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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vinkman on January 08, 2013, 09:59:14 AM

Title: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Vinkman on January 08, 2013, 09:59:14 AM
Congrats to Snailman for Top Fighter Ranking. Well done sir  :salute
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Hap on January 08, 2013, 10:05:36 AM
 :aok
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: matt on January 08, 2013, 10:38:38 AM
 :aok
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Kovel on January 08, 2013, 10:40:03 AM
 :aok
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Kazaa on January 08, 2013, 10:49:33 AM
 :aok
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Bong40 on January 08, 2013, 10:50:51 AM
 :rock :aok
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 11:02:44 AM
Sorry, but you should rather wonder how it comes that someone with a K/D of only 7.49 is suddenly to be found at #1

No, this is not another false modesty "I'm just an unworthy noob" "tirade, not  an "awwwww...*blush*... come on guys..."

I'm quite serious.

For many years I had much, much 'better' tours (the current one is only my 27th best!) without any chance of ending up at number one at all. And my 'best tours' score-ways had been above that one in tour 155. But suddenly I get to the top three times in a row. Without having become any better, neither in 'real skill' and definitely not in my score.
Where have all the real top fighters gone, that someone like me who spent allmost all of his sorties hunting bombers at 25k and above is now #1?
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Noir on January 08, 2013, 11:42:05 AM
you know the answer snailman

Kills per Death + 1    13.95   9
Kills per Sortie    2.45   58
Kills per Hour of Flight    7.49   165
Kills Hit Percentage    15.08   33
Kill Points   119625.00   1

Kill points did the trick, rare are the pilots patient enough to kill that many point while maintaining the rest of their statistics.
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 11:44:32 AM
I have the feel you are missing my point. ;)
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: uptown on January 08, 2013, 12:13:20 PM
Congrats none the less Lusche. It's nice to see the a lone wolf can get to the top stop. I've long held the belief that's it's impossible unless that person has a whole squad covering their backs. :cheers:

But your point you bring up is very interesting to me. Do you have any clues as to why your somewhat modest K/D and K/T (compared to past #1 spots), made it to #1? :headscratch: :salute

And what were you killing/flying to get those kind of kill points. I'm trying to understand the scoring system in fighter mode. It confuses me to no end.
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 12:24:31 PM
But your point you bring up is very interesting to me. Do you have any clues as to why your somewhat modest K/D and K/T (compared to past #1 spots), made it to #1? :headscratch: :salute

Oh, my K/D was great, it usually is ;)  But why my rather mediocre (for 'top players' at least) K/H suddenly no longer offsets the other stats is the point I'm wondering about. Again, the last tour had been only #27 in my internal ranking. Tours that would not heven have gotten me a 'honorable mention' in the past would now result in an undisputed #1 spot. Almost as if the top furballers and runway vulchers suddenly disappeared from the screen...

And what were you killing/flying to get those kind of kill points. I'm trying to understand the scoring system in fighter mode. It confuses me to no end.

Kill Points are actually mostly Damage Points - It's the amount of damage you inflict on other planes (+1 single point for the actual kill). And  my favourite prey are bombers, which can soak up a lot more damage before going down than a fighter.

Edit: To put things into perspective: 75% of my 569 plane kills in fighters had been bombers! I had only a very small amount to fighter to fighter combat last tour.


Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: LCADolby on January 08, 2013, 12:39:54 PM
climbing to 25k to get 3 kills on buffs is more lucrative than chasing 3 P51s back to their ack these days  :P
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Noir on January 08, 2013, 12:51:22 PM
I have the feel you are missing my point. ;)


Are you saying that the player's top level decreased? I say you mastered that score thing, on top of naturally improving.
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Daddkev on January 08, 2013, 12:53:51 PM
 :O :O :O Dude! Your so awesome!  :x :x :banana: :banana: :airplane: :airplane: :joystick: :joystick: :airplane: :airplane: :joystick: :joystick: :airplane: :airplane: :joystick: :joystick:
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 12:56:38 PM
I say you mastered that score thing, on top of naturally improving.

I can only repeat: My score in last tour has been much worse than in many, many other tours in previous years. I had much better ones in the past, with no chance at all in reaching #1 back then. And three or four times I really tried for it...

Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Vinkman on January 08, 2013, 12:58:46 PM
You and Uptown may both be right. I think the furballers need squad support, and a fresh stack of noobs. I don't see the top dog-fighting squads logging anywhere near as much time together as they used to. So perhaps that has lead to a new formula for winning the tour. Possible factors...

1. Dog fighting squad inactivity.
    - just don't see the Few, Muppets, Top gun, Loose Dueces, etc out there pack hunting anymore.

2. Average pilot quality is increasing.
    - there seems to be fewer noobs, and numbers guys. I find I come across more and more skilled fliers, in both ACM and SA. There's so much less free lunch these days.

But you are really under estimating your skill level if you have achieved that kill ratio by attacking buff formations at High altitude. That is tough work.  :salute
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 01:03:13 PM
But you are really under estimating your skill level if you have achieved that kill ratio by attacking buff formations at High altitude.

Oh, I never said I'm bad at what I'm doing  :D



To underline my point of "I had better scores back then": One of my best tours in the past compared with last tour:

(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/99to155_zps8c369b22.jpg)


EDIT: I just ran the numbers. My undisputed #1 score in tour 155 would have only given me rank #17 in tour 99...  :old:
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Randy1 on January 08, 2013, 01:07:39 PM
I had Snailman's 262 in my Typhon's site the other night.  We were in a big green hoard of giddy pilots flying over the remains of an enemy base watching the last of the reds being chased down by four or five of our comrades planes.  Then Snailman came in at a blistering pace in his 262.  He started stringing up kills like threading a set green beads.  I turned my typhoon down and around trying to cut him off in  his long sweeping turn as he turned each green icon into a puff of smoke.  Wow! he never missed.  I could not read my comrades icon fast enough to warn them before snailman pulled the trigger.  

I got within 1k when he broke for home.  I mashed WEP with glory in my every thought as I laid my plan to pop him at his home base just as he went to land.  I pushed the nose down into a slight dive to pick up as much speed as I could.  I figured push it all the way to the deck because my shot chance would be on his final approach and near the runway.  My heart started pounding as his home base radar tower came into sight.  Oh the glory.  I pushed the typhoon down to just above the tree tops.  My hands were sweating.  My finger trembled on the trigger.  My eyes pinch to a bead searching for the Snailman.  Then . . . with dreams of my Snailman victory tickling my soul.  Putter, putter . . .  putter putter.  The motor died.  I was out of gas fifty feet off the deck so close to his home base I could see the steel braces in the radar tower.

It wasn't a pretty after that.
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Vinkman on January 08, 2013, 01:15:58 PM
I had Snailman's 262 in my Typhon's site the other night.  We were in a big green hoard of giddy pilots flying over the remains of an enemy base watching the last of the reds being chased down by four or five of our comrades planes.  Then Snailman came in at a blistering pace in his 262.  He started stringing up kills like threading a set green beads.  I turned my typhoon down and around trying to cut him off in  his long sweeping turn as he turned each green icon into a puff of smoke.  Wow! he never missed.  I could not read my comrades icon fast enough to warn them before snailman pulled the trigger.  

I got within 1k when he broke for home.  I mashed WEP with glory in my every thought as I laid my plan to pop him at his home base just as he went to land.  I pushed the nose down into a slight dive to pick up as much speed as I could.  I figured push it all the way to the deck because my shot chance would be on his final approach and near the runway.  My heart started pounding as his home base radar tower came into sight.  Oh the glory.  I pushed the typhoon down to just above the tree tops.  My hands were sweating.  My finger trembled on the trigger.  My eyes pinch to a bead searching for the Snailman.  Then . . . with dreams of my Snailman victory tickling my soul.  Putter, putter . . .  putter putter.  The motor died.  I was out of gas fifty feet off the deck so close to his home base I could see the steel braces in the radar tower.

It wasn't a pretty after that.


 :rofl  Awsome.  :aok
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Chalenge on January 08, 2013, 01:30:29 PM
It wasn't a pretty after that.

And we thought you scrubbed your prop in the trees.  :D
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: tunnelrat on January 08, 2013, 01:32:19 PM
Although some people dismiss the overall tactical/strategic war game going on in the MA, many don't... and your exploits defending the strats have huge repercussions all around (since you don't wait for buffs to get in their bombsites and drop to attack).

 :salute
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: SmokinLoon on January 08, 2013, 01:33:17 PM
Ever wonder if HTC changes the weight of the categories from time to time without mentioning it?  I'm mean really, the entire scoring, ranking, and perk system is based off arbitrary numbers that HTC can change when and how they see fit.

It is no secret the it is not "how" a kill is earned only that it occurs.  That is too bad, really.  For a person who lands 10 kills in a P40N should in theory be a more "skilled" pilot than a person who does the same in a P51D, and hence should have a higher than typical score or ranking.  Take a look at Bong and his P38 vs the early and mid war pilots from Japan, vs Preddy and his P51D and his victories vs late war Luftwaffe pilots.  Who had to work harder and who had more of a challenge?  For the record, I'm not taking away anything from anyone as they all deserve our respect, but like in AH it does not matter what plane they flew or what the enemy was flying or even the ability of the enemy pilots, all that matters is the "kills".  HTC compensates players for using high ENY aircraft (P40x, 109Gx, etc) by awarding perk points but ultimately that means nothing in terms of ranking or scoring.

To achieve a high rank or score in fighters, it is all about maximizing your ability to get guns on as many targets as possible without letting guns get on you.  Hence, why the LW server will never see someone in the high ranking places using less than 5-10 ENY planes.  As Looshy said, 3/4th's of his kills were bombers.  Do you think he used anything but 163's, Ta152's, Me262's, Me410's, or other such prime bomber killers???  I dont even have to look up his stats and I can tell you that.  Do you think he took up a P40x, or a P39, or how about a 109G-6 to round out his fighter score???  Go ahead and look and report back.

Learn the scoring system, exploit the best way to achieve it, and go to it.  :aok

It would be nice if HTC had a way of sorting out the ranking system a bit further to award "Best Luftwaffe Fighter Pilot", or "Best Japanese Bomber Pilot", or "Best RAF OBJ Attacker", etc, etc. Yeah, there would be 20 different "best" categories of all listings were used (4 categories w/ 5 countries), but it might make it worth while to pay attention to what people used as a platform to get the job done.   :aok                
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 01:36:45 PM
Ever wonder if HTC changes the weight of the categories from time to time without mentioning it?

No, because I know they don't  :P

Hence, why the LW server will never see someone in the high ranking places using less than 5-10 ENY planes.        

Low ENY rides help a lot, but there are many examples of players reaching #1 in planes with much higher ENY, like 109K or P-38.
Getting there in a C.202 would be a feat though ;)
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 01:42:31 PM
 Do you think he used anything but 163's, Ta152's, Me262's, Me410's, or other such prime bomber killers???  I dont even have to look up his stats and I can tell you that.  Do you think he took up a P40x, or a P39, or how about a 109G-6 to round out his fighter score???  

I did a few hops in  109F (20 kills), Ki-84, La-5 and some other rides as well, but not enough to make your statement above invalid  ;)

(For the record, my 27 kills in the Tempest as well as my 15 in the La-7 had all been in 'attack' mode)
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 02:01:30 PM
Maybe that's part of the answer to my own basic question:

(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/khfighter05-12_zps471dab4c.jpg)
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Noir on January 08, 2013, 02:08:53 PM
Maybe that's part of the answer to my own basic question:

(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/khfighter05-12_zps471dab4c.jpg)

well if there's less air to air kills and less planes in the air in general, players will get on the average less kills am I right?

Greebo's map, that just stayed on for about 40H, featured very few air combat when I was on. I blame the gvs.
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 02:13:50 PM
well if there's less air to air kills and less planes in the air in general, players will get on the average less kills am I right?

I tend to agree, though I think several factors may add up contibuting to this, for example:

- Less players means less "combat density", especially at off peak hours.
- Slow change in 'game culture', from plane-centric to 'mission-centric' due to a new generation of players, resulting in fewer genuine furballs (speculative)
- Increase of GV aspect of the game (especially appealing to newer players without a joystick)
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: maxy on January 08, 2013, 04:00:11 PM
congrats and well done  :salute
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: kvuo75 on January 08, 2013, 06:06:18 PM
Maybe that's part of the answer to my own basic question:

(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/khfighter05-12_zps471dab4c.jpg)

one of the most interesting charts i've seen you post.


edit:
and i presume attack mode is similar, and doesnt show growth?

edited again:

i came here in tour 81.. blame me  :D
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
and i presume attack mode is similar, and doesnt show growth?

Attack mode K/H look very similar


i came here in tour 81.. blame me  :D


In tour 80 the great Arena Split happened, going from 1 single main to EW, MW, LW, LW format and arena caps. That might have had a slightly bigger impact...  :noid
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: RotBaron on January 08, 2013, 11:00:14 PM
Quote from: SmokinLoon on Today at 01:33:17 PM
Hence, why the LW server will never see someone in the high ranking places using less than 5-10 ENY planes.       

Low ENY rides help a lot, but there are many examples of players reaching #1 in planes with much higher ENY, like 109K or P-38.
Getting there in a C.202 would be a feat though Wink


Wait, it does or it does not? To clarify my question: Does flying a higher eny plane effect the other facets of ranking? I.e. do you get more points for higher eny kills/object damage?


 :salute

Rot
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Lusche on January 08, 2013, 11:20:41 PM
Wait, it does or it does not? To clarify my question: Does flying a higher eny plane effect the other facets of ranking? I.e. do you get more points for higher eny kills/object damage?


Sorry that I was a bit unclear. Low Eny rides 'help' inasmuch as it's easier to get a lot of kills in short time and getting home. The advantages of the Tempest over the, let's say, C.202 are pretty much obvious in that regard.
But beyond that, ENY or OBJ of a plane have no direct influence on the score itself.
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: RotBaron on January 08, 2013, 11:24:50 PM

But beyond that, ENY or OBJ of a plane have no direct influence on the score itself.

Thank you.

 :salute
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Babalonian on January 09, 2013, 05:19:57 PM
Sorry, but you should rather wonder how it comes that someone with a K/D of only 7.49 is suddenly to be found at #1

No, this is not another false modesty "I'm just an unworthy noob" "tirade, not  an "awwwww...*blush*... come on guys..."

I'm quite serious.

For many years I had much, much 'better' tours (the current one is only my 27th best!) without any chance of ending up at number one at all. And my 'best tours' score-ways had been above that one in tour 155. But suddenly I get to the top three times in a row. Without having become any better, neither in 'real skill' and definitely not in my score.
Where have all the real top fighters gone, that someone like me who spent allmost all of his sorties hunting bombers at 25k and above is now #1?

Honestly, this is how I feel this month/tour so far, my overall rank is rediculously up.  I swear, I'm not that good  :noid  :headscratch:  :banana:
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Babalonian on January 09, 2013, 05:37:38 PM
Attack mode K/H look very similar



In tour 80 the great Arena Split happened, going from 1 single main to EW, MW, LW, LW format and arena caps. That might have had a slightly bigger impact...  :noid

(http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/angry_mob_by_acwraith.jpg)
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: RedBull1 on January 09, 2013, 05:49:52 PM
Game ID   Overall Rank   Fighter Rank
VonMessa        829                       1 <-- (I think von flew his first fighter sortie and it's some stat glitch)
RedBull            440                       2
Snailman           3                         3

 :O :mad: Stay away this tour Snaily  :noid

*slips snail $20* Go auger a few fighter sorties

OR ELSE....

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToUaYFz-AqlTIaKYAO0nzHTxeR0U2vS9R6StdKRbaPfjfals8JxQ)
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: RotBaron on January 09, 2013, 10:49:32 PM

OR ELSE....

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToUaYFz-AqlTIaKYAO0nzHTxeR0U2vS9R6StdKRbaPfjfals8JxQ)



 :lol 

Arming my tail gunners with salt shakers   :D
Title: Re: congrats to Snailman
Post by: Volron on January 09, 2013, 11:12:55 PM
Game ID   Overall Rank   Fighter Rank
VonMessa        829                       1 <-- (I think von flew his first fighter sortie and it's some stat glitch)
RedBull            440                       2
Snailman           3                         3

 :O :mad: Stay away this tour Snaily  :noid

*slips snail $20* Go auger a few fighter sorties

OR ELSE....

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToUaYFz-AqlTIaKYAO0nzHTxeR0U2vS9R6StdKRbaPfjfals8JxQ)

 :rofl