Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hajo on January 03, 2013, 06:57:02 PM
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E15 fuel. 3 States are using E15. I suggest you watch this video. Major auto manufacturers are voiding warranties for use of E15 in some instances!
http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/
I'll have my fuel ethanol free thank you very much!
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Currently at 10 Gas stations in Kansas, Nebraska and Iowa.
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It's all a crock fueled by media exaggeration. In all reality E15 won't hurt anything newer than 1990 and probably not even older cars. There are more fallacies in that new story then I even care to mention right now.
Do you even know what E15 is? It means 15% ethanol, 85% gasoline. Most places are already selling E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) and have done so for years with no ill effects - sans some old carbureted vehicles that still used rubber hoses and seals and even that was due to long term exposure to the alcohol and old parts in borderline condition.
As far as personal experience goes I ran a 50% mix of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline - so about E40 after blending it) for a couple of years in my 1995 Escort with no ill effect. It ran fine, no fuel lines "rotted out", never broke down and always started right up.
E15 only has 5% more ethanol than what most places use now so I doubt it's going to cause any problems. Yes a whole tank of E85 in a non flex-fuel car might make it run rough and/or a check engine light, but it shouldn't cause any long term damage.
No you car isn't going to stall or blow up nor are your fuel lines going to blow because you "accidentally" filled it up with E15. It just doesn't work that way.
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It's all a crock fueled by media exaggeration. In all reality E15 won't hurt anything newer than 1990 and probably not even older cars. There are more fallacies in that new story then I even care to mention right now.
Do you even know what E15 is? It means 15% ethanol, 85% gasoline. Most places are already selling E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) and have done so for years with no ill effects - sans some old carbureted vehicles that still used rubber hoses and seals and even that was due to long term exposure to the alcohol and old parts in borderline condition.
As far as personal experience goes I ran a 50% mix of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline - so about E40 after blending it) for a couple of years in my 1995 Escort with no ill effect. It ran fine, no fuel lines "rotted out", never broke down and always started right up.
E15 only has 5% more ethanol than what most places use now so I doubt it's going to cause any problems. Yes a whole tank of E85 in a non flex-fuel car might make it run rough and/or a check engine light, but it shouldn't cause any long term damage.
No you car isn't going to stall or blow up nor are your fuel lines going to blow because you "accidentally" filled it up with E15. It just doesn't work that way.
I'm not from fort myers, I'm from kansas, but I drive a bmw automobile, a 2008 328i. Here is an excerpt from another forum I read.
To All BMW of Fort Myers Customers:
We have been advised by BMWNA that with the release of E10 and E85 gasoline with ethanol, there is a need to advise customers that is very important to put quality gasoline into their vehicles. The following is a listing of "top tier" retailers:
QuikTrip Phillips Entec
Somerset Refinery Tri-Par Oil
Petro - Canada
Chevron Union 76 MFA Oil
Chevron - Canada Shell - Canada Sunoco - Canada
Conoco Shell
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star Aloha Petroleum Texaco
The sale of E10, blended ethanol fuel, is on the rise in the US as more states are mandating its use to improve air quality. Also promoting the growth of E10 allows the phase out of the current additive MTBE that has been found to contaminate ground water supplies. Even so, the amount of ethanol added to the gasoline could raise the alcohol level of the fuel and cause your vehicle to crank, but not start; stall out; and/or run rough. BMW has advised us that they will not warranty, or goodwill, necessary repairs due to bad gas or high alcohol content in the fuel.
Some of the parts that could be damaged by poor fuel quality include fuel pumps (high pressure pumps as well), fuel filter, injectors, etc. The problems start because E 10 is very effective solvent and it will attack varnish, gum, and resins: the sludge that can build up in fuel tanks. Once cleaned off the fuel tank walls, poor performance with clogged filters and injectors is common. Also ethanol has a great affinity for water, and will attract moisture from the atmosphere. Water is heavier than gas so the water/ethanol molecule is dragged to the bottom of the tank and separates from the more buoyant fuel molecules. This is called phase separation. When this separation occurs you end up with a corrosive water/ethanol layer on the bottom of the tank, under what is now substandard fuel. Water displaces gasoline and then pits and corrodes the metal surfaces causing premature wear on the fuel pump. Water also reacts with various components in the fuel and forms acids, which corrode the injector tips as well.
Water when sucked into an engine will shut it down. It must be cleaned, and the oil changed. However, a water/ethanol mixture causes a more serious problem, because instead of just shutting the engine down, the mixture can be partially cornbusted, but not effectively, which can damage the engine. Over a period of time this mixture will cause excessive carbon deposits, which can wear on pistons and valves.
We recommend that only "top tier" fuels be used, and if necessary a gasoline additive with "techron" be added, occasionally. If possible, make sure you know your gasoline retailer and try to buy your gasoline from the same location as often as possible. The best deal isn't always the cheapest deal.
