Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: bangsbox on December 08, 2012, 03:12:33 PM
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Tank killer Stuka change eny to 28-30
Why: it is slow, can't take hits like il2, doesn't carry ords, and very limited ammo.
It's gun only kills tank when rounds hit at flat angles and it requires 4hits/two bursts to kill tanks 70-80% of the time. This plane should not have same eny as il2 which is much more versatile and a better tank killer. And I believe that
eny affects how much some rides are taken(at least for me, I'm a perk farmer).
M8 change eny to 50. It has very weak gun ap and he, it can be killed with a machine gun. It should not have same eny as early panzer which has a decent gun and can take hits (most of the time).
Fw190a8: change eny back to 31. Where she belongs at at least compromise and make it 28.
Other than take I can live with all other eny
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M8's ENY is due to its sheer speed. The only reason why a M8 would get killed by machine guns is because of irresponsibility. Just like how a King Tiger would get bombed because it was left out in the open.
M8's are more than capable of knocking out flak panzers and regular panzers by hitting them in the side of the turret.
TBH, the M8 is right where it should be. And if firepower is what you need, there is a nearly as fast M18 to play with
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Kills 2 bombers from a 3 bomber box 3000ft away with one tap of the trigger. Wins HO's with tiffy and survives the head on 20mm and plucks the wings from Doras on the fly like shooting skeet. You just need a better gunsight and full zoom.
Now if Hitech would get rid of the gamey commanders view one shot wonder kill of attaker planes........or allow the commander to die becasue his head is outside the turret and shrapnel from round strikes on the tank in real life would decapatate him. He already allows the guns in the open top wirbel to be destroyed that way but, the player is Superman and resistant to bullets. In real life the crew died.
Hmmmm, then you would need a 3D crew compartment with a driver who lives through that and takes command of the tank after the commander or gun crew gets his\their head(s) blown off. anyone remember in Saving Prvt Ryan when the 20mm opened up on the troopers trying to attach sticky bombs to the panzer tank? The rounds and the sharpnel cut them into baxon bits. The AH GV game reminds me of playing a RoboMech game with single shot main guns. I keep waiting to see a King Tiger stand up and walk off across the battel feild. We pilots die all the time to a golden BB in the cockpit. But. tank commanders are Superman.
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M8's ENY is due to its sheer speed. The only reason why a M8 would get killed by machine guns is because of irresponsibility. Just like how a King Tiger would get bombed because it was left out in the open.
M8's are more than capable of knocking out flak panzers and regular panzers by hitting them in the side of the turret.
TBH, the M8 is right where it should be. And if firepower is what you need, there is a nearly as fast M18 to play with
Yes she's fast but you still need to be within 200 to kill panzers from the rear and flank and you still need 2 shots to do it. And yes it can turret a flak with one round but will take at least two more to kill it and also it has to be in the flank. I also think that flaks kill m8s with ease.
As for 190a8 she has been 31 for longer than she's been 25... I think 28 is a good compromise
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As for 190a8 she has been 31 for longer than she's been 25... I think 28 is a good compromise
The Fw190A-8 is used pretty heavily. That is likely the reason behind the ENY being lowered to 25.
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also i think me410 should be 3-5 more eny than me110. handling is crap, and 110 is a better destroyer
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The only vessel in Aces High that should have an ENY of 50 is the goon because it has no way of being on the offensive, it is always on the defensive. Even the lowly jeep has more of a chance of surviving contact with the enemy.
The 190A-8 is a beast, it is one of the best bomber hunters in the game thanks to its quad 20mm or dual 30mm/dual 20mm cannon options. The thing it is not though is a dog fighter, it has a very small bag of tricks with firepower and roll rate being about its only trump cards, and perhaps dive speed and energy retention. Otherwise, it certainly can not turn, climb, or accelerate. Once it gets below 200mph just bail and be done with it. Use it for what it was designed for and you'll see that the current ENY is not far out of line.
The M8 has saved more than 1 field from capture. It offers a lot of speed and a high rate of fire for troop carrier interdiction. Arm it with a 40/40 mix of AP and HE. Use the HE on everything other than tanks (yes, even vs FLAKS the HE wil lmore easily damage turret than AP, ditto vs M18's, M3's, etc), and confront tank only on their flanks or rear and get within 600 yards or so. Best bet is to keep moving and do what an M8 does best: scout and interdict.
