Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: TheMercinary60 on December 09, 2012, 07:42:22 AM
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though i might as well ask here for some suggestions, ive pretty much figured out i want an external frame pack, preferably pretty big to hold everything and the kitchen sink, looking for an external frame so in a pinch i could tie some ammo cans on since im not sure how else i could get them around, any suggestions would be appreciated
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Not many companies still make external frame packs. Internal frame packs pretty much dominate the market now.
I would suggest Mystery Ranch. www.mysteryranch.com Made in my former hometown Bozeman, MT. In addition to civilain stuff, they make a lot of packs for military special forces, so you know it's tough stuff. They have a modular system called NICEframe that might be what you're looking for, one frame with dozens of different bags and accessories that can attach to it.
It's expensive stuff I know, but it is also top notch quality, and they are paying American labor (they actually pay their workers quite well) not Chinese or Vietnamese.
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One of these served me just fine for six years in the Army, and I have one of my own for long hikes:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/used-us-military-surplus-large-alice-pack-with-metal-frame.aspx?a=721849
You may want to add extra padding under the shoulder straps. It wasn't uncommon to see soldiers attach a layer of thin foam to the straps. It helps out on those 12+ mile marches.
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Google kelty external frame pack. I had one in the late 70’s early 80's and at that time they were the gold standard even with metal zippers.
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Google kelty external frame pack. I had one in the late 70’s early 80's and at that time they were the gold standard even with metal zippers.
I guarentee they still make it or an improoved version of it. I bought mine in ~'99-00
http://www.kelty.com/c-backpacks.aspx#subcategory=external-frame
I love my Kelty external frame pack - light, tough, versatile, and been tested/improoved through generations of backpackers. Couple carabeeners and some webbing should hold anything to it, you can remoove the pack part to clean (or remoove for just the frame with straps, or conjure up your own custom pack to swap on with custom tailored pouches). They also make some very excellent internal frame packs that I'd recomend for wetter conditions (I've personaly seen more than a couple come out of surf, rivers, lakes and drenching downpours dryer than anything else that went along with it (although just one or two black trash bags solve many issues with any external frame).
If you're new to backpacking, most important thing (besides a god pair of boots/shoes and dry socks) is to remember that all the weight in the pack should be resting and carried on your hips and that strap around you, so make sure it does that (and can be adjusted to do it) well.
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Cabelas
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&fsch=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=alaskan+pack&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products
68valu
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This never failed me in Bosnia/Kosovo/Afghanistan/Iraq:
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/10/16/health/16purses.533span.jpg)
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That's exactly how I feel when I have to carry my Air Force-issue chem gear bag around.
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This one is easy...
Large ALICE pack.
Room for everything including ammunition, small children and large pets.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/1114100749a.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/165634_1682822224333_1050910708_31861652_274677_n.jpg)
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Cabelas
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&fsch=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=alaskan+pack&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products
68valu
They're discontinueing big and tall sizes, me and the rest of my family are boycotting them now.
/endhijack
This one is easy...
Large ALICE pack.
Room for everything including ammunition, small children and large pets.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/1114100749a.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/165634_1682822224333_1050910708_31861652_274677_n.jpg)
Note the Kelty pack in the background of the first pic, bringing up the slack. :devil :aok
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They're discontinueing big and tall sizes, me and the rest of my family are boycotting them now.
/endhijack
Note the Kelty pack in the background of the first pic, bringing up the slack. :devil :aok
I see you're a Kelty fan.
All I have to say is that in the last decade or so the quality of Kelty gear has dropped significantly. Up to the mid 90's I would have to qualms about recommending a Kelty pack or tent to someone... ... now I'd stay away from them however.
To the OP, for what it's worth, I would at least TRY an internal frame pack first. Generally speaking they are much more comfortable, and practical. And any decent one will have MOLLE points, or similar lash points to attach whatever you want to carry outside the bag.
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thanks for the advive, this is what i ended up getting, so well see how bad i screwed up :rofl
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alice-Pack-LARGE-Rucksack-Backpack-Army-USA-Military-VG-FREE-SHIPPING-/271116711254?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D333005%26algo%3DRIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D12%26meid%3D4096567265395574464%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D390508049155%26
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They're discontinueing big and tall sizes, me and the rest of my family are boycotting them now.
