Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Randy1 on January 31, 2013, 06:28:08 AM
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Is there a pounds or rockets to destroy chart like the ones for structures and ships for tanks and other vehicles?
I was wondering how many American rockets it takes to say kill a Panzer as an example. What about strafing with 50 cal and or cannon, any effect on ground vehicles?
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Pretty much a good direct bomb hit will do in any armored vehicle. That said, for rocket attacks and strafing with cannons / MGs - the kill depends on the vehicle, how much armor it has, and where you hit it. You can find data on the front / side / back / top armor thickness on pretty much any armored vehicle in this game - that will give you a decent idea on where to aim. In my experience, strafing with MGs only is good for very thin skinned vehicles like M3s. Cannons work reasonably well on LVTs, on thin-skinned armored vehicles like the M8. Aircraft cannons vs a real tank is where it gets tricky - the results depend very much on the exact type of cannon, type of tank, and where you hit it. You can bang on the front armor of a Tiger all day with your 20mms and get nothing, but hit the top of an M18, or maybe the back of a Panzer IV and you can definitely get them disabled.
Rockets are another matter - the only real AP rockets I see work on a consistent basis are the ones on the 190F8 - these are deadly but it take a lot of practice to get hits. The American / British rockets are HE - they do wonderful work on buildings and hangers, but don't work as well against tanks. I'm not saying you can't get a tank kill with an american rocket, but there are a lot easier ways to do it.
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What about strafing with 50 cal and or cannon, any effect on ground vehicles?
Depends on both gun and vehicle.
Open topped and light vehicles can be killed/disabled easily with any kind of gun. The M18 falls into this category with it's open turret and light armor, while the M8 is actually a bit more tough due to it's closed top. Wirbelwind and Ostwind are sitting on a tank chassis, so you gotta hit the turret from above.
Fully armored tanks are a different matter. Unless you are carrying a tank busting gun, you best concentrate your fire on the tracks on one side to stop it. Though that can take quite some ammunition and you are vulnerable to his main gun due to the shallow approach.
While shooting directly from the top into the engine compartment with 20mm's is said to have an occasionally effect on tanks, it's quite rare to happen and mostly a waste of ammo. If you want to kill a tank, don't up an ordinary fighter for strafing, use bombs, rockets or one of the tank killers:
Il-2
Hurricane "D
Ju 87
Those three are dedicated tank killers with specialized guns/ammunition for the job. Each of them can kill any tank on the battlefield, though the Il-2 (with the 37mm option) is definitely the most effective at it.
B-25H
Me-410 (50mm)
Both are no tank killers in the narrow sense of the word and only carry HE for their guns, but do still work. The B-25H actually quite well if kicking the tank's butt. In Me 410 you'd have to attack with more precision and get troubles with heavier armored tanks (like T-34)
Yak-9t
While carrying the same gun as the Il-2, the loadout is HE instead of AP with a resulting significant drop in performance. Some guys have occasionally success on lighter armored tanks by shooting the engine compartment from straight above, but overall the results are meagre and I would strongly recommend taking up a genuine tank buster if killing tanks is your intention and priority.
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The American / British rockets are HE - they do wonderful work on buildings and hangers, but don't work as well against tanks. I'm not saying you can't get a tank kill with an american rocket, but there are a lot easier ways to do it.
Salvo 2 at the right approach angle and heading against any tank in the game except maybe the Tigers and you'll get a clean one pass kill. The T-34's are also difficult and require an absolutely perfect run.
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Bombs are straight forward: the bigger the bomb the bigger the boom and larger the splash area. The lighter the armor on the gv the easier it goes boom. If the gv has on open top it is easily damaged.
There are a few things to remember with rockets:
First, there are different kinds of rockets. In AH, we have HE, SAP, and AP/HEAT. In terms of air to ground rockets the Soviet RS and the US 5in and 4.5 rockets are HE, you need to hit a weak armored area on a tank to have much effect. The British have the 3in/60 Pdr rockets and they are SAP/GP (semi-armor piercing or general purposes), these do the most HE damage for air to ground rockets in AH and they work better on gv's than the straight up HE rockets. The Germans have the only designated anti-armor rocket in AH, the Pb1 from the 190F-8. If you score a hit you get the kill, I've not ever seen a ricochet or one be absorbed, that includes vs a King Tiger. I've seen everything else bound off typical tank armor.
