Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on April 13, 2013, 08:34:30 AM
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I was going to ask this morning but I see in all the bomber discussions that there is.
I was climbing out on auto climb last night and my nose kept lifting and falling. I thought my joystick was screwed up or something at first so I kept resetting auto climb. Then I noticed the auto pilot light was staying on when this was happening so figured it must be something new but was wondering what.
I guess I didn't notice any big effect other than that. Has anyone noticed any effects during a fight?
:airplane: <--- The effects of wind and turbulance.
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the wind effect needs transition layers or somthing that attempts to simulate the atmosphere being a fluid and not being solid tectonic plates shifting in different directions.
its terribly unrealistic to have wind modelled this way.
as a rare localized clear air occurance ok maybe but as a country wide fixed altitude bland effect that does nothing but make bomber pilots angry... ah is better off without it.
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Wonder if it's possible to have it do different stuff at different parts of the map, like clouds used to. I expect it's an arena-wide thing though
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It's nice that HTC had to fix something that was never broke.
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I first noticed the wind when climbing for alt in my P47, the nose bounced around a little on auto climb. I thought it was my stick calibration so I checked that and everything was ok. I wrote it off as a visual or graphics rendering blip (my laptop is not so fancy) and since it wasn't really effecting my fighter game play I just ignored this.
I switched to bombers later in the evening and suddenly I couldn't hit any of my targets. I was flying the new Lancasters, I thought they were just acting weird, until I checked my E6B and noticed there was wind at 18K. The bomb sight was not taking in to account for the wind, so I tried to do my own math to take in to account for wind drift. While my bombing accuracy suffered, I did like the challenge of trying to make manual corrections to hit my targets. I wouldn't mind a little wind in the arenas, just wish there was some way to input the data into the bomb sight.
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In the SEA scenarios i've flown the bomb claibration did not compensate for wind (auto or manual). the player had to adjust on gut reckoning alone. Somewhere I've seen a bombing calibration figure that took into account bomb drift at various wind speeds/directions based on a certain altitude AGL. I'll have to hunt for it, will come in handy now.
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Noticed it last night..made me :D
Hope we keep it.
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Years ago I thought it would be awesome to have a real world weather environment like Real Envoronment Extreme for FS9/FSX but within flying minimums/maximums as per real WW2 flying operations. So that a thunderstorm wouldn't ground everyone.
Of course those running 10 year old computers would complain but it would be a great enhancement to have real variable weather.
Maybe we could have two arenas one for those that keep up with technology in cpu/gpu's and those that still expect 60fps on their 10 year old business desktops. :ahand
<S>...-Gixer
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again.. . I :rofl at those who are so quick on the draw to condemn something they're not willing to learn. The learning curve is short, fellas. Relax. It isn't like most of you "vets" can't adapt and over come. jeeesh.
READ YOUR E6B AND ADJUST. Today in the MA LWA, wind was 0 MPH from 0-10k, then 20mph from 10k to 20k with a heading of 180° (due south), then above 20k the wind stayed at 20mph but shifted to a 270° heading (WEST).
I was in a He111 northbound and I dropped 2/1000kg bombs on a CV from 12k and didn't change a thing. One bomb was dead on and the other short by just a hair. The longer your bombs travel through the wind the more it is going to drift. So... the higher you go the less "precise" the bombs will be. That means those 30k+ B29 runs will need to use more of the carpet bomb approach vs the precision bombing approach, which is all actuality is far more consistent with the real deal. :aok The higher you go the less accurate you're going to be. Valid concept. So I'll say here as I said in the other "there is wind???" thread: suck it up, cupcakes. Deal with it and adapt! :aok
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again.. . I :rofl at those who are so quick on the draw to condemn something they're not willing to learn. It isn't like most of you "vets" can't adapt and over come. jeeesh.
I have seen relatively few ppl "condemning" it. I have seen several players raising concerns not related to the ability of us individual "vets" (whatever that really means) to adapt and overcome, but to the overall impact on the game. I already expressed it in details in that other thread that was inexplicably moved to "Help & Training"
What I didn't mention yet is my disappointment the lack of communication by HTC. Suddenly putting such a severe change in the game on a weekend without any notice. Not even an arena message notifying of it, much less any explanation if it's a test or already planned to stay. And not any hints on how to cope with it (arena message would be very helpful again. But then, HT himself thought the bombsight would compensate, which it clearly does not.). Players just suddenly find their bombs being way off without any explanation.
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I need a MEM check but at one time was there not thunder heads and lightning in the MA?
Maybe I dreamnt that.........
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as a rare localized clear air occurance ok maybe but as a country wide fixed altitude bland effect that does nothing but make bomber pilots angry... ah is better off without it.
anything that makes bomber pilots angry is fine with me
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I was climbing out in a 47 and noticed the nose bouncing up and down as well as side to side (already knew about the wind but had forgotten). I watched the E6B and it seemed to change speed and heading slightly as alt increased. I don't know if it's supposed to or if I'm reading it wrong.
Anyway, I like it. It adds a new challenge to the game. The challenge of this game is what keeps me coming back.
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Nothing new we had wind 10 years ago to many people cried :cry at how hard it was and they turned it off LOL Now only if they would address the dive bombing Lancs and such.....
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Nothing new we had wind 10 years ago to many people cried :cry at how hard it was and they turned it off LOL Now only if they would address the dive bombing Lancs and such.....
they could just remove bombers completely from the game possibly.
