Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: lulu on January 01, 2013, 09:28:57 AM

Title: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: lulu on January 01, 2013, 09:28:57 AM
A20, 109, seem to be indestructible.
Is it my impression only?


 :salute


P.S.
I was diving on a20, in a pony 51, more then 400 mph. I fired ... A20 still there !
He turned, others fired on him. I got the kill. But I expected he exploded because
I put a lot's of bullets on him. But generally it's always the same story also when
i fire with spit cannons.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: SmokinLoon on January 01, 2013, 09:56:14 AM
It is all about the amount of damage delivered to a particular area on a specific plane.  Not all planes are the same, not all weapons are the same.  Believe me when I say that sometimes it is frustrating, but the same thing goes for all of us.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Max on January 01, 2013, 09:57:21 AM
The A20 takes a lot of damage. 109's, not as much but they're nimble birds so you have to get up close & personal.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Debrody on January 01, 2013, 10:11:54 AM
The a20 can soak up well over 10 taters without any critical damage. The 109 - not so much.
IMO, the Jaks are pretty tough for their size.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Bizman on January 01, 2013, 10:58:30 AM
It also depends on where you hit them. An A20 has lots of empty space inside, especially in AH where the gunner seats aren't manned. A 20 mm hole in the aluminum wall would only add ventilation without affecting maneuverability. The weakest parts in almost any plane would be the engine area and pilot, when looking at real warbirds. Debrody, I was with the group to see the Brewster IRL closely while it was restored. We found a bullethole in the rear and it looked as if the bullet had travelled through the empty space inside the plane until hitting the cast iron back rest armor, breaking it into two pieces. That was the biggest single damage in the whole fuselage, the crashing being caused by engine hits. Makes me wonder how the WW2 pilots could fatally hit anything without the self aiming armament we have today. The aluminum walls are just one step further from the canvas of WW1 planes, mostly there only for added aerodynamics.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: skorpx1 on January 01, 2013, 11:02:27 AM
The KI-84 seems to soak up a lot of damage. I shot 4 taters into a KI-84's wing today and nothing but a missing aileron and a flap no longer working. Makes me wonder what crazy stuff the Japanese put in that plane.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Randy1 on January 01, 2013, 11:20:37 AM
The P47 seems to be a bit more durable since the remodeling but that could be wishful thinking on my part. 

Doggone 109's are just plain hard to catch still long enough to cut them up.

Least durable to me is P38 and most magnetic for collecting lead.  It would be my number one plane if it didn't catch so much attention in a furbal.  Got to love those twin engines.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Acidrain on January 01, 2013, 11:51:50 AM
The KI-84 seems to soak up a lot of damage. I shot 4 taters into a KI-84's wing today and nothing but a missing aileron and a flap no longer working. Makes me wonder what crazy stuff the Japanese put in that plane.
in sure you have vid of this.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: fbEagle on January 01, 2013, 11:52:24 AM
A20, 109, seem to be indestructible.
Is it my impression only?


 :salute


P.S.
I was diving on a20, in a pony 51, more then 400 mph. I fired ... A20 still there !
He turned, others fired on him. I got the kill. But I expected he exploded because
I put a lot's of bullets on him. But generally it's always the same story also when
i fire with spit cannons.


Problem is you were flying a 51...
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Daddkev on January 01, 2013, 12:32:31 PM
 :huh :huh :huh :rofl :rofl :rofl I was flying a Pony................says it all!  :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: colmbo on January 01, 2013, 12:45:03 PM
The aluminum walls are just one step further from the canvas of WW1 planes, mostly there only for added aerodynamics.
Not even close to being correct.  The skin of nearly all the aircraft was vital to the strength of the structure.  Google monocoque.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Bizman on January 01, 2013, 01:07:36 PM
Not even close to being correct.  The skin of nearly all the aircraft was vital to the strength of the structure.  Google monocoque.

Done. Found this Aircraft Structure page (http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/aircraft-structure.html), which claims that true monocoque would be too heavy for planes, the solution being semi-monocoque. It also says that early
Quote
aircraft designers began to enclose the truss members to streamline the airplane.
, making my WW1 statement correct.
Looks like my biggest mistake was the phrase "only for -- aerodynamics". Thanks for correction, and making me look for sound information and learn something.  :salute
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Noir on January 01, 2013, 01:31:52 PM
A20G, Ki84, any 'old modeling' planes including the Jak, Ju88, B26B, Lancasters etc....
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 01, 2013, 01:39:11 PM
The A20 takes a lot of damage. 109's, not as much but they're nimble birds so you have to get up close & personal.

target wing or engine and they go down as fast as anything else. Target the body and unless you get a lucky shot on the cockpit. All your doing is poking holes in  a metal can. Eventually it will all add up to total structural failure but it takes alot more rounds. Though you may get some gunners
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 01, 2013, 01:43:29 PM
Not even close to being correct.  The skin of nearly all the aircraft was vital to the strength of the structure.  Google monocoque.

