Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: MaSonZ on April 09, 2013, 11:24:01 AM

Title: Windows 8
Post by: MaSonZ on April 09, 2013, 11:24:01 AM
Playing around with my moms laptop, which has windows 8. Dont mind it, but I still dont "like" it. Would i use it daily to use it? no. but I did notice something that got me wondering.... Went to set up an account on me for the laptop so I dont need to be on her account, when i set it up it said the laptop had to be refreshed.... brand new, barely used. why would windows 8 need a refresh to add a new user account?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Bino on April 09, 2013, 03:11:46 PM
Define "refresh" ?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MaSonZ on April 09, 2013, 08:04:48 PM
Define "refresh" ?

more or less...a factory reset but no user accounts will be affected
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Mano on April 18, 2013, 09:39:09 AM
Don't do refresh. It will remove all apps it thinks are conflicting with Win8. Then you have the task of reinstalling them again one by one. I formatted my HD and reinstalled Win 7. Win 8 is/was not ready for release yet. It has bugs and crashes frequently.

My two cents.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on April 19, 2013, 02:34:34 AM
Don't do refresh. It will remove all apps it thinks are conflicting with Win8. Then you have the task of reinstalling them again one by one. I formatted my HD and reinstalled Win 7. Win 8 is/was not ready for release yet. It has bugs and crashes frequently.

My two cents.

More likely you ran Windows8 on hardware that's not compatible. Did you do the compatibility test before installing? Win8 is dead stable.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Skuzzy on April 19, 2013, 06:40:18 AM
More likely you ran Windows8 on hardware that's not compatible. Did you do the compatibility test before installing? Win8 is dead stable.

Depends on what you call stable.  I have run into several things that are either broken or Microsoft decided to remove the functionality from what was in Windows 7.  

Example, Windows 8 does not remember what Control Panel setting you chose to view in, like all previous versions of Windows did.  Bug, or removed functionality?  Either way, it is idiotic that such things would happen.

I have had a lot of problems installing drivers, for recent hardware.  Having to do it the old fashion way by manually unpacking cab files and having Windows 8 search the drive so the drivers could be installed.  These are compatibility problems with the binaries packaged by the manufacturer.  They work fine with Windows XP or Windows 7.

If your hardware is less than a year old, then you may not run into these driver issues.  Basically, look for explicit Windows 8 driver support from the manufacturer, because even though Windows 7 drivers are used for most things in Windows 8, the installers will not run unless they are specifically made for Windows 8 for many pieces of hardware.

Intel gave up trying to produce installers for Windows 8.  They just package a self-extracting zip file with instructions on how to install the motherboard drivers manually.  If it is not built into Windows 8 (none of the LGA775 motherboard chipset drivers are), you will need to do it manually.  While Windows 7 would run stable without the motherboard drivers, failure to install those drivers in Windows 8 will result in a very unstable system.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on April 19, 2013, 07:17:33 AM
Depends on what you call stable.  I have run into several things that are either broken or Microsoft decided to remove the functionality from what was in Windows 7.  

Example, Windows 8 does not remember what Control Panel setting you chose to view in, like all previous versions of Windows did.  Bug, or removed functionality?  Either way, it is idiotic that such things would happen.

I have had a lot of problems installing drivers, for recent hardware.  Having to do it the old fashion way by manually unpacking cab files and having Windows 8 search the drive so the drivers could be installed.  These are compatibility problems with the binaries packaged by the manufacturer.  They work fine with Windows XP or Windows 7.

If your hardware is less than a year old, then you may not run into these driver issues.  Basically, look for explicit Windows 8 driver support from the manufacturer, because even though Windows 7 drivers are used for most things in Windows 8, the installers will not run unless they are specifically made for Windows 8 for many pieces of hardware.

Intel gave up trying to produce installers for Windows 8.  They just package a self-extracting zip file with instructions on how to install the motherboard drivers manually.  If it is not built into Windows 8 (none of the LGA775 motherboard chipset drivers are), you will need to do it manually.  While Windows 7 would run stable without the motherboard drivers, failure to install those drivers in Windows 8 will result in a very unstable system.

I've always been against installing new operating systems on legacy hardware. Old hardware works best with old OS versions and vice versa.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Skuzzy on April 19, 2013, 10:04:07 AM
I've always been against installing new operating systems on legacy hardware. Old hardware works best with old OS versions and vice versa.