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Time for a break from aces high.
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It's nice that HTC had to fix something that was never broke.
They added something to the MA.
Wind was available, just not in the MA, they added a different way to measure it in the last patch, and then included it.
What is that thing they were fixing that was not broken? The game wasn't broken when the He111 and the Ki43 were added, should adding new things need break something?
What are you concerned about by adding wind? I can think of a few things that would affect gameplay myself. I'm excited that wind makes flying at specific altitudes much more important to maximize aircraft performance, and as a result can be a new tool to gain competitive advantage. I am concerned about the effectiveness of level bombing vs. jabo attacks. (In terms of AH gameplay.) as I would prefer (personally) to see bombers in AH given a role of more importance, not less, which I believe will be the case. Then again maybe this is the first step of many to shift level bombers to a more potent strategic role? (<--wishlist)
Regardless I did not say "it's different, it sucks" :old:
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they could just remove bombers completely from the game possibly.
Your avatar would not longer be valid though.
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Your avatar would not longer be valid though.
I'm on the side of making it easier for bombers to hit stuff. I don't see the point of the 90 degree wind layers, other than to draw the bombers lower, where they're even easier to kill.. If they are kept below 10k, I can kill them reliably with a field gun. that's not right IMO.
I trust HTC is just testing and playing with settings.
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I'm on the side of making it easier for bombers to hit stuff.
I'm not a bomber guy, but I do dabble from time to time... it's already easy for bombers to hit stuff. As long as you're not bothered with fighters and your salvo/bombload is appropriate, an accurate drop is a forgone conclusion with no wind.
I don't want to see bombers nerfed, but taking out a hangar from 25k shouldn't be easy, imo.
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I'm not a bomber guy, but I do dabble from time to time... it's already easy for bombers to hit stuff. As long as you're not bothered with fighters and your salvo/bombload is appropriate, an accurate drop is a forgone conclusion with no wind.
I don't want to see bombers nerfed, but taking out a hangar from 25k shouldn't be easy, imo.
Uh, there is wind now. have you tried recently?
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Bombing in the wind: (If too complicated, just look at the table at the end of the section titled "The Model".)
http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/aces_high/levelBombing/bombingInWind.html
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I'm not a bomber guy, but I do dabble from time to time... it's already easy for bombers to hit stuff. As long as you're not bothered with fighters and your salvo/bombload is appropriate, an accurate drop is a forgone conclusion with no wind.
I don't want to see bombers nerfed, but taking out a hangar from 25k shouldn't be easy, imo.
If you don't find the bold and underlined part imperative to stress, than I don't where or when you do your bombing. How realistic is it that if I can't get a gunner or don't want someone I hardly know to use up all the ammo, that I have to sit in bombsite calibrating/dropping while jugs tear me up? IRL, the gunners be gunnin.
Wind has just made things more difficult for bomber pilots, a breed that spend 3-10 times as long doing what they do for that few seconds of action that ftr pilots can get in sometimes 30 secs after uppin. Bomber pilots leaving the game, prolly. There are too many other things out there for ppl to do for them to say to themselves, hmmm lemme climb to a safe alt, but now I can't hit may target because of wind, its going to take me 30-45mins, ahhhh screw it is what they are going to say...
Turn the wind on for ftr pilots if you guys want it. I'm sure some will say ahhh he's lazy he doesn't want to adjust/learn, and I see your point of view. However its not due to laziness, its due to maximizing my time & fun, if something else comes along that delivers the same amount of fun, but for a longer duration - 'tis obvious which one ppl will choose. I'm sure the "Easy Mode" guy is about to make an appearance and... however, I haven't been around here long enough to give an opinion here re: what happens when things get even more difficult, but I know elsewhere. The learning curve is very steep for this game, flying a bomber was one thing in the beginning (two AH careers '06 & now) that I felt I could do and help out, get to know ppl, help take a base, and most importantly enjoy the game. Yada yada yada...
More bomb and ditch, esp. after misses...
I do like the Oscar.
Jus my .02
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Turn the wind on for ftr pilots if you guys want it.
think about that for more than 10 seconds..
you want two different aircraft flying thru the same space getting different winds? :rolleyes:
I just find it funny that you can go back thru the wishlist forum, you can probably find a thread a week requesting "wind, rain, weather!"
I wonder how many of those are regretting it now. :aok
for the record, I dont think we should have any wind in the MA's. I'd wager 75% of the player base cant even take off from a turning CV. they have no concept of how wind works. the last thing this game needs is making the entry level (bombers) harder to succeed with.
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At least I know now that I am not insane and plane was affected by wind :)
We need avatars in planes :old:
Hi Kvuo your awesome :old:
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Heh....was in a furball last night, at some point I did an Immel in my jug in a desperate attempt to get a shot off on...don't remember now....anyhow, was near stall speed at the top, and as I was trying to roll back level...frikkin plane started floating UP...couldn't put nose down...couldn't right the plane...LOL I had JUST cracked the next wind layer, and it was holding me up....hanging there upside down getting shot at.
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think about that for more than 10 seconds..
you want two different aircraft flying thru the same space getting different winds? :rolleyes:
I didn't say I wanted it, a previous post mentioned ftr pilots wanting/not wanting wind. But I don't know what it would really matter to the bomber pilot if the ftr pilot had to deal with wind.
