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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: mthrockmor on February 02, 2013, 11:25:48 AM

Title: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: mthrockmor on February 02, 2013, 11:25:48 AM
Iran is incredible at creating these press releases. How many of them actually end up being produced. When I saw the pictures I was pretty skeptical. The video shows this plane actually flies. Wow.

I would be interested in others critique of the design and possible weapons loadout, etc. I do think we much of the technology coming along we will see more micro-fighters being designed, back to the days of quality being build around quantity. Gone are the days we can dump $500 million into the F-22. Ten years from, on top of large numbers of high-end UAVs I see nations procuding larger numbers, of high quality, lower tech fighters like this.

Thoughts?

http://rt.com/news/iran-indigenous-fighter-qaher-296/
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: ToeTag on February 02, 2013, 01:18:46 PM
Looks like a plywood or foam construction with a composite overlay...and looks like it was built in a garage.  There isn't one straight line on that plane.  Look under the starboard wing at the rippling and the surface of the skin when there is a bright light on it.  This thing is rough.  I also doubt that it will be very fast as the airfoil on the rear wing is really thick.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Masherbrum on February 02, 2013, 01:32:10 PM
The flying version is radio controlled.    The Canopy is horrible, as are the massive issues on the fuselage.   
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: skorpx1 on February 02, 2013, 01:35:09 PM
So you're telling me that Iran's "Newest fighter" is actually capable of getting off the ground and fighting?

Pfft. Yeah right. That'll happen the day hell freezes over.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: eagl on February 02, 2013, 01:38:49 PM
Google "cargo cult"...  That's what this is, a cargo cult effort to imitate something they do not understand. 

My guess is that with all those angles, especially at the exhaust, it probably has a GREATER radar cross section than a conventionally designed aircraft.  Without a true understanding of radar and low observable theory, mimicing a real stealth aircraft will probably have the same effect as hanging radar reflectors on the aircraft.

That said, if you build enough of anything you can make a pretty effective swarm.  A couple thousand of those with unguided bombs and outdated short range air to air missiles would likely be a credible threat to a carrier task force.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Shifty on February 02, 2013, 02:21:14 PM
What is Ringo Starr doing in the bottom photo?
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Gixer on February 02, 2013, 04:09:46 PM
Looks like a B Grade Movie Prop to me. Who do they think they are kidding with those photos?


<S>...-Gixer
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Gixer on February 02, 2013, 04:40:32 PM
Just hilarious look at the size of the plane compared to the pilot.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/davest/Q-313-5_zps5872e508.jpg)

And the H500 I use to fly has more cockpit controls, is it even wired?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/davest/Q-313-cockpit_zps4e07dc76.jpg)

 :rofl


<S>...-Gixer
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Delirium on February 02, 2013, 04:57:12 PM
Look to the right of the stick, under the panel; it looks wide open and doesn't make sense to me, particularly if the legs could get trapped outside the yaw control zone.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Tank-Ace on February 02, 2013, 05:04:54 PM
Chest thumping and likely nothing more. Iran simply lacks the industry and technology to build an entirely domestic stealth fighter.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: skorpx1 on February 02, 2013, 05:10:19 PM
Just hilarious look at the size of the plane compared to the pilot.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/davest/Q-313-5_zps5872e508.jpg)

And the H500 I use to fly has more cockpit controls, is it even wired?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/davest/Q-313-cockpit_zps4e07dc76.jpg)

 :rofl


<S>...-Gixer

Just look at the canopy on the plane. Do they plan on flying with distorted views and bad visibility?


Not to mention the plane itself. It looks like I could send my fist right through it if I tried.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Gh0stFT on February 02, 2013, 05:32:49 PM
LOL !  :rofl

This looks like a home build Ultralight, 1:2 F-22,
the canopy is plastic for sure  :D
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Vulcan on February 02, 2013, 05:44:48 PM
Looks like a plywood or foam construction with a composite overlay...and looks like it was built in a garage.

But it will be stealthy :D

Also, no HUD, no room for a radar in the nose?
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: HL117 on February 02, 2013, 05:52:09 PM
I have seen better SIM PITS from You All   :D


 :salute
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on February 02, 2013, 06:24:24 PM
What was said about underestimating your enemy? :D
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: uptown on February 02, 2013, 06:51:11 PM
oh my  :O i reckon the west better straighten up or else  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: B4Buster on February 02, 2013, 07:06:32 PM
 :rofl
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: LCADolby on February 02, 2013, 07:24:27 PM
I think I might Email that Amadinnerjacket and see if I can get one of those for a sim-pit.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 02, 2013, 09:17:50 PM
I bet the pilot is happy that it's probably got a Russian designed ejection seat.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Delirium on February 02, 2013, 11:02:09 PM
I can see the next movie now!