What do you consider old?  1 year, 2 years?  LGA 775 CPU's were still being shipped in 2012 and you have to know what you are doing to get Windows 8 to run on them, in a stable manner.  Windows 7 works fine with those systems.  You rarely have to worry about the Intel chipset drivers with Windows 7.  Even old P35 chipsets work fine.  Now, I am not saying Windows 7 is perfect.  It is not.  It still has issues.

Allowing Microsoft to take control of the obsolescence of the operating system and the hardware is one of many reasons I refuse to support Windows 8, or anything later from Microsoft.

Even the latest versions of Linux run great on Pentium 3 systems.  As of this minute Linux supports more hardware, out of the box, than Windows does.  That is the first step to taking market share away from Microsoft.  It cannot happen soon enough for me.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: gyrene81 on April 19, 2013, 10:39:13 AM
apple did the same thing with osx skuzzy...and the move from their proprietary hardware platform to the intel base made them more popular than ever. i guess it's all in the way the company goes about it. just think what would have happened if microsoft had done the same thing, they still might but, considering the company history it's very doubtful.

personally, i'm really hoping linux takes over the market, soon. it can be frustrating dealing with the bugs and constant flow of updates that some distros have but, there is so much flexibility built in that you can overlook most of the drawbacks.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Skuzzy on April 19, 2013, 11:04:41 AM
I am not an advocate of an operating system supporting all the hardware that was ever made, but to drop support for hardware that is still relevant is pretty disturbing to me.

Apple has always had that model.  Apple users have been bred to understand they have to purchase new hardware to get a new operating system.  Windows users have enjoyed being able to update the operating system independently of the hardware, until now.

So Microsoft is taking another page out of Apple's playbook.  Not surprising.  Personally, I do not support Apple for that choice, and I will stop supporting Microsoft for the same reason (and many others).
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on April 20, 2013, 01:56:29 AM
I am not an advocate of an operating system supporting all the hardware that was ever made, but to drop support for hardware that is still relevant is pretty disturbing to me.

Apple has always had that model.  Apple users have been bred to understand they have to purchase new hardware to get a new operating system.  Windows users have enjoyed being able to update the operating system independently of the hardware, until now.

So Microsoft is taking another page out of Apple's playbook.  Not surprising.  Personally, I do not support Apple for that choice, and I will stop supporting Microsoft for the same reason (and many others).

I don't get all the drama. For older hardware there are the older OS versions. It's pointless to install the latest OS to end-of-life hardware. Usually that leads to nothing but sub-par user experience.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Skuzzy on April 20, 2013, 07:00:07 AM
I don't get all the drama. For older hardware there are the older OS versions. It's pointless to install the latest OS to end-of-life hardware. Usually that leads to nothing but sub-par user experience.

What drama?

I get you are fine with arbitrarily being forced to upgrade hardware.

About that bad user experience.  Don't tell my 256MB/Pentium 3 file, WEB, print, scanner, media, router, and firewall server that it should be providing me a bad experience running the latest version of Linux.

I know you would replace the computer with several pieces of brand new hardware, but that does not take away from the fact that the old hardware can do the job really well.  Could I do it with the original version of Linux?  Not without a lot of kernel hacking.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on April 20, 2013, 07:49:04 AM
What drama?

I get you are fine with arbitrarily being forced to upgrade hardware.

About that bad user experience.  Don't tell my 256MB/Pentium 3 file, WEB, print, scanner, media, router, and firewall server that it should be providing me a bad experience running the latest version of Linux.

I know you would replace the computer with several pieces of brand new hardware, but that does not take away from the fact that the old hardware can do the job really well.  Could I do it with the original version of Linux?  Not without a lot of kernel hacking.

Lol I have a AMD K6 based openSuSe server running as we speak. I think it has an uptime of 1200 days or so. It's made from parts I found lying around, literally. I don't see how I would be forced to do any upgrades whatsoever. What forces you to install Win8 in the first place? This is what I was wondering - you write like you're somehow obliged to update. If I have some old hardware I'm going to either run it on the original OS it was intended for or switch it to linux.

