Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Slash27 on December 11, 2012, 07:34:52 PM

Title: Check your closets
Post by: Slash27 on December 11, 2012, 07:34:52 PM
http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/valuable-wwii-gun-police-buy-back-022155231--abc-news-topstories.html

Yet another cool thing that will never happen to me.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: SilverZ06 on December 11, 2012, 07:43:23 PM
Just checked but I only found DMGOD in the closet  :uhoh
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Slash27 on December 11, 2012, 07:50:17 PM
Sorry man. :confused:
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: MarineUS on December 11, 2012, 08:33:22 PM
Wow! How did she not know!? I mean..What the..I just...I can't fathom.....
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: titanic3 on December 11, 2012, 09:12:10 PM
Curious question: Where do they get the ammo for these old guns?...Must cost a lot for just a clip.. :uhoh
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Babalonian on December 12, 2012, 03:09:14 PM
Curious question: Where do they get the ammo for these old guns?...Must cost a lot for just a clip.. :uhoh

If you got 25+ grand to buy a functional STG44, you can splooge on a

(http://www.montac.com/reloading/images/LR4.jpg)

Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Triton28 on December 12, 2012, 03:43:43 PM
 :O

Oh. My. God.

Your father leaves you this gun... he never bothers to tell you it's a WWII German Gem... you never get curious about it... IT WAS IN THE CLOSET!

There is so much fail in this.    :cry
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: mbailey on December 12, 2012, 03:52:33 PM
Its nice to see that the LEOs are not going to destroy it.....I saw on the local news a couple of years ago Philadelphia did a gun buy back program......the newscaster was showing a table full of handguns....amongts which were a Luger and a Broom Handled Mauser......I about cried thinking these were going to the melting pot.

Curious question: Where do they get the ammo for these old guns?...Must cost a lot for just a clip.. :uhoh

You can get 7.92X33 Kurz ammo for about $15.00 for a box of 20  Case lots of 500 are roughly $375.00  (124gr FMJ)

< the write up below is copied from a forum i belong to>

<Start>
After World War II, the Soviet Union and other Eastern Bloc states supplied client regimes and guerrilla movements with captured German arms such as the StG 44 along with newly manufactured or repackaged 7.92x33mm ammunition. French forces discovered many in Algeria and determined the origin to be from Czechoslovakia. Examples also found their way into the hands of the Vietcong during the Vietnam War, and the PLO. It is still used in very limited numbers by militia forces in the Middle East as well as some countries in the Horn of Africa. StG 44s have been confiscated from militia groups by U.S. forces in Iraq.

It was used by Lithuanian partisans during the armed resistance against the Soviet presence, 1944–1953.

During the Syrian Civil War, a weapons cache of 5,000 StG 44s were captured by Syrian rebels in the city of Aleppo. Later, photos surfaced of the rebels using them in combat.  <END>


Apparantly not that rare anymore....reported that the FSA captured appx 5000 STG44s in Aleppo. God only knows what will happen to them though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPnYQgHfog4
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Nefarious on December 12, 2012, 04:07:43 PM
Perhaps I need to stake these things out. I wonder how many curio & relics actually get "melted" down.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: mbailey on December 12, 2012, 04:12:39 PM
Perhaps I need to stake these things out. I wonder how many curio & relics actually get "melted" down.  :rolleyes:

Tell ya the truth, makes me get sick thinking of it.

I had a gentleman (WW2 Vet)  i did work for, give me all his WW2 stuff, including a German fighter pilots flight watch that he "liberated" in France.....the reason, he was worried his grand daughters were going to back up a dumpster and throw it all out when he passed......scares me to think that this happens on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: GScholz on December 12, 2012, 04:22:21 PM
I see the "AK-47 is an STG44 copy" myth still lives on...

Those Syrian sturms are probably made post-war in France or Eastern Europe, so they won't be as valuable as German wartime examples.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Nefarious on December 12, 2012, 04:23:37 PM
Well, I was being somewhat sarcastic. I'm sure most of these relics don't get "melted". Pistols and rifles are a lot easier to "melt" than a select fire assault rifle.

However, I do agree it's other stuff that is simply being tossed like documents, patches, uniforms.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: SmokinLoon on December 12, 2012, 06:00:00 PM
I see the "AK-47 is an STG44 copy" myth still lives on...

Those Syrian sturms are probably made post-war in France or Eastern Europe, so they won't be as valuable as German wartime examples.

If you think that the AK is %100 completely free of StG 44 influence you've been the one smoking a myth.  There are legit sources out there that say the SKS was designed with 2 firearms as a template: the Tokerov SVT-40 and the StG 44.  When the AK-47 was designed (contrary to the famed designer's testimony), he had in front of him the SKS, the SVT-40, and prints/designs from the StG 44 (supposedly Mr. K never ever laid hands on an actual StG 44). 