"The plane you can't see out of!"

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/davest/Q-313-5_zps5872e508.jpg)

"The Pilot! Iran's newest astronaut!"

(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff14/DeliriumP38/maverick_zpsc5d433d8.jpg)

"In the new hit movie..."


TOP NONE!






"Talk to me Goose..."
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: guncrasher on February 02, 2013, 11:11:45 PM
Just hilarious look at the size of the plane compared to the pilot.




<S>...-Gixer

gixer look at the last picture on the link provided in the op.  the picture you posted is from a different angle so the pilot looks a bigger.



midway
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: IrishOne on February 03, 2013, 12:51:55 AM
LOL looks like a complete POS to me
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: flight17 on February 03, 2013, 01:12:50 AM
I can see the next movie now!
(http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff14/DeliriumP38/maverick_zpsc5d433d8.jpg)

"In the new hit movie..."


TOP NONE!






"Talk to me Gander..."
fixed
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: HPriller on February 03, 2013, 01:21:35 AM
it definitely looks to small to house all the equipment needed to be competitive, certainly not enough room in that little thing for a proper radar or engines.  As stated before I'd chalk it up to 3rd world muscle flexxing.  Next thing you know, Kim Jong Un will be buying up some of these for his little backwater nation to go with his rocket/sattellite gig.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on February 03, 2013, 06:04:36 AM
it definitely looks to small to house all the equipment needed to be competitive, certainly not enough room in that little thing for a proper radar or engines.  As stated before I'd chalk it up to 3rd world muscle flexxing.  Next thing you know, Kim Jong Un will be buying up some of these for his little backwater nation to go with his rocket/sattellite gig.

Maybe they're pure kamikaze. You don't need fancy stuff for that - just a 20 cent amulet and a bunch of promises of virgins.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: zack1234 on February 03, 2013, 06:09:49 AM
Your all just jealous :rofl
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: icepac on February 03, 2013, 08:24:09 AM
It will never be detected by radar in flight.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: pervert on February 03, 2013, 08:32:45 AM
stealth is overrated  :old:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: bozon on February 03, 2013, 09:52:19 AM
This plane, combined with the new Iranian space technology will allow them to build a Tie-fighter years before the west!
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: SoonerMP on February 03, 2013, 10:07:55 AM
I give it props for having a sweet dash mounted CD player, nothing is better than going into combat listening to some great Haji tunes... But in the end, I do believe I have created greater technological achievements in my toilet.   :aok
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: B4Buster on February 03, 2013, 10:48:34 AM
I'd feel more confident flying into battle in a Cessna 172 than in that thing.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Waldo on February 03, 2013, 12:02:25 PM
  :lol the canopy. The plane in the video sounds exactly like an R/C turbine model.

 How about a homebuilt with a better canopy that actually flies  :aok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVMSgwa46S8
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Rich46yo on February 04, 2013, 09:12:17 AM
Its easy to make fun of this Iranian airplane, and maybe it deserves it. But the fact is its not a good time to be cutting the US Military, or that of any of our Allies. There is a clear cut danger of high tech export and development to 2nd tier countries we really cant just ignore. In my day we were capable of fighting two major wars and a smaller regional conflict. For instance a major war in Europe, one on the Korean peninsula or the Mid East, and a smaller Bush war like in Africa. In 2013 we would be stretched to fight two wars of any size. A war with Iran would be problematic due to the geography, the needs of basing in Host countries, the presence of the oil routes, and the Limits placed on a Blue Water Navy. Theres no doubt they'd also attack Israel to split their enemies.

The Iranians know this and are putting their money into systems that would cause us the most problems. Their IRBMs and ASMs alone would be a major head ache the last thing we need is their development/purchasing of Stealth technology. Most of all in light of their collaboration with NK. Its just a bad time to be cutting Military Budgets. I'd rather spend $$ to prevent war then have to pay for not doing so after.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: cpxxx on February 04, 2013, 09:24:40 AM
Iran is fairly sophisticated technologically and may indeed have the ability to design something like that. However that's clearly either a fake or mock up and the flying sequence is most likely a model. Otherwise why not show a sequence of it landing and the 'hero pilot' giving a thumbs up?

