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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CZCH64 on November 27, 2012, 02:40:39 PM

Title: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: CZCH64 on November 27, 2012, 02:40:39 PM
Just wondering. Back when CFS 2 came out (2000?) I bought Abacus FS design studio and got into (trying anyway...lol) modeling a few. I think I tried  a couple different Yak's. Never got as far as flying them.....Still have the program somewhere. Though I did do some skins using Paint Shop Pro.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: mechanic on November 27, 2012, 02:43:57 PM
depends how much cragganmore you send him
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Bino on November 27, 2012, 02:45:29 PM
Wait for it.......






TWO WEEKS!   :rofl

Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 27, 2012, 03:36:09 PM
It takes as long as they want it to.  Seriously.   :aok

I wonder though if Pyro, Hitech, and Waffle (and whomever else gets their hands dirty with connecting the tinker toys) were to all start at 8am and work their fingers to the bone programming and "coading" a new airplane from scratch if they could be done by 5pm? 
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: TheMercinary60 on November 27, 2012, 03:51:23 PM
im rather curious to know as well now
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: The Fugitive on November 27, 2012, 04:33:43 PM
I doubt it. I would think it would take a bit longer to build the model, then the 3d shape, then the skin. Then there would be the testing to see that it performed as intended, that the damage model and all its shapes perform as intended and so on. I would think if they spent strait time on it it would be a month any way. Some of these skinners spend 80-100 hours doing a skin. building 3d shapes and tying it all together can't be a walk in the park either. If it was easy everyone would be doing it. 
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: bustr on November 27, 2012, 04:41:41 PM
I've always wondered if it depends on the amount of testing data that exists versus if HTC had to purchase or create a wind tunnel app to generate the data knowing the airfoil and 3D wing shape and extrapolating the drag and lift factors for the rest of the airframe. 3D model rendering is one thing, 3D physics modeling and motion is another.

It would be kind of fun if Hitech added a feature to our film playback where you see threads attached to the lift surfaces and you could freeze frame, zoom in, and see what's happening to the airflow. Might give the trainers a bit more visual info to work with player questions.

Also the amount of engine\prop data still available, or did they have to build\purchase an extrapolation program to create values based on similarities that could be scrounged up off the internet or various private and government data sources.

Then there is the matter of internal photos of pilot and crew positions. Unless accurate enough scale drawings are allowable sources leaving the color pallet up to known historic country standards and the ingenuity of the art team. The ventral gun position in the A20 and Boston for example. Good drawings are out on the internet and the AAF manual.

It could also be a budgeting issue due to the economy and what can be expected. Like many companies HTC may have cut back on overtime for projects(sleeping under the table to hit release dates) and we are all waiting for the 2013 budget cycle to kick in 1.1.13.

In the last few years alot of toys and effects have been pumped out creating an expectation of toys and changes versus game play. If the game becomes about new toys and effects opposed to playing the game, then can the game stand on it's own as a combat simulator?

Are you here to play the game or are you here becasue you want SantaTech to stirr the pot one more time? I love new toys like anyone else. But, a new toy is not combat or the interactive community in the arenas.

Toys are not a substitute for bordom.

Just remember the Me410. We spent months telling each other it would be a drag racing Semi with gun packages from hades. We got a fully loaded 18 wheeler instead, most of the time sitting in the garage collecting dust. Come to think of it one of my gunsights helped a squadmate hit bombers from 2-2.5k (25Mil below center elevation)with the 50BK. My best was about 1.5k testing that gunsight in the drone circle. Correcting the optical resolution in the gunsights was one of the better tweeks Hitech made to his game over the years........ :aok
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: CZCH64 on November 27, 2012, 05:29:35 PM
No idea it was that involved. I figured they made the 3d model on a program like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRCg9myk0V0

 Which is the one ( prob newer version) that I used. I don't think the version I had the white graph template. Pretty much started from scratch setting your points etc. I didn't get as far as the aerodynamics and flight part of the model. I should dig the program out and install it on my PC I have now. Not sure if it would run on 7 though.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: lunatic1 on November 27, 2012, 05:40:11 PM
6 months
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Babalonian on November 27, 2012, 06:05:24 PM
Soon™, say about Two Weeks®, although more Craggenmore© sent to their address never hurts.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: TheMercinary60 on November 27, 2012, 06:06:59 PM
Soon™, say about Two Weeks®, although more Craggenmore© sent to their address never hurts.

are you sure about that? stuff like that usually sidetracks me  :lol
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: beau32 on November 27, 2012, 08:58:30 PM
I asked Hitech one time about this, and this is what he said.