I know all of this is disputed and I ultimately do not care, but this "myth" is no different than the engineers of a car company in the early 1900's never took a part a Ford to design their own car for massed production.  The design features and usage theories are far too similar to think of them as coincidental.  ;)         
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Widewing on December 12, 2012, 06:42:49 PM
If you think that the AK is %100 completely free of StG 44 influence you've been the one smoking a myth.  There are legit sources out there that say the SKS was designed with 2 firearms as a template: the Tokerov SVT-40 and the StG 44.  When the AK-47 was designed (contrary to the famed designer's testimony), he had in front of him the SKS, the SVT-40, and prints/designs from the StG 44 (supposedly Mr. K never ever laid hands on an actual StG 44). 

I know all of this is disputed and I ultimately do not care, but this "myth" is no different than the engineers of a car company in the early 1900's never took a part a Ford to design their own car for massed production.  The design features and usage theories are far too similar to think of them as coincidental.  ;)         

GScholz didn't say that the StG 44 didn't influence Kalashnikov, he said that the AK-47 wasn't a copy. There's no doubt that the German rifle had an influence. However, Kalashnikov had much different design goals. Ultimately, for less educated, less well training soldiers, the AK-47 is a superior weapon compared to the StG 44. It's nearly indestructible, and can be operated and field stripped by a chimpanzee. Accuracy is dodgy beyond 200 yards, but it can put a lot of lead down range with enough accuracy to be deadly. It truly is the "common man's" weapon....
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: GScholz on December 12, 2012, 06:51:19 PM
If you think that the AK is %100 completely free of StG 44 influence you've been the one smoking a myth.  There are legit sources out there that say the SKS was designed with 2 firearms as a template: the Tokerov SVT-40 and the StG 44.  When the AK-47 was designed (contrary to the famed designer's testimony), he had in front of him the SKS, the SVT-40, and prints/designs from the StG 44 (supposedly Mr. K never ever laid hands on an actual StG 44). 

I know all of this is disputed and I ultimately do not care, but this "myth" is no different than the engineers of a car company in the early 1900's never took a part a Ford to design their own car for massed production.  The design features and usage theories are far too similar to think of them as coincidental.  ;)         

The gas system is similar to the STG, but the rest is very different mechanically. There's some M1 Garand in there, some Browning. The folding stock on the AKS is from an MP40. The action is based on Kalashnikov's earlier carbine design, strongly influenced by the Garand, that lost to the SKS for service with the Red Army. To say the the AK-47 is a copy of the STG44 is just pure bollocks. That the STG influenced Kalashnikov's design layout is obvious.

The STG44's most direct descendant is the H&K G-3 series, even if the design moved away from gas operation to roller delayed blowback.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/H%26KG3A3.png)
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: SPKmes on December 12, 2012, 07:59:16 PM
+1 for the cops.... Honesty is a virtue
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: nrshida on December 12, 2012, 09:35:20 PM
Oh rats, I found one of these half a year ago but scrapped it because I thought it was a cheap AK-47 knockoff. Had a bent barrel and a weird sight anyway.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: ToeTag on December 13, 2012, 12:10:28 AM
If you got 25+ grand to buy a functional STG44, you can splooge on a

(http://www.montac.com/reloading/images/LR4.jpg)



Geeze no ponsness or bullet feeders...................wea k
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: GScholz on December 13, 2012, 06:05:24 AM
Oh rats, I found one of these half a year ago but scrapped it because I thought it was a cheap AK-47 knockoff. Had a bent barrel and a weird sight anyway.

 :D
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: cpxxx on December 13, 2012, 07:10:39 AM
They had a weapons amnesty in this country a few years ago. No Stg 44s turned up as far as I know but I seem to remember seeing a Bren gun on a news report. I hope that wasn't melted down. But some of the so called weapons handed in weren't exactly illegal. Knives, Swords, starting pistols and replicas even an ancient musket. Some of them would have been valuable. People are stupid. :bhead

I collect occasional bit of militaria and some of them are quite valuable now. Even a standard WW2 GI M1 helmet can go for several hundred dollars these days. But WW2 German helmets and equipment can go for silly money. Yet people still dump them without thinking. On one collector forum there's a guy who works in recycling and scrap yard in the US. He regularly picks up militaria worth hundreds of dollars that people just throw away. I hate to think what gets lost every day.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Widewing on December 15, 2012, 10:06:30 PM
The gas system is similar to the STG, but the rest is very different mechanically. There's some M1 Garand in there, some Browning. The folding stock on the AKS is from an MP40. The action is based on Kalashnikov's earlier carbine design, strongly influenced by the Garand, that lost to the SKS for service with the Red Army. To say the the AK-47 is a copy of the STG44 is just pure bollocks. That the STG influenced Kalashnikov's design layout is obvious.

