Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rogwar on April 15, 2013, 02:37:31 PM
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Prayers sent for the injured and their families. Looks pretty bad.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/15/explosion-reported-near-finish-line-boston-marathon-spokesman-says/
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:( some of the pics are just brutal
what a nightmare
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Just heard a report from Boston PD stating 3 dead so far. Tragic. Thoughts and prayers for the victims.
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:pray :uhoh :cry
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Terrible events. Frightening if its Al Qaeda, more so if its Korean in origin.
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AP is reporting at least one (possibly more) bomb has been found.
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now they are saying 2 more bombs have been found and are being disarmed. thoughts and prayers to go out...
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Terrible events. Frightening if its Al Qaeda, more so if its Korean in origin.
:lol
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Wow, prayers go out to the families.
Now the question is, who?
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I guess ignorance knows no limit. Thoughts and prayers to the victims and families.
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My assessment.
based off the footage provided, i believe this was a political statement by al-Qaeda. The 1st bomb went off in well view of the camera, and DIRECTLY behind the flags of other NATO countries (being the Boston Marathon is a large international event) that are contributing to the ISAF mission in Afghanistan. Although there were many injured, it doesn't seem the main intent was to cause mass causalities.
2 more bombs were found by Boston PD.
Explosion at the JFK Library.
Saudia Arabian man in custody ( on 9/11 most of the attackers were of Saudi descent)
well, i'm glad i'm re-enlisting tomorrow for another deployment to Afghanistan. And sending prayers to the families and people in the boston area.
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Jesus.
Small explosive, definitely deliberate. Contact explosive, not much fire in that blast. The person who did this is organized.
Heads are going to roll for this.
The hospital reports that the injuries caused by this blast have resulted in many amputations.
However the explosion wasn't massive, it didn't wipe out a whole block, or perhaps , two of the largest buildings in the world for example. I doubt we are looking at an organization, definitely not the Iranians or North Koreans. My bet would be on a homegrown Islamic extremist, or failing that an ultra right wing extremist perhaps fundamentalists protesting against the proposed gun control laws.
Regardless of who is responsible, I hope everyone gets themselves well as soon as possible.
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http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/6254
Scanner for Boston.
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:pray
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My assessment.
Saudia Arabian man in custody ( on 9/11 most of the attackers were of Saudi descent)
This is untrue, There is no one in custody, there making no comment on anything to do with anyone let alone a Saudia. Everyone is watching what they say, but you really think they would call out something that big mire hours after the event and it not being everywhere.
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Here is a video of it right on the ground.
http://now.msn.com/boston-marathon-blast-video-shows-how-fast-heroes-acted-to-help
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My prayers to those who were hurt and their families. :pray
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I'm thinking that it's domestic, an Oklahoma City style attack. We'll all find out soon enough. Prayers for the victims. May
God have mercy on the attacker(s), cause hopefully, we won't.
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #6
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Here is a video of it right on the ground.
http://now.msn.com/boston-marathon-blast-video-shows-how-fast-heroes-acted-to-help
That is just sick
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rules #4, #6
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See Rule #4
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uh oh, better ban assault bombs now.
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uh oh, better ban assault bombs now.
:aok
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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Stay on sites that are strictly PG if you want to keep him sheltered like that. Last I checked, this wasn't a PG forum.
lol
it's not a PG forum, but just a few minutes ago you had to type 'f|_|**ing' to get around the profanity filter
riiight
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lol
it's not a PG forum, but just a few minutes ago you had to type 'f|_|**ing' to get around the profanity filter
riiight
Just because they have a profanity filter means nothing. Again, *points to the photos of sexy women littered all over this thread*.
Even then that makes it at LEAST PG-13...and his kid was... :o .....3
That's like taking your kid to see Transformers (and the kid being, say 10) then getting upset at all the focus that gets tossed at Megan Fox, or the scene where what's his face is making out with the transformer in his dorm.
Oh and here we go:
5- Members are asked to not act as "back seat moderators". If you feel a post violates the forum rules, the use the "Report to Moderator" link in the post to report it.
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I still haven't seen any these pictures of women that are apparently strewn over the forum :headscratch:
I almost feel that I am being discriminated against!
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See Rule #4
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I'm thinking that it's domestic, an Oklahoma City style attack. We'll all find out soon enough. Prayers for the victims. May
God have mercy on the attacker(s), cause hopefully, we won't.
based upon..what?
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:headscratch: dang I must have missed boobs????? :cry :cry :bolt: sorry didn't see them either and I am always up for seein boobies. any how back on topic here. such a tragedy. what is going on in the US? seems this sort of thing is happening more frequently. I did watch the video and it was a lot like seeing the videos from 9/11, gave me goose bumps :frown: :pray :pray
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Just saw this (not saying it's legit), if it's true...kinda eerie.
http://www.squamishchief.com/article/20130415/SQUAMISH0101/130419985/-1/squamish/boston-runners-were-warned-squamish-man
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Way to hijack, rehijack, hijack the hijackers after the hijacking.....thread. But to hijack your own thread? Hats off.
Prayers to the Victims and their Families.
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Seeing as how these images are all over broadcast news and will be on the front page of every paper tomorrow, I think you guys taking offense to them being posted are going way overboard. MarineUS was not glorifying the event.
Hopefully they will track down those responsible and justice will be served.
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Seeing as how these images are all over broadcast news and will be on the front page of every paper tomorrow, I think you guys taking offense to them being posted are going way overboard. MarineUS was not glorifying the event.
