Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Noir on February 20, 2013, 05:14:30 AM
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Don't get me wrong I use it all the time but I find that a pilot lifting from his chair in a 400mph dive seems a bit weird and gives certain rides an unfair advantage.
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I find that a pilot lifting from his chair in a 400mph dive seems a bit weird and gives certain rides an unfair advantage.
Why would the pilot be any less able to lift his head in 400mph dive as opposed to level flight at 250mph?
It's not the speed but acceleration that matters here.
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Why would the pilot be any less able to lift his head in 400mph dive as opposed to level flight at 250mph?
It's not the speed but acceleration that matters here.
Yes well the postive G would stop the pilot to do it...but on some planes the view goes so high that the pilot would have to be standing in the cockpit :lol
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Yes well the postive G would stop the pilot to do it...
Yep, acceleration...not speed.
Currently there is some movement between the cockpit and the view point of our virtual pilot but the flight control inputs have to be very abrupt to really see it and even then the movement is very small. Also, a part of the problem is the fact that the guns are aligned to always shoot to the middle of the screen. Having a system like the one in Rise of Flight where the movement is more fluent and pronounced (depends on the setting though) combined with a gun alignment that stays with the plane's 3D model and isn't always in the middle of the screen would change things to the direction which you are suggesting.
Since in AH the requirement is for the gun sight to be in the middle of the screen it causes limitations to the forward view depending on the cockpit layout of the plane in question.
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This varies from plane to plane. The Mossie pilot's view in reality was above the gunsight and then he'd lower his head to look through it.
How should page up be limited fairly?
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This varies from plane to plane. The Mossie pilot's view in reality was above the gunsight and then he'd lower his head to look through it.
How should page up be limited fairly?
Yes. I think there are many planes where most pilots (obviously depends on the pilot's height, seat position, etc) hunched down to have a view through the gun sight.
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Yes. I think there are many planes where most pilots (obviously depends on the pilot's height, seat position, etc) hunched down to have a view through the gun sight.
You can kinda set this up this way with TrackIR. One of my favorite things about TrackIR is the in the cockpit movements. (ie leaning forward and down to zoom in on certain gauges and indicators, or sitting high up and leaning left or right to see over the nose)
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Don't get me wrong I use it all the time but I find that a pilot lifting from his chair in a 400mph dive seems a bit weird and gives certain rides an unfair advantage.
My favorite is that some planes you can use slide your head out of the cockpit left or right going any speed in any maneuver. Lmao!! I'd love to see that in RL. That is one gamey feature.
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"Don't get me wrong I use it all the time but I find that a pilot lifting from his chair in a 400mph dive seems a bit weird and gives certain rides an unfair advantage."
:headscratch:
I always tought at this as pilot put some books on the chair. :old:
:neener:
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My favorite is that some planes you can use slide your head out of the cockpit left or right going any speed in any maneuver. Lmao!! I'd love to see that in RL. That is one gamey feature.
Ya know... I'd be willing to bet it happened more than most of us know. There is a reason fighter pilots use tracers. :aok
I would really like for HTC to offer a "default pilot view" on top of the "default gun sight view". There are very few planes in AH in which the average pilot of average height naturally looked perfectly down the gun sight. If HTC could gave us a hot button for say... 22-24 inches above the seat I'd consider that "average" height from the seat to typical eye level. I just measured mine at I got 28 inches (seat to eye level), but I'm 73in tall, a bit taller than the average pilot of WWII. Heck, HTC could vary it by country because I'm sure the average Japanese pilot was shorter than the average western European pilot. I'd be willing to bet the average Russian and Italian pilots wre smaller than the average US/UK/Aussie pilot as well.
WISH: I wish for HTC to create a "default pilot view" hot button. Let this height be an average of 22-24 above the height of the seat. Have it be a toggle so that we can go in to "gun sight mode" or "pilot view mode".
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I'm not sure I'd make a bet that many pilots in an active dogfight pulled the canopy back and stuck their head out the side of the canopy, lmao. If they did, I WOULD bet it wasn't effective going 300 kts.
That might be a good question for my grandfather. He was an basic aviation and aerial gunnery instructor pilot at Luke Field 1942-43. He's still kickin and lucid at 95.