The STG44's most direct descendant is the H&K G-3 series, even if the design moved away from gas operation to roller delayed blowback.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/H%26KG3A3.png)

Well, The G3 was a licensed version of the CETME 58. Smuggled out of Germany to Spain after the war, the German's had to buy a license to manufacture a rifle that was designed in Germany. I own a CETME 58...

(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/10968_1291743219048_1363423_n.jpg)

Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: GScholz on December 16, 2012, 03:26:40 PM
Nice rifle you got there. Yes, the Mauser team working on the STG45 (that was to replace the STG44 in German service) moved to France and then Spain and developed the STG45 into the CETME rifle. The G3 is for all intents and purposes a license produced version of the CETME model B.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: 4Prop on December 16, 2012, 09:16:28 PM
Ive got a buddy whos grandfather was in the SS. Fought at the Siege of Stalingrad. He was given a pistol from the commander of German forces in Stalingrad, and my friend now has it in his closet.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: SmokinLoon on December 17, 2012, 04:55:49 PM
Well, The G3 was a licensed version of the CETME 58. Smuggled out of Germany to Spain after the war, the German's had to buy a license to manufacture a rifle that was designed in Germany. I own a CETME 58...

(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/10968_1291743219048_1363423_n.jpg)



With proper wood furniture, too.  Very nice.   :aok   I used to have a British L1A1 with a US made inch receiver.  It was a fine rifle, a bit heavy compared to the AR15 I'm used to.  I like being able to carry over double to ammo load and be able to reach out just as far (600 yards).  As with most people I kick myself for getting rid of it, especially with the uncertainty of the future.   :(
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 17, 2012, 05:38:07 PM
Ive got a buddy whos grandfather was in the SS. Fought at the Siege of Stalingrad. He was given a pistol from the commander of German forces in Stalingrad, and my friend now has it in his closet.

He's got Friedrich Paulus' personal side arm?

ack-ack
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: 4Prop on December 17, 2012, 06:08:21 PM
He's got Friedrich Paulus' personal side arm?

ack-ack

Yup. He also has his Iron Cross that was given to his grandfather by Hitler.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: branch37 on December 17, 2012, 06:47:49 PM
Yup. He also has his Iron Cross that was given to his grandfather by Hitler.

Pics or it didnt happen
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Nefarious on December 17, 2012, 06:53:06 PM
He's got Friedrich Paulus' personal side arm?

ack-ack

Pics or it didnt happen

LOL... I laughed at this earlier. It looks like its going to get better.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Ack-Ack on December 17, 2012, 08:11:02 PM
Yup. He also has his Iron Cross that was given to his grandfather by Hitler.

Any proof that it's actually Paulus' side arm?  Not saying it's not true but if you have any proof that it was Paulus' side arm from the time he was in Stalingrad, you've got yourself a very expensive bit of history that gun and WW2 collectors would trip over themselves to buy.  The pistol would be worth even more money if it was the side arm he surrendered at the time of his surrender.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: branch37 on December 17, 2012, 08:20:40 PM
If it was the pistol he surrendered at stalingrad I dont see how it wouldnt have ended up on Stalins desk.
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: 4Prop on December 18, 2012, 10:47:51 PM
The reason it was given to him was because the general knew he would be captured or died. He gave it to the closest german soldier, which was his grandfather. When you pull the slide back, theres an iron cross about an inch back from the muzzle. Theres also a few other German markings on it. The sights are really small on it, so I assume it was used mainly for executions.

His grandfather died last October. I'll see if I can get him to take some pics
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Slash27 on December 18, 2012, 11:22:19 PM
Theres also a few other German markings on it. The sights are really small on it, so I assume it was used mainly for executions.

Honestly, what gives you that idea?




Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: Nefarious on December 19, 2012, 06:36:03 AM
First of all, Paulus was a member of the Wehrmacht not the SS, so why would he give his sidearm to a member of the SS?

Second, the SS was not at Stalingrad in any large force. I get responses in searches to no participation at all, to less than police company sized.

I'm calling BS, it's most likely it's a GI bring back.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Check your closets
Post by: 4Prop on December 25, 2012, 03:16:09 AM
Sorry thats right. He was in the Wermacht. For some reason I confuse them with the SS. He was in the 6th army in Stalingrad. and later got into the 12th SS Panzer Division Hitlerjugend