Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: DREDIOCK on December 02, 2012, 01:31:34 AM
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8800Gt went haywire on me right in the middle of a fight
Ok whats a decent upgrade without breaking the bank?
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PCIe? AGPx8? What power supply? What CPU will it run alongside?
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8800Gt went haywire on me right in the middle of a fight
Ok whats a decent upgrade without breaking the bank?
It depends on your bank. How much are you prepared to spend? For 200 bucks you can get something that you can play with for the next 2 years in double digit fps.
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Those 8800 were crap in the first place. I'm not sure what not breaking the bank is but I went with a 660 TI. Quite happy I did.
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I had posted a while back about upgrading the card when the newest version of AH came out because I wasnt able to run the game with the level of detail I wanted. Turned out MY AV wasnt running in gamer mode like it was supposed to all the time. Anywho.
I was running with this setup with most settings near maxed out and shadows on and would only get some occasional stuttering in huge furballs with frame rates that ranged from 40-70 FPS.
Lately it had gotten a bit worse but I thought it was my connection. Last night had two kills in the bag and was going for an easy 3rd when the screen went all blocky. Rebooting only produced very lovely but unwelcome colored green vertical lines evenly spaced across my screen.
Thankfully I have like 4 old but working machines here and one happened to have a 256 meg Nvidia GEForce 6200 card as my motherboard only supports VGA and my monitor doesnt LOL
ANYWAY
Here is what I have. Im planning on upgrading to Windows 7 or 8 in the not too distant future if I need to
Case - Rosewill R5605-BK.
Motherboard - GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775
CPU - Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz.
Hard Drive - Western Digital Caviar Black WD7501AALS 750GB.
Video Card - EVGA 512-P3-N801-AR GeForce 8800 GT 512MB.
Power supply - PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS750QBL 750W
Memory - Kingston HyperX 4GB (4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066
CD/DVD - LG 22X DVD±R DVD Burner with LightScribe Black SATA Model GH22LS30
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http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107.html
Take a look, it's always updated every month so it should be always up to date.
I personally would go for a 7870 if I can.
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I have an 8800 GTS here. $30 and I'll ship it to you if you want. Let me know.
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Those 8800 were crap in the first place. I'm not sure what not breaking the bank is but I went with a 660 TI. Quite happy I did.
That wasnt the general consensus here 4 1/2 years ago. And quite honestly. I've been pretty pleased with its performance. In fact someone here told me I shouldnt be able to run the game well at the in game settings I had when the latest version of AH came out. And I probably shouldnt have been able to.
But It did.
Its was a bang for buck build
I usually figure a system will last me 5 years before I could use a total rebuild after upgrading teh video card at least once. But for what I do now (AH is really the only game I play). This should still last me a while yet. Still. Im almost surprised I havent had to upgrade the card sooner
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I have an 8800 GTS here. $30 and I'll ship it to you if you want. Let me know.
Let me consider that as an option. (in other words . Dont sell it yet LOL)
Let me see whats out there first and let me weigh the pros and cons.
Thank you very much for the offer
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That wasnt the general consensus here 4 1/2 years ago. And quite honestly. I've been pretty pleased with its performance. In fact someone here told me I shouldnt be able to run the game well at the in game settings I had when the latest version of AH came out. And I probably shouldnt have been able to.
But It did.
Its was a bang for buck build
I usually figure a system will last me 5 years before I could use a total rebuild after upgrading teh video card at least once. But for what I do now (AH is really the only game I play). This should still last me a while yet. Still. Im almost surprised I havent had to upgrade the card sooner
I used a 8800gt for a long time myself.I used a late model so it was close to a 9800. The older 8800 when they came out were were a good card and very popular.
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I would switch the power supply to a Seasonic brand. PC Power & Cooling no longer makes power supplies. They are just a name now and OCZ (owner of the PC P&C name) will milk it until they no longer make any difference in sales.