They must be particularly naive to think something so obviously fake is going to fool anyone? The sheer complexity of designing and building a modern fighter is beyond the resources of most countries even those who aren't under sanctions. Iran may be quite advanced by the standards of the region but this is just ridiculous.  

I find it rather silly and childish propaganda in fact. If I was Iranian I would be seriously embarrassed by this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Delirium on February 04, 2013, 10:21:07 AM
In my day we were capable of fighting two major wars and a smaller regional conflict.

In your day we did most of the manufacturing of items on home soil. Long gone is your day, unfortunately. The most we can hope for now is a smaller, more capable force.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: zack1234 on February 04, 2013, 11:05:58 AM
The fact that everyone is writing about gives the Iranians legitimacy :rofl

Indifference is their biggest enemy :)
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: matt on February 04, 2013, 11:17:55 AM
Just look at the canopy on the plane. Do they plan on flying with distorted views and bad visibility?


Not to mention the plane itself. It looks like I could send my fist right through it if I tried.
just noticed the view through the canopy wow  :aok
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Rob52240 on February 04, 2013, 11:41:41 AM
So the country that has the 87th highest rate of literacy in the world has built a fighter plane.

I'm shaking in my boots at the thought of it.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Rich46yo on February 04, 2013, 12:13:15 PM
No, I think not too. However oil money can buy you an awful lot. Also, as well, Iran prior to the revolution had a very advanced military and Technology base for the region. Actually the best in the region. These are not Arabs ; Their roots are Asian, and they shouldnt be underestimated. They can cause enough trouble without stealth, which is over 30 year old tech by now. Eventually they will have such weaponry, as will others. If China ever is able to build an effective stealth airframe then Iran will eventually have it too.

I'd say 50% of their boasts are nonsense but its the 50% thats real that worries me. In the future such oil rich nations will only grow in military capabilities. Luckily for us Iran has a habit of making even more enemies then friends.


So the country that has the 87th highest rate of literacy in the world has built a fighter plane.

I'm shaking in my boots at the thought of it.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Tank-Ace on February 04, 2013, 09:12:42 PM
The thing is that the 50% they have down is likely just the basic stuff. Oh look, they can get an Iranian-built airframe flying. Its the other 50% of the aircraft that turns it from just a high-speed single-seater into threat to something like an F-16, yet alone an F-22.

Consider, if they're having that much trouble building their own aircraft, do you really think they'll be able to make their own missles with effective guidance systems? What about useable ECCM's? AWAC's? JDAM's? Hows their night-flying equipment?

We've been flying at 1000+mph since, what, late 1950's? F-22 went into service in 2005, right? JDAM's came around in 2000? It took us around 50 years to go from 1000+mph fighters to where we are now, and thats without sanctions in place.


Iran poses no credible threat in the air for the forseable future.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: kilo2 on February 04, 2013, 09:47:10 PM
It always looks like they have these new aircraft / press releases in a crappy gym. Its like a YMCA.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: stealth on February 04, 2013, 10:15:06 PM
stealth is overrated  :old:
Woah you did not just go there bud.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 04, 2013, 10:30:21 PM
I wonder if Iran has enough midgets to fly in that plane, a full grown man won't fit with the canopy closed.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Puma44 on February 04, 2013, 10:52:23 PM
It's more like one of these......

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/7c4cd30592acfb837f32ccf6bab487a6_zps509ed828.jpg)

......and about as technologically advanced.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: cpxxx on February 05, 2013, 06:32:11 AM
Googling a bit on the subject and apparently they admit it's a mock up and the flying version is a model. Not that you'll find that in any English language version.

It's a long way from any possibility of production. Modern military aircraft are not just about airframes anyway. It's all about the systems, armament and all those millions of details that bog down new fighter aircraft for years.

Pure posturing and propaganda.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Saxman on February 05, 2013, 07:16:52 AM
It looks like they licensed that design from Hasbro.

In fact I used to have a G.I. Joe toy back in the late-80s that looked EXACTLY like that. About the same size, too.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Karnak on February 05, 2013, 10:28:10 AM
It has to be for domestic consumption by relatively uneducated people in order to reassure them of the Iranian government's power and ability to protect them.  I can't believe they're stupid enough to think that anybody in other countries that matter would believe that thing is what they say it is.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: saggs on February 05, 2013, 12:56:54 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v449/davest/Q-313-cockpit_zps4e07dc76.jpg)

Is is just me or is that a Dynon EFIS?    Looks like D100 and a couple D10s...  guess they couldn't afford the 10" Skyview.



