Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: RotBaron on January 16, 2013, 11:11:20 PM
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Sorry if this info is somewhere else, but my search did not find our newer version's map for city strats.
Does anyone have a map of the city strat where targets are identified? I've flown over friendly city strats and I've bombed city strats quite a bit, and only with somewhat limited success. There are bldgs with dark grey roofs and there are bldgs with tan roofs, and spread through the strat are a few smoke stacks here and there, and finally the rest and majority are just housing bldgs. I'd like to know which ones are the actual targets.
TIA,
:salute
Rot
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Everything that's not marked as "not a target" on map.
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/csmap_zpscb2bb49c.png)
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It would seem in that "bombable targets" area that there are some bldgs that aren't of value. I say that based off of using different ordinances, 1000lb'ers always seem to reward the most amount of city hits although per AH website it says only 250lbs/bldg is needed. When I drop with 250's I've not destroyed many city factories...
The old version maps were much more detailed.
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It would seem in that "bombable targets" area that there are some bldgs that aren't of value.
Not correct. All buildings in that area are functional and destroyable.
I say that based off of using different ordinances, 1000lb'ers always seem to reward the most amount of city hits although per AH website it says only 250lbs/bldg is needed.
That's a tad outdated, it's still for the old City, which had small buildings like the town did.
All factory buildings are rated 313lbs (= 1 250lbs bombs), while the City tiles take 844lbs to be destroyed. For example it takes a hit by a single drop of 250lbs bombs from a 3-plane formation to kill one City block.
You can always check the exact hardness number sin arena setup, even during flight.
When I drop with 250's I've not destroyed many city factories...
That's because the individual factory buildings are much more spread apart than the ones in towns (which have the same object hardness). You need bombs with bigger blast radius, preferably 1000lbs and above.
If you are attacking the City (center island), you have to keep in mind that the individual blocks are very large, and huge bombs are thus very inefficient, as there blast radius is too small. 250lbs bombs are the best 'fit here', even 100lbs bombs do work very well and are extremely efficient compared to the bomb weight. They do, however suck vs the factories as explained above.
The ideal loadout to attack the strats depends on what plane you are flying and what options it allows you to choose from.
In case of the B-29 (formation assumed)
80x100lbs (8k) - Very light and efficient loadout for attacking the city, allows you to climb faster to altitude. With perfect drop you can get 40 City blocks (=~47%), but 30 is more realistic in practice. Salvo 2 per city tile.
56x250lbs (14k) - Perfect City buster. Can get you up to 56 block (=~66%) if you don't waste any on the flak towers
12x1000lbs (12k) - Multi purpose loadout for attacking both City as well as factory targets, especially when all of them are at 100%. Fly down a City road right between the tiles and drop 5 1k bombs, at every 2nd road crossing. If done exactly, you will get between 10 to (practically) 14 destroyed blocks (=12-18%), increasing the town downtimes by 14-21 minutes. Then you still have 7 bombs left for the three key factories: AA, ammo, radar, which you can get down by about 20%
8x2k & 4x4K (16k) - Heavy anti-factory loadout. Total waste of effort when used vs City. 4k loadout gives you max effect vs 2 previously untouched factories (HC bombs with large damage radius), while the 2k loadout gives you greater flexibility against a higher number of factory targets, particularly when already damaged by other players
The old version maps were much more detailed.
But not necessary, as indeed everything in the bombable areas... is bombable ;)
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(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/MDKCityV1_zps38fdbe9f.jpg)
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Thank you Snailman, that helps a bunch.
My apologies for the sarcasm the other day; was rather annoyed and not at you.
:salute
Rot
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Snail... You're, imho, the best resource for players on these matters of strategical bombing in AH. I think you should start accumulating your (and more current) knowledge posted in all these various threads (often repeatedly) on something like a wiki page.
Also I had a question for you, any idea about how much damage a flak tower takes to destroy in the strats and are their downtimes effected by the city or AAA strat (or both)?
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I think you should start accumulating your (and more current) knowledge posted in all these various threads (often repeatedly) on something like a wiki page.
So many projects, so little focus... ;)
Also I had a question for you, any idea about how much damage a flak tower takes to destroy in the strats and are their downtimes effected by the city or AAA strat (or both)?
The flak towers are not destroyable, but the flak guns on them are. Their downtime is being determined by the AA factory, just like all AI AA guns everywhere. And it doesn't take much to destroy them - the flak tower guns are of the GNH type, meaning it takes 19lbs of damage to destroy one. The guns on the ground are GNG, the same type you will find in towns and on fields (6lbs to kill).
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Are there trains leaving the city?
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There are trains arriving at each factory every 10 minutes. Currently they don't have any function.