The only thing that forces me to do upgrades is the constant increase in hardware requirements on games. We have several gaming PC:s in our family and the bottom line one which I just upgraded struggled to run BF3 at popular maps. I don't use the machine too often but decided to upgrade it anyway. I'm going to donate the old C2D cpu + mobo + ram + hdd combo to some family member / relative for a second life at non-gaming use. My previous upgrade found a new life as a web computer for my parents upstairs computer room. It runs Xubuntu as their new laptop does. Got tired to being asked every other week to clean the computer from viruses or malware :)

My mother protested very strongly when I told them I'm going to migrate them to linux - but after a couple of months they got used to it and continue to be linux users for several years already. When we visited our relatives in Croatia I could see my step father was clearly proud on running linux on his laptop. Actually I spent a part of my vacation installing linuxes to the islanders after they saw it in action!
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Mano on May 09, 2013, 07:40:22 PM
Forbes:The Windows 8 Flop: What Does It Mean For Microsoft?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/05/09/the-windows-8-flop-what-does-it-mean-for-microsoft/?partner=yahootix (http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/05/09/the-windows-8-flop-what-does-it-mean-for-microsoft/?partner=yahootix)


 :headscratch:


It means Windows 9 will be coming soon.


 :salute
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 09, 2013, 11:59:18 PM
Forbes:The Windows 8 Flop: What Does It Mean For Microsoft?


http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/05/09/the-windows-8-flop-what-does-it-mean-for-microsoft/?partner=yahootix (http://www.forbes.com/sites/moneybuilder/2013/05/09/the-windows-8-flop-what-does-it-mean-for-microsoft/?partner=yahootix)


 :headscratch:


It means Windows 9 will be coming soon.


 :salute

Windows codename blue is scheduled to release at the normally planned pace which is currently 1 new version every year. The devs have reported that they've heard feedback on the UI and possibly will return the start menu along with the possibility to boot to desktop. But no official confirmation of anything yet.

This video is proof that Windows8 is the best...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRlP45jEBg0
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: guncrasher on May 10, 2013, 02:36:33 AM
Windows codename blue is scheduled to release at the normally planned pace which is currently 1 new version every year. The devs have reported that they've heard feedback on the UI and possibly will return the start menu along with the possibility to boot to desktop. But no official confirmation of anything yet.

This video is proof that Windows8 is the best...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRlP45jEBg0

in the same video i also saw the numbers for the mega lottery,  I am rich  :x :x :x :x.


semp
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Mano on May 14, 2013, 02:06:29 PM
Wall Street Journal



"You can make an old man cry."



http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/05/07/windows-8-you-make-an-old-man-cry/?KEYWORDS=windows8+make+an+old+man+cry (http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/05/07/windows-8-you-make-an-old-man-cry/?KEYWORDS=windows8+make+an+old+man+cry)



 :headscratch:
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Hajo on May 19, 2013, 09:55:27 AM
In a post in tech support a few months back I explained I was having trouble with the USB side of windows 8 getting my USB CH controllers working.

I had to download and install Control Manager for win7 to get windows8 to recognize my USB controllers.  I thought when I did that and got my controllers

working the problem was solved.  It wasn't.  A week ago I turned my PC on and there was no pointer for my USB mouse.  My functions for the controllers

were also gone.  Had to do a refresh of the system (second one on the win8 system in 2 and one half months)  and lost some of my info and programs to boot.

Conclusion.  Don't use Win8.  It is unusable unless you only get email and surf the web.  It is not an operating system but an accessory based system.  When I have patience again

I'll attempt to get my CH stuff up and running.  Right now I am disgusted.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 19, 2013, 12:42:50 PM
In a post in tech support a few months back I explained I was having trouble with the USB side of windows 8 getting my USB CH controllers working.

I had to download and install Control Manager for win7 to get windows8 to recognize my USB controllers.  I thought when I did that and got my controllers

working the problem was solved.  It wasn't.  A week ago I turned my PC on and there was no pointer for my USB mouse.  My functions for the controllers

were also gone.  Had to do a refresh of the system (second one on the win8 system in 2 and one half months)  and lost some of my info and programs to boot.

Conclusion.  Don't use Win8.  It is unusable unless you only get email and surf the web.  It is not an operating system but an accessory based system.  When I have patience again

I'll attempt to get my CH stuff up and running.  Right now I am disgusted.

Conclusion: CH Windows 8 support is nonexistant and people who use other hardware have no problems.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Hajo on May 19, 2013, 03:53:51 PM
Conclusion: CH Windows 8 support is nonexistant and people who use other hardware have no problems.

I lost the USB mouse first.  Couldn't get off the screen after typing in my password.  Had to do a refresh at that point.

