Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: matt72078 on January 14, 2013, 02:00:04 PM
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From what i've read about the battles of Midway, Coral Sea, Marianas, Leyte Gulf. It seems that dive bombers and torpedo planes were killing the CV's. Not BUFFs from high altitude. Every time BUFFs tried to bomb ships they missed. So why don't we make the BUFFs really easy to kill with puffy ack, and the TBD's, SBD's, VAL's and BN5's harder to kill with the 5 inchers. It would be nice to be able to take off with torpedos and feal like i had a chance at hitting something and surviving.
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I am allllll in favor of this...
Big torpedo run fan, but as it stands, the vast majority of CVs are killed by high alt buffs and lack of turning the CV. MAYBE finished off with a Jug or 51/38 Divebomb.
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+1 Might as well take fish out of the game as they a basically useless.
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i use torps all they time. i only attack ships with torps. there are a few tricks to the trade to be more successful. 1st look at the training diagram! 2nd attack from the side gunners are most likely NOT looking. if that is not working try to hit ship in the bow (head on). U can release torp from much further away if ship is steaming right at it.
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Bombers missed from altitude because they were level and the ships were turning. Bombers are already really easy to kill with puffy ack, just hit them and you will see.
Messing with the puffy ack because you dont understand the game isnt going to happen.
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Bombers missed from altitude because they were level and the ships were turning. Bombers are already really easy to kill with puffy ack, just hit them and you will see.
Messing with the puffy ack because you dont understand the game isnt going to happen.
Maybe the OP means auto-puffy? The auto-puffy doesn't do much to heavy bombers as it is; they're basically invulnerable to it.
Within the context of WW2 heavy bombers weren't accurate enough to take out a CV. In the game, with no weather and the super-accurate bombsite it's so easy even I can (occasionally) manage it.
I imagine you could change the coding so that the auto-puffy has a multiplier effect on formations. So that any buffs within x range of CV would effectively be destroyed or partially destroyed. And that could work to eliminate heavy bomber attacks on CVs. (Not sure how fair that would be to the bomber guys though.)
Even so I don't see that encouraging anything other jabo attacks from fighters. SBD's take too long a time to get to alt, and it takes a whole lot of them anyway to bring down a carrier. Two TBMs with torps can do it, but it's really difficult to hit a CV with a torpedo in the first place, and if there's any manned guns you're dead anyway before you can get close enough to drop.
So I'd have to say this is one where historical verisimilitude would have to take a backseat to the realities (unrealities?) of the game mechanics.
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Strange, I just used torpedoes successfully this morning, sank the cruiser and carrier in one sortie.
The torpedoes aren't the problem, and when done right they deliver a very respectable amount of damage to the target. It is, however, always a one-way trip in the MAs, they lethality and inability for all forms of a task group's AAA to differentiate between a B-17 to TBM and P51 makes it most unpredjiduce. You have only a couple seconds at most for your opportunity to drop, during which you must be at the right altitude and speed, before being whammied.
I find Ju-88s are the best, they're tough enough to survive 1-2 seconds longer than any other torp plane, and you get three of them - enough fodder for you to definitively close the distance enough to get past the foremost destroyer screen, and even occasionally within 500-yards of the CV itself!
^ not a new gripe.
I was thinking this morning of a new thought/gripe with the CV auto-puffy ack while simultaneously trying to avoid it but frustrated at it due to chasing geniuses who can't play with more than a two-card deck (come in high, run back to AAA). I was avoiding it, turning around as soon as the chase lead me into it, but it still persists indefinitely and at a much longer range than what it took to first trigger it. I could see the cons I had chased into it at dot distance, they were well over their carrier climbing. This is what I assumed - the puffy ack I first triggered at distance X and was still on me at distance 2X was their neon sign. No problem I thought, I flew 1-2 minutes away from the carrier now, loosing dot distance and finally all puffy ack, turned back and found them finally leaving the nest. I dive in, they dive out and back to their CV on the deck, I pick up puffy and turn tail to climb at a further distance - and the loop continues, assumption confirmed.
Puffy ack over CVs should offer a few good things to its friendly players, but I was getting sick and fast of how much it was offering my timid opponents in this instance.
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Strange, I just used torpedoes successfully this morning, sank the cruiser and carrier in one sortie.