Hopefully they will track down those responsible and justice will be served.
Thank you. :salute
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Every time I see someone post a link with multiple photos there's on average 3 or 4 random women modeling through those shots. (There was one in the not too distant past where someone was showing off jets).
Following a link posted on here is different to what you said before, which is that there are pictures of boobs all over place on this forum. Which you still haven't backed up by posting some links from recent threads, which I would have thought would be easy if there are so many of them.
Oh and just to note, I wasn't offended by the posted image, in fact I had already seen it on another forum and it didn't bother me. I was offended (or rather, startled) by the ridiculous posts by MarineUS, both raging at someone for asking for it to be taken down, and then making excuses that it was the other guys fault for browsing this forum which is apparently a well known repository of 'twisted' images and softcore pornography :headscratch:
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We should link this in with the thread about Chemtrails and conspiracy theories, already ridiculous stuff starting to come up about drones being seen above the marathon and a false flag drone missile strike etc :rofl Some people...
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Iv'e seen this blow up on Facebook (No pun intended.) and people are already screaming conspiracy. People are saying it was Al Qaeda, North Korea and even our own government.
What's really sad is that its a bunch of my older friends are the ones that are calling it a conspiracy, usually the 30-40 year old guys.
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Fact: At this time NO one knows who is responsible. At this time accusing anyone of doing this deed is pure conjecture.
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Would be nice to just keep this thread to "prayers for the victims and their families". The details and those responsible will get sorted out in due time.
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Would be nice to just keep this thread to "prayers for the victims and their families". The details and those responsible will get sorted out in due time.
^...love all the FBI and news / speculation news regurgitation guys we have here on the thread!
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See Rule #4
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See Rule #4
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INteresting take coombz
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See Rule #4
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That's sig material. Mind if I use that?
Oh, and it's the truth.
According to most of the Middle Eastern world
exactly what we are witnessing now only on a larger scale.
But again, PnG's are incoming. So I'm holding my tongue.
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I recall when the O'Club was shut down.
To you few posters who said things wrongly, poorly, and regrettably in the face of what has occurred, I'd be happy if HTC closed the O'Club once again.
I'm not one for acrimony. I can't understand why others thrive on it.
Prayers for Boston. Honors to those who helped at the scene. Contempt and wrath to the doers of this evil.
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See Rule #4
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my condolenses to those killed may you be held and comforted in the lords arms, to those injured i hope for a fast recovery and you all can put this behind you with time :pray and a big thank you to all the first responders when others rush out you people always rush in :salute
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See Rules #4, #6
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Yep having read about that guy he is an absolute legend :salute
Also the low number of fatalities (as currently reported) speaks really well for the Boston medics imo
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I recall browsing through AQ's "Inspire" magazine way back in 2010
https://publicintelligence.net/aqap-inspire-issue-10/
The incident in Boston to me really reeks new AQ tactics still at work that was highlighted in one of the Issues.
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It's a good thing the attacker(s) made the error of setting off a bomb next to hundreds of trained medical professionals. From the cops to the medical types at the runner's aid stations, there must have been a couple hundred people there within seconds who had some serious medical training for exactly this sort of thing. Heck, I even saw a couple of uniformed soldiers/airmen helping out (after they ripped down the crowd control barrier that was preventing assistance from getting in and out). From reports of the types of injuries sustained, a LOT more people would have died if they hadn't received medical treatment less than a minute after the blast.
How could other events be better prepared? We already see those automatic electronic defibrillators hanging on the walls all over the place, so how about some compact trauma kits anywhere large numbers of people gather? Based on the types of injuries we have seen in Iraq/Afghanistan from this exact type of improvised explosive device, they need nasopharyngeal airway tubes, battlefield compression bandages, battlefield tourniquets, quikclot gauze (magic stuff!), and gloves. Battlefield studies have shown that just those items can prevent up to 80% of "savable" combat casualties if used immediately, because people can bleed out or asphyxiate in just a matter of minutes, long before trained medical personnel usually arrive. The types of injuries sustained from these attacks are nearly identical to battlefield wounds. Put those supplies on the walls next to the AEDs, and you could save a LOT of people if this happened at a more typical large event with more people and fewer medical personnel who could respond in seconds. And it's pretty cheap too... Those items can last a long time if packaged properly.
If he has face/head/neck injuries but nose and facial bones appear intact, stuff the airway tube down his nose to behind his tongue.
If he is bleeding, apply compression bandage.
If he keeps bleeding, stuff in as much quikclot gauze as you can into the wound. Stuff in the whole package.
If he keeps bleeding, apply tourniquet.
If its in a spot that can't be tourniquetted, more quikclot, more pressure, elevate (unless its the head), and pray.
If he is bleeding from the chest and its bubbling, use the wrapper from the compression bandage directly on the wound to seal it up, tape it down if you have tape, and then use the compression bandage to hold it in place.
There is another category of injury that military members now get routine training for, pneumothorax. But that's some serious stuff poking people in the chest with a needle, and these relatively small terror bombs will probably only rarely cause a pneumothorax that can't wait until the ambulance shows up.
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Grey shirt guy from the pic of the guy in the wheelchair with his leg blown off.
http://showyou.com/reddit/y:pWHHWB3Jr60 (http://showyou.com/reddit/y:pWHHWB3Jr60)
Anyone else want to smack the folks filming this guy and asking for pictures and get them to find him a blanket or something? He's in shock after doing something amazing and they want pictures. help the guy for heaven's sake.
