the Xbox 360 version. Pirated games on the PS3 are less common than those for the Xbox but that's only because of the Blue-Ray format, its more time consuming to burn copies to Blue-Ray than the DVD format used by the Xbox 360.
ack-ack
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It's very true, console games are pirated just as much as PC games. For example, about 3 years ago we released a game on both the PS3 and Xbox 360 and sold about a few million units of the game, with the Xbox 360 version accounting for a slight majority of those sold. After a post sales analysis, we found out that close to a million units were pirated worldwide of our game, with the vast majority being the Xbox 360 version. Pirated games on the PS3 are less common than those for the Xbox but that's only because of the Blue-Ray format, its more time consuming to burn copies to Blue-Ray than the DVD format used by the Xbox 360.
It sounds on first read you are comparing xbox piracy rate to ps3 piracy rate. But the question is PC piracy rate as a percentage of units sold to console piracy rate as a percentage of units sold, isn't it?
You are asserting that console piracy rates, as a percentage of units sold, for consoles are equal to or higher than PC?
Wab
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Ack-Ack is correct when it comes to piracy... PC & Console are bad, Mobile is worse!
PCs aren't going to go anywhere. PCs sales are down because of the ecomonic conditions in this country and worldwide and people are more likely to keep with their existing PC and upgrade instead of purchasing a new one. The average age of a PC in a consumer's home is 2 years.
ack-ack
Not quite true... PC sales are down because people don't need to upgrade, simple as that. PC games are down because most AAA PC game titles require huge budgets to compete so publishers are going to take significantly less risk. Contrast that to mobile games where most are made on tiny budgets around 100,000 dollars.
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Ack-Ack is correct when it comes to piracy... PC & Console are bad, Mobile is worse!
Just so I understand, you are also asserting that Console piracy rate is equal to or greater than PC piracy rate?
That's an extraordinary claim. Can you point me to some supporting info on that?
I know piracy is epidemic on Android, and I know it exists on jail broken IOS.
Are you asserting that piracy rate as a percentage of sales is equal to or higher for IOS as compared to PC?
Again, that is contrary to what I have understood. Can you point at some numbers?
Wab
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Just so I understand, you are also asserting that Console piracy rate is equal to or greater than PC piracy rate?
No, I'm asserting that its higher than you think but compared to the currently growing market, both are child's play.
Can you point at some numbers?
I can't because CEOs of publishers regularly blame their poor numbers/products on piracy, so discerning the BS from the truth is challenging.... I suspect that mobile from 65% to 95%. Some people have claimed that on android alone its a 9:1 for piracy (9 pirated to 1 purchased)! Oh, and sorry iOS cool-aid drinkers, its piracy is high there too... again I don't have exact figures...
EDIT: I do have numbers on certain products in the market place, but I can't speak freely of them.
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To play pirated games on, for example, an Xbox, requires physical modification of the console itself. This leads to your online account being banned if you ever try to play games online with that machine.
So...requires money and effort just to be able to play pirated games...plus the fact that you can never use it to play online again.
Compared to PC piracy, where it takes just a couple of clicks to download a torrent of a new game, and this does not prevent you from playing other non-pirated games online if you wish. In fact you can even play some pirated games online depending on the level of anti-piracy stuff.
It's a lot easier to pirate stuff on the Nintendo Wii and DS, but less people using those consoles are inclined to piracy (well, the Wii at least). I don't know for sure about the PS3 but I assume it's something similar to the Xbox, where once you have altered your console either physically or via some kind of software hack, you can't use it for online stuff anymore.
In conclusion, it's ridiculous to suggest that console game piracy is as prevalent as PC game piracy. Only a small percentage of console owners bother to hack their machines to play pirated material, because of the effort and downsides involved.
Ack-Ack, I don't see how your mention that your companies' game released for Xbox and PS3 was pirated roughly 1/3rd as much as it was sold is relevant :headscratch: no one is saying that console piracy doesn't exist....just that it is not as common as the pirating of PC games. I am just pulling this suspicion out of my bum...but I would strongly suspect suspect that for a great many PC games (especially single player ones) they are pirated by as much as 50% of people and paid for by the other 50%
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The thing is, If developers try to make their game as secure as possible, then that means more security measures have to be enabled just to play. The legit gamers then gets pizzd off and the game earns a bad reputation and don't sale as well. Silent Hunter 5 (I think?) had a bunch of DRM stuff and requires you to be online just to playing a single player game.
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same deal with Diablo 3 which (apart from the game being garbage in its own right) is a huge turn off for a lot of people
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I'm not going to be doing Excel spreadsheets on a laptop with a 12 inch screen or an iPad
This. Probably 99% of all the corporate/business laptops/desktops in the (western) world run Windows? Apple has a strong foothold in the graphics & music business, but thats about it? Linux/Unix is non-existant, except servers of course?
Camo
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No it's not and there really isn't any evidence to back up such a claim.
ack-ack
Ok... I see I didn't quite phrase that clearly, my apologies.
The number of games available only on PC compared to the number of games that are multiplatform is diminishing. Other than MMOs and sims, there are very few games that are PC exclusive.
Wiley.