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Which means that we need to persuade the Bish to attack the trains. :devil
I've never made a strat run except as a gunner. My guess is that the city is the most important target if you can only attack one (fighters climbing up to get you). Or if you are by yourself and can only attack one target .... B17s .... limited fuel.
Thanks for all the info!
Tex78
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My guess is that the city is the most important target if you can only attack one (fighters climbing up to get you). Or if you are by yourself and can only attack one target .... B17s .... limited fuel.
Importance....
Now that depends on a few factors. Generally speaking, the most important targets in the strats complex are City, AA factory, ords factory, follwed by radar factory. The training facilities are so so, it's a nice target if the previously mentioned ones have been hit good already. The refinery is an utter waste of flight time and bombs, no matter what.
Between City, AA and ammo factory, it really depends on how much damage has already been done. While the relation damage done / downtime of field items is linear, the practical importance isn't rising in the same linear way.
It's a huge gain by increasing town downtimes from (basic) 30 minutes to 50 minutes by destroying 14 city tiles (16%). But getting town downtime from , say, 90 minutes up to 150 minutes (maximum) has not much practical relevance.
Currently players are not really utilizing the opportunities being created by such huge downtimes. Battle for a specific base rarely last that long, once the attackers have been repelled thoroughly they rarely come back. Another battle will claim their attention.
So for practical purposes it's often better to get City, AA, ammo factory down to 75% each (=60 minutes of object downtimes at fields) instead of getting just one of them down to 25%
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Tex, I hit strats regularly :devil
If you see me on and are interested in doing a run let me know. I usually hit city, ack and radar in the same sortie, but my bomber of choice for this is the Lancaster. B17s are fine however and more survivable to get to your target, I often find that resistance is late and I can get my drop done, however of course that depends who is online and if they feel like chasing me at 30K. It takes a long long time to get Lancs up there, but since Snailman has been flying Knight lately I haven't had to worry about him; the unquestioned most feared strat defender.
After awhile you get to know who you are likely to encounter from each side up there.
Speaking of Lancasters, Snailman, is the best ord choice the 14 1klb'rs for strats?
:salute
TIA,
Rot
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I like the 4000lb and 18 500lb set for the Lancs
The 4000lb is wasted on the city so use it for AA or Ord factory. with the 18 other bombs you can take down many city blocks though you may need two passes or use some on AA or Ord.
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Not correct. All buildings in that area are functional and destroyable.
That's a tad outdated, it's still for the old City, which had small buildings like the town did.
All factory buildings are rated 313lbs (= 1 250lbs bombs), while the City tiles take 844lbs to be destroyed. For example it takes a hit by a single drop of 250lbs bombs from a 3-plane formation to kill one City block.
You can always check the exact hardness number sin arena setup, even during flight.
That's because the individual factory buildings are much more spread apart than the ones in towns (which have the same object hardness). You need bombs with bigger blast radius, preferably 1000lbs and above.
If you are attacking the City (center island), you have to keep in mind that the individual blocks are very large, and huge bombs are thus very inefficient, as there blast radius is too small. 250lbs bombs are the best 'fit here', even 100lbs bombs do work very well and are extremely efficient compared to the bomb weight. They do, however suck vs the factories as explained above.
The ideal loadout to attack the strats depends on what plane you are flying and what options it allows you to choose from.
In case of the B-29 (formation assumed)
80x100lbs (8k) - Very light and efficient loadout for attacking the city, allows you to climb faster to altitude. With perfect drop you can get 40 City blocks (=~47%), but 30 is more realistic in practice. Salvo 2 per city tile.
56x250lbs (14k) - Perfect City buster. Can get you up to 56 block (=~66%) if you don't waste any on the flak towers
12x1000lbs (12k) - Multi purpose loadout for attacking both City as well as factory targets, especially when all of them are at 100%. Fly down a City road right between the tiles and drop 5 1k bombs, at every 2nd road crossing. If done exactly, you will get between 10 to (practically) 14 destroyed blocks (=12-18%), increasing the town downtimes by 14-21 minutes. Then you still have 7 bombs left for the three key factories: AA, ammo, radar, which you can get down by about 20%
8x2k & 4x4K (16k) - Heavy anti-factory loadout. Total waste of effort when used vs City. 4k loadout gives you max effect vs 2 previously untouched factories (HC bombs with large damage radius), while the 2k loadout gives you greater flexibility against a higher number of factory targets, particularly when already damaged by other players
But not necessary, as indeed everything in the bombable areas... is bombable ;)
Expanding on this post regarding 100 and 250lb bombs on city squares - what about the odd ball 50/60 and 100kg bombs when used on these?... would a box of three bombers dropping a single 100kg, or two 50/60kg bombs have the same effect as the 100x2 amd 250x1 or will they fall short?... (particlarly the 100kgx1 option, that seems a shame if it would come up that short.... i really dont get how the "313lbs [= 1 250lbs bombs]" bit works, but I know it is what it is).