Oh, and if you think that these three vessels are the only one in AH that need adjustment may I suggest you take some more time and learn the library a bit better. There are a whole host of aircraft and gv's that need adjustment.
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also i think me410 should be 3-5 more eny (..) and 110 is a better destroyer
The 110 is a much better attacker / fighter bomber, but a better destroyer? Absolutely not. The 410 is far superior in anti-buff firepower, being able to kills bombers outside their defensive fire range either by the sniping 50mm gun or the most devastating gun package in game, the twin Mk-103.
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i'm rather well read read...i am a scholar of history(by degrees) and i spend way too much time in library and archives as it is. As for other rides you have problems with post something about it. this one is mine :banana:
anyway, if the M8 were 50 or 5 eny it would still be used as a scout(which stork does better anyway, and who the Hill scouts with an M8 lol)/ m3 hunting and would have no bearing on its usage for that role. increasing eny from 40 to 50 is only so you could get a perk or 2 more for killing early panzer that shares eny with M8 and panzer(early) is a much better platform for killing vehicles, shelling towns, and killing guns. ENY is a risk and reward system. take a crappie ride and kill a sweet ride get more perks than using a sweet ride to kill a crappie ride. ipso facto an M8 should get more perks for killing an early panzer than a panzer(early) should get for killing an M8
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The 110 is a much better attacker / fighter bomber, but a better destroyer? Absolutely not. The 410 is far superior in anti-buff firepower, being able to kills bombers outside their defensive fire range either by the sniping 50mm gun or the most devastating gun package in game, the twin Mk-103.
sorry i meant offensive/assault/ground attack which "Zerstörer"s where tasked with after not living up to the doctrine of carrying lots of guns and escort buff on offensive operations and they got swept from skies by escort fighters when the role changed to buff killer (excluding night fighter role which it still did well). The AH 110 is a ground pounder and the 410 is just not as good at it and in addition to that, the 410 has horrible handling compared to 110. So you are you saying just for the occasional buff hunt (and hope theres no fighters within a sector), this plane deserves the same eny as the 110?
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So you are you saying just for the occasional buff hunt (and hope theres no fighters within a sector), this plane deserves the same eny as the 110?
Yes, just for the ability to kill bombers with impunity from their six oclock. Even the dreaded 262 or the 110 have to face the defensive fire at some point. Of course it sucks vs fighters, but then the 110 ain't exactly "worth" it's low ENY in fighter-vs-fighter combat too (same goes for the Lancaster for example).
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Yes, just for the ability to kill bombers with impunity from their six oclock. Even the dreaded 262 or the 110 have to face the defensive fire at some point. Of course it sucks vs fighters, but then the 110 ain't exactly "worth" it's low ENY in fighter-vs-fighter combat too (same goes for the Lancaster for example).
it doesnt take much :joystick: to make 2k+ shot almost impossible.
and im thinking we are talking whole package of what plane brings to the game and how much it can effect the game/war... anyone who can get 2k+kills with that gun(rookies cant dispersion is a big problem at that range) can also figure our how to make solid passes on buff with 'almost' impunity. a "rookie" 110 can take out so much more of a base than a rookie 410 pilot can take out buffs. also i think many good pilots dont fly the 410 is because it doesnt have a good "Risk Reward" ratio. isnt that what eny is for in the first place a risk reward ratio that can tell u ad some point "your side is loosing, so here is a better reward for taking out a crappie ride."
For the lanc...she is a game changing aircraft, it has the best payload for the eny(ju88 also needs a higher eny). At alt, she is not the easiest buff to catch and get into position with; when down low she can change the out come of gv battle (for a while) with 18 500lber bombs and still have a coockie(4000lber) left and still defend its self well(for a buff).
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it doesnt take much :joystick: to make 2k+ shot almost impossible.
Who's talking about 2k+?