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I've got an xfx 6950 2gb ill sell ya
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I would switch the power supply to a Seasonic brand. PC Power & Cooling no longer makes power supplies. They are just a name now and OCZ (owner of the PC P&C name) will milk it until they no longer make any difference in sales.
LOL.
This is the system I built 4 years ago when PCP&C was still a good brand
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Drediock: I have almost exactly the same system as you: 3GHz E8400 on a GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L MB (I think even the RAM is identical). I just upgraded from an HD4850 to an MSI R7870 GPU. I was not impressed. I can set the GPU to very high antialiasing (4x SSAA) without any fps penalty, but the absolute fps, on certain terrains or with lots of planes/vehicles in view, are not that much better than the old 4850 and sometimes fall to 30 fps. The performance is odd: it is so-so no matter what options I select for eye-candy in AH (except environment, which kills fps). Also, the load balancing between the two cores of the CPU is odd; one pegs at nearly 100% while the other coasts at 25%. With the old card (and old drivers) the second CPU was used more. The 7870 had just as many, if not more, artifacts as the 4850 had, including z-fighting (seeing the interior textures of distant barns when you should be seeing the outside, seeing the road through maprooms etc.) The only good thing the R7870 has going for it is it is much cooler and quieter than my old 4850 (it's pretty much silent compared to my case fans).
So I guess this would be a negative recommendation for the R7870.
[grass off, detail range max, object detail max, bump map on, environ. map off, shadows on, smoothed, 4K, shadow others off, detailed water and terrain on, bump map terrain on, water reflection on, bump map buildings on, bump map other vehicles on, buildings cast shadows on. CCC 12.8 (downgrading to an older version actually lowered fps by 6%).]
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Drediock: I have almost exactly the same system as you: 3GHz E8400 on a GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L MB (I think even the RAM is identical). I just upgraded from an HD4850 to an MSI R7870 GPU. I was not impressed. I can set the GPU to very high antialiasing (4x SSAA) without any fps penalty, but the absolute fps, on certain terrains or with lots of planes/vehicles in view, are not that much better than the old 4850 and sometimes fall to 30 fps. The performance is odd: it is so-so no matter what options I select for eye-candy in AH (except environment, which kills fps). Also, the load balancing between the two cores of the CPU is odd; one pegs at nearly 100% while the other coasts at 25%. With the old card (and old drivers) the second CPU was used more. The 7870 had just as many, if not more, artifacts as the 4850 had, including z-fighting (seeing the interior textures of distant barns when you should be seeing the outside, seeing the road through maprooms etc.) The only good thing the R7870 has going for it is it is much cooler and quieter than my old 4850 (it's pretty much silent compared to my case fans).
So I guess this would be a negative recommendation for the R7870.
[grass off, detail range max, object detail max, bump map on, environ. map off, shadows on, smoothed, 4K, shadow others off, detailed water and terrain on, bump map terrain on, water reflection on, bump map buildings on, bump map other vehicles on, buildings cast shadows on. CCC 12.8 (downgrading to an older version actually lowered fps by 6%).]
AH is extremely reliant on CPU. Check out my thread and how I figured it out.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=341708.0
If you had played other games, ones that utilizes theGPU to its max potential, you would've seen a much better FPS.
I upgraded from a Radeon 5570 to a 6870 (slightly slower than a 7870), and my FPS in AH did not improve at all. My FPS in other games (Battlefield 3, Rise of Flight, Crysis/Crysis 2, etc etc) did, from 20-30FPS on low at lowered resolution to 60FPS on max settings at 1080p.
I had a Core2Duo E7500 as well. I then went to a Q9550 @2.83Ghz. My FPS in AH jumped. I could set every detail on and still have 30+ FPS in conjunction with my 6870 (but in a remote area with only 1 or 2 planes around). However, I prefer to have a solid 60fps through out (even in big 30+ players areas), so I lowered the unnecessary details.