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Anyone else want to smack the folks filming this guy and asking for pictures and get them to find him a blanket or something? He's in shock after doing something amazing and they want pictures. help the guy for heaven's sake.
+1 too right!!!
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Man that is terrible for those invovled. More excuses to keep the perpetual war in the middle east going and potentialy start one in south East Asia.
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To get slightly back on topic...
This is also a really moronic post.
Apparently it would be more frightening if this was a Korean attack on the US :headscratch: I'm not a military expert myself, no, really? but I would have thought that if you are going to start a war (which is what a Korean attack on US soil would do) it would be better to attack a military target rather than a bunch of runners.
And if you are looking to incite a war, and curry support from your own people, and neighbouring countries by instigating disproportianate US retaliation, then it's an idea to hit civilian targets
Just shows how gullible and easily led some people are that this is one of the first things they think when an attack like this happens :(
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Anyone else want to smack the folks filming this guy and asking for pictures and get them to find him a blanket or something? He's in shock after doing something amazing and they want pictures. help the guy for heaven's sake.
+10000
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However the explosion wasn't massive, it didn't wipe out a whole block, or perhaps , two of the largest buildings in the world for example. I doubt we are looking at an organization, definitely not the Iranians or North Koreans. My bet would be on a homegrown Islamic extremist, or failing that an ultra right wing extremist perhaps fundamentalists protesting against the proposed gun control laws.
What makes you use that phrase so readily? Those that own guns and exercise that right are dangerous to you?
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Fact: At this time NO one knows who is responsible. At this time accusing anyone of doing this deed is pure conjecture.
And dangerous, but don't look for an apology, there was none made after Tucson and Aurora for dangerous and grossly negligent mislabeling...
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re: Korea... :O
And if you are looking to incite a war, and curry support from your own people, and neighbouring countries by instigating disproportianate US retaliation, then it's an idea to hit civilian targets
lol, yep, you're the expert! :rock
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re: Korea... :O
lol, yep, you're the expert! :rock
Not purporting to be an expert on anything. Merely an observation.
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See Rule #14
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What makes you use that phrase so readily? Those that own guns and exercise that right are dangerous to you?
Yes, they are. Too many don't secure their weapons, and too many talk freely about what they would do if given the "opportunity" to use them. Too many gun owners seem anxious to use those weapons, and that terrifies me.
Unfortunately, too often, what is permitted, or a "right" isn't right.
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What makes you use that phrase so readily?
History?
(http://static.igossip.com/photos_2/march_2011/mcveigh.jpg)
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Fact: At this time NO one knows who is responsible. At this time accusing anyone of doing this deed is pure conjecture.
What he said - nothing good will come of blaming anyone or any group without any real proof
Tronsky
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Funny, watching them play both sides of the ball, simultaneously..
Remember in brave heart? The Leprotic father of Robert the Bruce??
'You will support this rebellion from our lands in the north, and oppose them from our lands in the south..'
On one hand, you have the Headcheese Mouthpiece, saying we must withhold judgement until more facts are known.. But on the other hand, same group has an army of owned Presstitutes and internet shills out blaming their enemies IMMEDIATELY.. Perception placement, the first and most basic rule of Propaganda..
And if you point that out, you get pigpiled.. :lol
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The over-and-under says it will take an ounce of phlegm to pronounce the guy's name
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Sad world we live in.
:pray
Oz
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I hope to see some of the survivors returning to run on blades.
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Statistically most bombings in America has been perpetrated by white Americans. A couple of years ago we also first thought it was Islamic terror that struck our country, but it turned out to be a tall, blond, blue-eyed Christian-extremist. Time will tell.
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Statistically most bombings in America has been perpetrated by white Americans. A couple of years ago we also first thought it was Islamic terror that struck our country, but it turned out to be a tall, blond, blue-eyed Christian-extremist. Time will tell.
Since you have the statistics can you break down all bombings in America by race and nationality for us?
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There are trends....from the mid 60's up unTIL 9/11,buncha white dudes/dudettes woulda been a safe bet. Since then, somewhat less so
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Since you have the statistics can you break down all bombings in America by race and nationality for us?
Well, this is a bit of a start although you will have to sift out the bombings ...
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html (http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/wrjp255a.html)
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The act of terrorism by bombing is nothing new, not to this nation..and not to the world.
:pray For the dead & wounded.
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I am convinced that some judiciously placed bomb sniffing canines patrolling key points along the route (start and finish lines being the first places that come to mind) could have saved life and limb.
I was in NYC at the 911 memorial about a month ago, on a Tuesday afternoon. Neither a holiday nor a weekend, yet we couldn't walk 1/2 block without seeing a K-9 officer/handler, one of those handy wireless cameras on a utility pole or a NYPD "watch tower".
I am inclined to think that security could have been tighter at such an event, considering the wide variety of representatives from different countries and the estimated 500,000 spectators that are expected every year.
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Very sad indeed. It makes me angry that anybody would target people like that. Thoughts and prayers to my cousins in the USA and I hope that justice is swift and delivered in full measure.
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Anyone else want to smack the folks filming this guy and asking for pictures and get them to find him a blanket or something? He's in shock after doing something amazing and they want pictures. help the guy for heaven's sake.
Amen Dan.
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I hope the injured recover and they quickly find out who did it.
