Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: TheMercinary60 on January 08, 2013, 08:54:39 PM
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Another little project ive had in mind for awjile. Just curious if theres anything specific i should know and maybe some advice on the hardware... also it maybe a stupid question but how do i go about switching from one caliber to another? At the moment i have. 38 special, 7.62x54, and 762.x39 if that gives you any ideas on what i might need to know
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What do you mean switching?
There are separate dies for separate calibers. The scales, presses, etc., remain the same for the most part.
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yes mtnman is correct, I have 1 press and about 8 different dies for different guns. along with that comes shell holders also.
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Reloading is the only way a nagant revolver will gain any accuracy.
Most of the rounds available for them are extremely low power so......a bit more power really wakes up that gun.
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Welcome to a hobby within a hobby. :cheers:
I would suggest getting a single stage press unless you're loading for absolute volume. On some other forums I frequent the general recommendation is that progressives are fine for noobs, but I disagree. Too much going on at once. I'm in the middle of troubleshooting a progressive press as we speak, and they can be frustrating to say the least.
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Welcome to a hobby within a hobby. :cheers:
I'm in the middle of troubleshooting a progressive press as we speak, and they can be frustrating to say the least.
AMEN!!! I have a Dillon (650) progressive.....and an RCBS Rock Chucker (Single Stage) and i use the RCBS 95% of the time. Its more theraputic in my mind :D
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I have an rcbs rockchucker also, works great. my dad has an rcbs progressive loader, but we alsays used it as a single stage, the powder thrower wouldnt throw the powder we used(dont remember off the top of my head what it was imr 4831 i believe) grains were too big. so that was a total waste of money.lol
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AMEN!!! I have a Dillon (650) progressive.....and an RCBS Rock Chucker (Single Stage) and i use the RCBS 95% of the time. Its more theraputic in my mind :D
Haha... yup. Sometimes I don't wanna get finished. :D
I got the Hornady LNL AP last year for Christmas and have just now got around to getting it squared away. Part of the issue was the money to feed the damn thing, and the other, like you, was just enjoying the Rock Chucker for what it is.
I want to get back into pistol shooting though. As long as component prices don't get nuts on me again, I'm hoping the Hornady fits the bill.
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If you are going to get started in reloading I suggest you make one purchase right now. The book is titled, Modern Reloading Second Edition by Richard Lee. It has a great explanation of the process as well as a review of the more common and available tools used in reloading. It also have a lot of load data or "recipes" if you will for loads of tons of calibers. I suggest you get at least 2, preferably 3 loading manuals so you can cross check load data on cartridges.
To get started buying one of the "kits" by Lee, Lyman or RCBS is the way to go. The kit will have the majority of the tools you will want. I have a personal preference for RCBS in the press (rock chucker is best single stage IMO)and powder throw myself. You will also need a set of scales for powder measurement to calibrate the powder measure. Dies by any of the manufacturers are good. Just make sure you get the kind that will fit in your press. I like the universal thread style as you can buy from any manufacturer then. You can use the press to seat dies but I prefer the Lee hand primer for that job myself. Much better feel for when the primer seats and you don't crush them with the press leverage.
Pistol dies come in a 3 pack, rifles normally in a 2 pack. You want a carbide pistol die set. Saves you tons of time since you do not need to lube cases.
Use the loading manual to find a powder that will do as many of the cartridges you want t load. Some powders are very specific like small cases or very large cases or fast / slow burning rates. There are several pistol powders that will handle multiple handgun cartridges form target up top magnum loads.
The 3 cartridges you list can be covered in probably 2 powders. One for the pistol and one for rifle.
The variables are one of the big fascinations with reloading. Various powders can provide peak accuracy and or velocity. They rarely are the same load for each goal. The max speed is seldom the most accurate load. You can get bogged down in the different powders and slug selection to keep you busy for a lifetime in just one caliber like .308 and 30-06 for example.
Do some reading then you'll have an idea about getting started. You can go ultra cheap with the old Lee hammer style dies that do not use a press. I do not recommend you do this. Using a hammer to load a cartridge is hardly a precision way to go and it is very very very slow. I also do not like using powder dippers, too imprecise especially in some pistol powder recipes where using only 4 grains of powder is the norm. That is a tiny amount of powder and I know of a few 38 special loads that use only about 2.5 grains of powder. Keep in mind that there are 7,000 grains in a pound of powder.
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Mercenary, if you ignore every other post here, make sure you read Mavericks........To say he hit the nail on the head would be an understatement.