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Expanding on this post regarding 100 and 250lb bombs on city squares - what about the odd ball 50/60 and 100kg bombs when used on these?... would a box of three bombers dropping a single 100kg, or two 50/60kg bombs have the same effect as the 100x2 amd 250x1 or will they fall short?... (particlarly the 100kgx1 option, that seems a shame if it would come up that short.... i really dont get how the "313lbs [= 1 250lbs bombs]" bit works, but I know it is what it is).
313lbs is the exact aboumt of damage a factory building takes to be destroyed, as can be seen in the 'object settings' in the arena. And this is also the exact amount of damage a 250lbs bomb does inflict.
This is because only the 1,000 lbs GP bomb has actually 1,000lbs damage rating. The smaller bombs are more effective compared to their weight (the more the smaller they are), while larger bombs are less effective (the less the bigger it is):
GP bombs
4000lbs - 3125lbs of damage
2000lbs - 1718lbs of damage
1000lbs - 1000lbs of damage
500lbs - 562lbs of damage
250lbs - 312lbs of damage
100lbs - 156lbs of damage.
As for your question on the 100kg bombs on the city square - They fall just short of it, one drop (3x100kg) is not enough for a city block (Which is a pity, would have given the Ki-67 some interesting strat capability)
100kg - ~275lbs of damage (have to retest it to confirm exact value). I haven't checked the 60kg yet, I would expect between 171 and 205lbs, probably the latter.
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Ahhh. thanks for the more detailed layout!
Now it's making sence, although it contradicts one of your earleir posts a bit. I interpeted your earlier recomendation, with a formation of bombers (so x3 to each drop), at being one 250lb per block (which I now understand as a waste/overkill of twice what is needed) or two 100lb bombers per block (again, overkill by roughly the same amount).
If I am, currently, not mistaken - the 250s a the "best fit" becuase if you fly straight down a road (bordering two city blocks) and drop one 250lb per block you can easily (with a safe margin for error) take out two blocks per drop, maybe even more if you're precise enough to stick the three bombs on every other intersection....
And yes, it is an absolute shame the 313 damage needed is just out of reach for a formation droping single salvos of 100kg bombs, the Ki-67 would in particular suddenly gain great effeciency over the city strat (also net good gains for "long" missions with thought and planning put into it, utilising a capable but not unchallenging bomber to accomplish the task with...
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As stated earlier, a city block takes 844lbs to go down - it's the factory buildings which take 313lbs
Thus three 250lbs bombs (drop of one in a formation) yielding a total damage of about 939lbs is the best fit for the city, and not 'overkill'
Three 100kg bombs do ~ 825lbs of damage.
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On occasion I have noe to the city strat & then dive bombed using F3 mode and a visual guess. Using this method in Lancasters I have destroyed bldg's in percentages that well exceed any I have achieved level bombing in the Lancs. This method has destroyed up to 40% (city strat) and often times more than 30%. This doesn't seem possible based off of the amount of bombs carried in the Lancs (14K's x 3,) the only thing that would seem to make sense here is that the low altitude and spread of the formation is hitting 3 blocks at a time, instead of one.
What are your thoughts Lusche?
Thanks,
Rot
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Of course diving vs horizontal bombing doesn't change the amunt of damage you can inflict. It's all about the damage capacity you are carrying and where you do place the bombs.
If you fly down one aisle of the City and drop right between two squares one by one, you should get 14x2 = 28 city tiles = 33% of the City. If you really have a good aim and drop exactly on the corner of 4 tiles, you could practically expect a maximum of ~42 block = ~49%, but that would require a great deal of luck as well.
Dang, am I really giving away all the 'secrets' here? :noid
;)
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Doh, typo! Too rushed yesterday, thanks for the correction Lusche.
I don't know if its a new strategy to put one bomb thats big enough in between two close proximity targets - but the math/statistics!!!!... thats where I/we need to pick your brain for information. :aok
Thanks again Lusche!
Edit - also I started my inquiries because, unlike the other strat factories when I set out with a single intended target, my results against the city have never been close to as satisfactory (the factories though, no problem, especially with a heavy)
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Of course diving vs horizontal bombing doesn't change the amunt of damage you can inflict. It's all about the damage capacity you are carrying and where you do place the bombs.
If you fly down one aisle of the City and drop right between two squares one by one, you should get 14x2 = 28 city tiles = 33% of the City. If you really have a good aim and drop exactly on the corner of 4 tiles, you could practically expect a maximum of ~42 block = ~49%, but that would require a great deal of luck as well.
Dang, am I really giving away all the 'secrets' here? :noid
;)
oh dont worry, these "secrets" you speak of are you're own. :aok