Have the conspiracy theorists claimed it was a couple of missiles yet?
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Since you have the statistics can you break down all bombings in America by race and nationality for us?
On the FBI’s official website, there exists a chronological list of all terrorist attacks committed on U.S. soil from the year 1980 all the way to 2005.
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05
(http://i1.wp.com/www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/terrorismbyevent.jpg?resize=336%2C500)
(http://i2.wp.com/www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/piechart2.jpg?resize=491%2C491)
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Odd that it only starts in 1980, there were a crapload in the 60's/early 70's....wonder if the political affiliations of the bombers have anything to do with that
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I am convinced that some judiciously placed bomb sniffing canines patrolling key points along the route (start and finish lines being the first places that come to mind) could have saved life and limb.
From what I have read there were multiple canine bomb units at the event. Specifically the finish line area was swept twice during the race by a canine bomb unit.
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From what I have read there were multiple canine bomb units at the event. Specifically the finish line area was swept twice during the race by a canine bomb unit.
If that is the case and the bombs were made from conventional materials, the sweeps weren't often/thorough enough or the handlers weren't paying attention to the dogs.
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Regarding security comments, Vonmessa, did you see how many police where present just in the immediate explosion areas? I counted 8 uniformed cops that were there within 10 seconds of the blast, on the video on uTube that is about 30 yards from the explosion. How much more security can you have? There were cops everywhere, literally every 20 yards along that part of the route by the looks of the video. Also, many people today are saying that prior to the bombings there was a HUGE police presence, with many dogs, so many, that people were asking if some sort of event had happened, to which the police were replying "it's a drill" - all this prior to the explosions. I've read this on many news sites today.
So, if that actually turns out to be fact, and not just internet speak, there would have been such a huge police presence that people took notice and asked them what was up. And even with that huge presence, the person responsible for the bombings slipped in and achieved his objectives, at least partially. Either way, from the video I've seen alone, there was a lot of uniformed police, and who knows how many plainclothes units around.
Scary to consider, that with an area saturated with law enforcement, a person can STILL get in and create havoc. Like JFK said, all you have to do is be willing to trade your life for theirs, and anyone can kill him (the President). Well, apparently it goes further, and all you have to do is be able to build small bombs, and you can kill at will in a country with hugely impressive security system/police force/FBI/whatever, and even survive to do it again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=046MuD1pYJg
At risk of a ban over posting something, I want you to see that video. I was viewer number 124, now there is 9 million views a day later. It's not really a "NSFW" video, you can't really get a look at the hurt people thank god, but you do get a good look at the blast and the response right after it. Look at around 50 seconds after the blast, there is dozens of cops if you freeze frame and count, and even just after the initial blast, you can see one tall cop with his sidearm out, and about 4 o 5 others (top of their heads) within just seconds of the blast. I don't think anyone can fault the powers that be with having a lack of law enforcement in the vicinity. I just think that they weren't in an optimal location to prevent something like this - they were there mainly to protect the runners by the look of their deployment, not watch the crowd for possible terrorism.
I guess I have my perspective on this, having been in convoys hit almost daily for a long period of time, and having the building I slept in directly bombed twice. Securing against this type of thing is NOT easy. We had the Ghurka's protecting our building once, and you've never met meaner or more thorough guards anywhere, I guarantee it. Bombs still went off. Triple Canopy had Delta and Devgru living in their building in Iraq when the company first began ops inside Iraq. That building still got hit, with the best, the absolute VERY best in the world occupying and guarding it.
There is no defense, no absolute way to stop this, and that's the horror of it IMO. No amount of law enforcement, security, anything can prevent a determined attacker with an IQ over 100. Get a group of dedicated guys acting together...well, then you get Afghanistan/Iraq type situations, with this happening daily in multiple locations. I pray it doesn't happen over here.
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If that is the case and the bombs were made from conventional materials, the sweeps weren't often/thorough enough or the handlers weren't paying attention to the dogs.
As I said, they looked to be paying particular attention to the runners by my observation of how they were deployed. You are likely right - even with the huge dog presence, the bombs could have been missed by sloppy work/training, or they more likely were just dropped and then detonated quickly in order to exploit gaps in the security that whoever did this observed. As I've said, it really isn't all that hard to do, and if the best in the world can get hit, anybody can.
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Regarding security comments, Vonmessa, did you see how many police where present just in the immediate explosion areas? I counted 8 uniformed cops that were there within 10 seconds of the blast, on the video on uTube that is about 30 yards from the explosion. How much more security can you have? There were cops everywhere, literally every 20 yards along that part of the route by the looks of the video. Also, many people today are saying that prior to the bombings there was a HUGE police presence, with many dogs, so many, that people were asking if some sort of event had happened, to which the police were replying "it's a drill" - all this prior to the explosions. I've read this on many news sites today.
So, if that actually turns out to be fact, and not just internet speak, there would have been such a huge police presence that people took notice and asked them what was up. And even with that huge presence, the person responsible for the bombings slipped in and achieved his objectives, at least partially. Either way, from the video I've seen alone, there was a lot of uniformed police, and who knows how many plainclothes units around.