/endhijack
Note the Kelty pack in the background of the first pic, bringing up the slack. :devil :aok
I know you are joking, now :lol
I had food for both of us for 72 hours in my ruck, in addition to the tent, my rubber biatch, mess gear, 3 gallons of water (above and beyond the 2 quarts on my hips), revolver, hatchet, tinderbox/firestarter, extra pair of boots and 72 hours worth of clothes, etc.
When you absolutely have to carry a truck-load of crap, a large ALICE pack is the Cadillac of rucks. :aok
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I know you are joking, now :lol
I had food for both of us for 72 hours in my ruck, in addition to the tent, my rubber biatch, mess gear, 3 gallons of water (above and beyond the 2 quarts on my hips), revolver, hatchet, tinderbox/firestarter, extra pair of boots and 72 hours worth of clothes, etc.
When you absolutely have to carry a truck-load of crap, a large ALICE pack is the Cadillac of rucks. :aok
:huh
Don't know what you're on about with this "Cadillac" stuff. Fact is there are hundreds of packs out there that are bigger, lighter, more comfortable, more practical, more durable, and just better then the ALICE system for what you're doing. The ALICE system was great for the military in the 1980s, but there are much better solutions nowadays. There are many, many internal frame packs that could easily fit everything on that ALICE on the inside, and be lighter and more comfortable while doing it.
I've worked as a backpacking guide in the Wind River range Wyoming for 7 summers. And trust me, the kids who borrowed dad's old external frame pack from the 70's or 80's for their trip, always regretted it. Frame squeaking with every step, half their gear banging around lashed to the frame and falling off every mile or two, no load-lifter straps and no torso adjustment means the load never fit right, wearing them down, frame rubbing into shoulders, pins that hold the bag to the frame breaking. A good, proper fitting, properly loaded pack on trips like that is the difference between misery and ecstasy.
In my mind the ONLY thing external frames are good for now days is big game hunting, when you just need a bare frame to lash a quarter elk or deer to.
And why on earth are you carrying 3 1/2 gallons of water? That's over 20lbs man. :confused: Where are you camping, the Sahara?
Now I'm not afraid of roughing it, I've even been through a 2 week survival course in the Southern Utah desert where I wasn't allowed ANY pack (just a tarp and some rope). But given the choice, why be miserable? I'll take my nice high-tech, ultra-light, modern backpacking gear any day.
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thanks for the advive, this is what i ended up getting, so well see how bad i screwed up :rofl
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alice-Pack-LARGE-Rucksack-Backpack-Army-USA-Military-VG-FREE-SHIPPING-/271116711254?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D333005%26algo%3DRIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D12%26meid%3D4096567265395574464%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D2%26sd%3D390508049155%26
Well, for $44, how big of a screw up can it be? That has to be the cheapest you can find a pack of that size anywhere. Hope it works for you.
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:huh
Don't know what you're on about with this "Cadillac" stuff. Fact is ......
You might be more persuasive if you weren't condescending and pedantic.
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:huh
Don't know what you're on about with this "Cadillac" stuff. Fact is there are hundreds of packs out there that are bigger, lighter, more comfortable, more practical, more durable, and just better then the ALICE system for what you're doing. The ALICE system was great for the military in the 1980s, but there are much better solutions nowadays. There are many, many internal frame packs that could easily fit everything on that ALICE on the inside, and be lighter and more comfortable while doing it.
I've worked as a backpacking guide in the Wind River range Wyoming for 7 summers. And trust me, the kids who borrowed dad's old external frame pack from the 70's or 80's for their trip, always regretted it. Frame squeaking with every step, half their gear banging around lashed to the frame and falling off every mile or two, no load-lifter straps and no torso adjustment means the load never fit right, wearing them down, frame rubbing into shoulders, pins that hold the bag to the frame breaking. A good, proper fitting, properly loaded pack on trips like that is the difference between misery and ecstasy.
In my mind the ONLY thing external frames are good for now days is big game hunting, when you just need a bare frame to lash a quarter elk or deer to.
And why on earth are you carrying 3 1/2 gallons of water? That's over 20lbs man. :confused: Where are you camping, the Sahara?
Now I'm not afraid of roughing it, I've even been through a 2 week survival course in the Southern Utah desert where I wasn't allowed ANY pack (just a tarp and some rope). But given the choice, why be miserable? I'll take my nice high-tech, ultra-light, modern backpacking gear any day.
I suppose a lot of that is correct for those not familiar with the ALICE system. I have had mine for more years than my children have been around. It has served me well in many situations and sits in the corner, packed for 3 days excepting food and water. Old habits die hard.