The torpedoes aren't the problem, and when done right they deliver a very respectable amount of damage to the target. It is, however, always a one-way trip in the MAs, they lethality and inability for all forms of a task group's AAA to differentiate between a B-17 to TBM and P51 makes it most unpredjiduce. You have only a couple seconds at most for your opportunity to drop, during which you must be at the right altitude and speed, before being whammied.
I find Ju-88s are the best, they're tough enough to survive 1-2 seconds longer than any other torp plane, and you get three of them - enough fodder for you to definitively close the distance enough to get past the foremost destroyer screen, and even occasionally within 500-yards of the CV itself!
^ not a new gripe.
i think the TBM is most survivable torp plane...ive only dont it a couple of times but if you use the Training page on Torps you can almost alway get away alive. with right lead you drop torp as soon as the destroyers start firing 40mm at you. at that point drop torp and get fly away.
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3897/torpguide.png)
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I think it's an accuracy thing...... AH Level bombing seems to be very accurate and seems to permit a mix of salvo's and delay's that make a single bomber or tri formation very lethal indeed.
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I'm pretty sure in WW2 single torpedo planes didn't make runs on capital ships. Try taking up a flight of 12 tbm's and let me know how it turns out. Use proper tactics.
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I'm pretty sure in WW2 single torpedo planes didn't make runs on capital ships. Try taking up a flight of 12 tbm's and let me know how it turns out. Use proper tactics.
Battle of Samar in which numerous USN planes made desperate attacks in groups and single attacks against the Japanese battleships and cruisers to cover the retreat of the slow jeep carriers (Taffy 1, Taffy 2 and Taffy 3). The battle is described in detail in the book "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" and describes attacks by single TBMs dropping whatever they could on the Japanese ships, including one story of a TBM pilot firing his .38 caliber pistol as he flew over a Japanese cruiser.
ack-ack
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Maybe the OP means auto-puffy? The auto-puffy doesn't do much to heavy bombers as it is; they're basically invulnerable to it.
yeah but the auto puffy wouldn't be shooting at a torpedo plane either, unless they for some reason are doing a torp run above 3000msl.
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Put a standing CAP of fighters over the CV, force the bombers to higher altitudes to avoid interception and someone manning the helm to turn at the appropriate time and the bombers will miss a lot in here too. :)
*edit*
There are already a couple advantages that torpedo and dive bombers have. For years now the torpedoes score double the weight in damage to model the hit below the waterline, and now with the introduction of something other than general purpose bombs (the 1000lb AP bomb on the SBD for instance) the ship killers do have a pound for pound advantage over the heavies.
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For years now the torpedoes score double the weight in damage to model the hit below the waterline
Wait, what? I wasn't aware of this. Hmm... So I may actually convince some folks into a Kate run against a TG now. :)
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For the purpose of torpedo bombing, I don't think the auto puffy ack is an issue. What I hate are the manned 5" puffies. What I hate most is that they can still blow you away when you are within 40mm range of the CV.
I'd rather there be a minimum distance for those damn 5" proximity fuses (like theres a minimum 1.5k distance on our 88s). As it stands now torpedo runs are only good if theres no one manning the 5" guns (good luck with that :cry).
And yes as for auto-puffy, it does seem to be a tad uber accurate (especially when you are in a maneuvering dogfight), but doesn't seem to do much to formations (them's 5" fodder :lol). Maybe a touch off on the accuracy and a notch or two more lethality would be in order. :salute
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It would be nice if HTC would add the adjustable torpedo aiming sights on the TBM and other torpedo bombers that should have them. Someone posted the USN manuals on how to use it a while ago, and it'd be pretty awesome to have.
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It only take 2 US torps to sink a Cv or 3german/Japanese.
But as for our new AP bombs they don't do enough damage to justify their use when compared to other planes load outs and survivablity.
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From what i've read about the battles of Midway, Coral Sea, Marianas, Leyte Gulf. It seems that dive bombers and torpedo planes were killing the CV's. Not BUFFs from high altitude. Every time BUFFs tried to bomb ships they missed. So why don't we make the BUFFs really easy to kill with puffy ack, and the TBD's, SBD's, VAL's and BN5's harder to kill with the 5 inchers. It would be nice to be able to take off with torpedos and feal like i had a chance at hitting something and surviving.