40-80 Hours for the flight model

1-2 months for the art work
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Daddkev on November 28, 2012, 10:03:42 AM
 :huh :huh :huh  = 2 weeks  :huh :huh :huh
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: tunnelrat on November 28, 2012, 10:11:50 AM
How much Cragganmore would it take to get like a vidya blog or something of the creation process?

I know I wouldn't be the only one interested in seeing the process in action.

Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: ink on November 28, 2012, 10:24:14 AM
Just wondering. Back when CFS 2 came out (2000?) I bought Abacus FS design studio and got into (trying anyway...lol) modeling a few. I think I tried  a couple different Yak's. Never got as far as flying them.....Still have the program somewhere. Though I did do some skins using Paint Shop Pro.

if you want to get back into 3D modeling....check out the program "Blender"  it is free and can do anything that pertains to 3D art......just as good maybe easier even for some things...then the high end big money programs....the interface is a bit overwhelming at first, but once you know all the KB commands its quite nice.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: palef on November 28, 2012, 12:51:03 PM
2 weeks.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Dragon on November 28, 2012, 02:11:47 PM
All you had to do was ask and..............poof. 
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Sg11 on November 28, 2012, 06:58:53 PM

Are you here to play the game or are you here becasue you want SantaTech to stirr the pot one more time? I love new toys like anyone else. But, a new toy is not combat or the interactive community in the arenas.

You got a point here. But I also like new "toys".
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: danny76 on November 29, 2012, 03:37:13 AM
I've been modelling an Airfix Me 109 for about 6 weeks now and it hasnt got a tail yet :confused:
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: realgood on November 29, 2012, 08:51:47 AM
 Santa knows  :headscratch:  :headscratch: humm 2 weeks  :banana:  :banana:  :banana:  :x  :x  :O :bolt:
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: fbEagle on November 29, 2012, 09:58:15 AM
I can knock out a plane in X Plane 9 in about 4 hours. That is modeling, weight, and balance, engine design, and cockpit design. however Ive got to think that x plane 9 makes it a lot easier to model something seems how most of the physics is done automatically lol. The basic shape is definately the easy part. once your done with that you can start crunching the numbers and making the dam thing flyable.  :airplane:
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: FiLtH on November 29, 2012, 02:20:02 PM
Id imagine its faster now than 10 years ago. The tools have probably improved. Plus you dont know how many other projects unrelated to AH they may have going.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: hitech on November 29, 2012, 03:09:07 PM
Id imagine its faster now than 10 years ago. The tools have probably improved. Plus you dont know how many other projects unrelated to AH they may have going.

Actually the tools to create meshes have not changed a lot in the last 20 years. But the detail put into a shape/mesh has changed drastically.

HiTech
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Ten60 on November 29, 2012, 04:01:28 PM
Actually the tools to create meshes have not changed a lot in the last 20 years. But the detail put into a shape/mesh has changed drastically.

HiTech
I'd love to know what your target poly count was 10 years ago as opposed to now lol
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Chalenge on November 29, 2012, 04:49:53 PM
The last time I remember reading a thread like this the name of the program used to create the aircraft was mentioned. It was not freeware (Blender) or shareware flight simulator related or even one of the more popular like 3D Studio or autocad.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Ardy123 on November 29, 2012, 04:57:53 PM
Actually the tools to create meshes have not changed a lot in the last 20 years. But the detail put into a shape/mesh has changed drastically.

HiTech

HTC still uses PCPaint to create the textures ;)
EDIT: Nothing like re-implementing BSAVE loaders 30 years later ;)
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Babalonian on November 29, 2012, 06:32:20 PM
The last time I remember reading a thread like this the name of the program used to create the aircraft was mentioned. It was not freeware (Blender) or shareware flight simulator related or even one of the more popular like 3D Studio or autocad.

AutoCAD for video gaming 3D model creation?  Point me there and are they hiring?  :devil
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: hitech on November 29, 2012, 08:21:01 PM
What I have been using since 1995. Then it only ran on SGI unix systems.

http://www.vis-sim.com/creator/creator_faq_1.htm

HiTech

Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Ardy123 on November 29, 2012, 08:59:57 PM
What I have been using since 1995. Then it only ran on SGI unix systems.

http://www.vis-sim.com/creator/creator_faq_1.htm

HiTech


How does it compare to Maya? (I didn't see a trial version download on the site)...
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Chalenge on November 29, 2012, 10:48:49 PM
How does it compare to Maya? (I didn't see a trial version download on the site)...

Im not sure but I think its something akin to 20 times as expensive retail.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Ardy123 on November 30, 2012, 02:32:44 AM
Im not sure but I think its something akin to 20 times as expensive retail.
I bet you Presagis's product isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination(I'm guessing around 10 grand)... just say'n
EDIT: maya is about 2 grand
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: CZCH64 on November 30, 2012, 04:28:00 AM
if you want to get back into 3D modeling....check out the program "Blender"  it is free and can do anything that pertains to 3D art......just as good maybe easier even for some things...then the high end big money programs....the interface is a bit overwhelming at first, but once you know all the KB commands its quite nice.