Scary to consider, that with an area saturated with law enforcement, a person can STILL get in and create havoc. Like JFK said, all you have to do is be willing to trade your life for theirs, and anyone can kill him (the President). Well, apparently it goes further, and all you have to do is be able to build small bombs, and you can kill at will in a country with hugely impressive security system/police force/FBI/whatever, and even survive to do it again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=046MuD1pYJg
At risk of a ban over posting something, I want you to see that video. I was viewer number 124, now there is 9 million views a day later. It's not really a "NSFW" video, you can't really get a look at the hurt people thank god, but you do get a good look at the blast and the response right after it. Look at around 50 seconds after the blast, there is dozens of cops if you freeze frame and count, and even just after the initial blast, you can see one tall cop with his sidearm out, and about 4 o 5 others (top of their heads) within just seconds of the blast. I don't think anyone can fault the powers that be with having a lack of law enforcement in the vicinity. I just think that they weren't in an optimal location to prevent something like this - they were there mainly to protect the runners by the look of their deployment, not watch the crowd for possible terrorism.
I guess I have my perspective on this, having been in convoys hit almost daily for a long period of time, and having the building I slept in directly bombed twice. Securing against this type of thing is NOT easy. We had the Ghurka's protecting our building once, and you've never met meaner or more thorough guards anywhere, I guarantee it. Bombs still went off. Triple Canopy had Delta and Devgru living in their building in Iraq when the company first began ops inside Iraq. That building still got hit, with the best, the absolute VERY best in the world occupying and guarding it.
There is no defense, no absolute way to stop this, and that's the horror of it IMO. No amount of law enforcement, security, anything can prevent a determined attacker with an IQ over 100. Get a group of dedicated guys acting together...well, then you get Afghanistan/Iraq type situations, with this happening daily in multiple locations. I pray it doesn't happen over here.
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As I said, they looked to be paying particular attention to the runners by my observation of how they were deployed. You are likely right - even with the huge dog presence, the bombs could have been missed by sloppy work/training, or they more likely were just dropped and then detonated quickly in order to exploit gaps in the security that whoever did this observed. As I've said, it really isn't all that hard to do, and if the best in the world can get hit, anybody can.
I agree that there was a lot of security.
I hope you agree that there is a distinct difference between a lot of security and properly deployed security.
I also agree that securing against this type of thing is not easy.
I would like to add that I think civilian law-enforcement officers do not get the training that they should for these types of situations.
Their response was incredible, swift and commendable.
I refuse to accept or admit that this is unstoppable. It is what gives them their control and is exactly what terrorists want.
They want folks to be afraid of them.
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Prayers to the victims and their families. These sorts of things are life altering for everyone. It's very sad, indeed.
I refuse to accept or admit that this is unstoppable. It is what gives them their control and is exactly what terrorists want.
You're right, fear is where they gain power. But Gman is also right... you cannot stop any attack that is limited only by imagination. The best we can do defensively is try to limit organization capacity and remain vigilant. The scary part of this attack is that it seems the organizational level of the attackers was pretty small given that there apparently was no 'chatter' about this beforehand. I'm sure some terrorist somewhere already sat down and figured the best odds he has to kill Americans in America is to limit the number of people and communication needed to carry out an attack, but to me it's a new concept.
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The only way to defeat terrorism is not being afraid. Not change the way you live. To the people who are affected directly each terrorist event is a huge tragedy. However, to the public as a whole terrorism is an almost negligible health risk.
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The only way to defeat terrorism is not being afraid. Not change the way you live. To the people who are affected directly each terrorist event is a huge tragedy. However, to the public as a whole terrorism is an almost negligible health risk.
That says a mouthful.
I understand that there is not a 100% fool-proof method for stopping this kind of thing.
Humans are fallible. Folks willing to commit these kinds of acts are in-tune to the mistakes that most are likely to make and exploit them.
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Agree with a lot of that VonMessa, just not all.
I do agree with Gsholz completely, I just think that a certain level of acceptance is required before you can truly go about fighting this type of attack. There are a lot of ways to combat it, from techno wizbang jamming systems that go after radio detonators, to more vigilant human assets - the list is endless. Those of us on defense vs IED's are at a huge disadvantage obviously, the enemy having surprise completely in his favor, which is an advantage that is impossible to counter. I put it to you this way Von - if you were to play blue team, and to go back to the marathon, and deploy security teams how you felt would make this bombing impossible, I guarantee me playing as red team would be able to find a way to exploit some gap, and make it happen. Part of my job was having to do precisely this in the hottest place on earth in terms of these things going off, to attempt to find a way to prevent it. I give you the tens of thousands of explosions that have happened despite the efforts of thousands of people, people better at it even than I am, in tying to stop it.
It can't be stopped.
That doesn't mean you don't fight back, or attempt to stop it, you just have to accept that you'll never completely win or succeed. Otherwise, insanity is on the other side of that door. I agree completely that we've gotten complacent, particularly the higher end L/E forces like the FBI, RCMP up here, etc. That goes with the times (not going to get political at all). This makes the enemies job far easier, and you're absolutely right IMO, more can and should be done in terms of training. But no amount of training, vigilance, numbers, whatever, can ever possibly stop it, or guarantee safety. It's the price we pay to live the way we do, and when you've been close to an explosion like this one in Boston, and lost people, family, friends, co workers...it's a big price to pay, but we pay it, and continue to pay it.
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Regarding security comments, Vonmessa, did you see how many police where present just in the immediate explosion areas? I counted 8 uniformed cops that were there within 10 seconds of the blast, on the video on uTube that is about 30 yards from the explosion. How much more security can you have? There were cops everywhere, literally every 20 yards along that part of the route by the looks of the video. Also, many people today are saying that prior to the bombings there was a HUGE police presence, with many dogs, so many, that people were asking if some sort of event had happened, to which the police were replying "it's a drill" - all this prior to the explosions. I've read this on many news sites today.
