Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: tunnelrat on January 25, 2013, 02:11:01 PM
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Similar to the Storch - an aircraft that is unarmed or light defensive armament that has the ability to see enemy cons 10k+ away
Perhaps even have it to where cons that are 7.5k away register as "FGHTR" or "BMBR" or "FORM" (for formation) based on the aircraft's size.
Great candidates for this would be the Fw 189 Uhu, the Fw 200 Condor, or perhaps as a variant of the Ju 388 (please please please) or even an option for the Ar-234.
Britain wise, perhaps the de Havilland Mosquito PR.VIII could be done with the existing models with little extra work? (I have no idea)
Since Cadillac was done with a TBM, maybe simply a variant of the TBM with "Recon Equipment" as an option in lieu of other ordnance? Or give us a true F-5 version of the P-38!
And before the wishlist rapid response team wades in with "there weren't no damned AWACS" please read up on British Air Controlled Interception and/or Project Cadillac.
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Similar to the Storch - an aircraft that is unarmed or light defensive armament that has the ability to see enemy cons 10k+ away
Perhaps even have it to where cons that are 7.5k away register as "FGHTR" or "BMBR" or "FORM" (for formation) based on the aircraft's size.
Great candidates for this would be the Fw 189 Uhu, the Fw 200 Condor, or perhaps as a variant of the Ju 388 (please please please) or even an option for the Ar-234.
Britain wise, perhaps the de Havilland Mosquito PR.VIII could be done with the existing models with little extra work? (I have no idea)
Since Cadillac was done with a TBM, maybe simply a variant of the TBM with "Recon Equipment" as an option in lieu of other ordnance? Or give us a true F-5 version of the P-38!
And before the wishlist rapid response team wades in with "there weren't no damned AWACS" please read up on British Air Controlled Interception and/or Project Cadillac.
Never saw use in WW2 on an operational level other than testing.
ack-ack
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Really don't care about the specific wish one way or the other... but why do people ask constantly for more things to do that don't involve fighting? What would a typical evening spent in one of these aircraft look like? Why not up and shoot something or bomb something rather than flying around sightseeing?
:headscratch:
Wiley.
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would like to see the catalina installed at ports rather than the storch and maybe have some of these icon range benefits as suggested.
Taking off and landing on the water would be cool :airplane:.
The ability to mark the Map with an nme CV spotted Icon that falls off automatically after a few minutes of being out of range of it. Of course HTC would have to code it so people can't make false reports....
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would like to see the catalina installed at ports rather than the storch and maybe have some of these icon range benefits as suggested.
Taking off and landing on the water would be cool :airplane:.
The ability to mark the Map with an nme CV spotted Icon that falls off automatically after a few minutes of being out of range of it. Of course HTC would have to code it so people can't make false reports....
AWESOME! Map markings would be so nice, even if it were squad/mission only.
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would like to see the catalina installed at ports rather than the storch and maybe have some of these icon range benefits as suggested.
Taking off and landing on the water would be cool :airplane:.
The ability to mark the Map with an nme CV spotted Icon that falls off automatically after a few minutes of being out of range of it. Of course HTC would have to code it so people can't make false reports....
Maybe code it to where you can only make a report if within a certain range. This range would be close enough to where a player with even the crappiest graphics settings could clearly see it. Only then can you click on a "Report" button. To further prevent the annoying spamming of cv reports, set it to where there is a 5-10 minute time gap between each click of the report button. When you hit the report button, an icon will become visible to you and all players on your side. Icon's "life span" should be around 10 minutes. Maybe have it slowly fade until it vanishes to indicate how long ago the report was made? Or, coding it to where you can mouse over and a small pop up thingy appears next to your mouse indicating how much time has elapsed since it was made?
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:airplane: Guys, let us try to remain focused! Most of WW2 had no "radar", except the one Britain used for the defense of the Homeland. Just wonder what the game would be like with no "Dar", no "icons" and each player had to rely on his senses or eyesight,(would leave me out), just what the pilots did for the most part in WW2, except for the last 10 to 15 months of the war? Again, as I have said before, how many of us would be left playing this game if that was the way that it is. One of the changes that I would like to see is this:
No aircraft could shoot down a aircraft, if that aircraft was produced in the same country! Make it like it really was, German and Japanese aircraft against American aircraft, for example!
I would like to see the "icon" range increased to at least 8K!