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Mercenary, if you ignore every other post here, make sure you read Mavericks........To say he hit the nail on the head would be an understatement.
i was thinking the same thing haha, thats just the kind of post i was looking for. thank you Maverick and everyone else for the help
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There are several forums that are excellent resources as well. My personal favorite is snipershide.com. Not only do they have good resources for noobs, but have all the info you need if you decide to obsessively pursue extreme accuracy. :rock
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There are several forums that are excellent resources as well. My personal favorite is snipershide.com. Not only do they have good resources for noobs, but have all the info you need if you decide to obsessively pursue extreme accuracy. :rock
thanks, i may have yo look into it, but im afraid id need more then the perfect bullet for better accuracy :lol
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There are several forums that are excellent resources as well. My personal favorite is snipershide.com. Not only do they have good resources for noobs, but have all the info you need if you decide to obsessively pursue extreme accuracy. :rock
Once again AMEN!! Preach on brother Triton!! (lol sry couldnt resist :D )
I got alot of good info on there when i was trying to dial in my TRG.
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This is a very helpful getting started link...
http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2359815/1/New_to_Reloading_info
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Once again AMEN!! Preach on brother Triton!! (lol sry couldnt resist :D )
I got alot of good info on there when i was trying to dial in my TRG.
:rofl
I actually had to stop reading that forum for a little bit because I was becoming so picky about my loads. I was approaching a level of obsessiveness that would make even my like minded friends not want to talk reloading with me. :uhoh
And to the OP, this goes without saying and you'll read it again 100 times on any decent reloading forum you get on, but ALWAYS work up your loads carefully... little by little. I've used lots of data pulled from the interwebs, in addition to advice about the limits of certain cartridges/guns, but ALWAYS verify these yourself through careful workup.
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Dies by any of the manufacturers are good. Just make sure you get the kind that will fit in your press. I like the universal thread style as you can buy from any manufacturer then. You can use the press to seat dies but I prefer the Lee hand primer for that job myself. Much better feel for when the primer seats and you don't crush them with the press leverage.
I cant say as I agree with this, unless my experience was a fluke. I have as I said a single stage rcbs press, and a buddy bought hornady dies. No matter how or what we adjusted, it would crush the necks all up. took his dies over to another friend of mine who has a million presses, put it in his press(cant think of name it was red all I can think of right now) and it worked great, back in my rcbs press back to the crushed necks. Like I said maybe it was a fluke or just not compatible.
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I also do not like using powder dippers, too imprecise especially in some pistol powder recipes where using only 4 grains of powder is the norm. That is a tiny amount of powder and I know of a few 38 special loads that use only about 2.5 grains of powder. Keep in mind that there are 7,000 grains in a pound of powder.
Precision is the key to good reloading. My favorite .45 ACP load contains 3 grains of Clays shotgun powder. It's a very soft load and I can target shoot all day without tiring, and Clays powder burns clean, so cleaning the pistol is a snap.
One other thing I'd like to mention is...concentrate on what you are doing at all times...and if you have any doubt about a load and have already seated the bullet...err on the side of safety and take the time to pull the bullet, dump the load, and start again.
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+1 on maverick's post. All good info.
I like the Lee turret presses myself. With the auto index feature, it's like a semi-progressive. You do one step at a time on one case only but you dont need to remove the case from the press from star to finish unlike a single stage if you load in batch. Put the case on the press and in 3-4 pull of the handle, you have a complee round with little chance of a mishap since you do one complete round then move on to the next.
It's the most enjoyable thing I do with my free time short of actually shooting my guns. I even cast my own bullets out of old wheel weight. It really cut down on the cost vs commercial bullets. I can do 45 ACP for 3$/50 and I do 30-06 for 3.50$/20. I can shoot all day long for less than what golfing used to cost me! How about that!
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AMEN!!! I have a Dillon (650) progressive.....and an RCBS Rock Chucker (Single Stage) and i use the RCBS 95% of the time. Its more theraputic in my mind :D
Broken, or just don't like the others?
Always wanted to try my hand at making dies for reloading presses.
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I did not read all of this but.....If you work up a load.... fire one and get the case. Then look at your primer. If it has flattened meaning the bevel around the primer looks different then when it was first loaded do not keep shooting these rounds. Use your bullet puller remove the bullet and powder then fire the empty case to blow the primer. When you see primer flattening you are about to make things go boom. Google this for more information.
