Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: stlcoguy on February 03, 2013, 10:58:37 AM
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Less experienced pilots return home to land them so they can build them up. Veteran pilots are upset because people won't stay and fight. Which means people will always play to either, guard against loss of points or play in a manner that gains them the most, which others of course complain isn't right, fair, or whatever. So why not remove the eny/perk issue all together. Make all vehicles and aircraft available all the time. Thus making things equal all the time. If one country is low on player numbers, no biggie, that changes contantly. Someone will always fing something to complain about, that's just reality. Turn everything on and go from there. Perhaps, HiTech would try this on a limited basis, such as a holidays for example. The point is, no points, no point issues.
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Thus making things equal all the time.
So what do you think will happen to the gameplay in the arena when the Me 262 and Tempest are freely available to everyone, all the time? ;)
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because then everyone would fly the most uber machine always. At least with the way it is, if your team as a numbers advantage it doesn't get the same equipment advantage.
I understand trying to bring your plane home, I like to try and get mine home as well, but I only head for home once my plane can't fight. Other wise I stay in the fight. How else are you going to learn to get better at fighting? Points and perks.... who cares. Eventually you get good enough that you'll have so many you won't know what to do with them IF you stand and fight.
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If one country is low on player numbers, no biggie, that changes contantly.
no it doesn't..
I can predict quite reliably the time of day when all the rooks and knights log in and the bishops become outnumbered. And it stays that way all night. So, it doesn't change constantly, it repeats constantly.
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People would still run. I have played AH since before the perk system or any perk plane had been added and players have always run. People run because they don't want to get shot down. It could be for score reasons, it could be for roleplay reasons, it could be to avoid the 10 minute flight back to the fight or it could be to increase perk point gains by 25%.
Your suggested solution wouldn't solve what you claim it would solve and it would introduce huge problems into the game.
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I think the perk system is a good fair play mechanism. I think it could be expanded a wee bit. I think it could be enhanced by a floating perk value based on the number of planes in play at the time you select your plane kind of like the limiting eny system. As an example, when you go to take a P51D and the system count on mustangs is high, you might have a perk payment of 5, when the numbers of P51 fall it would have a zero cost.
I keep seeing post of people running. How can you distinguish between a run for perks or a needed exit? Most of the time I have chosen a plane that is not fast enough to run from a lot of planes unless I am in a dive but I do choose a mustang off and on. When I do point the nose down, it is to escape to get a better position, damaged plane or pilot or short of fuel and or ammo.
If you have a fast plane, and you use the speed to break out how is that different than a spit or 109 that escapes by climbing like a rocket?
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Hi, welcome to the AH BBS! :)
Here, you're going to need this:
(http://www.made-from-india.com/gallery/e41690ea30a5ff024cf8229c747aa4e1.jpg)
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Right and that's why the Bish win so many maps, which i see regularly
no it doesn't..
I can predict quite reliably the time of day when all the rooks and knights log in and the bishops become outnumbered. And it stays that way all night. So, it doesn't change constantly, it repeats constantly.
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The rest of you are missing the real issue - except lusche.
Other than a disguised wish for freely available perk rides for the horde, there's no justifcation because beyond the newer players (such as the OP himself perhaps) perkies are not hard to accrue - "top" players he alludes to often have more than they care to use -and I am not seeing the accrual of perkies as a motivator, except by those who lust after what they think is an uber-ride that will show the world their mad skillz if they could only get the perkies needed in the first place. :noid
Consider access to the perk rides a bonus for playing well. And go play well. There are a variety of strategies, but at the end of the day they all have this in common: ruin someone else's sortie, and to an extent, their ablility to accrue the perkies they want in order to get in a ride they think will give them revenge, and uhmmmm, display their mad skillz to the world. :aok And stop hording, or switch the outnumbered side and accrue perkies even faster - you gain more doing that than by achieving a reset.
Now, preserving the actual perk ride you managed to acquire is a slightly different matter and depends on choices the driver makes in bringing it home or not.
Perk points and ENY do not quite equal scoring/rank points, which is where the OP is confusing the issue. Rank and scores have been shown to be a motivator for many, even if only on a personal level. This is where you more obviously encounter the red herring used in the OPs original argument: ganging (and timidiness.)