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Also, somebody mentioned in the other post bombing pinpoint from 30K. I say they go try that again and see. My luck from anything above 25K is spotty, unless it's the strats and sometimes even there. If you spend the time to get to 30K in a bomber and you miss your target, I'm sure you'll be a little more than unhappy.
If you are able to hit the vh/fth at 30K with pinpoint accuracy and not waste bombs, then they know a lot about bombing I don't...
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People been asking for it on for years they grant a wish now everyone is crying turn it off!!! lmao htc cant win.
I like it heard a bomber squad on range trying to learn the wind drop no more 15k cv snipers.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,197311.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,197311.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,186496.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,186496.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,180472.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,180472.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,214543.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,214543.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,174328.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,174328.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,197630.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,197630.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,157451.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,157451.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,191189.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,191189.0.html)
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,194155.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,194155.0.html)
just a few wishes from the wishlist
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Having wind over 20k is fine - let the heavies carpet bomb from up there. They shouldn't have pinpoint accuracy from the safety of that alt.
The layer above 10k is a bad idea, IMO.
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Having wind over 20k is fine - let the heavies carpet bomb from up there. They shouldn't have pinpoint accuracy from the safety of that alt.
The layer above 10k is a bad idea, IMO.
:aok
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:aok
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Having wind over 20k is fine - let the heavies carpet bomb from up there. They shouldn't have pinpoint accuracy from the safety of that alt.
The layer above 10k is a bad idea, IMO.
and here you have the solution.
Also HTC, please make the wind layer include a built-in gradient. a 20 mph jump in airspeed is terrible if you are in the middle of hard maneuvering - flaps suddenly auto-retracting, planes close to stall go over the edge, etc. Force a minimum spacing of the layers and a layer defined at some alt affect the wind speeds at +-2000 feet using a linear interpolation would be enough.
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There you go, someone has done all the work for the buff pilots. Now all you have to do is either make your approaches "upwind" or "downwind", or do a little math using the tables below. Bombing will be a piece of cake again! :aok
Thus, the model is
d = v_c * sqrt(2 * h / 32) * 5280 / 3600,
where d is the distance in feet to the side of the crosshairs the bombs will hit, h is altitude above target in feet, and v_c is the mph of the crosswind component. h is your bomber altitude minus the target altitude. v_c can be obtained from the E6B under "Wind" as the "right cross" or "left cross" crosswind readings.
As an example, here is a table of d at various altitudes assuming a 5 mph crosswind. For a crosswind of v_c (i.e., other than 5 mph), you can calculate d_new as d_table * v_c / 5. Thus, if the crosswind were 10 mph, the d values would be double.
Altitude from target (feet) Time to impact (sec) d (feet)
5000 17.7 130
10000 25.0 183
15000 30.6 224
20000 35.4 259
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How do you approach from downwind or upwind when there are 4 different layers with winds 90 degrees off of each other?
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Thus, the model is
d = v_c * sqrt(2 * h / 32) * 5280 / 3600,
where d is the distance in feet to the side of the crosshairs the bombs will hit, h is altitude above target in feet, and v_c is the mph of the crosswind component. h is your bomber altitude minus the target altitude. v_c can be obtained from the E6B under "Wind" as the "right cross" or "left cross" crosswind readings.
As an example, here is a table of d at various altitudes assuming a 5 mph crosswind. For a crosswind of v_c (i.e., other than 5 mph), you can calculate d_new as d_table * v_c / 5. Thus, if the crosswind were 10 mph, the d values would be double.
Altitude from target (feet) Time to impact (sec) d (feet)
5000 17.7 130
10000 25.0 183
15000 30.6 224
20000 35.4 259
<--- failed algebra 3x......HUH? :confused:
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How do you approach from downwind or upwind when there are 4 different layers with winds 90 degrees off of each other?
It sounds like wind affects dropping bombs very little compared to flying airplanes. Base your approach on your flight altitude, not what your bombs have to drop through.
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It sounds like wind affects dropping bombs very little compared to flying airplanes. Base your approach on your flight altitude, not what your bombs have to drop through.
Dunno. People are saying they are missing by half the airfield. That seems like major effects from the wind.
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It sounds like wind affects dropping bombs very little compared to flying airplanes. Base your approach on your flight altitude, not what your bombs have to drop through.
At 15k, they made 1k eggs miss by HALF the width of a Vbase. If what the wind does can be fairly calculated without the need of a Cray supercomputer, should be ok
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Could it be because your plane was being pushed that hard to the side, and effectively making your track that far off? If your compass is showing 090, but there's a crosswind, from the left, your flight path would be something more southerly, perhaps something like 095. So even if the crosshairs were right on target, you were not tracking across the ground straight down your target line, and the bombs would fall off to the right.
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The arrow pointing exactly to the point where the crosshair was on release.
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/release_zps91a7c77c.jpg)
And the result
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/impact_zps52b5cc4c.jpg)
Bomb drift was more than three times the indestructible hangar length.
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I notice you're using the quad .303 tail gun. Do you find the ammo matters more than the firepower?
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I notice you're using the quad .303 tail gun. Do you find the ammo matters more than the firepower?
Can't tell. Have only one sortie with a combat encounter in it. I was shot down in mere seconds, but with the kind of attack the enemy fighter was doing on me, .50 cal would have made no difference.
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The bomb sight is supposed to correct for the wind if calibrated correctly.
It sounds like there is a bug that needs to be addressed.