Must make hundreds of experimental builders feel nice that they have the same EFIS as the latest "stealth" aircraft.  :lol
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Vulcan on February 07, 2013, 02:53:30 AM
Nice one aussies  :rock


Quote
Fresh from controversy over a suspicious space-faring monkey, Iran is now under fire over a suspect stealth fighter jet breakthrough that one Australian defence analyst said "looks like it might make a noise and vibrate if you put 20 cents in".
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: cpxxx on February 07, 2013, 06:37:57 AM
That Aussie defence analyst doesn't know what he's talking about. 20 cents will get you nothing these days. It's at least a couple of Dollars. Recently it cost me Two Euros to get my four year old into the advanced stealth jet fighter in the mall!  :airplane: :joystick:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: danny76 on February 07, 2013, 08:15:34 AM
I like the Ejection Seat warning signs that arent written in arabic :lol
also the big bank of switches in front of the base of the stick, I presume none of them would be for anything you'd need in a fight :rofl
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: B4Buster on February 07, 2013, 08:19:38 AM
I like the Ejection Seat warning signs that arent written in arabic :lol
also the big bank of switches in front of the base of the stick, I presume none of them would be for anything you'd need in a fight :rofl

My guess is they look like circuit breakers.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Triton28 on February 07, 2013, 08:30:43 AM
It looks like they licensed that design from Hasbro.

In fact I used to have a G.I. Joe toy back in the late-80s that looked EXACTLY like that. About the same size, too.

 :rofl

That's the first thing I thought about too..
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Tupac on February 07, 2013, 12:04:15 PM
Those look like Dynon products. Somebody at aircraft spruce was probably thinking "Wow! Someone in Iran is going to have an awesome panel for their RV!"
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: B4Buster on February 07, 2013, 12:04:54 PM
Those look like Dynon products. Somebody at aircraft spruce was probably thinking "Wow! Someone in Iran is going to have an awesome panel for their RV!"

 :rofl :aok
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Rob52240 on February 07, 2013, 12:34:26 PM
it's not capable of flight.  It's a mock up that they forgot to size properly for a human.  The video they released is a radio controlled model.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Karnak on February 07, 2013, 02:31:46 PM
I like the Ejection Seat warning signs that arent written in arabic :lol
Arabic would be useless.  Farsi might make more sense than English, but English is standard in the aviation world and they have been operating American built fighters for quite some time.

I wonder if any of their F-14s are still operational?
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: whiteman on February 07, 2013, 04:26:14 PM
Arabic would be useless.  Farsi might make more sense than English, but English is standard in the aviation world and they have been operating American built fighters for quite some time.

I wonder if any of their F-14s are still operational?

i read 3-5 years ago that half the group was never operational and none have been for quite a while.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 07, 2013, 04:55:26 PM

I wonder if any of their F-14s are still operational?

IIRC, they've been pretty much mothballed since they can't get any replacement parts nor manufacture the parts they need.  I know there were a few arrests of people trying to smuggle in parts for the Tomcat to the Iranians during the '80s and '90s.  It's also the reason why the USN butchered and chopped up the F-14s that were retired to prevent any parts from falling into Iranian hands.

During the mid-80s though, the Iranians did try to modify a Hawk SAM missile to be carried on their F-14s since I guess they couldn't get their Phoenix missiles to work.

Iranian F-14 with modified Hawk SAM missile attached.
(http://www.afwing.com/gallery/iran/Resize%20of%207.jpg)

ack-ack
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: james on February 07, 2013, 10:34:20 PM
Its an old thrustmaster joystick taped to a pole for a stick. The cockpit is an Ackers-Barnes with some mods. It was the first sim pit I built about 8 years ago and downloadable on the net. Even the wannabe AcesII seat is downloadable in schematic form. The skin of the plane is probably painted fiberglass.  :bolt:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: SQUAT! on February 08, 2013, 03:48:46 AM
I'm sure a country that has the tec to develop a nuke also has scientist that could develop a descant fighter jet. The F-14's are useless. But think of what they could have learned from examining them. I noticed a lot of people severely underestimating iran. Ever think there is a reason they DO NOT get along with the arab country's but only Iraq ever had the balls to attack them? North Vietnam could not beat us. Japan could never hit us here at home. And the towers could handle an impact from a passenger jet. Never underestimate anyone. And read the clip again. It does not say they are producing the fighter. It's still being designed. And how much help from China and russia are they getting that we may not know about. Don't forget. Those are irans allies. It never seams to surprise me how little people actually research things before they speak on them

Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: danny76 on February 08, 2013, 04:04:01 AM
A conventional army loses if it doesn't win. A guerrilla army wins if it doesn't lose.
How did North Vietnam not succeed? They weren't attacking US soil, they defended their home soil and after countless thousands of casualties on both sides, both military and civilian, billions of dollars spent, and the US finally exiting the conflict with the last man scrambling onto a rope ladder from a huey, whilst the north was essentially unaffected. Doesn't sound like my definition of a win. :old:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: danny76 on February 08, 2013, 04:07:33 AM
Just re read your post and realised you were being ironic :bolt:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Tupac on February 08, 2013, 05:09:28 AM
The way to win a war is to kill lots and lots of civilians. We did not win against North Vietnam because we chose not flatten all of the cities.

I'm sure a country that has the tec to develop a nuke also has scientist that could develop a descant fighter jet. The F-14's are useless. But think of what they could have learned from examining them. I noticed a lot of people severely underestimating iran. Ever think there is a reason they DO NOT get along with the arab country's but only Iraq ever had the balls to attack them? North Vietnam could not beat us. Japan could never hit us here at home. And the towers could handle an impact from a passenger jet. Never underestimate anyone. And read the clip again. It does not say they are producing the fighter. It's still being designed. And how much help from China and russia are they getting that we may not know about. Don't forget. Those are irans allies. It never seams to surprise me how little people actually research things before they speak on them



You'd think for a fighter being researched they would have researched how to build a cockpit big enough so they could actually close the lid with a full size person in there.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: B4Buster on February 08, 2013, 09:29:16 AM
I'm sure a country that has the tec to develop a nuke also has scientist that could develop a descant fighter jet. The F-14's are useless. But think of what they could have learned from examining them. I noticed a lot of people severely underestimating iran. Ever think there is a reason they DO NOT get along with the arab country's but only Iraq ever had the balls to attack them? North Vietnam could not beat us. Japan could never hit us here at home. And the towers could handle an impact from a passenger jet. Never underestimate anyone. And read the clip again. It does not say they are producing the fighter. It's still being designed. And how much help from China and russia are they getting that we may not know about. Don't forget. Those are irans allies. It never seams to surprise me how little people actually research things before they speak on them



Untrue, the towers were never built to withstand an impact from a wide-bodied aircraft.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: cpxxx on February 08, 2013, 09:42:59 AM
Squat, even if you take them seriously any new fighter they produce is at least ten years away. Probably more. Even countries with a proven record of combat aircraft production take a long time to develop them to the point where they enter service. The F22 and the Typhoon were at least twenty years in development. Then there's the F35.

Meanwhile we have the Iranians telling us they are developing a stealth fighter without all the background and experience to be found in the US aerospace industry. Don't think for one minute either the Russians or Chinese are going to hand over their secrets.

I think many people are stuck in the past in their understanding of how modern jet fighters or attack aircraft are developed. Sure anyone can design an airplane. My six year is pretty good at it. But that's a long way from producing an integrated weapon system. It's a massively complex process. It's not like the days when the P51 was designed in weeks.

With all due respect to the Iranians' capabilities. They cannot simply leapfrog all the amassed knowledge hard won by other countries. It's a pure fantasy project.

Beside how can you take it seriously when the mock up is so shoddily built and looks like a high school project.  :banana:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Rich46yo on February 08, 2013, 10:31:57 AM
You think NV was "uneffected"? We bombed the place to smithereeens, essentually forcing them to make peace. A peace deal they broke as soon as our forces mostly left. NV was basically bombed into a pre-Industrial age country. Had we not restricted our bombing operations for so many years things would have turned out different.


A conventional army loses if it doesn't win. A guerrilla army wins if it doesn't lose.
How did North Vietnam not succeed? They weren't attacking US soil, they defended their home soil and after countless thousands of casualties on both sides, both military and civilian, billions of dollars spent, and the US finally exiting the conflict with the last man scrambling onto a rope ladder from a huey, whilst the north was essentially unaffected. Doesn't sound like my definition of a win. :old:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: danny76 on February 08, 2013, 11:14:56 AM
You think NV was "uneffected"? We bombed the place to smithereeens, essentually forcing them to make peace. A peace deal they broke as soon as our forces mostly left. NV was basically bombed into a pre-Industrial age country. Had we not restricted our bombing operations for so many years things would have turned out different.