Edit: BTW I showed him some 1 v 1 films a year or so ago and he laughed and said we do it wrong. Combat maneuvering training was done beginning with a knife-edge pass, canopy to canopy to remove advantages given in the merge. His words, not mine.
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I'm not sure I'd make a bet that many pilots in an active dogfight pulled the canopy back and stuck their head out the side of the canopy, lmao. If they did, I WOULD bet it wasn't effective going 300 kts.
Not to mention the bugs in teeth or bird strikes.... :lol
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In a P47, you simply pull the lever and stand up.
The seat is spring loaded and should rise with you.
Might be more effort than raising a desk chair but not a whole lot more
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I'm not sure I'd make a bet that many pilots in an active dogfight pulled the canopy back and stuck their head out the side of the canopy, lmao. If they did, I WOULD bet it wasn't effective going 300 kts.
That might be a good question for my grandfather. He was an basic aviation and aerial gunnery instructor pilot at Luke Field 1942-43. He's still kickin and lucid at 95.
Edit: BTW I showed him some 1 v 1 films a year or so ago and he laughed and said we do it wrong. Combat maneuvering training was done beginning with a knife-edge pass, canopy to canopy to remove advantages given in the merge. His words, not mine.
That is not what I was referring to. I was speaking more of a player putting his head up against or nearly up against the canopy to the side so he could see around the front of the nose of the plane better, in certain situations I'm sure it occurred, especially while in a pursuit. I also highly doubt as well that a fighter pilot would have poked his head out of the cockpit while in ACM's, save except for the I-16 pilot. ;)
Also, do not think for a minute that the ACM's and "combat" in AH are true reflections of the majority of air to air combat in the real deal WWII. In AH, a P38 would never think about going low n slow with a bunch of zekes in the area, but in the south PTO that is exactly what they did.... and the P38's prevailed. I've read "Fork Tailed Devil: The P38", by Martin Caidin a few different times and reference it quite a bit. The adventures of pilots Bong and McGuire are detailed rather nicely, do what they did in AH and you'll last a very short time thanks to lots of variables not present in the real deal.
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Also, a part of the problem is the fact that the guns are aligned to always shoot to the middle of the screen.
Does this mean that even if you change the position of your gunsight that the guns will still shoot to the center of the HUD? I know some people use page up to raise their pipper in order to facilitate deflection shooting. Any info greatly appreciated!
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My favorite is that some planes you can use slide your head out of the cockpit left or right going any speed in any maneuver. Lmao!! I'd love to see that in RL. That is one gamey feature.
I Know of no planes where you can more your head out side the cockpit.
If there are any please report them in the bug reports.
HiTech
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Ya know... I'd be willing to bet it happened more than most of us know. There is a reason fighter pilots use tracers. :aok
I would really like for HTC to offer a "default pilot view" on top of the "default gun sight view". There are very few planes in AH in which the average pilot of average height naturally looked perfectly down the gun sight. If HTC could gave us a hot button for say... 22-24 inches above the seat I'd consider that "average" height from the seat to typical eye level. I just measured mine at I got 28 inches (seat to eye level), but I'm 73in tall, a bit taller than the average pilot of WWII. Heck, HTC could vary it by country because I'm sure the average Japanese pilot was shorter than the average western European pilot. I'd be willing to bet the average Russian and Italian pilots wre smaller than the average US/UK/Aussie pilot as well.
WISH: I wish for HTC to create a "default pilot view" hot button. Let this height be an average of 22-24 above the height of the seat. Have it be a toggle so that we can go in to "gun sight mode" or "pilot view mode".
You can already have two forward positions. You simply move your default front view up and save it, Then press the forward view direction arrow to look threw the gun sight.
HiTech
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Does this mean that even if you change the position of your gunsight that the guns will still shoot to the center of the HUD? I know some people use page up to raise their pipper in order to facilitate deflection shooting. Any info greatly appreciated!
Yes, the point to which the guns are harmonized at is always in the center of the screen.
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Yep, acceleration...not speed.
Currently there is some movement between the cockpit and the view point of our virtual pilot but the flight control inputs have to be very abrupt to really see it and even then the movement is very small. Also, a part of the problem is the fact that the guns are aligned to always shoot to the middle of the screen. Having a system like the one in Rise of Flight where the movement is more fluent and pronounced (depends on the setting though) combined with a gun alignment that stays with the plane's 3D model and isn't always in the middle of the screen would change things to the direction which you are suggesting.