Thx Ink.....Just downloaded and installed it.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Chalenge on November 30, 2012, 10:12:43 AM
I bet you Presagis's product isn't cheap by any stretch of the imagination(I'm guessing around 10 grand)... just say'n
EDIT: maya is about 2 grand

I remember a day when Maya was much more affordable but you are right . . . I see it on Amazon for $3700. I think Presagis Multigen Creator is $16k alone. Im not sure how all their tools fit together but it looks interesting.

Im much more familiar with 3DS, Maya, Mudbox, Motionbuilder and Softimage but they are just toys for animations like Thor and Avengers and so on (and XBox games).
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: hitech on November 30, 2012, 10:39:15 AM
I remember a day when Maya was much more affordable but you are right . . . I see it on Amazon for $3700. I think Presagis Multigen Creator is $16k alone. Im not sure how all their tools fit together but it looks interesting.

Im much more familiar with 3DS, Maya, Mudbox, Motionbuilder and Softimage but they are just toys for animations like Thor and Avengers and so on (and XBox games).

The key difference is what the output is used for. Creators intent is to build data bases for real time animations.

HiTech
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: hitech on November 30, 2012, 10:40:39 AM
Also if anyone is interested I have been in search of soldier animations/rigging/and meshes for FPS style play for a long time.

HiTech
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: tunnelrat on November 30, 2012, 10:58:35 AM
Also if anyone is interested I have been in search of soldier animations/rigging/and meshes for FPS style play for a long time.

HiTech

Like pre-existing stuff, perhaps open source?  Or would reference material from an FPS game/mod work?  By reference material, I mean that I don't know how directly it would translate to the style you are looking for.

Have you looked at the Unreal Development Kit recently?  It has a lot of stock stuff, not sure how valuable it would be but may be worth a look.

http://www.unrealengine.com/udk/

One question for you, sirah... do you do the standard high-poly/low-poly then normal mapping for models?  Thanks for sharing the tool you use, very interesting reading!

Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: hitech on November 30, 2012, 11:06:40 AM
As long as it is in the public domain and is wwii based.

Also All rigging must match.

HiTech
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: ink on November 30, 2012, 11:15:18 AM
Thx Ink.....Just downloaded and installed it.

cool beans....Blender kicks arse......Ive been using it for years, so if you get stuck on anything dont hesitate to PM me any questions, there are all kinds of tutorials that will really help you get going....David Ward search his name his tuts are great....

a good tip in the screen shot of the bearded dragon I am doing you see the images....in object mode ad a "empty" and you can set that to "image" then just upload the image....took me awhile to find that tip and it comes in VERY handy

couple pieces I am workin on.

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blendTrex.jpg)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blendBD2.jpg)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blendBD1.jpg)
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Oldman731 on November 30, 2012, 12:00:02 PM
Also if anyone is interested I have been in search of soldier animations/rigging/and meshes for FPS style play for a long time.


One is moved to inquire:  why would that be?

- oldman
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: ink on November 30, 2012, 12:07:34 PM
Also if anyone is interested I have been in search of soldier animations/rigging/and meshes for FPS style play for a long time.

HiTech

man.......animation is a PITA......been trying my hand at it, it is very difficult to get it smooth.....

have you seen the open source BVH animations? 

http://www.cgarena.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=52789

I am using these for reference to build my own.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Nathan60 on November 30, 2012, 12:21:36 PM

One is moved to inquire:  why would that be?

- oldman

Well, i would like to see that. HT anya ideas how you would introduce the fps element? Would a room open when troops are dropped?
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: CZCH64 on November 30, 2012, 12:54:10 PM
cool beans....Blender kicks arse......Ive been using it for years, so if you get stuck on anything dont hesitate to PM me any questions, there are all kinds of tutorials that will really help you get going....David Ward search his name his tuts are great....

a good tip in the screen shot of the bearded dragon I am doing you see the images....in object mode ad a "empty" and you can set that to "image" then just upload the image....took me awhile to find that tip and it comes in VERY handy

couple pieces I am workin on.

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blendTrex.jpg)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blendBD2.jpg)

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/blendBD1.jpg)

Ink...Nice work. Get stuck?... There's the understatement of the day...lol..A lot more involved then the program I had. Pretty much starting from square one....lol. Taking care of my sick wife (cancer/chemo) so I have plenty of indoor time to work with it. Found a tutorial on youtube (basic head shape). Working with that......
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Lusche on November 30, 2012, 12:59:36 PM
One is moved to inquire:  why would that be?