Here is a link to the forum thread.
I'm sure not gonna use 10 or 15% ethanol as there is plenty of fuel around me without it.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1027358
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It's all a crock fueled by media exaggeration. In all reality E15 won't hurt anything newer than 1990 and probably not even older cars. There are more fallacies in that new story then I even care to mention right now.
Do you even know what E15 is? It means 15% ethanol, 85% gasoline. Most places are already selling E10 (10% ethanol, 90% gasoline) and have done so for years with no ill effects - sans some old carbureted vehicles that still used rubber hoses and seals and even that was due to long term exposure to the alcohol and old parts in borderline condition.
As far as personal experience goes I ran a 50% mix of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline - so about E40 after blending it) for a couple of years in my 1995 Escort with no ill effect. It ran fine, no fuel lines "rotted out", never broke down and always started right up.
E15 only has 5% more ethanol than what most places use now so I doubt it's going to cause any problems. Yes a whole tank of E85 in a non flex-fuel car might make it run rough and/or a check engine light, but it shouldn't cause any long term damage.
No you car isn't going to stall or blow up nor are your fuel lines going to blow because you "accidentally" filled it up with E15. It just doesn't work that way.
The Major Auto Manufacturers tend to disagree with you. If you watched the video (I hope you did) It's the mixing at the pump that is the culprit. The ethenol is settling at the bottom of the fuel tank causing a seperation of 84 octane gas and the ethanol. This causes you to burn all ethanol, then a low octane gas neither of which is good for the car singularly. In this case you are burning alcohol then a cheap low octane gas that causes detenation. (knocking) Even the AAA says this is a severe problem.
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I disagree vehemently with the US ethanol fuel industry.
Unfortunately... I can't get into that here. (see rule #14)
What little I can say here is this.
1) Alcohol is NOT good for rubber seals or hoses, if you have a newer vehicle with buna, teflon or neoprene it's OK.
2) Ethanol has fewer BTUs per gallon then gasoline, meaning your fuel economy will drop. Even though E10/E15 costs the same.
Lastly, for what it's worth Lycoming has put out a service bulletin warning against even E10 fuel in any of their piston engines STC'ed for mogas.
The rest (and 90%) of my dislike for ethanol fuel is political though, sorry. :bolt:
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There has been an ethanol notice on gas pumps here for quite a while, butI noticed a biodiesel warning on the pumps the last time I filled up with diesel in FtWorth. It hasn't made it out to the boonies just yet. I always add Power Service to my fuel anyway, but now's the time to start if you don't.
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The note from BMW explains pretty thoroughly what the downfalls are and why it's dangerous to do it to your daily driver.
It *does* attack rubber ..it's why Holley carbs use steel float needles for alchohol carbs instead of those way cool rubber ones.. for one.
Any rubber in the fuel system subjected to alcohol, even E10 ..will deteriorate much faster ..and it doesn't go quietly into the night.
It comes apart in particles that clog everything.
-Frank aka GE
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Its also quite unpopular with Ducati and Aprilia owners with plastic tanks.
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So basically what they're saying is that you shouldn't use E15 with cars that aren't designed to handle E15
Next story: the menace of diesel fuel pumps at gas stations
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I remember back around 1995 when the switch to E10 was happening. My 89 Ford Escort's fuel pump failed just after E10 was introduced.
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I remember back around 1995 when the switch to E10 was happening. My 89 Ford Escort's fuel pump failed just after E10 was introduced.
Your 89 Escort was not approved to use E10 in the first place. At least down here they continued to sell 99 oct E0 for many years before dumping it a couple years ago. Before that they sold leaded 99 oct also for a transitional period. Are you still driving the -89 car?
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I am not stating good or bad until ALL the facts come in and the general Populace give anything a try, but Here is what snopes .com says
http://www.snopes.com/politics/gasoline/e15.asp not trying to start an argument , just looking for facts!!
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http://www.2wheelpros.com/sta-bil-ethanol-treatment-2360038.html?gclid=CIX8npPDz7QCFZGPPAodLXcA5g (http://www.2wheelpros.com/sta-bil-ethanol-treatment-2360038.html?gclid=CIX8npPDz7QCFZGPPAodLXcA5g)
This helps a lot. :cheers:
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Your 89 Escort was not approved to use E10 in the first place. At least down here they continued to sell 99 oct E0 for many years before dumping it a couple years ago. Before that they sold leaded 99 oct also for a transitional period. Are you still driving the -89 car?
Nope, I sold the 89 car a couple years after.