HiTech
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Thanks for the comment, Hitech. Nice to know where HTC's intentions on this are.
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The bomb sight is supposed to correct for the wind if calibrated correctly.
It sounds like there is a bug that needs to be addressed.
HiTech
Yup! (I was thinking about this on Friday, but thought it might be an arena setting that may of been intentionaly disabled)
Also, many people are expressing more disdain for the wind transitioning from 0 to 20mph after ascending 2-feet than they are at the actual presence of wind in the MA. (but I still blame Ack-Ack!)
It's a "new" challenge to work with for sure in the MA, but it isn't "that bad". The worst of it is that it is showing where, in regards to wind in AH, where the feature/wind is a little behind the times.
Anyone had luck turning dead into or with the wind (flying 0/180 in relation to the wind)? I've been trying to do this but it's not as easy/simple as you'd think.
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The bomb sight is supposed to correct for the wind if calibrated correctly.
It sounds like there is a bug that needs to be addressed.
HiTech
So am I right when assuming that wind is about to stay? And more importantly, will it be enabled at the current altitudes, or are you maybe considering Caldera's proposal of enabling it at ~20k and above?
And while at it, how about disabling the wind until the bug is fixed? ;)
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I have no issue with wind being in AH, though transitional layers would be nice, but I don't want bombers above 10k to become extinct.
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For those not around earlier this week, this all started in the thread wishing/suggesting/requesting for windsock, tetrahedrons, and sock hawks: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,347315.msg4586163.html#msg4586163
I would hope yes, the wind is something that will likely not go away, and would be nice after getting some updating/remodeling/lovin'.
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Uh, there is wind now. have you tried recently?
The title of the thread kind of gave it away. :)
If you don't find the bold and underlined part imperative to stress, than I don't where or when you do your bombing.
Unless you're 999000 or intentionally upping a Death Star, you should be planning an approach to minimize fighter interception I would think. Is that not what you do?
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I guess if there's wind it would be nice to have it gradiated like +2 mph every thousand feet or something rather than none then suddenly 20 mph or whatever it is. Also if done this way direction could be gradiated as well.
Again I haven't noticed a big effect other than the nose bounce when you hit it but then again I rarely fly bombers anymore and haven't since this was implemented.
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Planes feel more real, the bombers will have a more accurate representation.
Agreed that it needs more buffer between each zone so the gust's of wind aren't so drastic. However if realistic weather is ever added i can see flying into or through a storm front to mimic how planes feel right now.
All in all a nice change, also helps the planes feel less like they are on invisible rails.
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20 MPH horizontal wind shear is not drastic, I don't believe it's even considered significant as long as you aren't near the ground.
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20 MPH horizontal wind shear is not drastic, I don't believe it's even considered significant as long as you aren't near the ground.
You're the first person I've heard mention "drastic". Many have mentioned transition. IE: 0 to 20mph in the distance of 1 vertical-foot.
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I didn't say I wanted it, a previous post mentioned ftr pilots wanting/not wanting wind. But I don't know what it would really matter to the bomber pilot if the ftr pilot had to deal with wind.
like i said, you have to think about it for more than 10 seconds :)
just think about who might get the tail wind or head wind in a chase. :uhoh
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The bomb sight is supposed to correct for the wind if calibrated correctly.
It sounds like there is a bug that needs to be addressed.
HiTech
Will the bombs still be laser-accurate (as with no wind) if calibrated correctly - and if so, what would be the point of having wind?
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You're the first person I've heard mention "drastic".
Look at the post right above mine. The part where it says "drastic". :lol
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Will the bombs still be laser-accurate (as with no wind) if calibrated correctly - and if so, what would be the point of having wind?
Well, wind still affects flight. A tailwind makes your ground speed faster, a headwind makes it slower and wind coming from the side will make flying a straight line harder.
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Well, wind still affects flight. A tailwind makes your ground speed faster, a headwind makes it slower and wind coming from the side will make flying a straight line harder.
Also....choosing the alt with the correct wind direction can change your speed 20-40 knots I'm thinking?
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In the SEA scenarios i've flown the bomb claibration did not compensate for wind (auto or manual). the player had to adjust on gut reckoning alone. Somewhere I've seen a bombing calibration figure that took into account bomb drift at various wind speeds/directions based on a certain altitude AGL. I'll have to hunt for it, will come in handy now.
If you are at a direct headwind or tailwind, the automatic bombsight will compensate. If it is at a crosswind, it will not.
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Well, wind still affects flight. A tailwind makes your ground speed faster, a headwind makes it slower and wind coming from the side will make flying a straight line harder.
Exactly. A bomber with a perfect bomb sight will land the bomb where the X was at, but the cross will move diagonally across the ground if there is a side wind. This will make getting the X to the target slightly trickier, but nothing any noob can't figure out.
What wind adds is a tactical aspect. A bomber flying downwind will have a higher ground speed, which means he will reach the target faster and clear the target area faster = more likely to make a clean drop and get away with it. From the point of view of the interceptor climbing below the wind layer, the bomber is simply faster by 20 mph or whatever the speed is. The only problem is that the static wind means a constant advantage to the chess piece that happens to be up wind.
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The only problem is that the static wind means a constant advantage to the chess piece that happens to be up wind.
Which is most likely why there are multiple layers close to together with the same speed but different directions.
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Which is most likely why there are multiple layers close to together with the same speed but different directions.