I know you're new and full of bright ideas, so nothing wrong with putting them out there. However, two things will be more effective than having a thick head and skin in deflecting the flames: researching the issue and trying to look at it from the broader gameplay aspect (for everyone, not just yourself or your "side.")
But let me give you a proper welcome and a taste of what may come. :aok
(http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr355/swatpeace/stfunoob.jpg)
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I think the perk system is a good fair play mechanism. I think it could be expanded a wee bit. I think it could be enhanced by a floating perk value based on the number of planes in play at the time you select your plane kind of like the limiting eny system. As an example, when you go to take a P51D and the system count on mustangs is high, you might have a perk payment of 5, when the numbers of P51 fall it would have a zero cost.
I keep seeing post of people running. How can you distinguish between a run for perks or a needed exit? Most of the time I have chosen a plane that is not fast enough to run from a lot of planes unless I am in a dive but I do choose a mustang off and on. When I do point the nose down, it is to escape to get a better position, damaged plane or pilot or short of fuel and or ammo.
If you have a fast plane, and you use the speed to break out how is that different than a spit or 109 that escapes by climbing like a rocket?
Not sure about the perk cost associated with the mustang....too many newer players like to fly it just because it's a mustang....been hashed out several times before prob not gonna get perked.
As far as running....you can't tell (usually...more on this later) and that's just how it is. Alot of times calling out someone as timid is just sour grapes. Sometimes it's the truth. It's something we can't control because there will always be those whose style of play we don't like. I like to mix it up under the crowd and try to live by killing all the red guys...vs living by staying out of reach. I don't begrudge those who choose to survive by staying out of reach but it can be frustrating...so you get people calling out other people as timid. Like I said...sometimes the shoe fits and other times it's a sign of frustration. I'm guilty of it too (namecalling)...we all are at one time or another. I know this...when I'm out of ammo, gas or damaged I'm leaving if I can (if I'm still alive). That can look timid to an nme if he sees it...especially if he just got to the fight.
Alot of guys (gals..whatever) upon seeing a large group of red planes headed their way will turn away and head for a large group of green guys. Is that timid? Depends on how ya look at it. It is kinda funny to be flying at a group of dots a little higher and a little bigger than your group only to look around and see your the only guy or one of two guys still headed in the same direction lol. Timid? I don't know....I think a large group of red guys would be hard pressed to name call one or two nme planes "timid" for leaving in that situation.
Using the superior speed of your plane to secure or maintain an advantage is no different from using any other characteristic a plane has that makes it better than another plane. It's like complaining because a zero or brewster turns inside you're mustang...superior turn performance is what they are relatively good at so they use it. (See the above comments on calling folks timid out of frustration). So...just because you fly a mustang to it's strengths in no way makes you timid.
OTOH.......There are cases of people who regularly display a pattern of behavior that could definately be called timid. They tend to fly fast planes...a group that includes the mustang. It's these folks, who run as soon as they see a co-alt or higher dot, refuse to fight unless they have numerical superiority, run then come back and pick after you've been engaged by the group of red guys they ran to who now have you in a 2 or 3 on one....then boast about it....who really cause the frustration. I can't control the behavior of others, so I try not to...so I try not to call them out by calling them timid.
I just know it must suck to be one of 'em, because they know somewhere deep down, that's the best they can do.
Zaphod
The only time
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Right and that's why the Bish win so many maps, which i see regularly
not between the hours of 8-11pm eastern you dont..
daytime is a different story.
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Less experienced pilots return home to land them so they can build them up. Veteran pilots are upset because people won't stay and fight. Which means people will always play to either, guard against loss of points or play in a manner that gains them the most, which others of course complain isn't right, fair, or whatever. So why not remove the eny/perk issue all together. Make all vehicles and aircraft available all the time. Thus making things equal all the time. If one country is low on player numbers, no biggie, that changes contantly. Someone will always fing something to complain about, that's just reality. Turn everything on and go from there. Perhaps, HiTech would try this on a limited basis, such as a holidays for example. The point is, no points, no point issues.