TLDR: AH is 75% CPU 25% GPU. Upgrading your GPU isn't going to do much. However, if you play other games, then it is a very well spent investment and a 7870 is a very good card.
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Umm. Guys. I just need to know what would be a better card then the 8800GT
Worst comes to worst I'll eventually redo the entire system around the video card
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Umm. Guys. I just need to know what would be a better card then the 8800GT
Worst comes to worst I'll eventually redo the entire system around the video card
Well what's your budget? The GTX 690 is the fastest GPU out there but it's $1000. :joystick: :eek:
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I want somethign that doesnt break the bank. Say between $125 anf $150 or so.
Preferably EVGA so I dont have to change drivers
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Well what's your budget? The GTX 690 are the fastest GPUs out there but it's $1000. :joystick: :eek:
Fixed but not actually true. Two GTX 680s are faster with the same number of GPUs.
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I want somethign that doesnt break the bank. Say between $125 anf $150 or so.
Preferably EVGA so I dont have to change drivers
A GTX 650Ti, or Radeon 7770. Both are $120-140. If you want EVGA, go with the 650Ti. Oh, and you can look around on Amazon or eBay if you're feeling risky for used cards, I bought a used 6870 for only $110. Original price was $190. ;)
Fixed but not actually true. Two GTX 680s are faster with the same number of GPUs.
Well, single slot GPU(s?). There's photos of a quad GTX 690 setup. Which is....insane to say the least.
EDIT: Found it. :eek: :joystick:
(http://www.ozone3d.net/public/jegx/201204/nvidia-geforce-gtx690-board-quad-sli.jpg)
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Drediock, as you know your and my systems are very close to one another and it actually looks as though you listened closely to my recomendations at the time of your build (just after mine).
My question to you is this; did you ever take the cover off your video card to give it a good cleaning?
I'm just curious as my old 8800 GTS is still running great but it did have the advantage of the dual slot heat exhaust. I've had mine apart twice in about five years and the first time the heatsink was caked in dust.
BTW my PCP&C 750 (same timeframe) died and I replaced it with an 850W modular Corsair.
As to your question, if I'm remembering things right, I'd go with a 560ti or 660ti at this point, stock clock then OC it through NTune if you want to.
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Drediock, as you know your and my systems are very close to one another and it actually looks as though you listened closely to my recomendations at the time of your build (just after mine).
My question to you is this; did you ever take the cover off your video card to give it a good cleaning?
I'm just curious as my old 8800 GTS is still running great but it did have the advantage of the dual slot heat exhaust. I've had mine apart twice in about five years and the first time the heatsink was caked in dust.
BTW my PCP&C 750 (same timeframe) died and I replaced it with an 850W modular Corsair.
As to your question, if I'm remembering things right, I'd go with a 560ti or 660ti at this point, stock clock then OC it through NTune if you want to.
Actually I take a shop vac to the entire thing a few times a year. Never had the cover off of the card untill I just popped it out. It had some stuff on there. But wasnt caked.
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LOL.
This is the system I built 4 years ago when PCP&C was still a good brand
Sorry, I misread. Thought that was a list of things to buy. I was in "build" mode.
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AH is extremely reliant on CPU. Check out my thread and how I figured it out.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=341708.0
If you had played other games, ones that utilizes theGPU to its max potential, you would've seen a much better FPS.
I upgraded from a Radeon 5570 to a 6870 (slightly slower than a 7870), and my FPS in AH did not improve at all. My FPS in other games (Battlefield 3, Rise of Flight, Crysis/Crysis 2, etc etc) did, from 20-30FPS on low at lowered resolution to 60FPS on max settings at 1080p.
I had a Core2Duo E7500 as well. I then went to a Q9550 @2.83Ghz. My FPS in AH jumped. I could set every detail on and still have 30+ FPS in conjunction with my 6870 (but in a remote area with only 1 or 2 planes around). However, I prefer to have a solid 60fps through out (even in big 30+ players areas), so I lowered the unnecessary details.