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:airplane: Guys, let us try to remain focused! Most of WW2 had no "radar", except the one Britain used for the defense of the Homeland.
I think you might want to recheck that...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_in_World_War_II
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:airplane: Guys, let us try to remain focused! Most of WW2 had no "radar", except the one Britain used for the defense of the Homeland. Just wonder what the game would be like with no "Dar", no "icons" and each player had to rely on his senses or eyesight,(would leave me out), just what the pilots did for the most part in WW2, except for the last 10 to 15 months of the war? Again, as I have said before, how many of us would be left playing this game if that was the way that it is. One of the changes that I would like to see is this:
No aircraft could shoot down a aircraft, if that aircraft was produced in the same country! Make it like it really was, German and Japanese aircraft against American aircraft, for example!
I would like to see the "icon" range increased to at least 8K!
I'd suggest trying the AvA arena, but I'm not quite sure it'd fully meet all your requests. It does feature specific plane matchups rotated weekly and covers a huge variety of matchups, including a few "what-ifs."
However, the dar/icon setting might not be to your liking. They usually go with reduced icon range - at times , forcing that reliance on mk1 eyeballs. To compensate for a computer's inablity to display as much detal as an eye can absorb, they often bump up the dar/dot ranges. I do as well with reduced or no icons as with the MA standard of 6k.
There's very little structure - you'll find that in scenarios and special events - due to a general small population, but there are times when you see some pre-arranged missions. Poepl simply go where the numbers are.
I like the AvA; I spent quite a bit of my career there learning rides against their contemporaries and dealing with small skwads or wingman tactics. The Finns when the Finland map was up for example - some quality players there.
Give it a try... your mileage may vary.
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:airplane: Guys, let us try to remain focused! Most of WW2 had no "radar", except the one Britain used for the defense of the Homeland. Just wonder what the game would be like with no "Dar", no "icons" and each player had to rely on his senses or eyesight,(would leave me out), just what the pilots did for the most part in WW2, except for the last 10 to 15 months of the war? Again, as I have said before, how many of us would be left playing this game if that was the way that it is. One of the changes that I would like to see is this:
No aircraft could shoot down a aircraft, if that aircraft was produced in the same country! Make it like it really was, German and Japanese aircraft against American aircraft, for example!
I would like to see the "icon" range increased to at least 8K!
if you want to know what the game would be like then look at the ava. which brings up another thing, why do you ask a question of something you already got the answer to?
midway
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I think you might want to recheck that...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_in_World_War_II
:airplane: Your point is valid and I should have said "practical, effective radar"! Radar was developed in the 30's but was primitive at best. Britain used this radar system to defeat the German Air Force, during the "Battle of Britain", because Goring did not understand the importance of Radar and what it did. But, you still have to understand, because of the "curve" of the earth's surface, there was no radar coverage deep into the European theater, until after D day in 44 and the allies setup radar stations on the mainland and could then reach further into Germany. The U.S. Navy, by far, had the most effective radar for aircraft identification, but, again, it had limitations all the way into the 50's. Rain showers, clouds and other interference restricted the effectiveness of radar. Most radar systems had about a 65 to 70 mile effective range, so the warning period concerning incoming aircraft was limited. Most of the air (and naval) actions in World War II fought with radar at UHF and below. Early U.S. radar equipment operated at 200 MHz. The XAF and CXAM search radars were designed by the Naval Research Laboratory, and were the first operational radars in the US fleet, produced by RCA. These were followed by large scale production of other 200-MHz systems, the SA, SK and SR. Other systems at 400, 600, and 1200 MHz became available by the end of the war. Hope this info helps.
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The radar in-game is there to kinda-sorta substitute for the combination of ground radar and ground controlled interception which was used during the war. A moving map with integrated datalinked radar contacts like we have obviously wasn't available then. Realistically you'd just get a ground controller telling you "large formation heading north, vector 090, 30 miles, angels 10". That'd be cool, but also chaotic given the fairly random nature of the MA, where formed groups are rare and formations non-existent. You'd be getting all this information in your ear that would be unhelpful 90% of the time.
Same same, it'd be great to have no icons - I hate icons. But since we don't fly in formations, how can you tell friend from foe? And how can you tell which friendly you're talking to? In reality misidentification and fratricide was a big problem, but no-one wants that in the game.
