Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lazs on April 08, 2001, 10:46:00 AM
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obviously..... If people are busy they just don't have the time to be pissy. Right now, we all have a lot of time to kill online.... Killing planes is better. Watching hit sprites... seeing stuff fall off. smoking planes everywhere. People get less angry about getting killed if the action is hot than if they have to fly around for 20 minutes only to be gangbanged or fight for scraps. The less time you have to examine (and complain) your death or the other persons escape.... the better.
Of course.... you will still hear a couple of frustrated generals screaming on chan 1 but that's a small price to pay.
lazs
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I thought the idea of the duelling arena and the 8-way H2H was to give the furballers a place to do their thing, the MA is for the majority who wish to see a little more in their sim. To give any more concessions to the furballers would be a step backwards down the evolutionary ladder for online flight sims IMO.
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For once...yes...for once, I agree with Lazs
Spent my entire time at furball island last night and had a blast.
hit sprites are definitely stress relivers
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There's furball island in MA, dueling arena , and there's Fighter Ace as a backup.
Mething what we need is more strat targets (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Actually Lazs, the text is right... it just doesn't really correlate to the title.
Another thing that is important to remember is that when one group of people are really having fun, another group generally isn't.
It seems the community has failed to realize a basic truth about this game: in order for one person to succeed, another person must fail.
Most of the disgruntlement I usually see in a game comes from doing the same thing over and over again. The whines usually die down when something new is introduced, but then they return to normal.
The VERY common misconception is that furballing is not doing the same thing over and over again. It is. Moreso than any other aspect of the game.
Simply taking bases is also another way to get bored with what's going on. Doing the same thing over and over again, feeling the usual frustrations associated with it and feeling rewarded for only a brief instant.
The main point is, its not furballing or strat that are the issue... its the people failing to realize how to have fun or even what fun is.
For some, competition simply loses its luster. This game is purely competition whether you are furballing or playing the strat game. After a while, people just grow tired of it. Unfortunately, the disgruntled are always the most vocal.
Those that haven't grown tired of the game get labled by these vocal few. People that don't see glaring problems or total lack of furballing. Suddenly, you become cheerleaders or strat potatos or whatever. The positive get labled by the negative and thus the whole thing gets messy.
My advice to you, me and everyone is to play the fricking game how you want and stop worrying about how everyone else is doing it. Stop worrying about HOs, Vulches, base captures, warps, hacking, gang-bangs, furballs, strat, ack, flak, flak-panzers, clouds or whatever the real squeak of the day is and just play the game. If enough people aren't playing your way, then accept that it isn't going to happen that day and find something else to do either on-line or off-line. We'll all be much happier.
AKDejaVu
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Deja wrote:
Another thing that is important to remember is that when one group of people are really having fun, another group generally isn't.
What a load of crap! Life is not a zero-sum game. And AH most certainly is not either. The whole point of AH's existence is that the game is so fun that customers are actually willing and in fact eager to pay for the privilege of playing.
Improved aircraft selection, flight models etc... are good for the game. An improved arena design (whatever that may be) would have the effect of making game play more fun for more customers more of the time. There is no reason that changes to the arena could be made that would make AH more enjoyable for the majority of players. The only issue is what the appropriate changes are.
Hooligan
[This message has been edited by Hooligan (edited 04-08-2001).]
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deja... I am certain that we don't understand each other. Obviously that doesn't prevent either one of us from replying tho.
I see one thing wrong with your "when one group of people are really having
fun, another group generally isn't." theory... You did say "generally" but.. I would say that the way it works is this...
The furballers only need the opportunity to furball. Give em a place on the map and they will come. The (cough) "strat" guys depend on forcing people to play their game. The opportunity to strat is allways there it's just that it doesn't work well unless it is punitive to furballers. If you can't punish the furballers then.... what's the point? for instance...
If the carrier groups were larger or fields could launch fighters till they were closed... people would tend to gather (and furball) around those areas. In my naive way I thot that would be great for all... the furballers could have big fights and the strat guys could have a goal still but....
Strat in AH has nothing to do with goals... It has to do with denying someone their fun. bombers dropping nothing but the fighter hangers is strat (well, really tactics) in AH and it only makes fighters less fun. The fighters attacking have no cons and the defenders have to travel long distances to get into what may or may not be a fight.
If fields launched fighters till the end the strat would still be there. A closed field would still be an AH step toward the goal of "winning" the war. Bombers would be every bit as usefull, maybe more so... Just less resented. furballers and people who don't take bombs or care about strat would not care with this setep either but at least they would be there and "contributing" by at least killing cons or dying.
those who enjoyed long bomber or escort or sneak attacks or fights with very few cons could still (as they allways have) be able to do so. They could simply attack less busy fields.