The second thing to remember is that rockets for straight off their launching point, meaning they do not follow the gun sight in any manner. When you line up on a tank with your aircraft, take in to consideration which rocket is firing and use your gun sight and aim wide, aim dead on and you will miss wide. The easiest rockets in AH to learn with are the 4.5in rockets from the P38G model. Why? The rocket tubes are mounted right under the pilot and the gun sight can be used almost perfectly. Otherwise, everything else has wing mounted rockets and the pilot much take that in to consideration when aiming. The other thing that must be taken in to consideration is the firing order of the rockets. I've tested every plane in AH and *know* the firing order. If you're lined up on a tank's side aiming right by 1/2 length in order to hit with a left wing rocket, there is no sense in firing 2 rockets because you KNOW the right rocket will miss. This is of course you compensate and adjust your flight path after firing your left wing rocket.
FWIW, he is some info on the air to ground rockets:
DMG vs OBJ (tied closely but not exact to dmg to vehicles, remember that OBJ do not have armor and tanks do. ;) )
British 3in/60 Pdr: 187 lbs
US 5in HVAR: 156 lbs
US 4.5in : 120 lbs
Soviet: RS 132: 120 lbs
Soviet: RS 82: 93 lbs (Weakest in game but still good vs light armored gv's. use them from the I-16 with great effect!)
German: Pb1: 93 lbs (only designated AP/HEAT rocket in AH)
Note worthy firing order:
1>190F-8: 2 left/2 right and so on
2>**ALL** US aircraft (P38G, P51B, P47D-25, etc) with the 4.5 in rockets (in the tubes) fire the entire left group first then switch to the right group (3 left/3 right).
3> *ALL* other aircraft in AH fire 1 left, 1 right, and so on.
I suggest you practice off line using the tanks on the field. Remember, rockets do have splash damage and can damage your aircraft if fired too close to the target. I suggest coming in at a 45° or shallower dive at high speed and firing once then watch and see where you impact. Rockets do have a trajectory, but far better than a bomb and in most cases unless you've fired from a long ways out the trajectory is no worse than a 20mm.
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Bombing GVs is so yesterday.
Repeat after me:
Jay You Eighty Seven Gee Too
The new Aces High version of the A10 warthog.
Nothing is safe from it.... as midway/who found out the hard way yesterday, it will even peel open the top of a Tiger II like a cheap soup can.
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Bombing GVs is so yesterday.
Repeat after me:
Jay You Eighty Seven Gee Too
The new Aces High version of the A10 warthog.
Nothing is safe from it.... as midway/who found out the hard way yesterday, it will even peel open the top of a Tiger II like a cheap soup can.
You say that, but the Il-2 remains dominant and the best choice for can opening with guns.
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You say that, but the Il-2 remains dominant and the best choice for can opening with guns.
Oh, I have no doubt that you're correct, the IL will be more widely used due to the greater ammo load, most people aren't going to take the time to line up their shots and not waste ammo.... But the lethality of that German 37mm is remarkable. Take your time and learn that JU87 and you won't want to fly the IL again.
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But the lethality of that German 37mm is remarkable. Take your time and learn that JU87 and you won't want to fly the IL again.
Even if you have learned the Ju-87, there are many reasons why the Il-2 is still the superior platform in Aces High. No matter how good you are, if pure efficiency is your main concern over style, the Il-2 is still your plane.
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Even if you have learned the Ju-87, there are many reasons why the Il-2 is still the superior platform in Aces High. No matter how good you are, if pure efficiency is your main concern over style, the Il-2 is still your plane.
Eh, I guess it just comes down to personal preference, but I prefer the JU over the IL any day of the week. Sure the IL is armored and has more ammo, but the visibility stinks. I feel like if I get bounced by fighters in the JU, at least I have a fighting chance... I always lose sight of the in the IL and by the time I figure out where they went... Too late.
