Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: HornetUK on April 07, 2013, 01:00:23 PM
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Hi all,
Well I have finished my first batch of skins for Aces High! Here is a preview of 2 of the 4 skins that I will be submitting this month.
Been a really challenge to get the balance right between what the real aircraft in the Smithsonian (Enola Gay) the only metal B29 I could get loads of high definition images and what the resolution that Aces High can show.
Enola Gay actually shows quite a few rivets and I have tried to show this. I have also tried to add a slight distortion in the surface to stop it looking like an unpainted drinks can.
The Spearhead
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss119.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss122.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss123.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss124.jpg)
T.N.Teeney.II
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss125.jpg)
ADDED AFTER ORIGNIAL POSTING - FUTURE PLANS TO RELEAST TEMPLATE
when I have produced all the skins which I am looking to make I will be making available to all AH Users a template of the above skin one which you can put your own noseart and marking on. These will be available in. PSD file holding a three image files need or for those with out photoshop in another suitable file formate for those with out .
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Krusty will not be pleased.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,322775.0.html
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Oh he is doing the skin as well? Has he started it?
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+10 Awesome. :aok
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its too bright underneath. fix your material file.
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It effects the look of it in the air and effects the other all shine as well
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I was indeed working on that. You seem to have made it to the finish line first.
However your overall quality of your bare metal work needs a lot of revising. It's way too glowingly bright and way too mirror-reflectively clean.
Your metal finish just looks wrong. If you made a decent product out of it I have no problems with somebody beating me to the punch, but it has to actually look decent.
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Well we are all intitled to our own opinion but I would at least of had the manner to have said something slightly more diplomatic about someone first skin
Funny really you should say about decent skins I have thought you had done really rather better on your before you start to be so critical of others work.
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Not bad for a first effort. But, like the others said, your bare metal effect is way over stated. The reflectivity and brightness need to be turned way down. I'd also adjust the contrast of your darker panels: a more subtle change in color and darkness will give a better appearance. I suggest looking at some of the better bare metal skins are done by other skinners, particularly Greebo, Fester, and Cactus. Get an idea of how they do their basic metal work, view their skins in the film viewer with max resolution, but with shadows and other add on updates turned off. There are excellent color photos for reference as to how the color and finish of this aircraft. I would keep making adjustments to your skin until the skin reflects the appearance of the real plane, which at the moment it does not. I see potential for a great skin, but if this is the final product, it is not even mediocre in my book.
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Thanks for your comments, they are apreceated. It odd how opinions differ, I have people on one hand in my squad that have seen bockcar and the like how like the shines ness then there are people who don't. I don't really like the bear metal skins in this game, they just don't look matalic to me they do not look real. Now that is just my opinion. Ther are still many great skins, but not everyone likes every skin. It is all a mater of taste hay. One mans meat is another possion. It has taken me 3 months of development to get to this point. I have made 3 virision and 100's of miner adjustments to get to where I am the skin was a ALOT shinier when I started and it is still developing. Wish we could get the enola gay out in the sun and see how shinny she really is as that is where i got my 100 high def pictures from.
I have submitted my 4 skins but I plan to update them as I discover new tricks. The important things is my squad love it and we plan to fly it together in missions.
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welcome to the frying pan hornet... its called an art critique and its generally non political and very critical. you should take pride in people taking the time to bother it indicates your project could turn out as somthing of merit but that it is still a work in progress that needs more progress.
your blasting krusty for being a no skill hack might indicate you could be a good art critic too. but krusty is also a good art critic regardless of your opinion of his work.
and as for me... i rarely critique anything. and I only use skins from a very small group of skinners that make near photorealistic skins anyway so it dosnt matter to me really.
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It effects the look of it in the air and effects the other all shine as well
then why post pics of it on the runway..post pics of it above cloud layer at 30k then?
and why are the painted sections reflecting a mirror finish?
mask them off with a less glossy finish or somthing.
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however if I end up having to encounter another glowing neon turd like that b17 skin from a while back at 30k because some other player likes to be extra sparkly as i shoot all 3 of their b29s down I will be very angry at that player and make their loss of so many perk points extra quick for blinding me with their unrealistic interpretation of realism.
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Have no problem with critics just can't stand it when negativity is all you get with no encouragement or useful comments.
