Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on December 26, 2012, 01:10:12 PM
-
Guys,
In your opinion, what planes would be in the top 5 for best roll rates in the game?
Thanks,
Slade :salute
-
190A-5, 190A-8, 190F-8, 190D-9... see a pattern here?
Finally I'll throw in the clipped wing Spit XVI but that depends on speed.
-
Depends on the speed at which you are comparing them.
But generically:
1) Fw190A-5/Fw190A-8/Fw190F-8/Fw190D-9
2) F4U-1/F4U-1A/F4U-1C/F4U-1D/F4U-4
3) Spitfire Mk XVI
4) Ki-84-I?
Not sure after that.
Above 350 or 400mph the P-38L actually has the best roll rate.
-
The 190's top the list, but the Spit16 and Ki-45 are very close behind. The F4U's are surprisingly good as well :headscratch: though they need more rudder to keep it under control. As Karnak mentioned at high speeds the P38L gets the nod thanks to hydrolic control surfaces.
The 109's have the best snap roll. Almost instantaneous.
-
P47 has a pretty good roll rate as well, at higher speeds. 190 is by far the best though.
-
Thanks all for the posts. As always these type questions expose flight properties that I did not know or factor in.
I know there are plenty that disagree with this but for me many encounters are determined by single digit (1-9% that is) percentage differences in a plane and tactics, i.e. small things (and multiples of) do factor into success in an encounter. Plus you can never know enough about these planes it seems. :aok
-
At very high speeds, the jug and the 38L are the kings, at medium speeds (200-~400) the 190s and spit16s excels. At very low speeds, i would vote for the ki84, the spit16, or the a6m3, but none of them can snaproll as precisely and smoothly as a late model 109.
-
I kept thinking that I remembered a AH roll rate test list.....and Google is our friend. Back from the depths of January 2002:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=27995.0 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=27995.0)
Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: F4UDOA on January 09, 2002, 11:01:00 AM
Title: Aces High Roll Rates Compared
Post by: F4UDOA on January 09, 2002, 11:01:00 AM
Heya's,
My latest venture in testing. I tested 10 of the top birds in the MA roll rates.
First the test criteria.
Combat trim on
25% fuel
Climb to 6,500FT.
Dive to approx 5,500FT. to gain 300MPH.
Complete three individual timed 360 degree rolls.
Dive to reach 400MPH.
Repeat timed rolls.
Reduce speed to 200MPH.
Repeat timed rolls.
All results are average of three test times.
All test performed in IAS.
All rolls to left except LA-7 to the right.
Results
P-47D-30
200MPH= 5.69
300MPH= 3.90
400MPH= 4.52
P-51D
200MPH= 5.67
300MPH= 3.93
400MPH= 4.62
P-38L
200MPH= 6.97
300MPH= 4.27
400MPH= 3.52
F6F-5
200MPH= 5.47
300MPH= 3.95
400MPH= 4.92
F4U-1D
200MPH= 4.63
300MPH= 3.34
400MPH= 4.01
Spit IX
200MPH= 4.59
300MPH= 4.23
400MPH= 5.78
LA-7
200MPH= 5.01
300MPH= 3.72
400MPH= 4.37
NIK2-J
200MPH= 5.56
300MPH= 4.67
400MPH= 5.93
ME109G-10
200MPH= 5.91
300MPH= 5.24
400MPH= 7.86
FW190D-9
200MPH= 3.6
300MPH= 2.85
400MPH= 4.05
-
Why did you rest roll rate in the La7 to the right? Just curious. :headscratch:
-
Why did you rest roll rate in the La7 to the right? Just curious. :headscratch:
La7 rolls left much, much faster left than right due to engine torque.
-
Why did you test roll rate in the La7 to the right? Just curious. :headscratch:
The prop rotation is opposite the other aircraft.
-
The prop rotation is opposite the other aircraft.
The only aircraft that pull to the right instead of the left due to engine torque are the Yaks and the Il2
La7 rolls left much, much faster left than right due to engine torque.
So do the 109s. I think in the 109 it's almost worth it to roll 270* left rather than 90* right. Actually that's most likely an exaggeration but it feels like it sometimes.