Since in AH the requirement is for the gun sight to be in the middle of the screen it causes limitations to the forward view depending on the cockpit layout of the plane in question.
Guns are not aligned to shoot to the middle of the screen. They do not in anyway change where they shoot based on your view change.
There is also not any requirement for the gun sight be in the middle of the screen.
HiTech
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Guns are not aligned to shoot to the middle of the screen. They do not in anyway change where they shoot based on your view change.
There is also not any requirement for the gun sight be in the middle of the screen.
HiTech
Thx HT....man that was fast! <S>
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I would love AH to do something about the Gs in a Brewster and the 190.
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Guns are not aligned to shoot to the middle of the screen.
Well I must be missing something then because to my experience, that's what they do. When in the front view, while using snap views (no panning).
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/I-16_zps5eddc171.jpg)
Photobucket triumphs with the jpg-compression again and the hits on the target are hard to see but this is what I meant.
There is also not any requirement for the gun sight be in the middle of the screen.
Ok, I worded that poorly. Gun sights are in the middle of the screen by default.
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I Know of no planes where you can more your head out side the cockpit.
If there are any please report them in the bug reports.
HiTech
Move your head right or left in the spit or 109 series and you're looking right down the left or right side of the front cowling. Other a/c have shortened views as if your head is being stopped by glass.
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Well I must be missing something then because to my experience, that's what they do. When in the front view, while using snap views (no panning).
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/I-16_zps5eddc171.jpg)
Photobucket triumphs with the jpg-compression again and the hits on the target are hard to see but this is what I meant.
Ok, I worded that poorly. Gun sights are in the middle of the screen by default.
indeed thats why you can draw a dot on your screen and use it instead of the actual gunsight. :aok
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Move your head right or left in the spit or 109 series and you're looking right down the left or right side of the front cowling. Other a/c have shortened views as if your head is being stopped by glass.
Can't see anything wrong with the 109...
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/109G_zpsadeaa06e.jpg)
Spitfire had bubble canopy which allows further movement to the side. When moving forward or backward it doesn't really seem to follow the contours of the arced bubble like the view follows the side of the canopy in newer models like the A6Ms but certainly isn't significantly out of place:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/spit_cockpit_zps71e2f6f2.jpg)
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Well I must be missing something then because to my experience, that's what they do. When in the front view, while using snap views (no panning).
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/I-16_zps5eddc171.jpg)
Photobucket triumphs with the jpg-compression again and the hits on the target are hard to see but this is what I meant.
Ok, I worded that poorly. Gun sights are in the middle of the screen by default.
Those circles are each 10 ft Radius. When you move your head,the view of the target it is only moving 1 tenth of a circle radius I.E. guessing about 1 foot movement. The bullets have not moved. Test it, they will land the same place from looking threw the gun sight. or with your head moved.
In fact, press f8 and rotate your view 10 degrees, It then become obvious they are not shooting at the center of the screen.
HiTech
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Can't see anything wrong with the 109...
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/109G_zpsadeaa06e.jpg)
Spitfire had bubble canopy which allows further movement to the side. When moving forward or backward it doesn't really seem to follow the contours of the arced bubble like the view follows the side of the canopy in newer models like the A6Ms but certainly isn't significantly out of place:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f147/Wmaker/spit_cockpit_zps71e2f6f2.jpg)
That isn't what I remember mine looking like. I'm out of town on biz. I'll take screen shots when I get home tomorrow night
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The bullets have not moved. Test it, they will land the same place from looking threw the gun sight. or with your head moved.
This is what I meant. One can aim with a piece of post-it in the middle of the screen.
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This is what I meant. One can aim with a piece of post-it in the middle of the screen.
If you are sighting along a parallel line to the guns. Of course a dot in the center of the screen will be close to where the guns hit.
That is exactly the same as putting a dot in the center of your glasses.
As long as you are looking the same direction as the gun you are holding. You will hit where the dot is, except for the distance offset between your glasses and the gun you are holding.
No way to prevent this, unless you wish to not look straight ahead in the plane?
HiTech
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the typhoon
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lrpAAAfla_c/USUNj72AYvI/AAAAAAAAIFc/ECWr0rdvMd0/s1436/ahss39.jpg)
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If I remember, the 109 view is different while you're inflight than what Wmaker posted. I might be wrong but I never looked at it on the runway....only inflight
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All the pilots in aces high are midgets :P :bolt:
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If you are sighting along a parallel line to the guns. Of course a dot in the center of the screen will be close to where the guns hit.
That is exactly the same as putting a dot in the center of your glasses.
As long as you are looking the same direction as the gun you are holding. You will hit where the dot is, except for the distance offset between your glasses and the gun you are holding.
No way to prevent this, unless you wish to not look straight ahead in the plane?
Yeh, understood.
Just wanted to add that as you said my statement below was of course false word for word:
problem is the fact that the guns are aligned to always shoot to the middle of the screen.
...I was thinking about it too much in the view of the practical result.
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no, his ss of the 109 is accurate.
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If I remember, the 109 view is different while you're inflight than what Wmaker posted. I might be wrong but I never looked at it on the runway....only inflight
Why would it be any different in flight?
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The point and problem as i see it, is the fact the bullets come FROM the center of the cross hair regardless of *forward* head position, aces high has never simulated a true cockpit.
It would change a LOT of things if done correctly.
:bolt:
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The point and problem as i see it, is the fact the bullets come FROM the center of the cross hair regardless of *forward* head position, aces high has never simulated a true cockpit.
It would change a LOT of things if done correctly.
:bolt:
Not being argumentative, but curious about this statement. The way I understand reflector sights, doesn't matter where you are oriented from the sight, if you can see the dot, that's where it's pointing. Is that not so?
Wiley.
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The point and problem as i see it, is the fact the bullets come FROM the center of the cross hair regardless of *forward* head position, aces high has never simulated a true cockpit.
It would change a LOT of things if done correctly.
:bolt:
What do you mean?
The bullets come from the gun positions and the gunsight is matched to that. The small movements you are able to do with your view position is not enough to significantly offset that so it will never really look like they are passing far off center.
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Why would it be any different in flight?
After consulting my squadmates, I withdraw all my statements. My apologies. Carry on.
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The point and problem as i see it, is the fact the bullets come FROM the center of the cross hair regardless of *forward* head position, aces high has never simulated a true cockpit.
You might want to try that before you stat it as fact.
The bullets come from the correct gun positions and converge with correct lob to be central to the sight at the given range.
simple test, up a Hurri 2 with the 12 guns. set convergence to 600, pull up behind a smaller fighter like a yak/i16. Center your cross hairs on his lower tail at 50ft and fire... your bullets will just stream under his wings and not touch him. If they did in-fact generate from one point then snap shots for 12 BBs would always be at convergence. But that is not the case.
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All the pilots in aces high are midgets :P :bolt:
Little people, damnit, LITTLE PEOPLE!
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the typhoon
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-lrpAAAfla_c/USUNj72AYvI/AAAAAAAAIFc/ECWr0rdvMd0/s1436/ahss39.jpg)
I admit it's a stretch, but
(http://christophe.arribat.pagesperso-orange.fr/typhoon-canopy2.jpg)
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What if you're 6'5"?.....
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What if you're 6'5"?.....
My guess is that you wouldn't have been accepted to pilot training in most cases. :)
History of course knows exceptions too tough...
Lieutenant Antti Ilmari "Long-Jim" Joensuu:
(http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/images/joensuu_1.jpg)
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/finland_joensuu.htm (http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/finland_joensuu.htm)
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Not being argumentative, but curious about this statement. The way I understand reflector sights, doesn't matter where you are oriented from the sight, if you can see the dot, that's where it's pointing. Is that not so?
Wiley.
No, you're right. As long as you can see the reflected reticle, the aiming point is correct, regardless of head position. This is of course not true with an iron sight. That improved ease and accuracy of sighting is the reason reflector sights were used.
<S>
Ryno
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My guess is that you wouldn't have been accepted to pilot training in most cases. :)
History of course knows exceptions too tough...
Lieutenant Antti Ilmari "Long-Jim" Joensuu:
(http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/images/joensuu_1.jpg)
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/finland_joensuu.htm (http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/finland_joensuu.htm)
Good read, thanks. Very sad way to go though - seasoned pilot killed in an aircraft crash while riding in the jump seat.