Unrestricted bombing didnt work against London, or against Germany, or for that matter against Japan unless you consider the Nuclear option, and that required 2!.
Are you seriously suggesting that NV sued for peace and the US  won?  If so then not wishing any disrespect you have been deluded.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 08, 2013, 12:28:01 PM
The Linebacker II raids in 1972 forced the North Vietnamese back to the negotiation table.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Rob52240 on February 08, 2013, 12:31:15 PM
I wonder how many of these it would take to get to the base of a mountain from the summit.

(http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/israel-asks-us-for-advanced-bunker-buster-bombs-march-8-2012.jpg)

Maybe somebody will ask Mr. Owl to weigh in...
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: danny76 on February 08, 2013, 12:38:35 PM
The Linebacker II raids in 1972 forced the North Vietnamese back to the negotiation table.

ack-ack

OK. And why not. They were desperate to negotiate because the war was going so badly for them
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Zoney on February 08, 2013, 01:29:11 PM
I wonder how many of these it would take to get to the base of a mountain from the summit.

(http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/israel-asks-us-for-advanced-bunker-buster-bombs-march-8-2012.jpg)

Maybe somebody will ask Mr. Owl to weigh in...

"it's just like shooting womp rats back home"
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Sabre on February 08, 2013, 01:34:50 PM
cpxxs hit the nail on the head.  A modern military aircraft is a system of systems, and integrating them in even a more conventional aircraft is beyond the capabilities of all but a few industrial nations.  On a low-observable aircraft, it's doubly difficult.  The USAF spent untold millions of dollars and thousands of hours in super-computer time just to develop the radome on the nose of the F-22.  The mockup pictured in the news article, even if it was a full-sized, high quality model (which it is not) would be nothing more than a stage prop.  As it is, it's neither of those, and looks all the world like an up-scaled GI Joe toy (I believe some mentioned this earlier).  It is not stealthy (you'll have to take my word that I know something about this) at even the most basic level, let alone at the multiple levels that go beyond simply geometric shape. Metallurgy, computer hardware and software, electromagnet computational capability, composite materials engineering...the list goes on and on, and all of it needing to be integrated (systems engineering on steroids) into a functional weapons system. Designing and building a basic atom bomb is actually easier, particularly if you're only trying to make a couple.  This Iranian project is pure propaganda, and likely intended for internal or at best, regional consumption.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Babalonian on February 08, 2013, 04:27:41 PM
I don't think they could see their wingman out of that plexiglass neverless a modern aircraft carrier...  I see the headline now, "Swarm of Iranian jets inadvertently kamikazee China's new carrier on maiden voyage into gulf, carrier mistaken for intended Disney ruise ship nearby".
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Tec on February 08, 2013, 04:48:23 PM
I'm sure a country that has the tec to develop a nuke also has scientist that could develop a descant fighter jet.


Have you seen their domestically produced "fighter" the Saeqeh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Saeqeh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Saeqeh)

Their best effort thus far is a knock off a 50 year old U.S. design.  I don't think we'll have to worry about a sky full of Iranian super stealth tie fighters for a while.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Saxman on February 08, 2013, 06:02:31 PM
Have you seen their domestically produced "fighter" the Saeqeh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Saeqeh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HESA_Saeqeh)

Their best effort thus far is a knock off a 50 year old U.S. design.  I don't think we'll have to worry about a sky full of Iranian super stealth tie fighters for a while.

Heh, I wonder if the Blue Angels can sue them for copyright infringement.  :D
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Babalonian on February 08, 2013, 06:32:52 PM
Heh, I wonder if the Blue Angels can sue them for copyright infringement.  :D

"Mimicry is the highest form of flattery."
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on February 08, 2013, 06:40:38 PM
OK. And why not. They were desperate to negotiate because the war was going so badly for them

So i suppose Germany & Japan also won because they were forced to the negotiation table after being defeated.


The thought process...wow.


Anyhow like others have said before, we would be foolish to think another human being cannot do what we have done, doesn't matter if its 50 years late, or 10 years from now. Stealth is just a new way of making aircraft, once the general idea and concept is fully understood it will be used in any object from a missile to a bomb to a bridge that you don't want bouncing radar waves back from.

Even now korea iran and other nations are sending things into space, building nukes and all kinds of 20th century tech, and more. And they are not going to stop, they will never stop.

http://aviationintel.com/2011/10/12/america-needs-a-heavy-stealth-revolution/


^^^^ Interesting read, i hope someone can enjoy it. ^^^^


Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Mano on February 09, 2013, 12:41:52 AM
I think we have seen that design before.