At the current settings, there is only one layer going up all the way from 16k, so any higher (not even high) altitude bombing i.e. strat runs is subject to this one layer of wind.
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Would be nice if it changed to a different heading at a semi-random interval. Say, every 30 minutes plus 15 to 60 minutes it randomly selects a direction and speed to blow. It could even end up staying the same. I'd suggest using four or eight directions, but three hundred and sixty could work too.
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Exactly. A bomber with a perfect bomb sight will land the bomb where the X was at, but the cross will move diagonally across the ground if there is a side wind. This will make getting the X to the target slightly trickier, but nothing any noob can't figure out.
What wind adds is a tactical aspect. A bomber flying downwind will have a higher ground speed, which means he will reach the target faster and clear the target area faster = more likely to make a clean drop and get away with it. From the point of view of the interceptor climbing below the wind layer, the bomber is simply faster by 20 mph or whatever the speed is. The only problem is that the static wind means a constant advantage to the chess piece that happens to be up wind.
Well, I'm not a n00b and I cant figure it out. I can hit the base I took off from, 3 sectors away from my release point, and killshoot myself on my own guys taking off there. I won't be flying buffs any more. There's no sensation of having achieved anything when you spend two hours getting your He111 formation to an altitude that prevents you being hunted down by a fully laden, fully fuelled P47D-40 that takes off from your target base when your icon hits visual range, only to frighten the bejeezuz out of a squaddy who is just lifting in a 262.
There's no feeling that your bombsight crosshairs are moving diagonally across the target relative to your aircraft and the time investment required to learn how to deal with the wind is monstrous. I get 2-3 hours to play on weekend nights and that is one buff mission of bombing the crap out of windblown terrain tiles, so typically, given my advanced age, creeping senility, repeated head injuries and huge intake of alcohol, I'm not in the state to learn a damn thing by the time I up. It's a game. It should be fun, damn it!
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Would be nice if it changed to a different heading at a semi-random interval. Say, every 30 minutes plus 15 to 60 minutes it randomly selects a direction and speed to blow. It could even end up staying the same. I'd suggest using four or eight directions, but three hundred and sixty could work too.
Say.... I've think I've read that exact wish before. :aok
I think having the wind rotate motate every 30 mins or so would be great. Have it be at the top and bottom of the hour that way regardless of time zone everyone will know *when* the wind is going to shift.
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The wind model in AH is a joke. One would think that over the last 11 years that a more realistic weather model could have been developed.
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like i said, you have to think about it for more than 10 seconds :)
just think about who might get the tail wind or head wind in a chase. :uhoh
I see your point, however I'm not sure I can recall too many engagements where 20mph would have made much of a difference. My usual bombing run is at high alt and the target is strats. Given that I rarely see much else besides 47M's and 163's, the Jug has enough fuel that 20mph is negligible and the 163, well, depends on his bravery. Regarding other targets where there might be a friendly to assist, the extra speed could play a role if I had the tail wind and they did not for portions of the engagement. Of course if I had a headwind matters would be even worse...
Rot
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At the current settings, there is only one layer going up all the way from 16k, so any higher (not even high) altitude bombing i.e. strat runs is subject to this one layer of wind.
Wind currently changes at 10K, 15K, and 20K as far as I've noticed. Above 20K it's all 270º at 20.
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Wind currently changes at 10K, 15K, and 20K as far as I've noticed. Above 20K it's all 270º at 20.
I know, I was referring to the "high" altitude layer only.
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Yeah, there is wind, but the real bombsights of the time had compensation for wind drift built in.... also, I find it really really annoying that there is a 360 degree wind shift in 6000 feet... not very realistic and plays havoc with bombs. Bombing is a part of the game that makes it interesting... to screw with it without even having the courtesy of letting us know is A) Insulting and disrespectful of the players.. B)unrealistic (but so are worlds shaped like Pizzas, Mouldy Doughnuts and Giant Zits...) I understand that Furballers could care less... but as has been said, Fighter pilots make movies... Bomber Pilots make History....
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You know, I just checked the local winds aloft, on a comparatively windy and active day. The total varience between extemes of direction, from 3000 ft to 39,000 feet is 70 degrees. (not anywhere near the 360 as in the Late war arena today) in the same 6000 feet shown in todays arena, its less than 30 degrees... :bhead
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oops
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Found the cross wind bomb sight bub.
It is fixed for the next patch.
HiTech
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Yeah, there is wind, but the real bombsights of the time had compensation for wind drift built in.... also, I find it really really annoying that there is a 360 degree wind shift in 6000 feet... not very realistic and plays havoc with bombs. Bombing is a part of the game that makes it interesting... to screw with it without even having the courtesy of letting us know is A) Insulting and disrespectful of the players.. B)unrealistic (but so are worlds shaped like Pizzas, Mouldy Doughnuts and Giant Zits...) I understand that Furballers could care less... but as has been said, Fighter pilots make movies... Bomber Pilots make History....
Sit down and relax. Remove your blinders and stop and think about what you've just said and stop and think about all that you do not know or not aware of in regards to the real deal, AH, and HTC. Your opinions are just that and you are entitled to them, but package them with a bit more thought and you wont have people telling you relax.