And as far as the gun goes, i've never landed as many kills in an IL in one sortie as I have in the Stuka.
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Eh, I guess it just comes down to personal preference,
That's why I prefer the HurriD over the Il-2, even though the IL would be the 'smarter' choice most of the time, especially when there are AA and light vehicles around.
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I take up the Ju87G-2 on a regular basis, I like the challenge of the slower than a 7 year itch plane (patience is virtue), and the *NEED* for accuracy and planning. Plus, there is a certain amount of satisfaction in landing kills in a Ju87G-2 vs the easy mode IL-2. The IL-2 is a flying take, pull the trigger and let loose the 37mm dogs of war! With the German 37mm, the shots need to be made with more calculation since the rate of fire is much slower and the ammo is about 1/4th the amount in the IL-2.
One thing that is not mentioned very often is the lack of accuracy in the IL-2. If people were to stop and actually measure how accurate their shots are in the IL-2, I think they'd be surprised at how much more accurate the Hurricane IID and the Stuka G-2 are. But, the IL-2 offers the ability of massed firepower with lots of ammo, so who needs to aim? ;)
FWIW, I think the AP ability of the Stuka G-2 and Hurri IID are no less than the IL-2.
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I take up the Ju87G-2 on a regular basis, I like the challenge of the slower than a 7 year itch plane (patience is virtue), and the *NEED* for accuracy and planning. Plus, there is a certain amount of satisfaction in landing kills in a Ju87G-2 vs the easy mode IL-2. The IL-2 is a flying take, pull the trigger and let loose the 37mm dogs of war! With the German 37mm, the shots need to be made with more calculation since the rate of fire is much slower and the ammo is about 1/4th the amount in the IL-2.
One thing that is not mentioned very often is the lack of accuracy in the IL-2. If people were to stop and actually measure how accurate their shots are in the IL-2, I think they'd be surprised at how much more accurate the Hurricane IID and the Stuka G-2 are. But, the IL-2 offers the ability of massed firepower with lots of ammo, so who needs to aim? ;)
FWIW, I think the AP ability of the Stuka G-2 and Hurri IID are no less than the IL-2.
il2 is accurate as hell. i normally would kill a gv with just a few shells. since I got rid of my x52 my accuracy went down the drain as the ch fighterstick keeps losing calibration so I have a high dampening on.
I never got the hang of the hurricane as it wasnt as stable as the il2 during slow turns as for the stuka, well if I need to up an il2 that means I need it right away not 20 minutes later :).
midway
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When I got into the Hurricane IID, it had a distinct advantage over the Il-2: It was the only plane being able to kill a Tiger I with guns only. The Il-2 only had the 23mm option and there was no B-25H or Ju-87G in game. At that time, a Tiger rolling to an airfield without ords really meant some trouble, causing much ado on country channel.
:old:
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Is there a pounds or rockets to destroy chart like the ones for structures and ships for tanks and other vehicles?
I was wondering how many American rockets it takes to say kill a Panzer as an example. What about strafing with 50 cal and or cannon, any effect on ground vehicles?
For structures and ships see: http://www.hitechcreations.com/Help-Section/Flight-Sim-Information/Aces-High-Help-Gameplay.html#ss
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That is a ton of good information. Even rocket firing order which was something I had not even considered. Sounds like rockets are a good choice to carry up for GV's as a general do all but take bombs as well to knock out the heavy tanks.
I had wild guessed an American rocket like those used on the P38L was closer to 60# equidistant based on it takes four rockets to knock out a radar. Or at least it takes four for me to knock it out.
Is 500 pound'ers the preferred size for heavy tanks or the 1000 pounder's?
I did try the Hurricane tank buster but at the time I did not know that was its primary duty. I ran into some low bombers. It worked on them really well. Next time out, i will give it and the IL2 a try on tanks.
I really appreciate y'all sharing so much information that I know came with a lot of trail and error on your part as well as a great deal of practical, AH experience.
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Giant post, full of exceptional tips.
Thank you for that. I've struggled with rockets vs. AFVs for a decade now. I shall practice offset aiming this evening.