So, if that actually turns out to be fact, and not just internet speak, there would have been such a huge police presence that people took notice and asked them what was up. And even with that huge presence, the person responsible for the bombings slipped in and achieved his objectives, at least partially. Either way, from the video I've seen alone, there was a lot of uniformed police, and who knows how many plainclothes units around.
Scary to consider, that with an area saturated with law enforcement, a person can STILL get in and create havoc. Like JFK said, all you have to do is be willing to trade your life for theirs, and anyone can kill him (the President). Well, apparently it goes further, and all you have to do is be able to build small bombs, and you can kill at will in a country with hugely impressive security system/police force/FBI/whatever, and even survive to do it again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=046MuD1pYJg
At risk of a ban over posting something, I want you to see that video. I was viewer number 124, now there is 9 million views a day later. It's not really a "NSFW" video, you can't really get a look at the hurt people thank god, but you do get a good look at the blast and the response right after it. Look at around 50 seconds after the blast, there is dozens of cops if you freeze frame and count, and even just after the initial blast, you can see one tall cop with his sidearm out, and about 4 o 5 others (top of their heads) within just seconds of the blast. I don't think anyone can fault the powers that be with having a lack of law enforcement in the vicinity. I just think that they weren't in an optimal location to prevent something like this - they were there mainly to protect the runners by the look of their deployment, not watch the crowd for possible terrorism.
I guess I have my perspective on this, having been in convoys hit almost daily for a long period of time, and having the building I slept in directly bombed twice. Securing against this type of thing is NOT easy. We had the Ghurka's protecting our building once, and you've never met meaner or more thorough guards anywhere, I guarantee it. Bombs still went off. Triple Canopy had Delta and Devgru living in their building in Iraq when the company first began ops inside Iraq. That building still got hit, with the best, the absolute VERY best in the world occupying and guarding it.
There is no defense, no absolute way to stop this, and that's the horror of it IMO. No amount of law enforcement, security, anything can prevent a determined attacker with an IQ over 100. Get a group of dedicated guys acting together...well, then you get Afghanistan/Iraq type situations, with this happening daily in multiple locations. I pray it doesn't happen over here.
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As I said, they looked to be paying particular attention to the runners by my observation of how they were deployed. You are likely right - even with the huge dog presence, the bombs could have been missed by sloppy work/training, or they more likely were just dropped and then detonated quickly in order to exploit gaps in the security that whoever did this observed. As I've said, it really isn't all that hard to do, and if the best in the world can get hit, anybody can.
This ^
Also, thanks for your service tundra :cheers:
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One last thing, it's easy to criticize the L/E deployments in hindsight. If something had targeted the runners, we would be saying how great it was that the defenses were focused on the them, as they appeared to be, and how the foresight of the authorities was great to have done it that way. That's not what or who was targeted. If we could go back in time, and focus the police presence on the crowds in the vicinity of the finish line, it may or may not have stopped the attack, but everyone would say that the focus was in the right place.
Then, maybe the area after the finish line would have been targeted instead....it goes on and on, and my point is you cannot possibly ever have enough assets to protect absolutely everything - you can only be strong in some places, it's much like a battlefield in some respects. A smart trained enemy will observe and detect your weak points, and hit you hard there. It's just how it goes, it's been the same for thousands of years of conflict.
I admire the people of Boston, not just the L/E but everyone who moved toward to blasts to try and save people they didn't even know. Considering that secondary devices are a common trick used by our enemies, it took a lot of courage for those medics, cops, doctors, and civilians to place themselves in harms way for their fellow man. This is something that our enemies can't grasp, that as much damage as they inflict, they are in fact making us stronger, and thus defeating their own purposes.
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The same way you associate firing AK-47s on American troops while blowing up Humvee's with IEDs as "terrorism"
Whoever is responsible obviously doesn't have the ability to combat the US Military directly, hence the only ability to strike is at the civilian population, if you cannot defeat an enemy's military in battle, you break the will of the people supporting it.
Its an unfortunate reality.
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Never mind.
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Prove me wrong then Ack-Ack.
Show us how wonderfully intelligent you are.
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Just reading through this thread has made my already low IQ drop even lower.
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^^^ Agreed.
I'm getting called Stupid and Ignorant for stating the facts.
Never knew that was a crime however.
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^^^ Agreed.
I'm getting called Stupid and Ignorant for stating the facts.
Never knew that was a crime however.
Perhaps you should start out by looking up the definition of 'irony'. Not that there aren't a multitude of other wrong things in your post.
"the irony is this attack on freedom, my result in freedom's suicide."
*facepalm*
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Perhaps you should start out by looking up the definition of 'irony'. Not that there aren't a multitude of other wrong things in your post.
*facepalm*
:rofl
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See Rule #14
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See Rule #14
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The same way you associate firing AK-47s on American troops while blowing up Humvee's with IEDs as "terrorism"
Whoever is responsible obviously doesn't have the ability to combat the US Military directly, hence the only ability to strike is at the civilian population, if you cannot defeat an enemy's military in battle, you break the will of the people supporting it.
Its an unfortunate reality.
Wrong, attacking troops is completely different from attacking civilians if you cant see the difference you are lost.
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Point of View, is important.