Ever actually touched and inspected the skin of a WWII bird?

Its about as thick as the metal in a Cambels soup can. and not nearly as stiff
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Chalenge on January 01, 2013, 01:45:53 PM
There is no mystery to shooting any of the 'tough' airplanes down. Concentrated fire is better than bullets spread all over the aircraft.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 01, 2013, 01:54:37 PM
There is no mystery to shooting any of the 'tough' airplanes down. Concentrated fire is better than bullets spread all over the aircraft.

Yanno. Its funny. after writing my last post about targeting an area of an aircraft I remember someone posting something similar when I was only here a year or so and thinking to myself. "Target the wing root? Hell Im happy if I can just hit the plane."

Funny how the game slows down for ya
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Scotch on January 01, 2013, 02:44:14 PM
109, seem to be indestructible.

109 gets a radiator hit or Pilot wound  just by looking at it
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Scotch on January 01, 2013, 03:26:18 PM
Ever actually touched and inspected the skin of a WWII bird?

Its about as thick as the metal in a Cambels soup can. and not nearly as stiff


He flies them. fyi  ;)
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: nrshida on January 01, 2013, 03:58:47 PM
The KI-84 seems to soak up a lot of damage. I shot 4 taters into a KI-84's wing today and nothing but a missing aileron and a flap no longer working. Makes me wonder what crazy stuff the Japanese put in that plane.

The wing structure was very strong on the Ki-84 as it was a single structural piece incorporating a section of the fuselage, but I doubt in game it would weather 4 30-mm. Perhaps you were seeing MG pings.

What it makes up in structure it loses in pilot wounds, trust me  :frown:


Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: skorpx1 on January 01, 2013, 04:01:44 PM
The wing structure was very strong on the Ki-84 as it was a single structural piece incorporating a section of the fuselage, but I doubt in game it would weather 4 30-mm. Perhaps you were seeing MG pings.

What it makes up in structure it loses in pilot wounds, trust me  :frown:




I saw the 4 explosions of the taters. Both 20mm's were out. It was the first time I had seen a plane take more than 2 taters. Don't think it'd be the last time though.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: nrshida on January 01, 2013, 04:10:59 PM
I saw the 4 explosions of the taters. Both 20mm's were out. It was the first time I had seen a plane take more than 2 taters. Don't think it'd be the last time though.

Strange. I have a few hours in the Ki-84 and I've always lost a wing if I take an accurate 30-mm hit there.

Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: skorpx1 on January 01, 2013, 04:44:05 PM
Strange. I have a few hours in the Ki-84 and I've always lost a wing if I take an accurate 30-mm hit there.



Like I said, it was the first time iv'e ever seen any plane take more than 2 taters to the wing. I'm guessing lag had a good role in it but I still don't understand how it happened.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: ink on January 02, 2013, 12:01:56 AM
the 84 is by far one of the toughest fighters in the hanger.....by that I mean how much it can take, many times I have been surprised at how many rounds I took and was still flying.....but a couple taters and its done.....but 50's and20's if they are not hitting at convergence......

I so wish I had the film of me fighting 3 brews a yak and a spit.....after that I got a rage VOX pm about cheating.....killed them all except the Yak got away with a smoking engine.(I was shooting good that day :t)...

I was Pilot wounded...... missing an Aileron..gear was out...... gun was destroyed......and every piece of the plane that could take a bullet hole....had 2 in it.........yet I still flew away all enemy dead or wounded.....eventually running out of fuel and ditching.


not even the 47 can take that much.....I was turning extremely hard Lo on fuel....so I chalk it up to they mostly were not hitting at convergence.....


Fear the Hayate

(http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w246/fieldsofink/deathheadstrikesagain-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: colmbo on January 02, 2013, 12:26:18 AM
Ever actually touched and inspected the skin of a WWII bird?

Its about as thick as the metal in a Cambels soup can. and not nearly as stiff

I've got just over 600 hours flying the B-17 and B-24.  Spent two years working on both of them...so yeah, I've touched a WWII airplane....probably more than you have. :D

FYI, the skin on my Cessna was thicker than a soup can.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: nrshida on January 02, 2013, 01:53:13 AM
the 84 is by far one of the toughest fighters in the hanger.....