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well me personally, I wish they would do away with the whole ethanol crap. I have rebuilt the carbs on everything I own, tractors, bikes, sleds, snowblowers, weedwackers, if it has a carb it has been rebuilt. I have NEVER had problems like this until they put that junk in the gasoline. My mom can run e85 in her truck which is a 2007 I think chevy 1500, but she MIGHT get 5 miles per gallon, vs regular gas where she gets 11. I dont see how its "greener" either. So now instead of being refined crude oil or however it works, now you have to have tractors running to cut corn crops, <<<<<burning more diesel. Oh and thanks for taking corn and making food go up also. WHY PUT FOOD IN GASOLINE??????? I dont get it :bhead :bhead :bhead :headscratch: used to when I was a kid, and a lot of you are older than me, you could dump gas on a fire and it would go WHOOOSH now it goes pssss as it putts the fire out :rofl :rofl
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You could always move to Oklahoma. I saw tons of places with 0% ethanol signs. Of course it was 10¢ a gallon higher.
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So basically what they're saying is that you shouldn't use E15 with cars that aren't designed to handle E15
Next story: the menace of diesel fuel pumps at gas stations
Sumed it up right there. :aok
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Here's one that kept us going through the slow months a while back.
On January 16, 2009, Toyota filed a Defect Information Report (DIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) regarding certain 2006 2007 GS 300/350, 2006 2008 IS 250/350 and 2007 2008 LS 460/460L vehicles. The involved vehicles are equipped with aluminum fuel delivery pipes (fuel rails). Lexus has determined that ethanol fuels with low moisture content will corrode the internal surface of the fuel rails. As this condition progresses the engine malfunction light (MIL) may illuminate. Over time, the corrosion will create a pinhole resulting in fuel leakage. SSC 9LA will be launched to replace the Fuel Delivery Pipes in the affected vehicles.
There are approximately 43,700 GS 300 (24,500 2WD, 19,200 AWD), 23,700 GS 350 (14,000 2WD, 9,700 AWD), 85,800 IS 250 (54,000 2WD, 31,800 AWD), 24,900 IS 350, and 36,400 LS 460 (25,500 LS 460, 10,900 LS 460L) vehicles involved in the U.S.
Read more: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-second-generation/403278-lexus-announces-safety-recall-on-select-vehicles.html#ixzz2H9ACQJRm
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In Germany they have E10 since 2011,Now they will stop this big fail cause.
-Combustion engine cars Patent from 1889 yeahr use more Gasoline.
-Combustion engine cars Patent from 1889 yeahr got Fuelpump Gasket damage that means Gazoline runs in the Elektrik and fire...
-Combustion engine cars Patent from 1889 yeahr make less KM/H
-Combustion engine cars Patent from 1889 yeahr make more fine dust that cause 99% Cancer
-The price for food in the World goes dramatic up
-They burn more Forest to make Fields for the Alkohol Ethanol
(-Combustion engine cars Patent from 1889 yeahr are Cars from 1889 till 2013 who use Gazoline to make fire to go forward)
You will Not find a LPG Gas Station in Stuttgart....Thank you Mercedes Mafia and go to Hell with youre stinking New Cars old Tecnik in new dress.....
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my biggest beef so far, especially in fuel stations out in the boonies that may not have a big turn over of fuel and their tanks sit for a while
hygroscopic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy
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This already happen in the early eighties with Gasohol. It ruined gas lines and engines and was dropped like a bad habit. But lets try it again shall we?
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My 2 primary rides are 45 years old. Most of the carb issues I've had happen after they sit for too long. Running them on a daily basis I don't have any trouble. I do change my rubber fuel lines about once per year anyway but that's what I've always done and has nothing to do with the aclohol in the gas. I've started bringing my fuel can for the yard equipment to the airport with me and top off there when I'm filling the plane. 100LL is expensive but it's cheaper than buying a new lawn mower and weed whacker every year. 100LL is also designed to be stored for extended periods of time. Most marinas sell ethonal free gas too. E85 DOES screw stuff up, but mostly when you let the equipment sit for too long in my experience.
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This already happen in the early eighties with Gasohol. It ruined gas lines and engines and was dropped like a bad habit. But lets try it again shall we?
That's my point exactly. Ever since the late 80's cars' fuel systems have been designed to tolerate a certain amount of alcohol (ethanol) in the fuel. Simply put, if you car does fine with E10 it shouldn't have any problems with E15.
Here in Missouri I haven't seen a station that doesn't sell E10 in.. well at least 15 years!
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Not going to put that stuff in my truck . I have to pay alittle more for ethanol free fuel but I have seen that it does to carbs first hand .
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I have two 1988 454's in my boat with Rochester carburetors. I had the floats stick in one of the carbs a few years ago, but that was due more to a bad filter letting junk get in there. I't doesn't have any rubber hoses in the system. I looked in one of the aluminum tanks a couple years ago with a mirror, and it looked brand new. It makes sense, the alcohol mixes with water and removes it from the system.
PS on the other hand, my lawn mower is 4 years old, and the carb was all rusted up running e85. Cheap metal?
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PS on the other hand, my lawn mower is 4 years old, and the carb was all rusted up running e85. Cheap metal?
That and water .