I've flown the 38 since it's inception. It is not the most uber in the bunch. I have over 40,000 perks. You don't need an uber plane to be successful.
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I heard this song before. :O
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Don't display kills or points landed in ENY =/>10
:bolt:
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I've flown the 38 since it's inception. It is not the most uber in the bunch. I have over 40,000 perks. You don't need an uber plane to be successful.
Two engines instead of just one?? Sounds pretty Uber to me.... :D :rock
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Two engines instead of just one?? Sounds pretty Uber to me.... :D :rock
I was thinking the same thing... :noid
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So what do you think will happen to the gameplay in the arena when the Me 262 and Tempest are freely available to everyone, all the time? ;)
AvA Jetweek... on roids and with icons.
Edit: although... April 1st is only around a couple corners.
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So what do you think will happen to the gameplay in the arena when the Me 262 and Tempest are freely available to everyone, all the time? ;)
One they're removed from the game like they should be, nothing at all.
The Tiger II as well. It has no more place in the game than nukes, V-2 rockets, or laser-equipped flying sharks do. And the 163 is just plain ridiculous. One big strat run will often result in more A2A victories by 163s than occurred in the whole (real-life) war!
Beyond that, I think it would be better for the game if perks were spent regardless of the outcome of the flight. The current system only encourages overly timid play while in perk rides.
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One they're removed from the game like they should be, nothing at all.
The Tiger II as well. It has no more place in the game than nukes, V-2 rockets, or laser-equipped flying sharks do. And the 163 is just plain ridiculous. One big strat run will often result in more A2A victories by 163s than occurred in the whole (real-life) war!
Beyond that, I think it would be better for the game if perks were spent regardless of the outcome of the flight. The current system only encourages overly timid play while in perk rides.
Loki's Law.
Relax, it's only a game, that's why we have the cool toys to play around with for entertainment. We have V-2s and nukes?
It is just mean how long HiTech has been keeping those sharks cooped up in a tank somewhere.
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Why should the Tempest be removed? Hundreds were built and fought. If the Tempest doesn't make the cut, then certainly the Fw190D-9 and Bf109K-4 also fail to make the cut. N1K2-J, F4U-1C and F4U-4 as fail as well.
You're arguing that only a subset of WWII equipment should be added. Once you do that everybody will disagree with everybody elses, including HTC's, criteria as to why their toy isn't in.
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It is just mean how long HiTech has been keeping those sharks cooped up in a tank somewhere.
I'm still waiting for the sharks!
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Why should the Tempest be removed?
For game balance. Everyone seems to think that if the Tempest were unperked, it would totally dominate the MA. If it's that awesome, it unbalances the game. Perking it just means that the only people who can fly it frequently are the very people who don't need an edge on the opposition.
If the Tempest doesn't make the cut, then certainly the Fw190D-9 and Bf109K-4 also fail to make the cut. N1K2-J, F4U-1C and F4U-4 as fail as well.
I wouldn't cry to see the C-Hog go, although I do like to fly it. The C-hog with perfectly (or even acceptably) functional cannons simply didn't exist in WW2, though, so the version we have is a fiction.
If I'm not mistaken the others on your list, aside from the N1K2-J, all had 4-digit production during the war and saw frequent combat for the better part of a year at least. I wouldn't mind seeing an N1K1-J to replace the K2, although again for game balance it's nice for the IJNAS to have at least one plane that's competitive in Late War. In any event, none of those planes utterly dominate every fight they're in the way 262s and Tiger IIs do.
You're arguing that only a subset of WWII equipment should be added. Once you do that everybody will disagree with everybody elses, including HTC's, criteria as to why their toy isn't in.
We already have a subset, and yes, this is just my opinion on what it should be, and everyone else is free to have theirs. But I'm basing the above on what I see as optimum game balance, not just on what I think is neat. (Although, I think it's barely short of criminal that we have Tiger IIs but nothing Russian heavier than the T-34/85 - IIRC there were almost 10 IS-2s built for every Konigstiger, although some of that was postwar. But the IS-2 never shows up in American movies and TV and Soviet tanks and planes don't have the cult following that overengineered Teutonic boondoggles do.)
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For game balance. Everyone seems to think that if the Tempest were unperked, it would totally dominate the MA. If it's that awesome, it unbalances the game. Perking it just means that the only people who can fly it frequently are the very people who don't need an edge on the opposition.
I wouldn't cry to see the C-Hog go, although I do like to fly it. The C-hog with perfectly (or even acceptably) functional cannons simply didn't exist in WW2, though, so the version we have is a fiction.
If I'm not mistaken the others on your list, aside from the N1K2-J, all had 4-digit production during the war and saw frequent combat for the better part of a year at least. I wouldn't mind seeing an N1K1-J to replace the K2, although again for game balance it's nice for the IJNAS to have at least one plane that's competitive in Late War. In any event, none of those planes utterly dominate every fight they're in the way 262s and Tiger IIs do.
We already have a subset, and yes, this is just my opinion on what it should be, and everyone else is free to have theirs. But I'm basing the above on what I see as optimum game balance, not just on what I think is neat. (Although, I think it's barely short of criminal that we have Tiger IIs but nothing Russian heavier than the T-34/85 - IIRC there were almost 10 IS-2s built for every Konigstiger, although some of that was postwar. But the IS-2 never shows up in American movies and TV and Soviet tanks and planes don't have the cult following that overengineered Teutonic boondoggles do.)
Just like unlimited lives, 10 troops capturing a town, spawn points for vehicles, etc.
Oh yeah, nevermind. I lost myself there for a moment and forgot that this is a game that we play...
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For game balance. Everyone seems to think that if the Tempest were unperked, it would totally dominate the MA. If it's that awesome, it unbalances the game. Perking it just means that the only people who can fly it frequently are the very people who don't need an edge on the opposition.
I wouldn't cry to see the C-Hog go, although I do like to fly it. The C-hog with perfectly (or even acceptably) functional cannons simply didn't exist in WW2, though, so the version we have is a fiction.
If I'm not mistaken the others on your list, aside from the N1K2-J, all had 4-digit production during the war and saw frequent combat for the better part of a year at least. I wouldn't mind seeing an N1K1-J to replace the K2, although again for game balance it's nice for the IJNAS to have at least one plane that's competitive in Late War. In any event, none of those planes utterly dominate every fight they're in the way 262s and Tiger IIs do.
We already have a subset, and yes, this is just my opinion on what it should be, and everyone else is free to have theirs. But I'm basing the above on what I see as optimum game balance, not just on what I think is neat. (Although, I think it's barely short of criminal that we have Tiger IIs but nothing Russian heavier than the T-34/85 - IIRC there were almost 10 IS-2s built for every Konigstiger, although some of that was postwar. But the IS-2 never shows up in American movies and TV and Soviet tanks and planes don't have the cult following that overengineered Teutonic boondoggles do.)
The LWA really is not set up to be a historically accurate recreation of the war, its really just the arena that has all the planes from the entire war. Its set up to maximize gameplay and enjoyment, based on HTCs past experience of what the majority of its players want that arena to be. The AvA and Special Event arenas, however, set up the historical recreations that you are talking about all the time, with accurate plane types, accurate side balances, etc. (FSO, scenerios, snapshots, TDiWWII). Or at least the best the CM's can do with what the game gives them. If that is what you are looking for, the game has that type of gameplay available. Its just not the MA.
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For game balance. Everyone seems to think that if the Tempest were unperked, it would totally dominate the MA. If it's that awesome, it unbalances the game. Perking it just means that the only people who can fly it frequently are the very people who don't need an edge on the opposition.
You will always have units that are better than others. Do I get to whine that there are things my favorite kite is disadvantaged against? Seems pretty silly. In addition the perk system provides a carrot to work towards, pushing players into less commonly used units to try to earn perk points faster. This isn't for everybody, but it does happen.
I wouldn't cry to see the C-Hog go, although I do like to fly it. The C-hog with perfectly (or even acceptably) functional cannons simply didn't exist in WW2, though, so the version we have is a fiction.
If I'm not mistaken the others on your list, aside from the N1K2-J, all had 4-digit production during the war and saw frequent combat for the better part of a year at least. I wouldn't mind seeing an N1K1-J to replace the K2, although again for game balance it's nice for the IJNAS to have at least one plane that's competitive in Late War. In any event, none of those planes utterly dominate every fight they're in the way 262s and Tiger IIs do.
Of those on that short list only the Bf109K-4 had quadruple digit production during the war. There were more than twice as many N1K2-Js built as F4U-1Cs and the Fw190D-9 had about 700 total. There is a fairly extensive list of units in Aces High that had lower production numbers than the N1K2-J including the Ar234B, Brewster, C.205, F4U-1C, Il-2 with 37mm cannons, La-7 with three 20mm cannons, Me163B, P-47M, Ostwind, Seafire Mk II, Ta152H-1 and Wirbelwind.
We already have a subset, and yes, this is just my opinion on what it should be, and everyone else is free to have theirs. But I'm basing the above on what I see as optimum game balance, not just on what I think is neat. (Although, I think it's barely short of criminal that we have Tiger IIs but nothing Russian heavier than the T-34/85 - IIRC there were almost 10 IS-2s built for every Konigstiger, although some of that was postwar. But the IS-2 never shows up in American movies and TV and Soviet tanks and planes don't have the cult following that overengineered Teutonic boondoggles do.)
Yes, but it is a growing subset without the kinds of limits you would place on it.
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One they're removed from the game like they should be, nothing at all.
The Tiger II as well. It has no more place in the game than nukes, V-2 rockets, or laser-equipped flying sharks do. And the 163 is just plain ridiculous. One big strat run will often result in more A2A victories by 163s than occurred in the whole (real-life) war!
Tiger2s did exist during the war, in fact, they were used even on the hungarian front...
As for your strat run.. why do you do large scale strat runs? To make the town/AA/radar downtime longer? Ergo, you can horde more, you can vulch more, the enemy cant see you anymore (you can avoid fights longer)?
huh?
Also, 262 are NOT good in 1v1. In a bit more than 2 years, i have NEVER seen a 262 ruining my good fight. They only excel against the vulching hordes - might explain why youre scourging them that hard.
Finally, i do agree with the increase of the russian arsenal: KV, IS, Tu-2, fighters, etc
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I've flown the 38 since it's inception. It is not the most uber in the bunch. I have over 40,000 perks. You don't need an uber plane to be successful.
Killing innocent Spit-trainers shouldn't count :devil
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Right and that's why the Bish win so many maps, which i see regularly
lol, what?
(http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv115/Babalon84/AH%20Junk/KnitWin_zps68d0b52a.png)
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Tiger2s did exist during the war, in fact, they were used even on the hungarian front...
Of course they existed, just like V-2s and Yamato-class battleships existed, but like those other two they had very little effect on the outcome of the war or even any battle in it - the Soviets still won a massive victory in Hungary. They were hugely expensive and just too big and heavy for the limits of the technology of the time. They were difficult to move around, spent an inordinate amount of time out of action due to mechanical difficulties, and more of them were destroyed by their own crews because they were immobile than were destroyed in ground combat. All in all the Germans would have been much better off if they'd just spent the same resources on several thousand Panthers and/or TDs.
They do have a high cool factor, but the main reason I don't like them in game is just because they're too powerful. You have a point about 262s and 1-1s but outside of very restrictive terrain like towns a Tiger 2 will win any 1-1 against any other tank, every time, in any circumstances, and beyond a certain minimum the skill of the players won't change that. Without its real-life limitations, having it in the game is in game (not historical) terms about like having F-22s.
Edit: Also, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying AH stinks or anything, just offering an opinion on how I think it could be a little better from a game balance perspective.
As for your strat run.. why do you do large scale strat runs?
Actually, mostly because it's fun. A big strat raid will always get a big response.
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Well, look at the numerical superiority, then you will see how much the soviets had to sweat to beat us...
You might have ran into very numerous tiger2s last week... they are extremely common in the MA since they are invulnerable to bombs, you know...
Anyways... are you complaining about seeing a big respnse when youre trying to provoke a big response?
I just cant get it :headscratch:
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You could argue that the 30,000+ Bf109s didn't have any effect on the war too, if you want to use the metric you just suggested for the Tiger II, after all, the Axis lost.