Now what would be cool, for scenarios at least, would be a couple of buttons, one of which would give you the verbal vector to the closest friendly, and another to vector you to the closest enemy (if they were in range of a radar, of course.) Then dot/bar radar could be turned off, and you'd get a more historical experience.
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Earl, you're selling the German air defense radar far short of what you ought to. By the time the RAF and USAAF bomber offensive got into full swing the German air defense radar was far superior to what the British had been using in 1940. Japanese radar was poor, but it did exist. I am unfamiliar with the state of Soviet radar during WWII.
In addition to the ground radar, the US, UK, Germans and Japanese all had air intercept and surface searching radar for use in aircraft, though the ranges were limited. The RAF also made heavy use of ground mapping radar to improve accuracy fot bombing at night or through clouds.
That all said, there was nothing like the AWACS function in WWII as the OP requests.
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dont drone me dude.
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Also, the Germans did understand the importance of radar in 1940. They had more advanced radar than the British at that point (and in fact maintained this lead in ground based radar throughout the war, though the cavity magnetron gave the British the lead in airborne and portable radar). They were well aware of the vast antenna towers posted around the British coast (I've seen the ones at Dover, there's no hiding them) Their problem was they didn't understand how primitive the British system really was - how low the frequencies were, how simple the system. To find out British capabilities they sent Graf Zeppelin on a flight to probe the system before the war. The huge framework of the zeppelin worked as a vast antenna for the low-frequency British radar and picked it up astonishingly well. The problem was, the Brits were using their 50Hz power line frequency to generate their pulses (a simpler system you couldn't get), so the german equipment was full of this high-powered, 50Hz hum. They wrote that off as an artifact of the UK power grid and concluded the radar towers were for long range communication, not radar.
Ooopsy. They did later come to understand what they were dealing with, but by then it was too late.
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Also, the Germans did understand the importance of radar in 1940. They had more advanced radar than the British at that point (and in fact maintained this lead in ground based radar throughout the war, though the cavity magnetron gave the British the lead in airborne and portable radar). They were well aware of the vast antenna towers posted around the British coast (I've seen the ones at Dover, there's no hiding them) Their problem was they didn't understand how primitive the British system really was - how low the frequencies were, how simple the system. To find out British capabilities they sent Graf Zeppelin on a flight to probe the system before the war. The huge framework of the zeppelin worked as a vast antenna for the low-frequency British radar and picked it up astonishingly well. The problem was, the Brits were using their 50Hz power line frequency to generate their pulses (a simpler system you couldn't get), so the german equipment was full of this high-powered, 50Hz hum. They wrote that off as an artifact of the UK power grid and concluded the radar towers were for long range communication, not radar.
Ooopsy. They did later come to understand what they were dealing with, but by then it was too late.
And the Para's toddled off to Bruneval and purloined it in order to examine it. There is some conjecture about whether Jerry had a full understanding of what the British RADAR was capable of in terms of accuracy and range, evidenced by the fact that they made very little effort to destroy what were fairly large and obvious targets. In fact they believed the Chain Home system to be a method of assisting civilian pilots :old:
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Actually neither side had a full grasp of what the other was doing. The Bruneval raid was launched because there was this little bend in a track beside this little circle nobody could figure out. It was a 6 foot dish antenna, something undreamt of by the allies at that time, and an order of magnitude smaller than they thought was required for a tracking radar. Later in the war, as the British developed airborne countermeasures to a fine art, the Germans developed the first ever bistatic radar system - using the Chain Home transmitters. The Brits never knew it existed until after the war, but even even if they had, what were they going to do? Switch off their whole air defence system? Or jam it?
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Actually neither side had a full grasp of what the other was doing. The Bruneval raid was launched because there was this little bend in a track beside this little circle nobody could figure out. It was a 6 foot dish antenna, something undreamed of by the allies at that time, and an order of magnitude smaller than they thought was required for a tracking radar. Later in the war, as the British developed airborne countermeasures to a fine art, the Germans developed the first ever bistatic radar system - using the Chain Home transmitters. The Brits never knew it existed until after the war, but even even if they had, what were they going to do? Switch off their whole air defence system? Or jam it?