It is... frankly, your comments are about as insensitive as Americans posting (on an Australian forum) insults regarding Anzac Day.
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(http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g256/BloodyBandage/PAcmanwisdom_zps7dbb0425.jpg)
Pacman wisdom.
:rofl But would be even better on a philosoraptor.
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I was reading that the guy with the bloody flag that had helped save the man who lost his legs, had himself lost a son in Iraq in 2004 and later lost his second son to suicide due to depression over the loss of his big brother.
Helluva man to have kept himself together to save someone else considering what he's already endured.
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I was reading that the guy with the bloody flag that had helped save the man who lost his legs, had himself lost a son in Iraq in 2004 and later lost his second son to suicide due to depression over the loss of his big brother.
Helluva man to have kept himself together to save someone else considering what he's already endured.
From what I read about it, he did lose it. tried to kill himself when they let him know about his first sons death... as to the seconds suicide, they place the blame 100% on the first sons death, now I don't know about you but having my father try to burn himself to death on the top of a car might not have helped that much. He now drives everywhere in a pickup dedicated to his first son protesting the war.
Saying that it sounds like many people stepped up and helped at that time. I think the reason he has become the face of those people is from what I understand, A: there is video of him racing and jumping over that face to help, B: the picture of him running next to the wheelchair with the man who is missing most of his leg. To top that I heard he has been in the news before with the tragic back story, that news stations will latch onto that.
Really every person who walked/ran towards that site to help should be prasied for their quick response. The first aid given to the wounded in the field, saved many lives and limbs.
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I wouldntbe too hard on a guy who lost two of his kids. How people react to that is hard to predict. That's being said as someone who also lost two. I tend to be sympathetic to members of that particular club.
The comment shouldn't detract from the efforts of all those that ran to help. There were clearly many first responders in action thankfully :aok
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All this bickering and "im right you're wrong" crap is pretty damn childish. Im disgusted by it personally. Send your good thoughts, energy and pray to whatever higher being you believe in for those lost, hurt and affected by the bombing.
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I was reading that the guy with the bloody flag that had helped save the man who lost his legs, had himself lost a son in Iraq in 2004 and later lost his second son to suicide due to depression over the loss of his big brother.
Helluva man to have kept himself together to save someone else considering what he's already endured.
I read today that the man who lost his legs being wheel-chaired away is expected to recover as fully as one cane after losing both legs. I've seen the gruesome picture, but the man in the Tough Ruck shirt saved his life by making sure he didn't bleed out by pinching his femoral artery (you can see that in the picture)
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Wrong, attacking troops is completely different from attacking civilians if you cant see the difference you are lost.
x 2
Plawranc, troll patrol, or troll mole? Where do you get your half a world a way and yet so informed opinion about all things regarding freedom and the USA? Furthermore, where does your desire to do this come from? I don't meddle in telling Aussie's what is right/wrong about their country. In what should be a time of grieving and mourning for us here, maybe you could give us some space and time. Frankly, if you are not a citizen of the US and aren't offering constructive discourse please move along, you aren't helping.
Also, there was a lot of acts of terror committed by and also against tories. I'll let you take a guess which direction was more prevalent...kinda easy to do when the guys with guns (redcoats) are right there to protect. However, what does this have to do with terrible event in Boston?
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Yes, they are. Too many don't secure their weapons, and too many talk freely about what they would do if given the "opportunity" to use them. Too many gun owners seem anxious to use those weapons, and that terrifies me.
Too many that what??? Too many that you hear, too many that you've seen? Where did you see/hear all of this?
"Unfortunately, too often, what is permitted, or a "right" isn't right." That part of your statement is what terrifies me.
I can't say what may need to be said here, but most that concur with me have already thought about the real reason we are allowed to have guns in America, but I can give you a hint, it's to stop/protect from those who would turn this into Nazi Germany.
I'm glad to know where you stand.
I'm done with this thread, going to get into trouble if I come back I'm sure. If you feel you want to, pm me.
My prayers and thoughts go out to all the victims, may god assist in their healing and grieving of this terrible event.
:salute
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My love and condolances are for the victims and their families and friends. My undying gratitude is for those that ran to the trouble when many more were running away.
They are special human beings who, not knowing if other danger awaited, thought of others instead of themselves. That my friends is glory and bravery whether it be on
a battlefield or disasters like which occurred in Boston. We all OWE them our thanks and gratitude. Having buried a father recently who was a decorated veteran of WWII
buried with full Military honors awakens you to the fact that life is not all about ME! It shouldn't take a tragedy such as this to point that out.
As for the perpetrators of this heinous act....for those of us who believe...there IS double jeopardy. You may have to think about that comment.
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Already, there are radio show hosts throwing accusations that it was an inside job.
These guys are more damaging than the terrorists themselves.
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I was reading that the guy with the bloody flag that had helped save the man who lost his legs, had himself lost a son in Iraq in 2004 and later lost his second son to suicide due to depression over the loss of his big brother.
Helluva man to have kept himself together to save someone else considering what he's already endured.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0f3_1366121231
Interview with the guy shortly after everything happened.
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Already, there are radio show hosts throwing accusations that it was an inside job.
These guys are more damaging than the terrorists themselves.
