Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: Brakechk on December 27, 2012, 11:21:00 PM
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Hello all,
I have a problem with my CH Combatstick 568. This stick is new (bought it when I came back ingame a couple months ago). I have downloaded the CH drivers for Win 7, and I have it plugged into a powered hub. I am running the CH software only to calibrate the stick, everything else is done in Aces High. I calibrate it in the CH manager and in game.
I also have a CH throttle and rudder pedals. I am experiencing no issues with these controllers. I replaced my old Combatstick when I came back because of this but this new one is acting the same way.
The problem I have is that it is twitchy when I am inputting small inputs, like slowly pulling/pushing the stick (pitch) or when I am making small adjustments for aim. The pipper just jumps up and down in pitch with corresponding motions in pipper/nose movements. The controller settings show very twitchy inputs when I test it and they are not huge fluctuations. I don't really see these when making faster adjustments on the stick. This problem is very noticable at higher speeds, not so much at very slow speeds (plane speed).
The auto pilot holds fine so its not doing this at center (and I don't see spiking in the advanced controller maps at center), just when I am moving the stick. I have tried scaling and dampening with no effect. I have also tried plugging my powered usb hub into a different usb port in the back of the computer.
This problem really makes flying certain planes pretty frustrating. For some reason its really bad in the F4Us, P38s and P47s. Is there something I am maybe missing or is the flight dynamics just like this? It's been a very long time since I played before coming back but I don't recall this problem before.
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Is it twitchy in both the roll and pitch axes? If it's only pitch then I would think that it is a bad pot.
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Try the following (in order to avoid expenses):
1) Remove CH manager and retest.
2) Replace the powered HUB
3) Reinstall CH manager (if you still have the problem)
If none of that works I would return the stick. It is possible that there is a wire inside that is not making good contact somewhere, but that should not be your problem with a new stick. If you cannot return it for some reason, then open it up and see if you can see a wiring flaw. If not then order a new potentiometer from CH.
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I got this hint from TilDeath and it worked. Make sure you're CH sticks are not plugged into the blue 3.0 port. Yes I know it's supposed to be backwards compatible but it ain't.
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This guy needs scaling.
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Is it twitchy in both the roll and pitch axes? If it's only pitch then I would think that it is a bad pot.
Its twitchy in both, it's just more noticable in pitch.
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This guy needs scaling.
Years ago I never used scaling. I messed with it some to try and fix this but it didnt seem to help. It just made the plane feel mushy. I still get the input twitchyness. Basically it looks sort of like random framerate stutters (framerate is fine...checked it also).
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Try the following (in order to avoid expenses):
1) Remove CH manager and retest.
2) Replace the powered HUB
3) Reinstall CH manager (if you still have the problem)
If none of that works I would return the stick. It is possible that there is a wire inside that is not making good contact somewhere, but that should not be your problem with a new stick. If you cannot return it for some reason, then open it up and see if you can see a wiring flaw. If not then order a new potentiometer from CH.
I'll give this a try. Although when I first bought the stick I wasn't using any CH software at all, I just plugged everything into a usb port and let windows run it. I then tried the port, then the powered hub. I may have downloaded the wrong drivers (older version) so I'll remove and retry it and see what happens.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
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My stick was twitchy as well. Just check to see if it's in the blue USB port before doing all that other stuff.
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My stick was twitchy as well. Just check to see if it's in the blue USB port before doing all that other stuff.
I tried it in both the usb 2.0 port (checked the hub..it's a usb 2.0). and the usb 3 (or blue one...whatever it is). Still getting same issue. I wound up ditching the ch drivers and reloading new most recent ones. I also deleted and reinstalled the game. No help with any of those.
Back when I used to play I wound up running with deadband as little as possible and dampening completely at the bottom. Doing that helped with bouncing after joystick inputs. I also ran all the scaling sliders to the top...to help with slow or mushy inputs. I remember after doing that it took a fair bit to retrain myself not to overcontrol but once I did all that the planes seemed a bit more responsive. I do not remember any issues with the stick being spikey.
All of this worked really well for me so that's how I have it now. It really looks like a jumpy pot but this thing is brand new..but acts like the old one I replaced. The whole thing is pretty frustrating as it works against you when your flying right on stall speed and any unexpected or unwanted stick input can cause a departure not to mention the difficulty in small aim ajustments.
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Check all USB devices and your stick in Device Manager to see, if any of them has the "Let windows shut this device down for energy saving" box ticked. Also look at the Power Management settings, you might like it set to "best performance" and also look at the Advanced power settings to disable any USB related power saving options.
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OK, here is another way to check your USB inputs, get DIView (http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836/DIView.zip). It's a free program for Direct Input Viewing. Run it and you will see how your controllers are working. Here's mine....
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DIView_zps872954f4.jpg)
The red circled areas are the main axises of the stick and pedals (the throttle is flat lined). These 3 on mine while at rest jump around 1% max. If your set is this or less it is NOT a stick problem, its the guy holding the stick :D
As I have gotten older I have had to add more and more scaling to my stick and rudders. I don't know why, I just know I do.
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Try exercising the stick by pulling it through all axis and concentrating on making very small movements at the end of it's travel.
More than a few sticks act as op noted on the first few minutes of usage after a reboot of the of.
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By any chance have you touched the pot centering wheel for the problem axis on the stick's base?
I used to get a similare problem with my fighter stick x-axis because my hand sometimes would rub against it and move it slightly, then I'd recalibrate thinking the pot was going bad. Or my USB port or hub.
I've known players who get those wheels set correctly then tape them in place becasue of this. Don't worry about the CH calibration window numbers 0 and 255 when you attempt to get the wheel centered if that is the problem and removes your jitter. After you get the wheel set and your pot to stop jittering the numbers, your calibration may have one side at 1 and the other at 249.
DIView is a great way to look at the real raw buffer info rather than CH's version of the buffer.
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Get the latest version of CH Control Manager and install it. You don't have to use it for the mapping functions but it's a good idea to install it so you can calibrate your CH controllers properly in Windows. After you've calibrated in Windows, you'll have to do two calibration routines in AH. First, calibrate each of the axis for your controllers and then use the in-game calibration routine to calibrate your controllers. This will ensure that your controllers are properly calibrated in Windows and AH. If you're still experiencing spikes, then its time to look at the hardware.
ack-ack
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By any chance have you touched the pot centering wheel for the problem axis on the stick's base?
I used to get a similare problem with my fighter stick x-axis because my hand sometimes would rub against it and move it slightly, then I'd recalibrate thinking the pot was going bad. Or my USB port or hub.
I've known players who get those wheels set correctly then tape them in place becasue of this. Don't worry about the CH calibration window numbers 0 and 255 when you attempt to get the wheel centered if that is the problem and removes your jitter. After you get the wheel set and your pot to stop jittering the numbers, your calibration may have one side at 1 and the other at 249.
DIView is a great way to look at the real raw buffer info rather than CH's version of the buffer.
Yep that causes untold misery.
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I'll try these suggestions...thanks.
As a note on scaling (i.e. user inputted spiking) I tried that and tested by watching the sliders in AH (Control Map Advanced) and it really didn't effect the spikeiness at all. It just effects response vs throw on the stick. The spikey movement is still there. It was one of the first things I did because I assumed it was me and not the new stick initially.
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Update:
My usb power settings were such that they were set to shut down the usb ports after a certain time. I disabled that, I also disabled that in the advanced power management. So I went through all usb hubs individually and as a group.
I restarted the computer and followed ack acks directions regarding lastest CH software (had it already) and calibrated there, then each axis in AH then overall calibration routine in AH.
It seemed to help...I'll let ya know as I have more time to mess with it. There is still some spike when moving the controller shown in AH but doesnt seem to be as much.
Thanks for the advice all!
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Flew all night tonight. These last suggestions seemed to help although for some reason the spikeynes came back a couple hours in. I calibrated the pitch axis alone then recalibrated all axis in AH and that seemed to fix it again.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
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Have you made sure it's not plugged into a blue port?
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Have you made sure it's not plugged into a blue port?
Yep....Actually I've tried it both ways. The blue one didnt seem to make a difference.
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If you calibrate it correctly and it fixes the problem for a short time and then starts to spike again, its time to look at the hardware as the possible issue. The first thing you want to do is make sure contacts are cleans and the potentiometer wires are firmly connected to the contacts. Remove the bottom base and if you have cleaner, clean the contacts and then connect the potentiometer wires to the contacts and make sure they connect firmly (do not push too hard so you don't bend the contacts). Put the base on the stick back on and recalibrate in Windows and in AH and see if the controllers start to spike again. If they do, you may want to try an external powered USB hub to see if that removes the spiking, if it doesn't then I would point the culprit at bad potentiometers.
ack-ack
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BTW, for anyone thinking of paying $200+ for one of their products:
From: XXXXX [mailto:XXXXX@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 12:50 PM
To: Level Two
Subject: repair
Have an older Combatstick, 8-way Hat going. Do I need an rma first or something before I send it in?
Hi XXXXX,
I am sorry but we no longer repair our products unless they are under the 2 year warranty. I am very sorry for any inconvenience this causes.
Sincerely,
Jon Soucy
Inside Sales Representative
CH PRODUCTS
970 Park Center Drive
Vista, CA 92081
Ph#: 760-598-2518
Fax#: 760-598-2524
Email: jsoucy@chproducts.com
http://www.chproducts.com
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To be fair, CH has extended its warranty period. It used to be only a year ;)
ack-ack
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Yet another update....new stick works occasionally, most times not. Got the old 568 out and it works much better, no spiking. I'll be sending CH an email as it's only 2 months old. Hopfully they will honor the warranty and fix or preferably just replace it.
The old stick is 10 years old and has wore out springs and a finicky hat switch but thats way better than the spikey responses of the new one.
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Save the old stick and use the potentiometers in the new one if they go bad out of warranty.
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BTW, for anyone thinking of paying $200+ for one of their products:
update: they're gonna sell me a hat switch for $5....I might buy a few!
Hi xxxx,
I spoke with my manager and I was able to get approval to set you a hat switch. They are $5 each, and we can postal mail them.
Sincerely,
Jon Soucy
Inside Sales Representative
CH PRODUCTS
970 Park Center Drive
Vista, CA 92081
Ph#: 760-598-2518
Fax#: 760-598-2524
Email: jsoucy@chproducts.com
http://www.chproducts.com
From: xxxx [mailto:xxxxxx@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:31 PM
To: Jon Soucy
Subject: Re: repair
You're killin me.....I can't buy a hat switch?
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
Jon Soucy <jsoucy@chproducts.com> wrote:
Hi xxxx,
I am sorry but we no longer repair our products unless they are under the 2 year warranty. I am very sorry for any inconvenience this causes.
Sincerely,
Jon Soucy
Inside Sales Representative
CH PRODUCTS
970 Park Center Drive
Vista, CA 92081
Ph#: 760-598-2518
Fax#: 760-598-2524
Email: jsoucy@chproducts.com
http://www.chproducts.com
From:xxxxx [mailto:xxxxxx@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2013 12:50 PM
To: Level Two
Subject: repair
Have an older Combatstick, 8-way Hat going. Do I need an rma first or something before I send it in?
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I know this thread is extremely old, but I'm also having the same issue with my CH Combatstick.
I've had the thing for probably close to 10 years now and it's always been twitchy.
After flying over the last few weeks, the problem has increased to not only the Z axis (throttle) being twitchy when maneuvering the X axis, but now actual BUTTONS are not functioning when the X axis is in a certain position.
Definitely a hardware issue in my opinion and troubleshooting experience. I opened up the bottom and found some dust inside... trying to clean it out. I have some contact cleaner that I plan to use on some of the terminals, but here is my MAIN QUESTION:
Can I use electronic contact cleaner on potentiometers? Or will it damage them?
Thanks in advance.
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As long as the stick isn't plugged in you should be ok. I know they say you can use some of them with power, but I never could do that. If it would be a problem for pots it would say so on the can.
From your description tho it sounds more like a broken wire or two.
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After spending an hour trying to troubleshoot, and after spraying cleaner on the contacts and POTS, I didn't see any improvement.
Since I've had the Combatstick 568 since 2004 or so, I'm not disappointed or upset. It probably had thousands and thousands of hours on it over a decade's time, so I suppose it shouldn't be of any surprise that components were starting to fail... especially when it comes to a device with moving parts and multiple potentiometers.
Long story short, even though I truly believe I was having similar issues to other owners of the Combatstick, I got my money's worth and upgraded to a new CH Fighterstick... I should be back in action tomorrow or Friday.
Thanks.
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After spending an hour trying to troubleshoot, and after spraying cleaner on the contacts and POTS, I didn't see any improvement.
Since I've had the Combatstick 568 since 2004 or so, I'm not disappointed or upset. It probably had thousands and thousands of hours on it over a decade's time, so I suppose it shouldn't be of any surprise that components were starting to fail... especially when it comes to a device with moving parts and multiple potentiometers.
Long story short, even though I truly believe I was having similar issues to other owners of the Combatstick, I got my money's worth and upgraded to a new CH Fighterstick... I should be back in action tomorrow or Friday.
Thanks.
I wound up buying a fighterstick also. I took the old combatstick apart and pulled the leads off the pots, cleaned them, replaced and recrimped. That took care of the issues with the pots but the hat was bad on that stick. I did the same with the new combatstick (good hat) and it was still a little twitchy. The new stick is much better although I had issues with keeping calibration at first. I removed the CH software and reinstalled, calibrated in CH software, left that program on, calibrated in AH....seems to be working over the past couple of weeks. Fingers crossed as when the stick works it works nicely. Unfortunately I now have no excuses.... :D
Zaphod
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I happen to be in possession of two new hat switches for the Combat stick....which could be had for a minor fee