:airplane: This post has generated some lively debate and some good points were made. However, I kept waiting for someone to point out why I made the statement that for the most part, the radars of WW2 were not very effective! CHAFF, or WINDOWs, as the British refered to it, pretty much kept the Germans in the blind on fighter interceptions, especially at night. History has shown that the Lanc's of the Brit's was as helpless against the German fighters and therefore flew mostly at night. While the "Window" was somewhat effective in confusing the Germans at night, they, the Germans, soon learned to fly night fighters into the clouds of "window" and seek out the bombers in moon lite or from ground search radars. Even in 50's and 60's, as I flew all over the U.S. and other parts of the world, departure, approach and center radars were still having trouble with rain, snow and heavy cloud in picking out your image on radar for vectors or separation from other traffic. Even with the development of "transponders", both military IFF and civilian transponders, it took the development of "computers" to finally eliminate the interference with ground based radar signals. Below is a copy of info which can be found on Wikipedia concerning this matter.
Examination of the Würzburg radar equipment brought back to the UK during Operation Biting and subsequent reconnaissance revealed to the British that all German radars were operating in no more than three major frequency ranges, and thus were prone to jamming. "Bomber" Harris, Commander-in-Chief (C-in-C) of RAF Bomber Command, finally got approval to use Window as part of Operation Gomorrah, the fire raids against Hamburg.
The first aircrew trained to use Window were 76 squadron. Twenty-four crews were briefed on how to drop the bundles of aluminised-paper strips (treated-paper was used to minimise the weight and maximise the time that the strips would remain in the air, prolonging the effect), one every minute through the flare chute, using a stopwatch to time them. The results were spectacular. The radar guided master searchlights wandered aimlessly across the sky. The AA guns fired randomly or not at all and the night fighters, their radar displays swamped with false echoes, utterly failed to find the bomber stream. A vast area of Hamburg was devastated with the loss of only 12 bombers. Squadrons quickly had special chutes fitted to their bombers to make the deployment even easier. Seeing this as a development that made it safer to go on ops, many crews got in as many trips as they could before the Germans found a countermeasure.
When the Mosquito entered production in 1941, it was one of the fastest operational aircraft in the world. Entering widespread service in 1942, the Mosquito first operated as a high-speed, high-altitude photo-reconnaissance aircraft, and continued to operate in this role throughout the war. From mid-1942 to mid-1943 Mosquito bombers were used in high-speed, medium- or low-altitude missions, attacking factories, railways and other pinpoint targets within Germany and German-occupied Europe. From late 1943, Mosquito bomber units were formed into the Light Night Strike Force and used as pathfinders for RAF Bomber Command's heavy-bomber raids, using "window" to mask the approaching bombers. They were also used as "nuisance" bombers, often dropping 4,000 lb (1,812 kg) "Cookies", in high-altitude, high-speed raids that German night fighters were almost powerless to intercept.
Even during the "Falklands" war, chaff was used extensively.British warships in the Falklands War (1982) made heavy use of chaff.
During the war, British Sea Harrier aircraft lacked their conventional chaff-dispensing mechanism. Therefore Royal Navy engineers designed an impromptu delivery-system of welding rods, split pins and string, which allowed six packets of chaff to be stored in the airbrake well and be deployed in flight. It was often referred to as the "Heath Robinson chaff modification", due to its complexity.
Sorry about the long winded post, but thought it important.
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cough... airborne radar, cough...
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:airplane: One of the changes that I would like to see is this:
No aircraft could shoot down a aircraft, if that aircraft was produced in the same country! Make it like it really was, German and Japanese aircraft against American aircraft, for example!
I would like to see the "icon" range increased to at least 8K! Yeah, even more reason for people to run away earlier!
Talk about increasing ganging: MINE! MINE! MINE!
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/fighteraxisvsallies_zpsbe6b2f53.jpg)
3/4 of the enemy would be flying around together unable to fight other than trying to get one another to auger. If you fly axis aircraft, you get to face more allied planes than vice versa, so maybe give that a try instead of making others change their aircraft of choice. AVA has this set up already. Special events through out the week and year have this set up as well. It's fun, but not practical in the MA. Give it a try. As for no Icons, turn yours off and fly a sortie or two and check it out. Personally I like the shortened icons, but not for the MA. The MA is about game play, mixing it up, fighting, not realism.
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Icons are a necessary evil, as it's impossible to otherwise identify who you're talking to on VOX, or who is friend or foe.
For scenarios, icons could be dispensed with if both sides had sufficient air-discipline to operate in proper formations. Alas, that's unlikely to happen.