To be fair Ink you don't look after yours either. Look at the state of it. Have you considered a respray?  :old:
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Scherf on January 02, 2013, 05:04:15 AM
With hair like his? He'd lose a lot  of street cred, man.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: uptown on January 02, 2013, 05:37:04 AM
The A20 has to be the toughest plane in the game. The F6F too IMO. Always thought the 47s around here should take a little more damage then they do also.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: ink on January 02, 2013, 11:12:27 AM
To be fair Ink you don't look after yours either. Look at the state of it. Have you considered a respray?  :old:

  :D
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Eric19 on January 02, 2013, 11:44:06 AM
maybe its time for the P47C to come along  :noid
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: RTHolmes on January 02, 2013, 11:51:53 AM
The KI-84 seems to soak up a lot of damage. I shot 4 taters into a KI-84's wing today and nothing but a missing aileron and a flap no longer working. Makes me wonder what crazy stuff the Japanese put in that plane.

flap hit, aileron hit, wingtip hit, wing hit. no mystery there, if you'd put 2 of them into the wing it would have fallen off.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: lulu on January 02, 2013, 02:37:05 PM
I forgot one: the f6f ...

 :salute
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Changeup on January 02, 2013, 04:21:37 PM
The A20 takes a lot of damage. 109's, not as much but they're nimble birds so you have to get up close & personal.

These issues generally revolve around being directly behind the 109s.  They are such a low profile bird that you have to be hitting them directly and chances are, the pile it of the 109 does not particularly want to hold still for you to shoot at him.  Shallow to wide deflection shots are the best where the 109 gives you full view of his top-down profile.  If its a K4, you best kill him quick or:

1.  If its a Muppet, your tracers will pizz him off and he'll turn around and kill you;
2.  He'll take his speed and kill you later;
3.  He'll slam the brakes on, you'll slide by and you'll die immediately.

Don't miss as the results are not fun.  Thank you, carry on.

K4 HELPFUL HINT #129
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: cobia38 on January 02, 2013, 04:25:53 PM
These issues generally revolve around being directly behind the 109s.  They are such a low profile bird that you have to be hitting them directly and chances are, the pile it of the 109 does not particularly want to hold still for you to shoot at him.  Shallow to wide deflection shots are the best where the 109 gives you full view of his top-down profile.  If its a K4, you best kill him quick or:

1.  If its a Muppet, your tracers will pizz him off and he'll turn around and kill you;
2.  He'll take his speed and kill you later;
3.  He'll slam the brakes on, you'll slide by and you'll die immediately.

Don't miss as the results are not fun.  Thank you, carry on.

K4 HELPFUL HINT #129


  K4 is my top supplier of spuds  :rolleyes: they die easyer then most other 09s
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Changeup on January 02, 2013, 04:53:17 PM
  K4 is my top supplier of spuds  :rolleyes: they die easyer then most other 09s

That's because your A20 looks like 300 pounds of poo stuffed into a 100 pound bag...and absorbs the taters just as well!
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: cobia38 on January 02, 2013, 05:03:59 PM
That's because your A20 looks like 300 pounds of poo stuffed into a 100 pound bag...and absorbs the taters just as well!

 well yeah,its a flying tank  :P
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: Changeup on January 02, 2013, 05:06:46 PM
well yeah,its a flying tank  :P
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/demotivational-posters-silver-lining.jpg)
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: lulu on January 03, 2013, 08:33:47 AM
"1.  If its a Muppet, your tracers will pizz him off and he'll turn around and kill you;
2.  He'll take his speed and kill you later;
3.  He'll slam the brakes on, you'll slide by and you'll die immediately."


 :rofl



 :salute
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: save on January 03, 2013, 09:42:32 AM
As a flyer of the gun-mobile (A8) I find Yak9's are the most durable fighters in-game.

Most fighters including those mentioned above, die from a solid burst of 4*20mm and 2*13mm, but not the Yak.
They shrug and fly on, less a gear or an aileron.

God help us if we get this durability of a coming yak3, not only faster, but also more manoeuvrable.

Its the only fighter that can soak up close to a buff.

And btw , perk the 3-gun la7.
Title: Re: Some planes seems indestructible
Post by: earl1937 on January 03, 2013, 10:01:05 AM
Done. Found this Aircraft Structure page (http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/aircraft-structure.html), which claims that true monocoque would be too heavy for planes, the solution being semi-monocoque. It also says that early , making my WW1 statement correct.
Looks like my biggest mistake was the phrase "only for -- aerodynamics". Thanks for correction, and making me look for sound information and learn something.  :salute
:airplane: You sir, are correct, the only item in the world which is a true monocoque construction is an "EGG"!