There was a learning curve when you started, you learned and conquered. Now do it again. Since you know the basics you will learn that more quickly. Now, bombing becomes even more of an art and escort fighters are now that much more important thanks to the need for lower altitudes (for better accuracy). Now, the more historical accurate carpet bomb tactic may be needed at higher altitudes. As far as wind drift playing havoc with bombs.... it is too very realistic. Does your mother still spoon feed you???
As far as HTC "being disrespectful to players", I do not agree with that at all. Yeah, maybe there change log notes could have spelled it out a bit more but the first thing I did was to pull up the E6B and ask around on vox about the wind changes. Again, just because you're not spoon fed everything does not mean "disrespectful", it may have been an oversight or error, not blatant disrespect. Again, adapt and over come. Especially when something like weather effects add to the realism.
Maps... if you dont like them then may I suggest you make your own and submit it for approval. Again, you've spouted off and not offered one bit of a remedy for anything. I don't care for the Mundanao map, I think it is very limiting in multiple ways. However, it is not going away and I deal with it. As far as "realistic" maps go, the maps need to offer an environment to play the game. Nothing more. As long as there are fields, static targets, and a virtual sky to fly in then what difference does it make on if it looks like a pizza, donut, or vagina?
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Loon I'm sure bombero was just frustrated because he didn't realize there was a bug in the bombsight wind correction. :aok
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Loon I'm sure bombero was just frustrated because he didn't realize there was a bug in the bombsight wind correction. :aok
I'm not so sure about it.
Because I did, and I agree very much with one central part of bombero's statement.
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I don't exactly understand what the wind is supposed to accomplish. About all it seems to do is give people who are high heading with the wind an edge over people climbing through 10-16k, and make lining up bomb runs a tiny, tiny bit more difficult.
If the sight takes care of the plane's current wind conditions, the effect of the other 3 wind layers will be static, right? A bomb falling through them at terminal velocity will go the same amount west, south, and east as it falls through those layers, right?
Won't the final result of the lower layers being there just be something along the lines of "Drop above 20k (or someone will do the math to determine the actual distance it takes for the bomb to hit terminal velocity and add it to 16k). Put the crosshair 50 yards on bearing 54 to hit the target." Same precision as before, slightly more difficult sighting?
Wiley.
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I'm not so sure about it.
Because I did, and I agree very much with one central part of bombero's statement.
I'm pouring oil on troubled waters and you're dropping matches. :lol
If you mean the lack of notice I think it wouldn't have been an issue without the bug.
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I've taken to 26's of late anyhow...did a couple runs at 9800', guns on that thing are a buzz saw
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I'm pouring oil on troubled waters and you're dropping matches. :lol
Dropping matches? You have no idea how fully ablaze I currently am ;)
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I've taken to 26's of late anyhow...did a couple runs at 9800', guns on that thing are a buzz saw
Don't I know it.
BJ229r is my friend.
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I've read the whole thread. I like the idea of the wind. I'm guessing that the assumption is that the wind only affects the Bomber and not the bomb. True?
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I've read the whole thread. I like the idea of the wind. I'm guessing that the assumption is that the wind only affects the Bomber and not the bomb. True?
No.
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What about the meat bombs if they're dropped at altitude? Would the wind blow them far enough away from the map room that they won't run once (if) they are on the ground? If wind is going to affect iron bombs, it should affect the meat bombs too - and probably more so since they are lighter and have a giant parachute to catch the wind.
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Don't I know it.
BJ229r is my friend.
remember!Direct pressure on the wound...if it's a head wound, don't use a tourniquet! :D
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During the weekdays, I fly almost exclusively heavy Lancs. I use them to target the bases that the hordes are upping from. Let's get real here, this is a cartoon flight sim. If I am not at 22K, I am not making it to target, then if I have to start adjusting runs based on wind direction, may take 3 passes to hit your targets. Again, highly unlikely at that altitude once your position is known, dead! I was half a base off on my targeting last night. There is no point in taking the time to climb out to that alt. and distance any longer. You simply will not survive a bomb run much lower than 20k as well as even make it to target. I used to be able to come in at 18k, almost never happens, needing to be at least 22k just to get to target. And at 22k, those bombs do not have lasers. You better know what you are doing and no guarantee.
Been here around 9 years, just wiped out my fun. I fly heavy 38's with a squad on Saturday nights, but thinking I need to find something else if this is not worked out quickly. I know my $15 bucks a month ain't woth squat nor is my opinion, but that is my opinion. We gonna get real like this, how about advanced radar to pick up the mass raids, get's silly at a point. How much is enough for realism? Taking the high altitude bombers out of the game takes an element out. 10k-15k bombers are just easy targets. I enjoyed the challenge of trying to get in above 20K. Was not easy.
Enough crying here. Good luck on both sides of this issue men. Both sides have valid points. Been fun. May or may not be around. Can't bomb any longer, need to find a new game. Will see how it goes.
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Gonna put my money where my mouth is after reading my post. Fun is gone, I am out. Will come back if they work it out. 9 years, pft...
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It's a bug Hitech says will be fixed next patch.
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No.
Then the bomb site cannot correct for the wind.
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Kudos to HTC for keeping the game fresh.
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Look at the post right above mine. The part where it says "drastic". :lol
Agreed that it needs more buffer between each zone so the gust's of wind aren't so drastic.
20 MPH horizontal wind shear is not drastic, I don't believe it's even considered significant as long as you aren't near the ground.
You're the first person I've heard mention "drastic". Many have mentioned transition. IE: 0 to 20mph in the distance of 1 vertical-foot.