This was an inside job, Al Qaeda would have been all over now, claiming credit. This has all the hallmarks of the Atlanta Olympic bombing, and the reasoning and perpetrator is likely of the same mindset, right wing anti-government. Couple this with the letters being received by Obama and Republican Senator Shelby(who backs some forms of gun control) that were possibly laced with Ricin. This says it's terror caused by someone who opposed gun control. Say or think what you want of me, but I believe it is someone who is an extreme right wing believer who has lost all sense of humanity. No, I don't believer everyone who opposed gun controls are extremists, just misguided.
Edit: Strangely, when i had read the article, Shelby's name was listed, I swear, because I copied it to research him on the net. This was wrong. The Senator who received the ricin letter was Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss, and there is not much that I have found yet to give a reason why he might have been attacked. My apologies.
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This was an inside job, Al Qaeda would have been all over now, claiming credit. This has all the hallmarks of the Atlanta Olympic bombing, and the reasoning and perpetrator is likely of the same mindset, right wing anti-government. Couple this with the letters being received by Obama and Republican Senator Shelby(who backs some forms of gun control) that were possibly laced with Ricin. This says it's terror caused by someone who opposed gun control. Say or think what you want of me, but I believe it is someone who is an extreme right wing believer who has lost all sense of humanity. No, I don't believer everyone who opposed gun controls are extremists, just misguided.
The Unibomber wasn't a right winger, actually just the opposite.
Just saying. :)
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The Unibomber wasn't a right winger, actually just the opposite.
Just saying. :)
I never mentioned the unibomber, only Atlanta, which WAS right wing extremism, as was Oklahoma City.
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Read the Unibomber's manifesto.
Born and raised liberal he was.
Ripsnort, NOBODY mentioned the Unibomber except you. What is it that you are trying to say? This incident, being accompanied by the ricin letters being sent to Obama and a moderate Republican who might possibly support the gun legislation (this is not a political statement only trying to tie things together), has the markings of a political statement not an Al Qaeda attack.
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McVeigh was a paranoid conspiracy theorist with a military skill set. His personal political views had nothing to do with the crime he did. In his own twisted world view he was a patriot.
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Read the Unibomber's manifesto.
Born and raised liberal he was.
Never said he wasn't. Your point? :headscratch:
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His personal political views had nothing to do with the crime he did.
They had everything to do with the crime he did.
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Here's a link to some photos that a group from 4chan put together that show some suspicious people in the crowd with backpacks. Interesting.
http://imgur.com/a/sUrnA
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Sooooo....we have ONE certified right-wing nutjob bomber in the last 5 decades.....skipping the dozen-odd LEFT wing nutjob bombings in the 60's......the myriad of 'middle eastern' attempts in the last decade and change....what is there about a buncha white people at a race that's gonna make that a target for the afore-mentioned right-winger? I could see a IRS building....mebbe an ATF.....FBI...even the post office where you have to mail your taxes. What motivation would be here?
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Nobody is skipping anything. Right now we don't know who is responsible. It could be Illinois Nazi's or Greenpeace for all we know right now.
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I hate Illinois Nazis.
ack-ack
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Sooooo....we have ONE certified right-wing nutjob bomber in the last 5 decades.....skipping the dozen-odd LEFT wing nutjob bombings in the 60's......the myriad of 'middle eastern' attempts in the last decade and change....what is there about a buncha white people at a race that's gonna make that a target for the afore-mentioned right-winger? I could see a IRS building....mebbe an ATF.....FBI...even the post office where you have to mail your taxes. What motivation would be here?
Two, actually, not to mention David Koresh in Waco...wack job, right wing gun "rights" backer..had a danged armory there...How many other right wing militias have been targeted by ATF/FBI?
This was a statement made on PATRIOT'S Day? This idiot perpetrator very possibly considers himself a Patriot...then what about all the bombings of abortion clinics, murders of abortion doctors...(I'm ANTI-abortion)? Are those not right wing/religious terrorist attacks?
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Copprhead, there isn't a right wing or left wing when you have a bomb blow up in your face. It's just terrorism or enemy action - that's it. The lunacy of every side, creed, and religion in the world has been used to justify targeting civilians and soldiers alike.
Maybe if you survived being hit yourself you might realize this, but somehow, I doubt it.
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My guess is
Mr. White
With a Backpack
At the finish line.
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Two, actually, not to mention David Koresh in Waco...wack job, right wing gun "rights" backer..had a danged armory there...How many other right wing militias have been targeted by ATF/FBI?
This was a statement made on PATRIOT'S Day? This idiot perpetrator very possibly considers himself a Patriot...then what about all the bombings of abortion clinics, murders of abortion doctors...(I'm ANTI-abortion)? Are those not right wing/religious terrorist attacks?
How did the people at Waco target us? We went in there, manged to kill a buncha women and children who weren't bothering anyone
How many other right wing militias have been targeted by ATF/FBI
Not sure what the point of that is.....if you're investigated, the accepted response is to blow up a buncha white people at a race?
This was a statement made on PATRIOT'S Day? This idiot perpetrator very possibly considers himself a Patriot
It was ALSO made on a day when there were a buncha white Americans all crammed into one space.....not how how someone who fancies himself a patriot feels justified in blowing up a buncha peaceful civilians
then what about all the bombings of abortion clinics, murders of abortion doctors.
The vast % of those bombings were pretty much one guy....and WHEN was the last one?. (I'm also pretty sure those people weren't there to celebrate abortions)
IT fits the previous bombings that Israel has been seeing for decades....does that mean a 'middle-easterner' did it? more likely than anyone else.....but we may find out it was some dumb wasp kid from a nearby town
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This has gone completely off the rails.