In short... when one group such as furballers are having fun then if the strat guys aren't.... They have only themselves or their idea of fun to blame. The furballers have not in any way taken away their opportunity to close fields or to do strat....If the other group (strat guys) is having fun but it is soley at the expense of the furballers, either by denial of resources or places to take off... then really... the strat guys are at fault. They have removed the opportunity for the furballers to enjoy themselves.
A perfect example would be a dozen or so planes all furballing between two worthless (in the sceme of things) fields and everyone just having a good time with no one taking off in a bomber or jaboing the fighter hangers at either field then.... some bomber comes over at 15k and drops nothing but the fighter hangers at one of the fields and continues on to the next field. This ruins the fun of a bunch of guys and is really no talent pissy strat. It just seems too easy for one group to ruin the fun of the other right now.
lazs
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As shocking as it is, I agree with Lazs...it really does suck when you have to fly 60 miles to get to a fight. AH is supposed to be about air combat, not an online version of "MS flight simulator".
J_A_B
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What a load of crap! Life is not a zero-sum game. And AH most certainly is not either.
Think about that the next time your country is sweeping through another country's bases. Think about that the next time 20 people engage 5. Think about that the next time you are hovering over a field with no ack waiting for someone to spawn. Think about that the next time your country is only engaging one other country while the third is doing the same.
This game very easily becomes less fun. People are more than happy to make this game less fun for others. The idea that a furball island would somehow solve this is quite ludicrous. The problem isn't that people can't find a furball... its that people don't want to fight fair and they aren't concerned with how much fun the other team is having... only gaining an advantage. For that, for most people in the arena, is fun.
AKDejaVu
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As shocking as it is, I agree with Lazs...it really does suck when you have to fly 60 miles to get to a fight. AH is supposed to be about air combat, not an online version of "MS flight simulator".
So.. have one dedicated area where there will always be a fight... where you know exactly what will happen and exactly what to expect? That souldn't get monotonous or boring for anyone.
What happens if the fight that occurs in that dedicated area isn't to your liking? I mean even as far as dogfights go. Then where do you go? Oh.. wait.. there really isn't anyplace else to go because this is the dedicated area.
Right now you can move around as you chose and fight a fight more suiting to your needs. The complaints seem to arrise when people can't find exactly the type of fight they are looking for. Catering to one specific style is not going to solve that problem... its only going to contribute more to the problem. More flexibility and a better understanding of the GAME. Not of strategy... the GAME. Its easy to see where a fight will be. I logged on for 1 hour today and had no trouble doing it. I did very little strategically... but I found bandits all over the place. Virtually everyone else on-line at the time seemed to be doing the same.
And I've never had to fly 60 miles (nearly 3 sectors?) to find a fight. Never.
AKDejaVu
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Disagree.
The centre island works as a furball spot for the most part, and there's other venues like H2H.
If someone doesn't find the type of fight they want, it's easy enough to go elsewhere on the map - I do and I'm not the only one.
Bring on more strat - trains, supply ships, et cetera. Just because there's a target on the ground doesn't mean someone is being forced to attack it.
Cheers
Fighter jocks win the medals, Mud movers win the war. (and no ground is captured till some poor bloody grunt is standing on it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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Some great furballs the last couple of day...keep 'em coming!
bowser
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Deja--
Flying 1 sector only to find 6 friendlies vulching a half-dead base with maybe 1 guy trying to defend it doesn't count as a "fight"
Second, I don't really like the idea of a separate arena for "furballers". Rather, I just think that the bases are WAY too easy to render useless. ONE bomber shouldn't have the ability to render a base useless--it should take a concentrated effort.
Other games have proved that strat guys and fighters can co-exist somewhat peacefully in the same aren; it's just AH needs to have some settings tweaked.
J_A_B
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Vosper Wrote:
Fighter jocks win the medals, Mud movers win the war.
How true :-)
My name is Darling. I am a strat potato :-) Sure I get miffed sometimes, when nits are getting gangbanged (needling), and lots of resources are getting spent on Furballing on middle Island. And sure I get miffed when I spend 5 minutes planning a mission (nits know I do this a LOT), and only 3 guys show up, and lo and behold, friendly dar bars abound over middle Island. But it's everyones $30, and it's their time to spend.