Oh the painted section are white it is very diffult to get to look white when it is so shinny.
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Have no problem with critics just can't stand it when negativity is all you get with no encouragement or useful comments.
Oh the painted section are white it is very diffult to get to look white when it is so shinny.
cough cut n paste painted layers and make them black in reflection map cough. hard.
what really makes me angry is that unrealistic green block of mountain behind your neon plane though. I'm in the process of sculpting 500 square miles of a main arena terrain and stuff like that makes me more angry than a glowing airplane.
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Lol it does not glow in any way that it will hide anything. You can see it at any angle and see thing that are in front of it. I have tested that. I would never want my skin to be seen as a cheat. I am honest playing person.
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What i don't like is that the reflections are WAY to clear, now im no skinner but from looking a pictures of the enola gay the reflections are the same type of glow but not so clear i mean its no a mirror.
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you do realize you can mask off the painted sections and even have different reflection amounts all over your plane right?
you can even add dirt and make it less reflective... panel lines do not reflect! they are gaps in the plane (very small ones lol).
you can make each panel a slightly different reflection value make oil stains less reflective...
and on top of all that you have BUMP MAPPING... you can even make deformations in the aluminum skin that show up in the reflection with the available tools.
you can even prebake your texturemap with basic light and dark values and even colors like sky and ground...
save the texturemap of the default b17g i made before all this reflectionmap and bumpmap fancy tools were added and everything had to be baked in to create the illusion of reflection.
its an old skin but even with reflections turned off for the crappy computer crowd it suspends your disbelief of portraying what a bare metal b17 looks like.
don't let a failure of imagination stop you... copping out and saying things can't be done because they are difficult when you just have to figure out how to do them separates the really well crafted work from the hobbyists who just enjoy making skins that they and their squad like.
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Wish we could get the enola gay out in the sun and see how shinny she really is as that is where i got my 100 high def pictures from.
Point of advice: Reference pics of restored aircraft are nearly useless. They almost never replicate the actual condition of the wartime aircraft. Yes the bare metal planes had a shine, but they were not mirrors. Realistically, they should be no more reflective than a steak knife.
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Ok chaps so let's go back here a bit , what you saying and I don't know if you have seen her but my aircraft should look more like bockcar restoration which is far more of a mat retalic look rather than Enola gay which is allmost polished metal which looks like it has had one of those polishing wheels go over it!
Ok fester yes I do know you can mask areas off but with the background being so shinny and my b291.bmp file being so light when you do add a different level of madness in the spec sheet it makes it go profoundly gray. I know how to change that.
Hopefully with a reduced shine we will have a reduced perspetion of glow. Ok
So I have submitted 3 skins already, so I guess once they have been acpted and put in the game next month I will be able to update them with the ulterations for the following month? Is that how it works?
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Ok chaps so let's go back here a bit , what you saying and I don't know if you have seen her but my aircraft should look more like bockcar restoration which is far more of a mat retalic look rather than Enola gay which is allmost polished metal which looks like it has had one of those polishing wheels go over it!
Ok fester yes I do know you can mask areas off but with the background being so shinny and my b291.bmp file being so light when you do add a different level of madness in the spec sheet it makes it go profoundly gray. I know how to change that.
Hopefully with a reduced shine we will have a reduced perspetion of glow. Ok
So I have submitted 3 skins already, so I guess once they have been acpted and put in the game next month I will be able to update them with the ulterations for the following month? Is that how it works?
Basically, all war-time aircraft or planes that are flown, in general, will have some wear and tear, dirt, exhaust/oil stains, etc on them.
Wind, dirt, sand, debris all contribute to degrading the finish of even the best and most dutifully maintained aircraft.
The devil is in the details.
Stains around the fuel filler
Scuffs from pilot/ground crew walking on the wing.
Dirt from the wheels on the belly and all around the landing gear area (what kind of dirt? grass field, sandy island dirt, etc?)
Scratches from loading ordinance on the plane.
and on and on and on and on...
Reflections will be different on different parts of the airplane as well. The aluminum will also have developed a patina over time and usage making different parts of the plane shinier than others.
You could spend a month on details alone.
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OK Chaps New images for you, now before you all say something I have not done all the panels on the aircraft just tried to get the over all effect to start with and then blend other part later on.