No mouse to click on any selection.  That has nothing to do with the CH stuff.  System lost the mouse somewhere.  <shrugz>

Had to start in safe mode where the mouse did work....go figure? 

Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: guncrasher on May 19, 2013, 05:04:20 PM
why is win8 afraid of win7? Because seven eight nine.



semp
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 20, 2013, 12:18:21 AM
I lost the USB mouse first.  Couldn't get off the screen after typing in my password.  Had to do a refresh at that point.

No mouse to click on any selection.  That has nothing to do with the CH stuff.  System lost the mouse somewhere.  <shrugz>

Had to start in safe mode where the mouse did work....go figure? 



You installed the CH usb control manager which messed up your windows. Contact CH for updated Windows8 software.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: guncrasher on May 20, 2013, 03:32:55 AM
You installed the CH usb control manager which messed up your windows. Contact CH for updated Windows8 software.

i installed ch ccontrol manager severalttimes, it has yet to mess up my windows 7.  contact Newegg and have them send you a copy of  windows 7 before they run out.


seml
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 20, 2013, 11:23:35 AM
i installed ch ccontrol manager severalttimes, it has yet to mess up my windows 7.  contact Newegg and have them send you a copy of  windows 7 before they run out.


seml

You need to understand that it's CH not having proper support for Win8 and not the other way around.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: wrench on May 20, 2013, 07:41:16 PM
windows 8 - ms sold it to me cheap $39 each for 2 Win8Pro upgrade discs. Now I know why. First install went fine...or so I thought until the dvd drive disappeared. Now I know my way around computer h/w & s/w and this was frustrating. The h/w is only a year old. Complete clean and re-install produced the same results. Search on the net and this has happened to many people. The recommended solutions didn't make sense and didn't work. It wasn't worth the trouble to figure out why. This alone convinced me to put Win8 back on the shelf where it still is.

Put win 7 pro 64 back on that computer and it works fine. I do not recommend Win 8 to anybody.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: guncrasher on May 20, 2013, 09:48:24 PM
You need to understand that it's CH not having proper support for Win8 and not the other way around.

generic drivers?



semp
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 20, 2013, 10:03:37 PM
generic drivers?



semp

In this case the user messed up his Win8 installation by installing an incompatible version of the CH control panel.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 20, 2013, 10:08:09 PM
windows 8 - ms sold it to me cheap $39 each for 2 Win8Pro upgrade discs. Now I know why. First install went fine...or so I thought until the dvd drive disappeared. Now I know my way around computer h/w & s/w and this was frustrating. The h/w is only a year old. Complete clean and re-install produced the same results. Search on the net and this has happened to many people. The recommended solutions didn't make sense and didn't work. It wasn't worth the trouble to figure out why. This alone convinced me to put Win8 back on the shelf where it still is.

Put win 7 pro 64 back on that computer and it works fine. I do not recommend Win 8 to anybody.

There was indeed a bug affecting a small portion of users which could be fixed by opening a command prompt with admin rights and copypasting "reg.exe add "HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\atapi\Controller0" /f /v EnumDevice1 /t REG_DWORD /d 0x00000001" into the command line and then pressing Enter.

With your logic, anyone who ever had a problem with AH2 should now run around spreading 'gospel' about how they should just stick to WB.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: guncrasher on May 21, 2013, 12:27:06 AM
In this case the user messed up his Win8 installation by installing an incompatible version of the CH control panel.

wow it is that easy to mess up win 8.



semp
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: wrench on May 21, 2013, 04:07:28 AM
With your logic, anyone who ever had a problem with AH2 should now run around spreading 'gospel' about how they should just stick to WB.

Wow AH is awesome compared to WB. I would never have done that!
As for my logic...well....I was not impressed with windows 8 which I suppose might be more of an opinion than logic. I felt the time and effort trade off was not worth using win8 when win7 worked just fine. IMHO WB does not work fine and making AH work IS worth the time and effort.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 21, 2013, 11:03:55 AM
wow it is that easy to mess up win 8.



semp

It's as easy to mess up any version of windows. You should try to perk your comments a little, they're not very useful.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: ACE on May 21, 2013, 11:26:23 AM
Regardless win 8 shouldn't have that problem.  Thats the point. 
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: guncrasher on May 21, 2013, 11:31:48 AM
It's as easy to mess up any version of windows. You should try to perk your comments a little, they're not very useful.


