Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Nathan60 on November 28, 2012, 10:06:56 AM

Title: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Nathan60 on November 28, 2012, 10:06:56 AM
http://www.hitechcreations.com/News/Announcements/new-hurricane-screenshots.html (http://www.hitechcreations.com/News/Announcements/new-hurricane-screenshots.html)
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Oldman731 on November 28, 2012, 11:06:16 AM
Diggit.  I'll bet the Mark II with the "A" wing will be something to experience.

- oldman (not a pig like the IIC)
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Nathan60 on November 28, 2012, 11:10:03 AM
aapperently this is already out in General Discussion. Sorrry for a duplicate thread.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Noir on November 28, 2012, 11:10:23 AM
I wonder if the flight model will be tuned as well  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: B3YT on November 28, 2012, 11:59:36 AM
yippy .  my rides getting an upgrade
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Karnak on November 28, 2012, 12:22:47 PM
I wonder if the flight model will be tuned as well  :headscratch:
Hopefully.  The Hurricanes currently roll about 50% too fast as far as I've been able to determine.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Nathan60 on November 28, 2012, 12:26:47 PM
Hopefully.  The Hurricanes currently roll about 50% too fast as far as I've been able to determine.
Based on?
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Karnak on November 28, 2012, 03:55:30 PM
Based on?
A pilot quoting the time to roll 360 as six seconds and the AH Hurris doing it in four seconds.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Noir on November 28, 2012, 04:17:07 PM
The sea hurricane with 4x20mm will be a game changer IMO
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: WWhiskey on November 28, 2012, 05:17:49 PM
The sea hurricane with 4x20mm will be a game changer IMO
Wasn't sure what    gun package it had,, Didn't see any guns in the photo,, but   I am blind  darn near!
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Karnak on November 28, 2012, 06:09:12 PM
The Sea Hurricane is a Mk IB/C hybrid, so there will be hangar loadouts for eight 303s or four Hispanos. No rockets though.

I guess HTC just forgot to select an armament option before taking the screenshots.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: B3YT on November 29, 2012, 02:22:00 AM
Not sure if that is correct Karnak  as I've just finished reading a book by a hurricane ace in the BoB who flew spits and hurricanes who said that the hurricane would start it's roll quicker than spitfires and roll as fast as the 109  , but that was the Mk1a which had a lighter wing than the IIb/c . He went from spitfires to hurricanes when he joined 249 squadron and commented that the spitfire was only  more responsive in the vertical controls.

He often described beating rolling scissors with 109e and being impressed with it's fast response to his input to the ailerons .   He also talks about the hurricane being stable when making fast changes in pitch and roll .   
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Karnak on November 29, 2012, 03:55:18 AM
Pretty sure six seconds would still beat the Spitfire Mk I and Bf109E-4 in a 360 roll.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Fish42 on November 29, 2012, 05:30:56 AM
This report might help

http://mitglied.multimania.de/luftwaffe1/aircraft/usaaf/rollrate.pdf
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: GScholz on November 29, 2012, 05:37:11 AM
Very nice update!
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: B3YT on November 29, 2012, 07:49:17 AM
ah so it should be about 5  seconds to rotate 360 . Karnak would you say that sounds about right?
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Wmaker on November 29, 2012, 09:04:43 AM
Dave Southwood, a modern day warbird pilot prepared a lecture in 2004 about flying a number of warbirds including the Hurricane. In his lecture he mentiones that a full stick roll at 200KIAS (230mph IAS) takes 6 seconds at 5000ft.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Wmaker on November 30, 2012, 12:40:17 PM
I tested the roll rate using Mr. Southwood's parameters (230mph IAS, 5000ft) by rolling Hurricane IIc in game and filming it, and then by slowing the film to ~1/10th (0.11) speed to achieve more accurate timing. The time for full continuous roll to the left was 5.6 secs.

One thing that might be contributing to the different feel between the game and real life anecdotes about the poor roll rate is possible difference in roll acceleration. But that is something I can only speculate about.

Also, other speeds should be tested against good data to say anything definitive.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Karnak on November 30, 2012, 01:11:36 PM
He went from spitfires to hurricanes when he joined 249 squadron and commented that the spitfire was only  more responsive in the vertical controls.
Does he mean elevator response/authority or something else?

In AH the Hurricane seems to be more responsive in both, at least comparing the Mk I to the Mk I.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: B3YT on November 30, 2012, 05:02:45 PM
He said that the spitfire was far more sensitive to pitch and even just depressing the gun button would push the nose down . Also that the spit fire was extremely easy to over correct on take off and landing leading to many  accidents where the pilot "porpoised" the aeroplane into a crash . Either flaring to much on landing  snapping under carriage or damaging the wing, on take off clipping the prop on the ground . He did say that the hurricane was much better in a dive than the spitfire and that the pitch and roll controls needed the same amount of pressure to use , where as the spitfire you needed to treat the pitch with kids gloves .
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: B3YT on November 30, 2012, 05:06:31 PM
The book is : gun button to fire by wing commander Tom Neil DFC & Bar , AFC , AE.  flew both aircraft . defended Malta & Palestine after the BoB .


He does say that you can manhandle the Hurricane in ways that would snap the spitfire . He also emplanes the fuel fires . It was NOT the auxiliary tank that would burn pilots but the wing tanks.  There was no bulkhead between the cockpit and wings just fabric ; so if the main tank caught fire and you opened the cockpit it would act like a chimney pulling the flames into cockpit.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on November 30, 2012, 11:50:14 PM
6 seconds? man..whys it feel like even a p38 rolls faster then that.


cant be right.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Karnak on December 01, 2012, 08:17:46 AM
6 seconds? man..whys it feel like even a p38 rolls faster then that.


cant be right.
Why not?  The Spitfire Mk I and Bf109E-4 are both even slower.

Also, the P-38L has the fastest roll rate of all aircraft in AH once you get over about 380mph.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on December 01, 2012, 07:35:45 PM
So the subject of the spitfires roll rate is also depending model type on airspeed and on alt.


Making any roll rate subjective.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Wmaker on December 02, 2012, 06:52:25 AM
So the subject of the spitfires roll rate is also depending model type on airspeed and on alt.


Making any roll rate subjective.

Eh? :headscratch:

How is roll rate subjective? A real aircraft rolls x degrees per second at any given altitude/speed and so should its virtual counter part at the same speed/alt.

The question is, is there there enough data about the real aircraft to determine the roll performance across the whole flight envelope.
Title: Re: Hurri update and added Seahurri
Post by: Karnak on December 02, 2012, 09:17:23 AM
So the subject of the spitfires roll rate is also depending model type on airspeed and on alt.


Making any roll rate subjective.
The NACA 50lbs stick force roll rate chart includes both a clipped and unclipped, metal aileron Spitfire on their chart.