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it doesnt take much :joystick: to make 2k+ shot almost impossible.
and im thinking we are talking whole package of what plane brings to the game and how much it can effect the game/war... anyone who can get 2k+kills with that gun(rookies cant dispersion is a big problem at that range) can also figure our how to make solid passes on buff with 'almost' impunity. a "rookie" 110 can take out so much more of a base than a rookie 410 pilot can take out buffs. also i think many good pilots dont fly the 410 is because it doesnt have a good "Risk Reward" ratio. isnt that what eny is for in the first place a risk reward ratio that can tell u ad some point "your side is loosing, so here is a better reward for taking out a crappie ride."
For the lanc...she is a game changing aircraft, it has the best payload for the eny(ju88 also needs a higher eny). At alt, she is not the easiest buff to catch and get into position with; when down low she can change the out come of gv battle (for a while) with 18 500lber bombs and still have a coockie(4000lber) left and still defend its self well(for a buff).
The Lancaster carries an ordnance load second only to the B29, but in terms of defensive armament it is lacking. It does have two .50's in the tail, but they are short on ammo. Otherwise it has dual .30's in a dorsal turret and dual .30's in the nose. If the attacking fighter pilot has patience enough to get into position *ahead* of the Lancs it makes for an much better chance of survival. The Lancs are tough as well. Oh, they dont climb the best when loaded down either. If escorted properly, the Lancs and their 14/1000 bombs are devastating.
You mention the Ju88's. They currently have a better OBJ score than the B17's, what for no one seems to know. The Ju88's really only have 4400 lbs of useful ordnance, and if you want to speak of a weak defensive armament in the medium/heavy bomber department the Ju88's are it. Nothing to the front and very limited to the flanks. Only to the dead six does it have a chance of defending itself. Climb, speed, and range are all poor for medium/heavy bombers.
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I have killed buffs from 2k+ with 410 And even got a vulch kills on a set from 4k+ but that was lucky lol. I only would like to see the 410 a couple of eny more than 110 in hope that it increases usage a little. I always take rides with little higher eny for perks. I posted this in hopes to get eny changed for really the M8, and Stuka(tank killer) so they might be seen more often in MA. And also the 410.
I would like to see 190a8 get a little higher eny too. I don't fly it as much as I used to once they changed eny, I switched to mossie instead because its a 30 and gives me more perks per flight.
And maybe if ju88 were higher eny or obj we would see them more. And that's again why I posted this. I think incentive to take certain rides out is not enough to sway player to use them. Of course there are the players that don't care about perks, but I think since we have more and more perk rides new player will want to earn perks with rides that can give them that quicker. Especially in the GV department. Right now we are seeing mostly early panzers and t34/85s because killing any tank in a early panzer (which is very possible even with 1shot) earns you enough perks to take out a t85. We see almost no M8s because it is very hard to kill anything and the risk reward is not high enough to use them compared to the early panzer.
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I see your point on the ENY scoring, I too have issues the current gv ENY structure. The scale is not weighed accurately, imo, at least in LW arena.
40 ENY:
jeep
M3
SdKfz 251
M4/75
Pzr IV F 1/2
T34/76
LVT's
Storch
35 ENY:
M16
25 ENY:
Ostwind
Pzr IV H
20 ENY:
T34/85
M18
18 ENY:
M4/76mm
15 ENY:
Firefly
Wirblewind
12 ENY:
Panther
10 ENY:
Tiger
5 ENY:
King Tiger
If 40 is the *weakest*, and 1 is the absolute best, then I think HTC should explore moving the King Tiger down to 2, Tiger down to 5, and the Panther down to 10. We're talking about the epitome of tanks in WWII, those three tanks ultimately ruled the battlefields and anything HTC brings along after those three will be hard pressed to best that trio. Then, the middle tiered tanks such as the Firefly, M4/76, T34/85, M18, and Pzr IV H all could use a slight drop on the scale. Point being, the only gv's that should be at 40 should be the weakest of the weak and the Jeep, Storch, and maybe the LVT-2 deserve that score, imo. Otherwise, the M3 is no longer an automatic pushover thanks to the 75mm, the LVT 4 can lay waste to a town, the T34/76 is the fastest tank in AH and is well armored (M18 is TD), and the M4/75mm Calliope is unsurpassed when it comes to decimating a town. The Panzer IV F2 ultimately matches the T34/85's AP ability, fire faster, and can carry %50 more ammo. Oh, and what else can carry troops and rain 28cm rockets on a town besides the SdKfz 251??? All but a couple 2 or 3 gv's should be bumped down from 40, imo.