More and better dances in the hangar  :old:
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: ink on November 30, 2012, 01:05:45 PM
Ink...Nice work. Get stuck?... There's the understatement of the day...lol..A lot more involved then the program I had. Pretty much starting from square one....lol. Taking care of my sick wife (cancer/chemo) so I have plenty of indoor time to work with it. Found a tutorial on youtube (basic head shape). Working with that......


man that sux sorry to hear about the wife :(

good luck, blender can be overwhelming at first but it will come. :aok
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: hitech on November 30, 2012, 01:50:16 PM
our animation is already bvh based. As the running and dancing troop.

HiTech
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: ink on November 30, 2012, 01:58:08 PM
our animation is already bvh based. As the running and dancing troop.

HiTech

all those animations are BVH, wonder how difficult it would be for you to use them?

there is like 2500 of them
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Chalenge on November 30, 2012, 03:28:12 PM
Also if anyone is interested I have been in search of soldier animations/rigging/and meshes for FPS style play for a long time.

HiTech

Interested, but I won't be ready for prime-time for a bit. Im a bit too much of a perfectionist to jump in at this stage. Animations/rigging/meshes are what Maya and MotionBuilder do alright.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: tunnelrat on November 30, 2012, 03:35:34 PM

One is moved to inquire:  why would that be?

- oldman

Because once that's done, when you drop troops in/near a town, it will open a limited-time house to house fighting arena where the attacking team has to continue to bring troops to reinforce losses as attackers and defenders capture/defend objectives in a real-time madness arena!!

Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Nathan60 on November 30, 2012, 03:43:59 PM
Because once that's done, when you drop troops in/near a town, it will open a limited-time house to house fighting arena where the attacking team has to continue to bring troops to reinforce losses as attackers and defenders capture/defend objectives in a real-time madness arena!!



And it will be glorious.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: SmokinLoon on November 30, 2012, 04:56:33 PM
Being able to dart around a town as a Tommy would be lots of fun.  I can see this developing in to some thing HUGE. 

PIAT teams, BREN teams, recon teams, commandos, etc, etc.  Oh what fun!   :rock
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: 68ZooM on November 30, 2012, 06:14:58 PM
Also if anyone is interested I have been in search of soldier animations/rigging/and meshes for FPS style play for a long time.

HiTech

ive been waiting for this, longer than you can imagine  :aok
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Nathan60 on November 30, 2012, 06:15:18 PM
Oh yeah really really wanna knife the guys I cant beat in a AC :devil




yes, there is ALOT of people I cant beat in a AC.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: 68ZooM on November 30, 2012, 06:19:25 PM
if anyones every played WWII online ( ive been playing it sense its launch) i love the fact that it took players to cap a city instead of drone troops. it would add so much more to the game.
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: tunnelrat on December 03, 2012, 03:48:41 PM
if anyones every played WWII online ( ive been playing it sense its launch) i love the fact that it took players to cap a city instead of drone troops. it would add so much more to the game.

I played it on and off from the closed alpha through the horrid release for a year or so... picked it back up again a few times after that...  I almost went back to it when I decided instead to come back to Aces... I don't feel like I made the wrong decision at all, but being able to take a town FPS style would be awesome.

It would also be a whole lot of fun to school the faces off the legions that school me in the air hahahaha....

Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Nathan60 on December 03, 2012, 05:21:18 PM
Wonder how GVS will add in to the equation of a possible FPS part of the game
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Chilli on December 04, 2012, 03:08:21 AM
Willing to gamble, Dale has something completely unrealized before in mind.  First person shooter, may never be the same..................  :pray
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Mister Fork on December 04, 2012, 11:54:55 AM
I'm guesing a new Hurricane... and maybe player controlled Destroyers!...  :bolt:
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Nathan60 on December 04, 2012, 01:30:45 PM
I'm guesing a new Hurricane... and maybe player controlled Destroyers!...  :bolt:
DOnt forget subs!

Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: kvuo75 on December 04, 2012, 04:37:27 PM
Oh yeah really really wanna knife the guys I cant beat in a AC :devil




yes, there is ALOT of people I cant beat in a AC.



i dont think yer gonna beat many aircraft with knife either..  :D
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Mister Fork on December 04, 2012, 04:59:16 PM
DOnt forget subs!


oh yeah. Subs would be good too... :)
Title: Re: How long does it take HiTech to model a plane?
Post by: Chilli on December 05, 2012, 03:52:54 AM
 :D Already thinking of "animated zombie troops" for enemy combatants.  :rock  Instead of them carrying arms, like Tommy Guns or .45s, have them carry arms (of the severed kind) or legs.  :rofl