TLDR: AH is 75% CPU 25% GPU. Upgrading your GPU isn't going to do much. However, if you play other games, then it is a very well spent investment and a 7870 is a very good card.
This contains a lot of bad information. Not sure where to start. The testing methods was flawed. Just FYI.
If you update a video card (actually going to a faster card) and do not see an improvement in the frame rates, it is due to the cards resources being consumed or the CPU being the gating factor. Yes, changing the CPU will also help as good flight simulators do demand more from the CPU than those other games you mentioned.
In any game, if you are CPU bound, a better video card is not going to help.
In any game, if you are video card bound, a better CPU is not going to help.
Matching the right CPU to the right video will deliver a balanced system. Flight sims require more CPU than other games, so you want more CPU to start with.
Aces High can resource starve any video card on the market, at the moment.
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This contains a lot of bad information. Not sure where to start. The testing methods was flawed. Just FYI.
If you update a video card (actually going to a faster card) and do not see an improvement in the frame rates, it is due to the cards resources being consumed or the CPU being the gating factor. Yes, changing the CPU will also help as good flight simulators do demand more from the CPU than those other games you mentioned.
In any game, if you are CPU bound, a better video card is not going to help.
In any game, if you are video card bound, a better CPU is not going to help.
Matching the right CPU to the right video will deliver a balanced system. Flight sims require more CPU than other games, so you want more CPU to start with.
Aces High can resource starve any video card on the market, at the moment.
How come MSI Afterburner only showed 70% usage when I turned on 8192 shadows? Turning it down to 4096 drops the usage to 30-40%. This was the only thing affecting my GPU usage. Even the environmental slider changed practically nothing. If AH could starve any GPU, what settings does it? Antialiasing aside and at 1920x1080 resolution.
As for AH demanding more CPU than other games...running BF3 even on low pushes my CPU (Q9550) to near 80-85C (I don't play it long so I don't worry about it). Running AH, temps are around 60-70.
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How come MSI Afterburner only showed 70% usage when I turned on 8192 shadows? Turning it down to 4096 drops the usage to 30-40%. This was the only thing affecting my GPU usage. Even the environmental slider changed practically nothing. If AH could starve any GPU, what settings does it? Antialiasing aside and at 1920x1080 resolution.
As for AH demanding more CPU than other games...running BF3 even on low pushes my CPU (Q9550) to near 80-85C (I don't play it long so I don't worry about it). Running AH, temps are around 60-70.
How the hardware is apportioned to handle the requested resources is not in control of the game, or any application. It is in control of the driver. The resource load is portioned out, into system RAM, as the driver see fits.
The tool you are using is never going to be able to tell what the actual resources a game is asking for. Only the game developer will have access to the real demand the application is asking for.
According to your information, computers with Intel video chips should run the game no different than an ATI 7990 as long as you have a fast enough CPU. Good luck with that.
In a perfect computer system, all the hardware would be under equal loads with no one piece of hardware waiting on the other piece. Does Aces High benefit from a fast CPU? Absolutely. Does it benefit from a high end video card? Absolutely. The trick is to marry the two items in a way where both are running as fast as they can, all the time.
If your video card is the bottleneck, the CPU will not be under as high a load as it could be. If the CPU is a bottleneck, the video card will not be under as high of a load as it could be. If the video card is forced to use the CPU for resources, then everything gets out of balance, quickly and the system will basically stumble around with nothing running at its highest potential.
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Dred, I run a system that's very similar to what you have (Corsair 700w PSU, and 4Gb DDR3 though). I've got an XFX ATi 6870, and I've found it to be a pretty decent pairing to the e8400. I run most of the eye candy (no shadows on others), a little bit of A.A., and usually hold a solid 60 fps in almost all situations. Even in a large furball, I only see drops of <5 fps.