Here is my suggestion for ENY values (based on main gun [AP/HE ability], armor, sights, speed, reload, and other attributes):
TANKS
King Tiger: 2
Tiger: 5
Panther: 10
Firefly: 15 (as is)
M4/76: 16
T34/85: 18
M18: 18
Pzr IV H: 22
Pzr IV F: 28
M4/75: 30
T34/76: 35
M8: 38
Support:
M3: 32
SdKfz 251: 35
LVT-4: 35
LVT-2: 38
Jeep 40 (as is)
Storch: 40 (as is)
Anti-Aircraft:
Wirblwind: 15 (as is)
Ostwind: 25 (as is)
M16: 35 (as is)
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Bangsbox,
If your concern is usage, if anything, the Fw190A-8 might need to be lowered more:
Tour 154:
Bf109G-14: Kills: 3998 Deaths: 3154
Fw190A-8: Kills: 6265 Deaths: 5408
Fw190D-9: Kills: 8738 Deaths: 5917
La-5FN: Kills: 817 Deaths: 737
P-51B: Kills: 3282 Deaths: 2368
Spitfire Mk VIII: Kills: 5351 Deaths: 5092
It seems to do quite well in comparison to the second stringers of other popular lines. Fw190D-9 included to show the standing of the first stringer in the Fw190 line.
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The k/d comparison of the 190d to 190a8 I think shows that the a8 should have a slight bump in eny. From what you posted.
And I really like to use M8 more but as things stand right now it doesn't make sense to not take the Early panzer over it. I think a change in M8s (and m3 and german half track)eny would rectify that. As for jeep and storch they are really the scouts and gv sup runner and you don't get perks for that anyway so an eny change I don't think is warranted. Also king tiger panther and tiger as it stands if you get 10+ kills your only getting practically a perk or 2 any so changes to there eny don't really matter.
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Good thread, IMHO the LWMA aircraft Enys could use some overhauling, it's too generalized with there being too many aircraft selections available.
I also think, especialy when taking into consideration the learning curve(s), newer players need "easier" perk points.
And then there's the "seasoned" players who need more perk point dumps, you really cache some up over time.
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The k/d comparison of the 190d to 190a8 I think shows that the a8 should have a slight bump in eny. From what you posted.
Why?
The Spitfire Mk VIII's ENY is far, far lower than the Fw190A-8 and it shows lower usage and a worse K/D ratio. As I said, if anything the Fw190A-8 needs a lower ENY. Requesting that it be raised is only a request to get bonus perk points for using a relatively common and effective fighter.
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The spit8 is a staple plane flown by newbies much like the 51 and it's k/d is reflective of that. They own in MA and are used as learner rides by many. And yes I do want to eny for more perks out of A8 sorties. That's the main point for eny (at least I use it that way lol). And it's kick down from its historical 31 to 25 is prob the biggest drop in AH history and I think a boost to 28 is not unreasonable.
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The spit8 is a staple plane flown by newbies much like the 51 and it's k/d is reflective of that. They own in MA and are used as learner rides by many. And yes I do want to eny for more perks out of A8 sorties. That's the main point for eny (at least I use it that way lol). And it's kick down from its historical 31 to 25 is prob the biggest drop in AH history and I think a boost to 28 is not unreasonable.
It is unreasonable. The usage level of the Fw190A-8 and its K/D ratio are both much higher than other aircraft in that category. It doesn't warrant a higher ENY. Its ENY should probably be more in the 20 or 22 range.
If the Spit VIII were a staple plane its usage would be higher than the Fw190A-8s, not lower.
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Well it's a British staple like 51 for Americans. I would at spit 16 but I wouldn't think neebies like clipped winged spits
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Well it's a British staple like 51 for Americans. I would at spit 16 but I wouldn't think neebies like clipped winged spits
As a comparison:
Tour 154:
P-51D: Kills: 20793 Deaths: 17719
Spitfire Mk XVI: Kills: 13382 Deaths: 11884
As you can see, the first stringers of those lines have a much larger lead over the second stringers than the Fw190D-9 has over the Fw190A-8.
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without a radiator that in AH extends out to its spinner, D9 would be eny 10