The two times that I have had any success with a torp in this game, (only tried 4 or 5 times), was with JU-88's from the rear of the CV group. I released one set of torps on right side of CV, then adjusted to the left side and dropped the other 3 torps. Not sure if there is "game default" spread for torps, but did manage to hit CV on both occasions and RTB'd with all three aircraft...maybe it was just dumb luck!
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I think the damage model of the CV and other ships needs to be up dated
loose steering
certain amount of ord dropped on the deck makes the deck in op for "X' amount of time.
kill engines (like in tank)
certain amount of ord dropped on the deck makes the ship slow down for "X" amount of time.
If this is implemented then cv's should be nearly unsinkable
Oh and more ships / convoys maybe group sizes that reflect historical proportions
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Make non-AP/non-Torpedo damage like 10%-25% of what it currently is... would change things greatly.
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I think the damage model of the CV and other ships needs to be up dated
loose steering
certain amount of ord dropped on the deck makes the deck in op for "X' amount of time.
Agreed......
I would like the three deck lifts to have hanger properties.........
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i think the TBM is most survivable torp plane...Ive only dont it a couple of times but if you use the Training page on Torps you can almost always get away alive. with right lead you drop torp as soon as the destroyers start firing 40mm at you. at that point drop torp and get fly away.
(http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3897/torpguide.png)
Find an enemy CV in the MA with all the auto and random manned 5"ers, do three sorties against it in a TBM, and then under the same conditions three in a Ju-88. Let me know how the hunting goes.
In a one on one, individual comparison, even with only one torp the TBM is the best/better choice (and my personal favorite for torp operations) - however in the MA environment the Ju-88 isn't as tough, but still as standards go tough with current choices available (particularly with torp-bombers) durable, AND you get three to a formation, AND you get two torpedoes each. Results, results, results.
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Battle of Samar in which numerous USN planes made desperate attacks in groups and single attacks against the Japanese battleships and cruisers to cover the retreat of the slow jeep carriers (Taffy 1, Taffy 2 and Taffy 3). The battle is described in detail in the book "The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" and describes attacks by single TBMs dropping whatever they could on the Japanese ships, including one story of a TBM pilot firing his .38 caliber pistol as he flew over a Japanese cruiser.
ack-ack
Sounds about right, in comparison to the MAs.
For the purpose of torpedo bombing, I don't think the auto puffy ack is an issue. What I hate are the manned 5" puffies. What I hate most is that they can still blow you away when you are within 40mm range of the CV.
I'd rather there be a minimum distance for those damn 5" proximity fuses (like theres a minimum 1.5k distance on our 88s). As it stands now torpedo runs are only good if theres no one manning the 5" guns (good luck with that :cry).
And yes as for auto-puffy, it does seem to be a tad uber accurate (especially when you are in a maneuvering dogfight), but doesn't seem to do much to formations (them's 5" fodder :lol). Maybe a touch off on the accuracy and a notch or two more lethality would be in order. :salute
I like this idea, I personaly think the manned 40mms are very lethal especialy at close ranges (and further). And then there's plenty of manned 20mm mounts, auto 20mm/40mm, and probabley even some auto .50 cals in the mix. I do think it might be interesting to try a 1k altitude limit on manned puffy, much like the 3k on auto puffy.
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I love the SBD or the Stuka in a good dive bomb attack on a CV. The science though is getting there without getting jumped by fighters but if you do man its a rush when you kick in those dive brakes and hit that dive and release your bombs and watch the CV go BOOM!
BigKev
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this is not real war.......................... .........its a cartoon game :P
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Bombing enemy shipping with heavy bombers was not all that uncommon in WWII, but most of the level bombing against shipping was done at lower altitudes for the sake of accuracy. Oh, and most if not all of the level bombing against shipping was done to supply ships and not a naval fleet. Without looking at my grandfather's flight logs I bet 1/3 to half of his 28 missions were against Japanese supply shipping up and down the "slot".
In AH, we do not have any wind, nor do we have full time admirals commanding the fleets to put them in to evasive maneuvers once level bombers are seen. I agree %100 that it is far too easy to sink a ship via level bombing but the biggest factor in making the ships more resistance to level bombing is something HTC will not do: crosswinds. Throw in a 10-20mph cross wind and accuracy plummets.
As far as torps go, may I suggest the TA for repeated trips to a CV. Film the training missions. Also, remember that Japanese and German torps travel faster than US torps by about %20. Practice with Ju88's because they have 2 torps to do different angles and distances.