Conclusion: CH Windows 8 support is nonexistant and people who use other hardware have no problems.

semp
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 21, 2013, 11:40:11 AM

semp

You should really try to understand the issue at hand and refrain from posting untill you do. Repeat: It is not Win8's fault if CH software is not compatible with it. Period.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: guncrasher on May 21, 2013, 12:16:55 PM
You should really try to understand the issue at hand and refrain from posting untill you do. Repeat: It is not Win8's fault if CH software is not compatible with it. Period.

you ever notice that whenever there's a problem that it is never win8's fault?  at least according to you. the problem is not that software is not compatible with win8 but rather win8 is not compatible with a lot of software.  we could understand if it was some stuff from win 3.1 but damn.

but anyway the conclusion that he came up with is still valid.  why "upgrade" to win8 when it is a hassle rather than stay with win7.  right now if there's a problem with any new drivers the easy solution is to roll back to a previous stable version.  you dont sit around and wait for the drivers to be fixed since you want to use your stuff now.  so why should "rolling back" your os to a previous stable version that worked for you be any different?

we as consumers dont really have any saying in what companies do other than to vote with our wallets.  if a piece of hardware or software doesnt work for you then you dont buy it period.  you cant tell people that it "isnt the software/hardware's fault" and you must buy it and stick with it anyway.  to us it doesnt really matter the why or who is responsible for doing what.  all we care about is if it works and if it has any use for us.

semp
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 21, 2013, 03:49:06 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Skuzzy on May 21, 2013, 04:11:30 PM
Microsoft created a number of compatibility problems they did not bother telling people about.  Whether it is a bug in Windows 8 that created the compatibility problem or a conscious decision to break something is what no one knows, at this time.

No company should be held accountable when they are blind sided in the manner Microsoft has done to many companies.  It is not up to the application/driver to maintain compatibility with an operating system.  If the operating system is going to be changed in such a manner it will not be backward compatible, then it is up to Microsoft to let everyone know.

In forums all over the Internet people claim Windows 7 drivers are compatible with Windows 8.  Microsoft, also claims the same driver SDK can be used to create drivers for Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.  So when a driver works with Vista and Windows 7 but does not work with Windows 8, then something is amiss.

I have read the SDK documentation and cannot find where a driver for Windows 7 should not work with Windows 8.  It is quite possible to create a driver which would not work with Windows 7, and run on Windows 8, but the documentation suggests the reverse should not be possible.

All that said, Microsoft did rehash the USB driver layer in Windows 8 and they did introduce some issues into it.  They have those documented.  In some cases the problems cannot be worked around to get a device working.  Most of it occurs at device enumeration time.  Whether CH is a victim of this, I cannot say.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 21, 2013, 09:58:46 PM
Microsoft created a number of compatibility problems they did not bother telling people about.  Whether it is a bug in Windows 8 that created the compatibility problem or a conscious decision to break something is what no one knows, at this time.

No company should be held accountable when they are blind sided in the manner Microsoft has done to many companies.  It is not up to the application/driver to maintain compatibility with an operating system.  If the operating system is going to be changed in such a manner it will not be backward compatible, then it is up to Microsoft to let everyone know.

In forums all over the Internet people claim Windows 7 drivers are compatible with Windows 8.  Microsoft, also claims the same driver SDK can be used to create drivers for Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8.  So when a driver works with Vista and Windows 7 but does not work with Windows 8, then something is amiss.

I have read the SDK documentation and cannot find where a driver for Windows 7 should not work with Windows 8.  It is quite possible to create a driver which would not work with Windows 7, and run on Windows 8, but the documentation suggests the reverse should not be possible.

All that said, Microsoft did rehash the USB driver layer in Windows 8 and they did introduce some issues into it.  They have those documented.  In some cases the problems cannot be worked around to get a device working.  Most of it occurs at device enumeration time.  Whether CH is a victim of this, I cannot say.

