Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mister Fork on April 12, 2013, 12:32:16 PM
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...the HE-111 AND the C202.
Come out and fly the He-111 as it did during that historic period. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,347232.0.html
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C.202 didn't fight in the Battle of Britain. Didn't even exist at the time of the Battle of Britain.
You AvA guys really have some serious issues with the British.
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C202 replaces the G50 methinks
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C202 replaces the G50 methinks
Not even remotely in the same performance category.
The AvA has the opportunity to run the best BoB setting that they have ever run, and they go and toss the C.202 into the mix and blow the whole thing. This is almost as bad as the infamous substitution of the Typhoon for the Beaufighter more than a decade ago. I saw the BoB setting and thought "I think I'll try it", then saw the C.202 and thought "nevery mind."
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C202 replaces the G50 methinks
And we have a winner! Yes, during the latter part of BoB Italy formed Corpo Aereo Italiano which had BR.20 and some Fiat CR.42 Falco and G.50 Feccia as CAP. So the only way to represent their involvement is the C.202. From a performance perspective, it's not close to the CR.42 or G.50, but the C.202 does represent a 1941 aircraft but it's nice to include a NEWLY refreshed aircraft into a line-up.
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And we have a winner! Yes, during the latter part of BoB Italy formed Corpo Aereo Italiano which had BR.20 and some Fiat CR.42 Falco and G.50 Feccia as CAP. So the only way to represent their involvement is the C.202. From a performance perspective, it's not close to the CR.42 or G.50, but the C.202 does represent a 1941 aircraft but it's nice to include a NEWLY refreshed aircraft into a line-up.
And completely blow the BoB setting. Good job. You replaced the 292mph G.50 with a 372mph C.202.
Maybe, just maybe, you ought to have, oh, I don't know, run a BoB setting this week and a Malta, North Africa or Invasion of Italy setting next week.
Instead you let the AvA's persistent anti-RAF bias march on unimpeded. If it isn't 1942 Spitfire Mk IXs vs 1945 Bf109K-4s it is the BoB with a fantasy Italian participant.
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How about maybe the G2? Or 190A5?
I mean... imho, you know what plane I'm gonna be flying with that settup. :devil
Edit: Brewster...?
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Maybe, just maybe, you ought to have, oh, I don't know, run a BoB setting this week and a Malta, North Africa or Invasion of Italy setting next week.
Instead you let the AvA's persistent anti-RAF bias march on unimpeded. If it isn't 1942 Spitfire Mk IXs vs 1945 Bf109K-4s it is the BoB with a fantasy Italian participant.
If I'm reading the threads correctly, we know that Karnak already refuses to fly in AvA because he doesn't appreciate the no-icon settings. Now we see that he's also not going to fly in the AvA, at least this week, because he finds the presence of the 202 to be a-historical. What I'm at pains to understand is why he routinely and predictably gets so upset, in a decidedly unpleasant manner, about an arena he won't fly in anyway. It's like me complaining about the WWI arena, or the dueling arena, or FSO.
Just another of those mysteries....
- oldman
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If I'm reading the threads correctly, we know that Karnak already refuses to fly in AvA because he doesn't appreciate the no-icon settings. Now we see that he's also not going to fly in the AvA, at least this week, because he finds the presence of the 202 to be a-historical. What I'm at pains to understand is why he routinely and predictably gets so upset, in a decidedly unpleasant manner, about an arena he won't fly in anyway. It's like me complaining about the WWI arena, or the dueling arena, or FSO.
Just another of those mysteries....
- oldman
Hey leave the guy alone its his sword he can fall on it if he wants :D. He's been doing it for a decade now.
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Add the Spixteen to BoB and I will come shoot him down in a C202 all day. :devil
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And completely blow the BoB setting. Good job. You replaced the 292mph G.50 with a 372mph C.202.
Maybe, just maybe, you ought to have, oh, I don't know, run a BoB setting this week and a Malta, North Africa or Invasion of Italy setting next week.
Instead you let the AvA's persistent anti-RAF bias march on unimpeded. If it isn't 1942 Spitfire Mk IXs vs 1945 Bf109K-4s it is the BoB with a fantasy Italian participant.
Woohoo!! Get em Karnak. Sock it to em!!!
+1 Karnak
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If I'm reading the threads correctly, we know that Karnak already refuses to fly in AvA because he doesn't appreciate the no-icon settings. Now we see that he's also not going to fly in the AvA, at least this week, because he finds the presence of the 202 to be a-historical. What I'm at pains to understand is why he routinely and predictably gets so upset, in a decidedly unpleasant manner, about an arena he won't fly in anyway. It's like me complaining about the WWI arena, or the dueling arena, or FSO.
Just another of those mysteries....