(http://onaquasirelatednote.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/the-jetsons-gi-top.jpg)



 :D
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: SQUAT! on February 09, 2013, 01:36:26 AM
Untrue, the towers were never built to withstand an impact from a wide-bodied aircraft.

I'm sure more info about the subject can be found easily. But read up on a subject before speaking on it  :salute

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930227&slug=1687698 (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930227&slug=1687698)


Squat, even if you take them seriously any new fighter they produce is at least ten years away. Probably more. Even countries with a proven record of combat aircraft production take a long time to develop them to the point where they enter service. The F22 and the Typhoon were at least twenty years in development. Then there's the F35.

Meanwhile we have the Iranians telling us they are developing a stealth fighter without all the background and experience to be found in the US aerospace industry. Don't think for one minute either the Russians or Chinese are going to hand over their secrets.

I think many people are stuck in the past in their understanding of how modern jet fighters or attack aircraft are developed. Sure anyone can design an airplane. My six year is pretty good at it. But that's a long way from producing an integrated weapon system. It's a massively complex process. It's not like the days when the P51 was designed in weeks.

With all due respect to the Iranians' capabilities. They cannot simply leapfrog all the amassed knowledge hard won by other countries. It's a pure fantasy project.

Beside how can you take it seriously when the mock up is so shoddily built and looks like a high school project.  :banana:

Give up there secrets no. But help them develop a fighter? Very likely. After all they have plenty of oil to use towards bargaining with russia and china. And 20 year old jet tech can still be a threat today. Iran should not be underestimated at all. History has shown that the enemy you underestimate is the one that hits you hardest. Is that jet a propaganda scheme?  Probably. But to underestimate irans capability's could land us in trouble.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Anodizer on February 09, 2013, 05:01:18 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtqy4DTHGqg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtqy4DTHGqg)

Meh........ :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: danny76 on February 09, 2013, 05:20:56 AM
So i suppose Germany & Japan also won because they were forced to the negotiation table after being defeated.


The thought process...wow.


Anyhow like others have said before, we would be foolish to think another human being cannot do what we have done, doesn't matter if its 50 years late, or 10 years from now. Stealth is just a new way of making aircraft, once the general idea and concept is fully understood it will be used in any object from a missile to a bomb to a bridge that you don't want bouncing radar waves back from.

Even now korea iran and other nations are sending things into space, building nukes and all kinds of 20th century tech, and more. And they are not going to stop, they will never stop.

http://aviationintel.com/2011/10/12/america-needs-a-heavy-stealth-revolution/


^^^^ Interesting read, i hope someone can enjoy it. ^^^^




The difference being that Japan and Germany wanted to surrender, they were finished militarily. America wanted negotiation to sue for peace because the war had become unwinnable.

Not sure the derogatory "thought process" comment was warranted but then that is what is now expected practice rather than having a reasonable conversation.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: cpxxx on February 09, 2013, 07:00:53 AM
Discussion of the twin towers risks spinning off into conspiracy theory territory. But while the Seattle Times article is interesting and prescient, two things are clear. They were not designed to withstand a hit from a wide body aircraft a 707 which isn't widebody. Secondly they got it wrong, neither stood up to a hit.

As for Iran's toy plane. Sabre put it much better than me. I do find it strange that even on a website of aviation enthusiasts as many of us are. That there is such a complete lack of appreciation of the sheer complexity of producing military aircraft. If it was that easy why is it that so few countries are in the business? It's as if people are stuck back in the 1940s in terms of their appreciation of military hardware and software.

The 'Saeqeh' Iran's previous effort is clearly what it is. A rip off and development of the F5. It's a nice airframe. But airfame counts for little in the modern era. It's what's under the skin that counts.

That doesn't even consider the sheer costs involved. If Iran was a more open country it's government would cancel anything like that. It is simply unaffordable. I suspect Iran's aerospace industry keeps itself going either by pretending it has the capability to compete with the big powers or simply that it goes along with with madder fantasies of it's theocratic government who clearly have no idea of the real complexities involved.



Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Rob52240 on February 09, 2013, 08:35:19 AM
Discussion of the twin towers risks spinning off into conspiracy theory territory. But while the Seattle Times article is interesting and prescient, two things are clear. They were not designed to withstand a hit from a wide body aircraft a 707 which isn't widebody. Secondly they got it wrong, neither stood up to a hit.