LOL Skuzzy are you joking? All the developers had multiple months to test their applications and drivers on Win8 before its official release. Nobody was blindsided. If compatibility problems came as a surprise it's because application / driver makers weren't doing their compatibility testing as they should. The first thing I did was run Win8 earlyest release version and test it against our software. We hit zero problems.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Bizman on May 22, 2013, 01:54:41 AM
LOL Skuzzy are you joking? All the developers had multiple months to test their applications and drivers on Win8 before its official release. Nobody was blindsided. If compatibility problems came as a surprise it's because application / driver makers weren't doing their compatibility testing as they should. The first thing I did was run Win8 earlyest release version and test it against our software. We hit zero problems.
Compatibility testing and any freshly released Microsoft OS in the same chapter is hilarious! I have always been in the belief that the final compatibility testing is made by the end users. No company can afford the time and computers to cover every possible compilation of hardware, ever. Beta testing is being used to minimize issues, but even that doesn't cover every possibility. Not to mention hardware that hasn't been released yet.

As you've sometimes mentioned, you or someone else has installed Win8 into an older PC without problems. That doesn't mean it would be equally compatible with any rig of the same age or newer, not to mention the affects of adding any kind of a card. Even with current hardware the variables are too numerous to cover. How would the <special technology> of a <brand A> mobo mix with the <enhanced gizmo> of a <brand B> video card? Does adding <brandC> <ultimate> RAM interfere with either of the two? A gazillion possible variations of the theme, who will do the compatibility testing? Right. The end user.
 
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 22, 2013, 05:34:54 AM
Compatibility testing and any freshly released Microsoft OS in the same chapter is hilarious! I have always been in the belief that the final compatibility testing is made by the end users. No company can afford the time and computers to cover every possible compilation of hardware, ever. Beta testing is being used to minimize issues, but even that doesn't cover every possibility. Not to mention hardware that hasn't been released yet.

As you've sometimes mentioned, you or someone else has installed Win8 into an older PC without problems. That doesn't mean it would be equally compatible with any rig of the same age or newer, not to mention the affects of adding any kind of a card. Even with current hardware the variables are too numerous to cover. How would the <special technology> of a <brand A> mobo mix with the <enhanced gizmo> of a <brand B> video card? Does adding <brandC> <ultimate> RAM interfere with either of the two? A gazillion possible variations of the theme, who will do the compatibility testing? Right. The end user.
 

There is no need to test most softwares for hardware combinations, especially when the alternating factor in this case is the OS libraries. As long as the product works with the new OS in basic configuration it's as likely to work in it as it was in the older OS version (the variations with hardware are the same).

Things get tricky when people install all sorts of AVs etc. on the machines which make the end result very unpredictable as they hijack processes and whatnot. But basic compatibility against OS versions can and should be checked. Apparently CH failed to do that.

- Or this is a case of a typical loud, singular disappointed end user whose problems may relate to 3rd party software installations instead of actual problems with CH and Win8. Haven't yet heard any other CH+Win8 users chime in on the whine.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Skuzzy on May 22, 2013, 06:15:15 AM
LOL Skuzzy are you joking? All the developers had multiple months to test their applications and drivers on Win8 before its official release. Nobody was blindsided. If compatibility problems came as a surprise it's because application / driver makers weren't doing their compatibility testing as they should. The first thing I did was run Win8 earlyest release version and test it against our software. We hit zero problems.

The compatibility problems introduced in Windows 8 were NOT discovered until Microsoft shipped it.

No,  I am not joking.  I actually spent the time following the driver SDK through all its stages.  Initially, Microsoft insisted that Windows 7 and Vista drivers were 100% compatible with Windows 8.  It was not until approximately 3 months after Windows 8 shipped did they discover the problems with the USB driver API.  It is a bug in Windows 8.

Does it impact CH?  I have no idea.  It seems to be very random in what hardware is impacted, but the manifestation is the same.  The hardware fails to initialize when the bug is hit.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 22, 2013, 02:11:45 PM
The compatibility problems introduced in Windows 8 were NOT discovered until Microsoft shipped it.

No,  I am not joking.  I actually spent the time following the driver SDK through all its stages.  Initially, Microsoft insisted that Windows 7 and Vista drivers were 100% compatible with Windows 8.  It was not until approximately 3 months after Windows 8 shipped did they discover the problems with the USB driver API.  It is a bug in Windows 8.

Does it impact CH?  I have no idea.  It seems to be very random in what hardware is impacted, but the manifestation is the same.  The hardware fails to initialize when the bug is hit.

So are you saying the bug appeared after Windows8 had spent close to a year in open beta and before that in closed beta? Was the problem due to a change made at release time?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Skuzzy on May 22, 2013, 03:02:55 PM
So are you saying the bug appeared after Windows8 had spent close to a year in open beta and before that in closed beta? Was the problem due to a change made at release time?

Microsoft made a change to the USB API early on.  Presumably (they never really said, which is normal for them), it was to correct the problem that surfaced with Windows 7 64 bit concerning the low power condition, on the USB bus, which caused a flood of DEVICE_CHANGE_NOTIFICATION messages to be sent to any application listening for those messages.  Usually crashing the application in the process.

That problem no longer seems to exist, which is why I am speculating that is what the change was for.  It very well could be there are low power USB buses that are sensitive to the change and the power levels are low enough that Windows 8 is simply never getting any notifications at all.  Again, that is speculation on my part, but it does fit with the logic that might have been applied.

As to why it took so long for it to show up, I could only speculate.  Microsoft never said it changed anything, after its initial change, but then suddenly the problems appeared.  Sufficient enough they put in warnings about it in the driver SDK.  No fix has been forthcoming yet.  I can only assume they have not come to terms with a solution.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Hajo on May 23, 2013, 08:20:20 PM
After unplugging my ch equipment I uninstalled Control Manager.  When rebooting my PC In control panel listed as my game controllers were the ch usb fighterstick, throttle and pro pedals.

I could not get them to respond at all in windows8 even though they were recognized.  I then did trouble shooting and had windows look at the USB drivers and search for a better driver.

Windows told me the drivers were fine on each controller and I did not need a different driver.  According to windows8 my gear is working fine.  <shrugz>  I give up.

After my mouse Icon disappeared on start up (usb mouse) I'm at a loss.  Called ASUS about the problem....their answer....do a system restore.  That didn't help either.

I have no idea at this point that even in ch had a windows8 driver....would it work?  USB is fudged.  I'd happily backup to windowsXP but due to the fact it probably wouldn't recognize

the MB chipset drivers or video since ASUS didn't provide a MB chipset driver...I'm pooched.  I do have a video driver disk....nothing about windows8.  Wonder if XP could handle the

vid cards?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 24, 2013, 12:18:43 AM
After unplugging my ch equipment I uninstalled Control Manager.  When rebooting my PC In control panel listed as my game controllers were the ch usb fighterstick, throttle and pro pedals.

I could not get them to respond at all in windows8 even though they were recognized.  I then did trouble shooting and had windows look at the USB drivers and search for a better driver.

Windows told me the drivers were fine on each controller and I did not need a different driver.  According to windows8 my gear is working fine.  <shrugz>  I give up.

After my mouse Icon disappeared on start up (usb mouse) I'm at a loss.  Called ASUS about the problem....their answer....do a system restore.  That didn't help either.

I have no idea at this point that even in ch had a windows8 driver....would it work?  USB is fudged.  I'd happily backup to windowsXP but due to the fact it probably wouldn't recognize

the MB chipset drivers or video since ASUS didn't provide a MB chipset driver...I'm pooched.  I do have a video driver disk....nothing about windows8.  Wonder if XP could handle the

vid cards?


Why XP? It's no longer supported. Switch to Win7.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Skuzzy on May 24, 2013, 06:38:35 AM
Hajo, are you running an externally powered USB hub?  Or is your gear plugged directly into a USB port on the computer?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 24, 2013, 07:09:40 AM
Hajo, are you running an externally powered USB hub?  Or is your gear plugged directly into a USB port on the computer?

And if you're running an external hub (which would negate the chance of a typical problem of motherboard not being able to supply enough juice to the USB ports to which I think Skuzzy is referring to), have you tried plugging the sticks directly to the computer? I've seen hubs go bad.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Hajo on May 24, 2013, 07:36:56 PM
I am running a powered USB Hub that is recognized as a powered USB Hub by windows8.

I also have disabled Windows from powering down the USB devices if it detects no usage.

Just in case I am going to purchase a new powered Hub.  My Ch gear is connected to that powered Hub

as is my USB mouse which was connected to the PC.  When I lost the mouse icon I moved the

mouse to the powered hub from the pc.  Even when moving the mouse to the powered hub it

did no good, the icon (pointer) was still gone.  At that point ASUS suggested I refresh the system.

After the refresh the mouse worked well.  The only time the mouse would show up was in F2/Delete

previous to the refresh.  <shrugz>.  I could get to the BIOS and the mouse was functioning

if I wanted to make system changes.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 25, 2013, 01:53:22 AM
I am running a powered USB Hub that is recognized as a powered USB Hub by windows8.

I also have disabled Windows from powering down the USB devices if it detects no usage.

Just in case I am going to purchase a new powered Hub.  My Ch gear is connected to that powered Hub

as is my USB mouse which was connected to the PC.  When I lost the mouse icon I moved the

mouse to the powered hub from the pc.  Even when moving the mouse to the powered hub it

did no good, the icon (pointer) was still gone.  At that point ASUS suggested I refresh the system.

After the refresh the mouse worked well.  The only time the mouse would show up was in F2/Delete

previous to the refresh.  <shrugz>.  I could get to the BIOS and the mouse was functioning

if I wanted to make system changes.

So it strongly seems like the CH software is not compatible with Win8. Your best option is probably to switch to Win7.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Max on May 25, 2013, 06:09:44 AM
Count me as one of the millions of Microsoft OS users who has little knowledge, or desire to learn, the ins and outs of registry manipulation, SDK's, kernal tweaking, etc. If I'm to spend $150-$200 for the latest version of Windows, I expect a trouble free user experience. From where I stand, Me, Vista and now 8 have been less than trouble free for many users. Fortunately, I've managed to ride the wave of reliable platforms - 98SE, XP, 7 Ultimate Home.

Were I, like Hajo, to spend upwards of $1k on a new computer and find hardware componants (which ran fine and smooth the day before) to now be the source of endless frustration, well.....I'd be pissed. Just sayen.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Hajo on May 25, 2013, 10:48:29 AM
So it strongly seems like the CH software is not compatible with Win8. Your best option is probably to switch to Win7.

Ch software uninstalled Rip  and controllers unplugged.  For some reason at the graphic screen before start the mouse disappeared.

I with no mouse could not click anywhere on screen to log on.  Had to refresh at that point.  I am not looking to point the finger

at anyone or anything....just trying to solve the  problem.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: save on May 25, 2013, 06:06:26 PM
Pretty much every 2nd microsoft OS is a beta for the good one coming after, and customers are paying the price.
I would definitively wait for the next version of MS coming.




Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 26, 2013, 02:25:08 AM
Ch software uninstalled Rip  and controllers unplugged.  For some reason at the graphic screen before start the mouse disappeared.

I with no mouse could not click anywhere on screen to log on.  Had to refresh at that point.  I am not looking to point the finger

at anyone or anything....just trying to solve the  problem.

If the problem was in the OS the refresh would not fix the problem. When you install software that uses Windows registry and/or installs drivers, it alters system settings. Uninstall more often than not cannot fully reverse the changes made. Only a system refresh or reinstall will reset the registry and refresh the system files the CH software possibly has altered or replaced.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Hajo on May 26, 2013, 10:04:56 AM
If the problem was in the OS the refresh would not fix the problem. When you install software that uses Windows registry and/or installs drivers, it alters system settings. Uninstall more often than not cannot fully reverse the changes made. Only a system refresh or reinstall will reset the registry and refresh the system files the CH software possibly has altered or replaced.

I did that....CH products are still connected after the refresh.  I am not going to install CH Manager etc. unless CH develops drivers for win8.

To much instability within the system at this time between win8 and Ch drivers.  With XP I didn't have CH drivers installed, XP handled all my USB precisely with no problems.

Unfortunately Microsoft has done nothing to update their windows USB drivers, even in Win8 the date of the USB Microsoft drivers are from 2006.  <shrugz>

Methinks they need to write new ones when the release a new operating system to keep up with technology.   jmho
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 26, 2013, 10:23:32 AM
I did that....CH products are still connected after the refresh.  I am not going to install CH Manager etc. unless CH develops drivers for win8.

To much instability within the system at this time between win8 and Ch drivers.  With XP I didn't have CH drivers installed, XP handled all my USB precisely with no problems.

Unfortunately Microsoft has done nothing to update their windows USB drivers, even in Win8 the date of the USB Microsoft drivers are from 2006.  <shrugz>

Methinks they need to write new ones when the release a new operating system to keep up with technology.   jmho

The 8.1 update is going to be released for free soon, maybe that will bring some help to your situation.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 29, 2013, 04:04:08 PM
More info leaks on 8.1: http://www.zdnet.com/heres-how-the-new-windows-blue-start-button-may-work-7000016042/
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: gyrene81 on May 30, 2013, 10:51:58 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 30, 2013, 01:29:22 PM
See Rule #4