I also agree with DJV. Repetition is my greatest enemy in AH. So I try to vary my time, doing fighter sweeps, bomber runs for tactical support, and "332nd specials" on enemy fields :-) I never furball just for furballing's sake. For one, I don't enjoy it much, for anther I don't survive it much :-)
Regards
2nd Lt. Darling
Training Officer
332nd FG "Flying Mongrels"
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would be fun if we could get the furballers to furball over strat targets. The best furballs happen there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) They dont last long, but are very intense.
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Tac is right. A change to arena design which would tend to concentrate the exciting fights in the vicinity of the high-value-strat targets (whatever they may be) is what we need. Currently when a base is attacked, the VH and FH go down and you end up with 20 attackers milling about waiting (usually futiley) for a C-47. Fun this is not.
Hooligan
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deja there are plenty of things that can be done to increase the furballers fun and not take away from the strat guys fun.
Several simple ones would be to make fighters available until the field was closed or allmost closed and making the carrier groups bigger. You could even make the fields eaiser to close and capture along with having fighters available till the end.
Tac has it right... the fights are fun around the "strat" they just don't last very long. People are happiest when they are getting to fight.
You can't end the gangbanging but with fighters available till the end, quicker field closing, bigger carrier groups... the gangbanging would lessen. Right now it is the rule after the first minute or so of combat/fighter hanger deroofing.
I don't see what you like about the current gangbang setup. I personally don't like to be gangbanged and I don't really like fighting for scraps. I think everyone agrees that large fights with fairly even numbers are the most fun. If there is a purpose, so much the better.
lazs
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I prefer 1v1's 2v2's 3v3s 4v4s or less good odds to massive furballs, where it's basically just fly shoot fly, and survival seems to be as much a matter of luck (or keeping speed up) as anything else.
Nothing beats a squad vs squad meeting where you have to THINK, not just aim and click.
Eat that, idiot furballers. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
P.s 17:5 in Zeke first time i took it up in a furball. All in less than 30 minutes. EZ mode.
Muahahah
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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
Staffelkapitän 9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"
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Call me a dweeb if you like, the most fun I've ever had online was back at WB ACA when ACA had relaxed realism but all main features such as squads and field takes..
There were always huge fights, reds attacking others with numbers and the others defending the best they could..
Because the fields were close to eachothers and buffs couldn't kill a field with 1 pass, the result was an awesome flow of planes in a furball.. With some of the more experienced players E fighting in middle.
Field taking was challenging and fun since you had to penetrate a wall of enemy to be able to drop.. It was the low point of my online life when ien closed the fun for good.
I was lucky to find AH and of course now there is no going back to the relaxed FM or soap(tm) hit bubbles.. But my point is: IF HT did it once, he can surely do it again.. Bring the fun back in the game! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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upi can't tell jab that he is having fun and just doesn't know it.... you can't tell us that there are plenty of places to fight... mrsid is right... Holligan is right and I'm right... we need purpose and opportunity.
even santa get's it in a simplistic, self serving, lw sorta way.... 2v2 3vs3 4vs4 whatever... it's all better than what the arena has turned into now. the fields are too easily de-fightered and then there is nothing but a lopsided fight if any at all. The idiotic perk system and addition of more and more late war, fast planes has made the arena a very timid and animosity filled place lately...
fact is.... everyone is having more fun at the places on the map that are fairly close together with a lot of planes and more or less evenly matched numbers.... Fact is... those places are fun only until some attention starved idiot or anti fun jerk drops a couple of buildings and ruins it... fact is.... It's just too darn easy for said skilless jerk to do it.
lazs
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This is what 'cha need:
Anyone remember "BOB BOB BOB" calls in WB's beta? (Confirmed Kill)?
Have an arena (Dueling Arena) where you 'join a mission', but this 'mission' is just a flight roster with the Aircraft already pre-determined (by the mission maker?) while the opponent is also joining their mission. There are a pre-determined number of slots (equal) for each side. When the mission fills up, the flight auto take-off's or air launches. Pilots simply fly straight ahead after launching until they run into the enemy. Either have a AI make random missions up or have the mission creator have control over it, just as long as he has control over the enemy mission too so one person can easily do the simple work of posting the mission for everyone involved...or have an AI auto-generate it.
This sort of thing could be used in our current Dueling arena with some edits to the mission planner to allow a player to add a mission for both sides. One could log into the arena and a panel would pop up showing which flights were 'in-flight' and which are awaiting pilots to fill the roster in order to launch. Have the mission editor allow 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 4 vs 4, 8 vs 8, 16 vs 16.
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-09-2001).]