Tried to reduce the mirror, add more shaddow under aircraft, blend some of the aircraft body panels mask out the top white tip on tail
Yes totally agree about wear and tear done some marks under and over wing still working the rest out.
Everything On
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss124.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss125.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss126.jpg)
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss128.jpg)
With Everything Off
(https://sites.google.com/site/393rdbombsqu/aces-high-forum/ahss131.jpg)
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That looks much better in terms of the reflection, I myself still feel it could use a slight touch of patina. I don't know what kind of service the plane saw so that will be a judgement on your part.
Edit:
Taking a closer look, I can see that it looks like you did add some patina to the skin. I would say go a little heavier on the exhaust stains around the engines since it would have been exposed for such a long period during flight. Otherwise, looking good. :aok
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Problem is that people in my squad think it looks nothing like metal just paint lol
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Looks like metal from where I'm sitting. If you go into the kitchen and rip off a piece of aluminum foil, you will be able to make out a few objects in the reflection but it won't look like a mirror. Even polished metal can only reflect so much, and turtle wax is hard to get on the front lines. :)
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yes but I still do not think that it truly looks like metal, there is something very fake about it at least if there is more of a reflection it looks far more metallic. I think I am just expecting to much from the graphics engine. The are some simulator which really can simulate metallic surfaces to being so realistic they look REAL. But there we go I guess what one should say is that it is a question of a comprises and the individual and your squad feel is the best finish would you not agree?
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So say enola gay the most famous bare metal b-29 of them all, why are you able clearly to see the wing and engines on the aicraft as shows? and this image is after the war.
Plus We must also alow for these being poor images but it is still very clear even with there lack of fine detail
http://vintageairphotos.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/enola-gay-on-tinian.html (http://vintageairphotos.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/enola-gay-on-tinian.html) (click on the image in this to get a better look)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-margie/2988191568/sizes/l/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-margie/2988191568/sizes/l/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/5556188061/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/5556188061/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/5556772210/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/5556772210/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/5556771776/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/5556771776/)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/5556185941/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/target_man_2000/5556185941/)
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yes but I still do not think that it truly looks like metal, there is something very fake about it at least if there is more of a reflection it looks far more metallic. I think I am just expecting to much from the graphics engine. The are some simulator which really can simulate metallic surfaces to being so realistic they look REAL. But there we go I guess what one should say is that it is a question of a comprises and the individual and your squad feel is the best finish would you not agree?
What I would try doing is changing the color of your aluminum on the base bitmap. Find a nice medium gray, the color you chose is much too light. Then, on the upper surfaces tint the your metal blue and green on the undersides. This tinting should be barely noticeable. Then panel by panel adjust the lightness of the metal up or down, this should be more noticeable than the blue/green tinting. This should give the metal a nice, subtle, varied appearance.
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in the last 3 months i have tried loads of process like that sir, thanks for your help but me and my squad like it the way it is really.
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in the last 3 months i have tried loads of process like that sir, thanks for your help but me and my squad like it the way it is really.
Well then I am really confused, now.
Problem is that people in my squad think it looks nothing like metal just paint lol
:headscratch:
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Well I have listen to what you all have to say but I think I will go the way I have made it thanks all for your comments
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Your squad isn't who decides if it is used in game or not. No offence or anything.
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Well that it rather obvious Of course aces high make the decision but it is upto me what I submit and my own interpretation, it really what my personal taste isn't it.
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Well that it rather obvious Of course aces high make the decision but it is upto me what I submit and my own interpretation, it really what my personal taste isn't it.
Sir, good luck. I know nothing about making skins. I know a little bit about people.
If you are actually preparing a skin for use in the game, you might want to listen and heed the advice of those who have been doing it for years.
Yes, it is your decision, but your "personal chice" may preclude the final skin for use.
It seems you have started with a goal of a skin that you will see flying while you and your squad enjoy it's use and then you seem to have taken artistic criticism to be personal and now you are going to do it the way you want to do it no matter if is "correct" or not.
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Sir, good luck. I know nothing about making skins. I know a little bit about people.
If you are actually preparing a skin for use in the game, you might want to listen and heed the advice of those who have been doing it for years.