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Broken, or just don't like the others?
Always wanted to try my hand at making dies for reloading presses.
Oh know, they both work great......I just learned with the Rock Chucker. Reloaded tens of thousands of rounds with my dad growing up (a large portion of my RCBS stuff is the same equipement) and just like the one round at a time process. I do use the Dillon to reload the ammunition i use for IPSC shooting though (45 & 38super).....I can get more rounds in less time, but im burning thru them 3 times faster than anything else i shoot.
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I did not read all of this but.....If you work up a load.... fire one and get the case. Then look at your primer. If it has flattened meaning the bevel around the primer looks different then when it was first loaded do not keep shooting these rounds. Use your bullet puller remove the bullet and powder then fire the empty case to blow the primer. When you see primer flattening you are about to make things go boom. Google this for more information.
While this sounds like good advice it is outdated and mostly incorrect.
Back in the olden days, I'm talking the 50's and 60's before home chronographs were invented and before there was a lot of load data about, this was standard advice. In today's world it ain't. There are lots of loads, especially in rifles that will lead to a flattened primer. It does not mean the load was excessive. There are other case criteria you can look at depending on what kind of case you are using to help determine if the load is too hot. In all fairness the case condition is far too crude and rude to be a proper gauge of the load. There are too many variables in the case such as brittleness of the case, size of the primer pocket as well as primer itself for a couple to be a reliable indicator.
On the other hand if you have a case where the primer is severely deformed, falls out of the primer pocket, show signs of gas escaping around the primer or has a crack around the case forward of the head of the case, is difficult to remove from the chamber, stop shooting those loads and find out what the load consists of and check it against the load manual. Of course that still won't tell you if the problem is a magnum primer in a load where a standard was called for and the magnum peaked pressure outside of normal parameters. You can't tell a magnum primer from standard by looking at it. They are identical in appearance.
Lots of handloaders get into trouble because they think that factory ammo and the loading manuals are set with data that is too conservative. Hogwash. While the factory does have to set loads that are supposed to be safe in many different brands of firearms they ain't piddling along unless you are getting reduced velocity loads.
The loading manuals were set up using proper pressure barrels and determined by the use of proper and dedicated pressure equipment. Those loads are set to a SAAMI standard, the same kind of standard the gun manufacturers use to make the barrels, chambers and receivers to. Yeah you might be able to gain a couple hundred FPS in any given load but without a pressure system on your gun you have no idea if you took a good standard load from the max pressure of say 55,000 CUP to over 70,000 CUP or far more and risk blowing a fine gun up. Not to mention all the soft fleshy matter next the gun like your soft head. Trying to shoot what amounts to a proof load will not do you, the gun or the folks near you any good.
As I stated before, the max velocity load is rarely the most accurate and certainly not the most economical. To get that last couple hundred FPS you may have to add an exceptional amount of powder as case and powder efficiency are not static. There is a point of diminishing returns where more powder does not equal an equivalent increase in velocity. It most often equals a very slight increase in velocity at the expense of considerable hazard and shortened component and gun life. I have found better accuracy in mid range loads and can get more shots per case, pound of powder and gun than by trying to make the gun into a projectile flame thrower. Your cost per round goes up the more powder you use, especially if you only get one or two loads out of each case instead of 8 to 15.
If you think you know better than the engineers, physicists, ballisticians and chemists who put the stuff together, then you are in the wrong hobby and I damn sure don't want you next to me on the range. There are ballisticians who study this stuff for a lifetime and none of them will tell you they know it all.
One last thing. The reason I said it was a good idea to have multiple manuals is because sometimes they do make a mistake. My first manual had a load for a 38 special using a very fast powder, Bullseye, that was not safe. I fired 6 rounds, it sounded like a magnum and I had to pound the cases out with a rod. Another manual showed a 357 magnum max load with less of that powder in it. Fortunately I was shooting a very heavy 357 pistol built on a 44 frame and cylinder to it did not damage the gun but I pulled every load and redid them. I threw away the cases I fired.
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well...from a liability stand point this is very sound advice. You want to make hot loads....go right ahead...I stop at the point where pressures are coming in my direction (Flattening primers) vs. out of the barrel of the gun. My .02.
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^^says the guy buying up all the primers :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
:D
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^^says the guy buying up all the primers :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
:D
I dun get it dunny. You actually want to hear this from guys loading ammo you might shoot. I'm thinking of you when you shoot my ammo.