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I know today i was in a g14 with thr gondolas. Seen a panzer intown from a 90 degree angle i was able to kill it. Now i dont know if he recently took damage but i did not have enough room to pull out of it. Just saying
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That is a ton of good information. Even rocket firing order which was something I had not even considered. Sounds like rockets are a good choice to carry up for GV's as a general do all but take bombs as well to knock out the heavy tanks.
I had wild guessed an American rocket like those used on the P38L was closer to 60# equidistant based on it takes four rockets to knock out a radar. Or at least it takes four for me to knock it out.
Is 500 pound'ers the preferred size for heavy tanks or the 1000 pounder's?
I did try the Hurricane tank buster but at the time I did not know that was its primary duty. I ran into some low bombers. It worked on them really well. Next time out, i will give it and the IL2 a try on tanks.
I really appreciate y'all sharing so much information that I know came with a lot of trail and error on your part as well as a great deal of practical, AH experience.
Keep in mind that the damage done to an OBJ (ord bunker, radar tower, town building, fuel tank, barracks, factory building, etc) does NOT equate directly in to the ability to destroy or damage a gv. They register damage two very different ways. Most of your common OBJ have a hardness setting of 312 lbs, meaning it takes 312 lbs of damage to destroy. The 5in HVAR rockets do 156 lbs of damage, so TWO of them will destroy an OBJ with the hardness setting of 312 lbs.
In terms of "which bomb is best", it is real simple: the bigger the bomb the easier it blows up tanks. I usually take 500 lb bomb vs gv's. Though, sometimes I will take the 250 lb bombs depending on which plane I'm hunting for gv's in. If you know you have light skinned gv's in bound, done be afraid to use the small bombs (F4F, La's, etc), they work very well too. :D
With the Hurricane IID, the StukaG-2, and the IL-2, keep your convergence close as in 250 to 300 and only fire a short 1-3 burst with the Hurri IID or Stuka G-2, and 5-10 shot burst with the Il-2. Angle of impact is everything so if you're trying to defeat the top armor you need a sharper dive. If you're going for the side or rear then a more shallow dive is better.
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SmokinLoon, good information. I had a chance to try the Hurricane against tanks on the canyon map. Got an assist on a Panzer. A Mustang and a 190 jumped me ending my run. I did get the 190 first though. The Hurricane at the end of the box canyon was perfect. Next opportunity I will try the IL.
I tried bombing tanks with the P38. I need to practice. I find it hard to see the tank icon, line up and still have enough altitude left for the bomb to arm. I think it is just getting an eye for the drop.
Thanks for all the replies for sure.
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Oh, I have no doubt that you're correct, the IL will be more widely used due to the greater ammo load, most people aren't going to take the time to line up their shots and not waste ammo.... But the lethality of that German 37mm is remarkable. Take your time and learn that JU87 and you won't want to fly the IL again.
used to be TONS of IL2's in the air killing gv's, most everything else, and NOone used F3 view (because they all told us so) Yet, when F3 for IL2 was disabled, it's usage went through the floor.......hmm.
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Yet, when F3 for IL2 was disabled, it's usage went through the floor.......hmm.
Only because GHI left the Il-2 as his signature move didn't work anymore :D
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I find it hard to see the tank icon, line up and still have enough altitude left for the bomb to arm. I think it is just getting an eye for the drop.
After aquiring the icon, climb up out of icon range while still having an eye on your target. That way you will have more alt for your dive.
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Gotta agree. Fly/shoot the IL2 as you would the Ju-87 and dont spray. This isnt to necessarily save ammo but to place shots exactly where you want them and to do so from as close to the tank as you can manage. Two or four hits from 200 to 250 out are far more effective then spraying from 400 out. Come in as vertical as you can and place your shots carefully. The IL2 is more then accurate enough if you shoot from in close. I have my convergence set to either 250 or 300 and volley shoot as I would a Hurri-D to the engine top and turret top. The P-4s you can zip the sides, that is if you want to risk the tanks main gun.
Even if you have learned the Ju-87, there are many reasons why the Il-2 is still the superior platform in Aces High. No matter how good you are, if pure efficiency is your main concern over style, the Il-2 is still your plane.