Between having mine for so long and owning a sailboat for many years, my lashings never fall off an my knots do not fail. I have the packing of the load down to a science so it fits right for me. The only thing I have done to it is weld the frame in one spot were it failed and replaced the kidney pad. I'm not knocking new technology at all but I will use this until it no longer serves me well. I haven't tried any new stuff out because I haven't needed to, yet. I guess I have just grown sentimentally attached over the years.
As for the water? It was a scouting trip on the Appalachian Trail. It never fails that, regardless of much water scouts/parents are told to take, there are always a few that think, because it is November and chilly, they do not need as much water and they run out. I always bring extra for those folks. It is still less weight than carrying dehydrated people out of the bush :lol
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I suppose a lot of that is correct for those not familiar with the ALICE system. I have had mine for more years than my children have been around. It has served me well in many situations and sits in the corner, packed for 3 days excepting food and water. Old habits die hard.
Between having mine for so long and owning a sailboat for many years, my lashings never fall off an my knots do not fail. I have the packing of the load down to a science so it fits right for me. The only thing I have done to it is weld the frame in one spot were it failed and replaced the kidney pad. I'm not knocking new technology at all but I will use this until it no longer serves me well. I haven't tried any new stuff out because I haven't needed to, yet. I guess I have just grown sentimentally attached over the years.
As for the water? It was a scouting trip on the Appalachian Trail. It never fails that, regardless of much water scouts/parents are told to take, there are always a few that think, because it is November and chilly, they do not need as much water and they run out. I always bring extra for those folks. It is still less weight than carrying dehydrated people out of the bush :lol
It's all good, if it works for you it works. I did not mean to be "condescending and pedantic" sorry if that was the tone.
As for the water, I still don't get it... ... 20+lbs of water seems crazy to me. Aren't there quite a few streams/lakes along the Appalachian trail?
With each of the dozens of Scout trips I've guided I do a full pack "shake-down" with everyone in the group (scoutmasters included) before we hit the trail. Not only to make sure they have what they need (enough water) but also to get rid of the stuff they don't need. They usually thank me after I shave 10-20lbs off each of their packs.
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It's all good, if it works for you it works. I did not mean to be "condescending and pedantic" sorry if that was the tone.
As for the water, I still don't get it... ... 20+lbs of water seems crazy to me. Aren't there quite a few streams/lakes along the Appalachian trail?
With each of the dozens of Scout trips I've guided I do a full pack "shake-down" with everyone in the group (scoutmasters included) before we hit the trail. Not only to make sure they have what they need (enough water) but also to get rid of the stuff they don't need. They usually thank me after I shave 10-20lbs off each of their packs.
I didn't take it as being
You have never seen the scout troop my son was in. They were the antithesis of "Be Prepared" :O
On no less than two occasions, while at an "organized camping trip" (i.e. younger scouts, in cabins, with a pre-planned menu), they either ran out of, or completely forgot to pack one or more food items on the menu.
Scoutmaster was so fat that he could barely hike flat terrain without huffing and puffing.
Also found out that my son's den leader was a full-blown drunk (not an alcoholic that attends meetings) when he brought beer on the hike on the Appalachian trail while making his kid hump all their water and when he was out in the parking lot, sneaking beers at the Blue and Gold banquet instead of taking care of his den...
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After six years in the infantry I can tell you definitively that 3 1/2 gallons of water is a "good start." :old:
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I have two old school ALICE packs that I don't use. I bought me a replacement pack this past weekend.
I decided to get me a "bug out bag/pack" before leaving base on Saturday.
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(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/155832_10152383406965305_800996890_n_zps9d23c688.jpg)
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/306_10152383405725305_1442339115_n_zpsd4ea7973.jpg)
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/541693_10152383404935305_1545563473_n_zps38587281.jpg)
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/15593_10152383412955305_1929846386_n_zps18b706e5.jpg)
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/314675_10152383411920305_1870266223_n_zps9a14dac9.jpg)
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/6645_10152383409580305_276213358_n_zps16ad3aab.jpg)
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/314637_10152383410855305_704996932_n_zps3d97c39b.jpg)
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx147/MarineUS/416895_10152383408010305_1951239399_n_zps5dce5e6a.jpg)
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I might be able to fit my lunch in there... :)
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It's a LOT bigger than it looks in the pics (you pervs).
Plus it's a 3-day bug out pack, not a be gone for a month pack lol. Humping an ILBE or ALICE is overkill. I don't care how far into some mountains you're going, it's just too much unless you're setting up a permanent FOB/OP. :P