As for Iran's toy plane. Sabre put it much better than me. I do find it strange that even on a website of aviation enthusiasts as many of us are. That there is such a complete lack of appreciation of the sheer complexity of producing military aircraft. If it was that easy why is it that so few countries are in the business? It's as if people are stuck back in the 1940s in terms of their appreciation of military hardware and software.

The 'Saeqeh' Iran's previous effort is clearly what it is. A rip off and development of the F5. It's a nice airframe. But airfame counts for little in the modern era. It's what's under the skin that counts.

That doesn't even consider the sheer costs involved. If Iran was a more open country it's government would cancel anything like that. It is simply unaffordable. I suspect Iran's aerospace industry keeps itself going either by pretending it has the capability to compete with the big powers or simply that it goes along with with madder fantasies of it's theocratic government who clearly have no idea of the real complexities involved.





Take a look at that plane and tell me where they could have possibly left room for weapons and fuel.  The wings look proportionally smaller than those on the F-105 Ground Nail.

The videos are a hoax, the plane is a hoax and the Iranian government is about as trustworthy as a Spike TV documentary.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: kilo2 on February 09, 2013, 09:53:27 AM
"Mimicry is the highest form of flattery."

I think the quote is "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: stealth on February 10, 2013, 11:21:06 PM
I'm a student in school and in my JROTC we have this weekly aviation news thing that 2 kids do each Monday. When my class commander came up and had this little story about Iran's new fighter. Some of the class was in like none belief and brought up it looks just like the F-22, including the teacher. Personally I almost giggled a little bit and thought it had a closer resemblance to some type of toaster, but oh well. Anyway the presentation pretty much ended in Iran is getting more deadly fighter technology and that they are a serious threat.

Now what do you guys think of that?
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: cpxxx on February 11, 2013, 07:11:39 AM
Well they convinced some high school kids.  :lol

But I'm sure your class would have come up with a better design and built a better model.
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: B4Buster on February 11, 2013, 09:16:01 AM
I'm sure more info about the subject can be found easily. But read up on a subject before speaking on it  :salute

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930227&slug=1687698 (http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19930227&slug=1687698)


I extend that invitation to you sir.  :salute

Discussion of the twin towers risks spinning off into conspiracy theory territory. But while the Seattle Times article is interesting and prescient, two things are clear. They were not designed to withstand a hit from a wide body aircraft a 707 which isn't widebody.

I'm not here to discuss the demise of the twin towers, but I wanted to point out your incorrect statement. (See above quote from cpxx)
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Megalodon on February 11, 2013, 12:08:11 PM
IIRC, they've been pretty much mothballed since they can't get any replacement parts nor manufacture the parts they need.  I know there were a few arrests of people trying to smuggle in parts for the Tomcat to the Iranians during the '80s and '90s.  It's also the reason why the USN butchered and chopped up the F-14s that were retired to prevent any parts from falling into Iranian hands.

During the mid-80s though, the Iranians did try to modify a Hawk SAM missile to be carried on their F-14s since I guess they couldn't get their Phoenix missiles to work.

Iranian F-14 with modified Hawk SAM missile attached.
(http://www.afwing.com/gallery/iran/Resize%20of%207.jpg)

ack-ack

10 years before that when the contract for 80 F-14 was struck. My father was working for Hughes AC and helped design the Phoenix missile system. We had four pilots come stay with us  Mede, Ali, Kazaam and Mohamed. They were here receiving training at MiraMar for that very system.

Most likely they could not get any parts or munitions after the hostage situation in 79 for anything...

Edit: plus the overthrow of the Shaw didn't help..
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: USRanger on February 19, 2013, 08:11:12 PM
So, Iran has a new fighter.  That's cute.

(http://s7.postimage.org/3pujemsez/858016_383915005041145_1808965262_o.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5uewfpu1j/full/)
Title: Re: Iran unveils newest domestic, fighter plane
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 19, 2013, 08:28:32 PM
That doesn't even consider the sheer costs involved. If Iran was a more open country it's government would cancel anything like that. It is simply unaffordable. I suspect Iran's aerospace industry keeps itself going either by pretending it has the capability to compete with the big powers or simply that it goes along with with madder fantasies of it's theocratic government who clearly have no idea of the real complexities involved.

I think the Iranian aerospace industry goes along with the madder fantasies of mullah's in charge.  The video of their 'stealth' fighter wasn't really intended for western audiences but rather internal to show the common Iranian citizen that their country's technology and military industry is on par, if not, superior to that of the West.  We of course know this is just an Iranian fantasy but to the average Iranian, to them it's true.

ack-ack