:headscratch:
Since we're getting litteral, the drastic gusts/transition or the wind is drastic?
If you are at a direct headwind or tailwind, the automatic bombsight will compensate. If it is at a crosswind, it will not.
And that expalins a lot about the hours I wasted/tested this weekend with confusing/founding results. Thanks Spikes!
Found the cross wind bomb sight bub.
It is fixed for the next patch.
HiTech
Hotpatch, please :pray
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i have a question ,not with the winds but with the clouds,does anyone else have a rapid frame rate drop when flying thru them? i go from 60 to 10 its like flying with a strobe light going off in my cockpit :O
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Gonna put my money where my mouth is after reading my post. Fun is gone, I am out. Will come back if they work it out. 9 years, pft...
Let me be the first to say: Don't forget your ball and don't let the door scrape the backs of your ankles on the way out. Oh, and go back to school to learn how to read. HTC has said they are working on the "bug" and it will correct the issue in the next patch.
It has been awhile since a new version of AH has caused THIS much drama. Damn. :bhead
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Years ago I thought it would be awesome to have a real world weather environment like Real Envoronment Extreme for FS9/FSX but within flying minimums/maximums as per real WW2 flying operations. So that a thunderstorm wouldn't ground everyone.
Of course those running 10 year old computers would complain but it would be a great yup
enhancement to have real variable weatjeer.
Maybe we could have two arenas one for those
that keep up with technology in cpu/gpu's and those that still expect 60fps on their 10 year old business desktops. :ahand
<S>...-Gixer
Thunderstorm with raining sheep? :aok
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the fact that such a major bug "bombing is broken" could go into production in the MA is consterning. Loosing customers over this is a given.
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the fact that such a major bug "bombing is broken" could go into production in the MA is consterning. Loosing customers over this is a given.
Absolutely amazing, since the bug has existed for at least 3 or 4 years.
HiTech
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If customers quit every time their bombs missed...
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the fact that such a major bug "bombing is broken" could go into production in the MA is consterning. Loosing customers over this is a given.
"loosing"?
Forget it, he's rollin'....
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the fact that such a major bug "bombing is broken" could go into production in the MA is consterning. Loosing customers over this is a given.
The bug only affects anyone if he is bombing when his bomber is experiencing a side wind. For years, there has been no wind in the Main Arena, so in that case, there is nothing to notice. In scenarios, we routinely put it in wind specifically to make things more realistic and to make bombing harder. We didn't know it was a bug -- to us, it was something we liked. :aok
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Absolutely amazing, since the bug has existed for at least 3 or 4 years.
HiTech
that's even worst! :O
The bug only affects anyone if he is bombing when his bomber is experiencing a side wind. For years, there has been no wind in the Main Arena, so in that case, there is nothing to notice. In scenarios, we routinely put it in wind specifically to make things more realistic and to make bombing harder. We didn't know it was a bug -- to us, it was something we liked. :aok
yeah that was the next question in my head, if anyone actually used wind all these years lol
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i have a question ,not with the winds but with the clouds,does anyone else have a rapid frame rate drop when flying thru them? i go from 60 to 10 its like flying with a strobe light going off in my cockpit :O
Try disabling cloud bump mapping.
ack-ack
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The bug only affects anyone if he is bombing when his bomber is experiencing a side wind. For years, there has been no wind in the Main Arena, so in that case, there is nothing to notice. In scenarios, we routinely put it in wind specifically to make things more realistic and to make bombing harder. We didn't know it was a bug -- to us, it was something we liked. :aok
lol ^^ This
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The bug only affects anyone if he is bombing when his bomber is experiencing a side wind. For years, there has been no wind in the Main Arena, so in that case, there is nothing to notice. In scenarios, we routinely put it in wind specifically to make things more realistic and to make bombing harder. We didn't know it was a bug -- to us, it was something we liked. :aok
And as far as I know, using the manual (harder) calibration does account for side-drift...and we tend to use manual calibration often.
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And as far as I know, using the manual (harder) calibration does account for side-drift...and we tend to use manual calibration often.
That is correct, the bug was only with the auto calibration.
HiTech
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And as far as I know, using the manual (harder) calibration does account for side-drift...and we tend to use manual calibration often.
It does. In scenarios, we have used the same type of calibration as in the Main Arena, so had to take into account the side drift. It was sort of fun to have to do that, so I might miss it. :)
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thank you ack ack :cheers: :salute
Try disabling cloud bump mapping.
ack-ack
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Can someone clarify the status of wind in bombing currently or if there will be any changes to be made? Will you still have to adjust for wind now? Thank you for your replies in advance.
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At this moment there is no wind in the MA. It seems ti will come back with the next update, with your bombsight supposedly auto correcting for it. You plane however, does not and you'd have to watch your flight paths, especially when in a bomber and lining up on your targets.
I can only hope the wind layers will start higher than in that first run last weekend.
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At this moment there is no wind in the MA. It seems ti will come back with the next update, with your bombsight supposedly auto correcting for it. You plane however, does not and you'd have to watch your flight paths, especially when in a bomber and lining up on your targets.
I can only hope the wind layers will start higher than in that first run last weekend.
Thanks for the news/update Lusche.