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Just giving you hell. I'm also having a hard time finding primers. And, I'm blaming YOU!!
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I dont think I have any primers either if I do its only about 100 magnum primers. I got one for you all that reload. I bought my wife a 300 wsm, bought some brass and dies to reload them, I like shooting sierra bullets also have the sierra reloading manual, I believe in having manuals to what bullets I am shooting. Anyways got some 180 grain boat tails using IMR 4831 powder the book suggests a minimum load of 61.6 grains, so we zeroed the scale set it to 62 grains put funnel in case and the powder totally filled the case and still had a lot of powder in the funnel. in order to get ALL of the powder in case at 61.6 grains is to have 2 full length arrow shafts put together as a drop tube. Now the book doesnt mention ANYTHING about this being a compressed load and quite frankly it scares the CRAP right out of me, so I have never made any ammo for the dang thing and the ammo is quite pricey for it. :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch: so I have 200 pieces of brass, a set of dies that I cant use unless somone can help lol. I have asked a couple gunshops here but they aint got a clue
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Homer, That load should be good. My Lee manual lists a starting load for the 300 WSM at 65.5 gr of H4831. Not all cases are the same however and yours might be on the thick walled side. The other option is to makes darn sure that you zero'd the scale properly.
What kind of scale are you using, a balance beam or an electronic one? If it is a balance beam reset it back to zero and start over. If it is an electronic one try to check it against a balance beam scale. I'm not a fan of the electronic kind, I'm too cheap to buy one and all the batteries as well as a variety of scale weights for true calibration. I've seen too many electronic gizmos wig out to really trust one over a balance beam I can see working.
The other option is to go to a ball powder as it meters far better than the old style tubular powders. In your case you'll only get a bit over 100 rounds per pound of powder in that cartridge.
The drop tube is an old reloaders trick for the long grain powders like 4831. Another is to use a small vibrating stand to help settle the powder in the case as you fill. More than a couple rifle loads are actually compressed powder loads so it is not terribly unusual. Not real comforting but not that unusual.
I just thought of another thing, I could be wrong but I have heard of some duplication of some of the old Hogdon powder numbers that actually turned out to be a different powder. Go to the Hogdon powder web site and confirm the powder you have with their data.
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I have a balance beam scale and when we were loading for it, I thought the zero was off so I double checked, and tripple checked. still same deal, borrowed a friends digital scale and was right on the money. I never thought of using ball powder, read vitivohi( i think thats how its spelled) is supposed to be a good powder, my friend uses it shooting 1000 yard rifle matches. supposed to burn better I think. I gues I just need to get the cahones to go shoot the darn thing lol. just scares the heck out of me :D
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when I first reloaded ammo for my 30-06 I was nervous too. Especially when I was working up some super hot long range loads. But if you follow the recipe you will be fine. Just make sure your ingredients are correct!
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I stopped using a tube type powder for my rifle loads. I got tired of the powder throw having to cut grains and it was never the right weight. I always had to add some with a powder trickler then load the case. A royal PITA IMO. I went to a ball powder and haven't looked back. I like BLC2 for mid range loads and it will be good in cartridges from the 5.56 through 30-06. That covers anything I reload. Like I said before I don't bother with trying to get the most velocity anymore. I found that my accuracy was better with a more midrange load, my cases last longer as does the barrel. I also get a few more rounds per pound of powder as well. The game animals I have taken never showed that they could tell the difference between the super duper whiz bang sonic screamer load and my mid range loads. They just dropped, or in the case of the 22-250 I had, kinda exploded. Then again varmints aren't going to be on the table. The coyotes just dropped like they were hit by a truck.
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best load in my 06 for consistency is 52 grains of 4350 and 220 grain bullet. My scope just jives with it perfectly and I can shoot anything in NA with it. Better to have a big bullet and not need it than to have too small of one and make the bear reaaaaaly mad.
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best load I have found for my 300 mag is 180 gr sierra spbt backed with 71 grains imr 4831. Groups suck at 100-300 yards like a 5" 3 shot group, but out 400 to 1000 it drills :rock not sure why it doesnt group well below 300 yards, thats with any load any ammo. factory ammo hahahaha forget it wont waste my time or money
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best load in my 06 for consistency is 52 grains of 4350 and 220 grain bullet. My scope just jives with it perfectly and I can shoot anything in NA with it. Better to have a big bullet and not need it than to have too small of one and make the bear reaaaaaly mad.
i forget who said it but "overkill is under rated"