-
The only aircraft that pull to the right instead of the left due to engine torque are the Yaks and the Il2 . . .
And the Typhoon.
-
The only aircraft that pull to the right instead of the left due to engine torque are the Yaks and the Il2
You're right I mixed up the Yaks and La7.
And the Typhoon.
And the Spitfire XIV.
-
I find it so ironic the 190 can roll so well, but still turns like a cigar.
Wasn't the 190 on par with the 51's during 43' 44' down lower?
-
ok folks... I think this would be as good of a thread as any to write up what aircraft has the RIGHT vs LEFT torque.
As far as I remember, the only few aircraft that turns and rolls RIGHT better than left with any measurable difference are the:
Typhoon, Tempest, and Spit14.
If there is any question to which way a prop is spinning just kick on WEP and watch the plane dip in that direction. Or, get the place up to 250 TAS or so and cut throttle all the way and then hammer down, the wing will dip doing that as well (take it out of auto pilot).
The La7 dips its left wing telling me the torque is taking the plane left which tells me the plane rolls and turns better to the left (at least in theory).
The IL-2 does dip the right wing when testing torque so I did learn something today as I always thought the IL-2 went left better like most aircraft in AH.
-
Some say Yaks turn better to the right. Do we have any facts to prove this?
-
Dunno... I will test it though.
One thing for sure is this: A P38L will eat a Tempest alive in a scissors while at high speeds... even when loaded with %50+ fuel, 2/1k bombs, and 5in rockets. I was part of a mission when I was intercepted by a Tempest and my only thought was to get him away from the allied bombers so I went nose down (we started at 20k) and turned °90 away from the bombers. The Tempest followed me down and somewhere in the mid 400's I started to shake with him 800 behind me. I gave him his better roll and took him right °90 and then let me catch me, he was 600 behind me at that point. I then took him °180 left and cut throttle a wee bit... and he went right on by. I hit the throttle and kicked on WEP and followed him up (I had forgotten about all the extra weight by this time), I got to within 400 yards of him when we both stalled out (after I missed my shot :bhead ). We both rolled back under and did a full loop where wouldn't ya know it we were setting up for the HO. He won thanks to my bad aim that day. However, I did see him trailing oil after we collided. So ultimately, I accomplished my mission and get him away from the bombers.
I can certainly vouch for how well the P38L can roll at high speeds, heavy or light. Wowza. :O
-
The quick way to test the way the engine turns is to just sit on the runway and start the engine. You get an instant answer.
The planes that have engines spinning to the left:
Spit 14
Tempest
Typhoon
Yak 9T
Yak 9U
IL-2
and 1/2 of a P-38!
They will all turn with better stability to the right, but may not make tighter turns or faster turn rates. It's just a lot easier to make them do that.
Interestingly, I find the Mossie with it's two right hand engines easier to turn to the right, which is counter-intuitive. I don't know if it's because as pilot I'm sitting on the left side of the plane, or what.
-
radials are direct drive, early vee's usually have a drop box so the rotation is reversed. some of the later h's were direct drive, some were drop boxed. of course the final rotation depends on the actual engine rotation.
-
The quick way to test the way the engine turns is to just sit on the runway and start the engine. You get an instant answer.
The planes that have engines spinning to the left:
Spit 14
Tempest
Typhoon
Yak 9T
Yak 9U
IL-2
and 1/2 of a P-38!
They will all turn with better stability to the right, but may not make tighter turns or faster turn rates. It's just a lot easier to make them do that.
Interestingly, I find the Mossie with it's two right hand engines easier to turn to the right, which is counter-intuitive. I don't know if it's because as pilot I'm sitting on the left side of the plane, or what.
With the Typhoon and Tempest both it is easy to feel the torque as the plane wants to turn and roll right by default. Any movement to the left and they fight you, or rather a more heavy hand is needed (and more time). I didnt notice the Yaks so much and same goes for the IL-2, none of them seem to have the awesome torque as the Typhoon and Tempest. FWIW, I don't think any aircraft is adversely affected by torque as much as the Typhoon is.