I liked the wind, but I really didn't like the bug and headache for the last week. Made trying out the He111 properly and doing comparisons with Ju-88 runs (properly-) impossible. Slow and (relatively) soft bombers below 15k was suicide and just retarded (and I'm not talking about mags) to keep trying after the first few days (ontop of then finally figuring out (after wasting an ENTIRE WEEKEND) that the biggest pain was a Fn BUG!... I assure you HiTech, I (and others) pay $15 to fly He111s around at 9.9k in the MA to dodge late-war monsters for my entertainment.
Yeah, this bug/wind was an annoying-new-challenge that turned into a frustration after I read this thread on Monday. Maybe I'll do more than just check for a patch tonight after I get home late.
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Given some of the responses in here, I want to clarify that my whinging post was about MY issues. The bug has been identified and will be sorted, for which I am grateful.
I am more grateful to find that my mental health is declining at a slower rate than I thought, that there was actually a bug, not as has often been the case that my cognitive powers were on the decline again. I like bombing. You can annoy a lot more people when you have lots of bombs to play with.
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At this moment there is no wind in the MA. It seems ti will come back with the next update, with your bombsight supposedly auto correcting for it. You plane however, does not and you'd have to watch your flight paths, especially when in a bomber and lining up on your targets.
I can only hope the wind layers will start higher than in that first run last weekend.
:headscratch:
If the bomb site corrects for the wind, how does the plane not? what does that mean?
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:headscratch:
If the bomb site corrects for the wind, how does the plane not? what does that mean?
It means that the wind pushes your plane to the side and a properly calibrated bomsite will compensate for the planes side-drift by moving the crosshairs the proper amout to the side.
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It means that the wind pushes your plane to the side and a properly calibrated bomsite will compensate for the planes side-drift by moving the crosshairs the proper amout to the side.
So if you are not perfectly lined up on target when calibrating, any slight turn might change your direction (in relation to the wind) and cause a possible miss of the target? I would hope there is some sort of consequence of enabling wind.
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Thanks for the news/update Lusche.
I liked the wind, but I really didn't like the bug and headache for the last week.
Wind was turned off Monday morning, it was only active Friday afternoon until Monday morning.
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So if you are not perfectly lined up on target when calibrating, any slight turn might change your direction (in relation to the wind) and cause a possible miss of the target? I would hope there is some sort of consequence of enabling wind.
Correct, The sight is only good for the heading and speed it was calibrated on.
HiTech
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:headscratch:
If the bomb site corrects for the wind, how does the plane not? what does that mean?
While you bombs will fall on the spot the crosshair was on (no wind compensation necessary), you will have more difficult time to properly line up on your target if the wind comes from a side. Your plane (and thus crosshair) will wander diagonally over the ground.
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While you bombs will fall on the spot the crosshair was on (no wind compensation necessary), you will have more difficult time to properly line up on your target if the wind comes from a side. Your plane (and thus crosshair) will wander diagonally over the ground.
Well that's kind of what I thought. Doesn't that effectively mean that the bomb site compensates for the plane drift, not the wind pushing the bombs?
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Well that's kind of what I thought. Doesn't that effectively mean that the bomb site compensates for the plane drift, not the wind pushing the bombs?
No, it simply means that the plane is not flying in the direction its nose is pointed - it is flying a little sideways, but the bombs will still fall on the spot the crosshair was on when released.
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Nothing new we had wind 10 years ago to many people cried :cry at how hard it was and they turned it off LOL Now only if they would address the dive bombing Lancs and such.....
10 years ago we had a way to calibrate for wind. i would be fine with the wind turned on if we could get those tools back
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Wind was turned off Monday morning, it was only active Friday afternoon until Monday morning.
I logged in around 10/11am PST on monday and found it still enabled. I then went to the forums, readup on the thread and saw your post about it being a bug issue. Between then and recently I didnt' bother logging in as far as the MA to see if thee was any progress or resolvement.
You/Pyro didn't have to let us fly with it, after discovered, for much more than half the weekend. (Not to come off as a complete oscar without context, did I not already mention that this was a frustrating problem in the face of the usual challenges with bombing bellow 15k in the MA. And shortly after the "He111 Yeah!". I did have a very enjoyable strat bombing sortie this morning at 17-15k, wish I had the time for another after it, but hopefuly tonight.)
((Woohoo!!! New word filter for oscar, gigity!))
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I logged in around 10/11am PST
You didn't look very well then because is was changed at the wind was change at 9:12:43 CDT I.E. 7:12 PDT
I.E. As soon as we cam to the office Monday.
HiTech
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I wouldn't of logged on, at the earliest, about two hours after that - guess I didn't (I swore I saw the wind up on monday morning, with no map reset or anything, which brought me to this thread to read-up, which then made me realise it was a client bug (so no fix until patched) and assuming still enabled in the MAs).
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HA HA!
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You didn't look very well then because is was changed at the wind was change at 9:12:43 CDT I.E. 7:12 PDT
HiTech
Lagavulin coad? ;)
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You didn't look very well then because is was changed at the wind was change at 9:12:43 CDT I.E. 7:12 PDT
I.E. As soon as we cam to the office Monday.
HiTech
9:12? You guys are QUITE the go-getters ;)
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9:12? You guys are QUITE the go-getters ;)
Hey, it takes time to overcome the Monday morning glory.
Sundays evening Scotch always seem so harmless when it is still in the bottle.
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9:12? You guys are QUITE the go-getters ;)
No. 9:12:43. Not 9:12:42 or even 9:12:44. It was 9:12:43.