Yes, it is your decision, but your "personal chice" may preclude the final skin for use.
It seems you have started with a goal of a skin that you will see flying while you and your squad enjoy it's use and then you seem to have taken artistic criticism to be personal and now you are going to do it the way you want to do it no matter if is "correct" or not.
This
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I do not think any of the B29s are realistically skinned. The base is too bright and the highlights too expansive. The rivet lines are usually too large, oversized, and poorly placed. I don't know if the techniques used to create the models are anything like production animation, but it seems like the skins are 'baked' on low res work. In production animation there is usually a higher resolution model with denser details, so that the details don't have to be painted on. Since you do not have that luxury you need to take extra care to get the colors spot on to begin with, or it will really stray from the expected values during color reduction.
Hornet, flat aluminum usually has a color value of around 145 in each RGB channel. I have not played much with skins or I might suggest how to fix the reflectivity as well. I did some playing around with skins here and when I asked about the color reduction method everyone sort of indicated that they do what they do because that's what we have. So, basically everyone draws on the knowledge of the others around them. Best to just take the criticism as it is, because helpful suggestions don't come up very often that I've seen. Everyone loves to be negative instead.
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When I first started skinning I skinned in double resolution and then resized the bmp, but it didn't really add anything to the skin and it made panel lines and rivets look a blurry mess, so now I just skin in the native resolution. I'd guess we would need something like 10,000 by 10,000 pixel sized skins to get anything that would come close to passing for real.
Hornet don't get too discouraged by the criticism we need more skinners in here and the negativity can be a bit off putting. The basic skin looks really good. To me the second lot of screenshots you posted looks a lot more realistic, but in the end it is your skin so just go with what you feel happy with. One suggestion I would make is to use the spec map to make the painted areas of the skin and possibly the exhaust stained areas on the wings look a lot less glossy than the metal areas. The contrast between a bright highlight running along the fuselage that then becomes a lot duller as it runs over the painted bits is a powerful effect that really adds to the illusion of it being bare metal. It looks like you may have done that to an extent but maybe ramp the effect up a bit more.
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When I first started skinning I skinned in double resolution and then resized the bmp, but it didn't really add anything to the skin and it made panel lines and rivets look a blurry mess, so now I just skin in the native resolution. I'd guess we would need something like 10,000 by 10,000 pixel sized skins to get anything that would come close to passing for real.
Just to be clear, what I mentioned is the model being more detailed, rather than the skins. Animation houses use low res models during the render process, but with the unwrapped skin from a very highly detailed model of the same object (UV_unwrap if you will). That results in a model that appears to have more detail built in, but that renders at greatly enhanced speed. Then, if they need close up views they go to the detailed model, but in a game you don't have to do that, ever.
Painting textures the way you are (custom brushes, and so on) is great up to a point, but very high resolution photos will always improve appearances over paint. The only thing is you have to be very careful on color reductions. This is the argument I ran into the last time I brought the subject up, and I was told it won't work. Yet, I know it works, since I have already seen it work.
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Chalenge : yes I can agree with that but on the other hand I have not seen any aircraft in there that I would truly describe as metallic. Also agree with the hi def images well i have been using them have 100 and am getting as close as i can under the texture we have in this game. I think we would need instead of 2048 to make it double or even three times more to get the correct level of detail
This is my very first skin It has taken me 3 months to get this help apart from a little help with bumpmat and materials files and one or two words about the bumpmat control file I have worked this out all myself. This is version 2.5 which really adds up to an evolution of 3 skins as for this skin I am about 70% happy with it. It is not the finished article as in it is the last version I will ever submit it is one I can get in the game with my squad and work on with them.
Greebo : Thanks for your kind words and you help with the info I needed in the past. Don't worry I am not put off at all. She is my creation and like everything new people start doing it takes time to learn and create what could be considered perfection. :x I just hope that Aces High will take in into the game and then I will know I can proceed with it development. :airplane:
Having said that all my brother who own a company that producer of software that creates special effects for films and the such. oh you know the same sort of thing that the company call "industrial light and magic" did in star wars. he said to me considering the Sim you are using it not half bad, not perfect but not half bad. so I take great heart that.
I guess what anyone says beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So I like where she is now and she will look totally different in the next update if I get it in the game. We will have to see on that Greebo