- oldman
Actually, when I saw the BoB thread title and with the new He111 I wanted to fly in the AvA. Then I saw the bastardized abortion that you came up with that makes a mockery of the whole thing. So I commented on that instead of posting that I would check it out.
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Woohoo!! Get em Karnak. Sock it to em!!!
+1 Karnak
Well I guess birds of a feather and all that...
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Well I guess birds of a feather and all that...
Nathan06,
Unless I am mistaken you prefer to fly Axis birds, which makes the C.202 quite the bonus for you in that setting.
Besides, as I noted, the AvA has a long standing anti-British bias when the opposing side is German.
Remember, I was one of the original players who joined the effort to get the AvA, then called the Combat Theater, off the ground. If it hadn't been hijacked I'd still play in there too.
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Actually, when I saw the BoB thread title and with the new He111 I wanted to fly in the AvA. Then I saw the bastardized abortion that you came up with that makes a mockery of the whole thing. So I commented on that instead of posting that I would check it out.
Dude. I am not AvA staff. Haven't been for years now. Please try to keep up.
- oldman
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Dude. I am not AvA staff. Haven't been for years now. Please try to keep up.
- oldman
My apologies. I guess I was just looking at the icon you and the OP both use.
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Nathan06,
Unless I am mistaken you prefer to fly Axis birds, which makes the C.202 quite the bonus for you in that setting.
Besides, as I noted, the AvA has a long standing anti-British bias when the opposing side is German.
Remember, I was one of the original players who joined the effort to get the AvA, then called the Combat Theater, off the ground. If it hadn't been hijacked I'd still play in there too.
I dont have a set 'bird' I tend to bounce around however lately I have been flying axis since I fly axis in FSO. In the AvA i fly the side with less players. I think you confuse the types of fights that folks usually end up in with some kinda bias. I have no problem with your complaints but the way you complain is a bit over the top. I know Tact and humility isnt in right now but maybe if you tried using them youd come off less abrasive.
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(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/5952/anim03.gif) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/anim03.gif/)
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I dont have a set 'bird' I tend to bounce around however lately I have been flying axis since I fly axis in FSO. In the AvA i fly the side with less players. I think you confuse the types of fights that folks usually end up in with some kinda bias. I have no problem with your complaints but the way you complain is a bit over the top. I know Tact and humility isnt in right now but maybe if you tried using them youd come off less abrasive.
I did try that approach. I was ignored.
As I said, the AvA has been hijacked by "purist extremists" driving away former participants such as myself while wondering why people don't play there. Even despite the icon silliness I was keen to try the Battle of Britain and get some Hurricane Mk I/Spitfire Mk I vs Bf109s and He111s action. On seeing the title of this thread I fully intended to make a positive post.
Instead I what I saw is that they are doing a substitution that is more extreme than the horrible Typhoon for Beaufighter that happened back in 2001. Super Italian fighter that can easily out run the Spitfire Mk I as a replacement for a fighter that couldn't even do 300mph.
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I love Battle of Britain theme, It's one of my favorites in any combat/flight sim game.
But I DO agree that using the c2 is a bit to much in the middle of 1940 planes.
Perhaps the idea of this substitution was to show the remodeled plane in order to seduce more players to get into AvA this week?
Hope not many people will use it :uhoh
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I did try that approach. I was ignored.
Imagine that.
I fly Axis and I back Karnak 100%
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Instead I what I saw is that they are doing a substitution that is more extreme than the horrible Typhoon for Beaufighter that happened back in 2001. Super Italian fighter that can easily out run the Spitfire Mk I as a replacement for a fighter that couldn't even do 300mph.
a 12 year grudge is not a healthy thing, you current approach is doing you no favors.
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Imagine that.
I fly Axis and I back Karnak 100%
Perhaps as with Karnak its your lack of courtesy that is the problem. Try being a little less 3rd grade and maybe you would get better results.
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Perhaps as with Karnak its your lack of courtesy that is the problem. Try being a little less 3rd grade and maybe you would get better results.
No, we get ignored. I posted suggested adjustments, but the same error was just repeated endlessly. No matter how many times the history of the Spitfire was explained, in clinical, not adversarial terms, they had no interest in it. The AvA is dominated by USAAF and Luftwaffe fans and those are the rides they care about the subtle distinctions of. No matter how many times it was explained to them, the Spitfire Mk IX was seen as a universal Spitfire Mk IX and the Spitfire Mk XVI was just a fantasy MA fighter. There was no understanding that saying "Spitfire Mk IX" is like saying "Bf109G". Eventually they told me to get lost and they'd run it as they liked.
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No, we get ignored. I posted suggested adjustments, but the same error was just repeated endlessly. No matter how many times the history of the Spitfire was explained, in clinical, not adversarial terms, they had no interest in it. The AvA is dominated by USAAF and Luftwaffe fans and those are the rides they care about the subtle distinctions of. No matter how many times it was explained to them, the Spitfire Mk IX was seen as a universal Spitfire Mk IX and the Spitfire Mk XVI was just a fantasy MA fighter. There was no understanding that saying "Spitfire Mk IX" is like saying "Bf109G". Eventually they told me to get lost and they'd run it as they liked.
A suggestion is a suggestion , you basically are upset that your suggestion wasnt implimented? Like I said 12 years is a long time to hold onto an ego burn. I never see the AvA guys make the first agressive post its always you, and as I said you are not doing yourself any favors. Let it go man, Or in a civilized manner create a write up yourself and see if they will run it.
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A suggestion is a suggestion , you basically are upset that your suggestion wasnt implimented? Like I said 12 years is a long time to hold onto an ego burn. I never see the AvA guys make the first agressive post its always you, and as I said you are not doing yourself any favors. Let it go man, Or in a civilized manor create a write up yourself and see if they will run it.
Using the 1942 Spitfire Mk IX in 1945 settings because they don't like the Spitfire Mk XVI puts lie to the idea that the AvA is supposed to be doing historical matchups. They don't want historical matchups or they don't care about things outside of their own interest. Either is unacceptable.
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:bhead So once again you have the chance to be civil and you put the tin foil armor on. That seems to be working well for you.
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:bhead So once again you have the chance to be civil and you put the tin foil armor on.
Is it tinfoil when they outright stated such?
Yes, there is hostility now. But it did not start that way. It started as somebody who is knowledgeable about non-German aircraft trying to help the AvA be more historical getting told to shut up by guys who don't have any interest in the RAF beyond its value as a target.
Look at the passion some guys have for Bf109s, Fw190s, P-38s, P-47s or P-51s. The detailed knowledge they have of the engine changes, which armaments were used and when, the evolution of the cockpits and canopies. Some people have that level of passion regarding Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mosquitoes, Yaks and A6Ms, but the guys running the AvA don't respect that. I would absolutely speak against a 1945 setting in which it was Spitfire Mk XIVs and XVIs against Bf109G-2s, but when I speak against the same thing in the other direction it is unacceptable because Spitfires carry baggage.
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My ego was hurt. I hold a grudge. So I make up some anti-British bias to validate my hatefulness
Fixed. Im done.
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I don't think that ignoring what those that do not fly the AvA want to entice them to participate makes sense when the Arena is underpopulated while we see constant posts inviting us MA players.
I know it's harsh but the numbers speak for themselves. The way it is run now results in a low population but you don't want to change anything.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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I don't think that ignoring what those that do not fly the AvA want to entice them to participate makes sense when the Arena is underpopulated while we see constant posts inviting us MA players.
I know it's harsh but the numbers speak for themselves. The way it is run now results in a low population but you don't want to change anything.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
They have tried other ways they even ran a setup specifically for Icepac awhile back.
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I don't think that ignoring what those that do not fly the AvA want to entice them to participate makes sense when the Arena is underpopulated while we see constant posts inviting us MA players.
I know it's harsh but the numbers speak for themselves. The way it is run now results in a low population but you don't want to change anything.
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Zoney,
The fact is that over the past decade the AvA staff has tried anything and everything. You perhaps haven't been following it closely, but Karnak has and he knows better. An AvA arena simply will not please everyone, for a wide variety of reasons, so someone will always be disappointed.
More: The staff itself has changed significantly over the years. One of the reasons I left was because I was identified with the "elitist" attitude - probably accurately - which so many found offensive. The folks who are running it now are doing a fine job. They even run setups with Karnak's precious Spit 16s. They have obviously chosen not to defend themselves in this thread so that they don't compound the problem. I will respect their choice and let you folks have the last word.
- oldman
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I don't fly Spit XVIs. Don't mistake my position by misrepresenting me. You insist on tossing 1942 RAF birds at 1945 Luftwaffe birds for gods know what reason. One could infer a lot of negative things from that persistent behavior, perhaps inaccurately, but the AvA's sheer refusal to adjust when it is pointed out that they are being inaccurate in a way they don't have to be makes one wonder.
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Oldman, thanks for your reply.
There is nothing that I want as much as having AvA battles in this wonderful game we enjoy.
I'm quite aware of the history of the AvA because I want it to be a worthwhile place for me to play. and therefore follow conversations and changes as they are discussed.
Allthough no one has asked me personally what I want, I'll throw it our there anyway.
1.) I want to feel welcome and included when I play there.
2.) I want the same settings I find in the MA.
3.) I want unlimited plane choices except for the Axis VS Allies theme, or absolutely correct limited planesets per era.
I am NOT asking anyone to change the arena for me. I am sharing why I do not play there simply as information.
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We've removed the C.202 until we roll in 1941-42 aircraft later this week.
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:banana: :joystick: