Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: 800nate800 on April 19, 2013, 03:32:18 PM

Title: Perk transfer
Post by: 800nate800 on April 19, 2013, 03:32:18 PM
Titles says all Like pand or someone that has a  Crap ton of useless perks send them to someone.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Arlo on April 19, 2013, 03:34:26 PM
Have you read the FrauB thread in general?
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Lusche on April 19, 2013, 03:38:06 PM
That would allow for perk trading with all the ugly consequences of that.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: waystin2 on April 19, 2013, 04:15:33 PM
(http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm134/waystin2/nope_logo2.gif) (http://s295.photobucket.com/user/waystin2/media/nope_logo2.gif.html)
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: 800nate800 on April 19, 2013, 04:55:51 PM
Have you read the FrauB thread in general?
yes what about it.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Arlo on April 19, 2013, 04:58:38 PM
yes what about it.

Perk farming then perk transferring. How long before perk selling? Not something I think (dare I say) HTC would appreciate.

Earn your perks. Beggars can't be choosers.  :D

No offense ... just .. think about it.  :)
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Wiley on April 19, 2013, 05:07:41 PM
Just... no.  Perks for profit would only lead to dweebery and lameness the likes of which has never been seen before.

Also, a personal pet peeve, the day they add this and I log in to see 'Anybody got any spare perks?' spam in the channels is the day I turn off all comms.

Wiley.
Title: PERKS FOR SELL!!!!
Post by: Volron on April 19, 2013, 05:30:23 PM
Selling Perks!!!

100 Perks, 10 dollars.
250 Perks, 20 dollars.
500 Perks, 40 dollars.
1000 Perks, 80 dollars.

Discount to those who "help" me get perks!!!

 :D
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: EagleDNY on April 19, 2013, 05:43:58 PM
That would allow for perk trading with all the ugly consequences of that.

How about being able to designate a percentage of the perks you earn for squad use?   I like flying the B-29 - I have a ton of bomber perks, and earn plenty more all the time.   It would be worth it to me to be able to send 10% or 20% of my bomber perks into a "pool" that the squad could use to help fund more B-29 strat raids on squad nite. 
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 05:48:42 PM
How about being able to designate a percentage of the perks you earn for squad use?   I like flying the B-29 - I have a ton of bomber perks, and earn plenty more all the time.   It would be worth it to me to be able to send 10% or 20% of my bomber perks into a "pool" that the squad could use to help fund more B-29 strat raids on squad nite. 

why not just take them to early war or mid war and let them vulch you?


semp
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: EagleDNY on April 19, 2013, 06:15:42 PM
why not just take them to early war or mid war and let them vulch you?

semp

Because one activity (doing bombing raids and letting the squad have a percentage of the perks for the squad pool) is legitimate play, and the other is gamey BULL$h!^
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 07:11:47 PM
Because one activity (doing bombing raids and letting the squad have a percentage of the perks for the squad pool) is legitimate play, and the other is gamey BULL$h!^

actually both are gamey.  I have over 5k points gathered 1 perk for every 10 kills in my ponyd.  I dont use them nor I plan to.  but to me I dont understand how anybody over 1 month in the game doesnt have enough perks to fly any perk plane/gv anytime he feels like it, eny permitting.

I see lots of players that have been around for years and not having enough perks to even fly a zero (sarcasm intended).  the funniest thing I ever heard was when some long time player proudly announced that he had gotten over 60 perks in one flight.  when I asked him how many perks he had, he replied 60  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl.

and these are the guys you want to transfer perks to?  :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead


semp


Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Lusche on April 19, 2013, 07:18:24 PM
  but to me I dont understand how anybody over 1 month in the game doesnt have enough perks to fly any perk plane/gv anytime he feels like it, eny permitting.

The average player (2 weekers omitted!) makes something like 2-3 perks per hour. Really good, significantly above average player can make 8-9 per hour in fighter mode in the long run. And yes, that's including the occasional "30 perks in one sortie!"
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Pand on April 19, 2013, 07:49:30 PM
I am against transfer of perks because then it becomes currency. I would suggest potentially being able to trade in a large number of perks, maybe 5k, for a free month of play.

This could be interesting for the following reasons:

1. It is a high enough number that farming would be too much of a hassle and could be easily recognized.
2. It could encourage use of aircraft that rarely get used outside of FSO and AvA.
3. It could give some people the opportunity to earn a free month without bankrupting HTC.
4. It would allow people who don't use their perks for the best aircraft to do something with them.

Just a thought. :salute
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 08:04:51 PM
I am against transfer of perks because then it becomes currency. I would suggest potentially being able to trade in a large number of perks, maybe 5k, for a free month of play.

This could be interesting for the following reasons:

1. It is a high enough number that farming would be too much of a hassle and could be easily recognized.
2. It could encourage use of aircraft that rarely get used outside of FSO and AvA.
3. It could give some people the opportunity to earn a free month without bankrupting HTC.
4. It would allow people who don't use their perks for the best aircraft to do something with them.

Just a thought. :salute

pand transferring 5k for 1 month of premium would lead to so much vulching of friends that it would make ah go bankrupt.



semp
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: kvuo75 on April 19, 2013, 08:05:08 PM
in the previous version of the thread, I liked the idea of a person with a lot of perks being able to post a mission and pay for everyone's perk plane.. IE : I'll pay 1000 perks for 6 guys to go up in 262's with me.... as long as I lose the perks as soon as mission launches, and the other guys have no way to keep the perks even if they land.  the points would have to be consumed, or all kinds of shenanigans could happen.





Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Pand on April 19, 2013, 08:07:22 PM
pand transferring 5k for 1 month of premium would lead to so much vulching of friends that it would make ah go bankrupt.



semp
See point number 1.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Volron on April 19, 2013, 08:07:50 PM
in the previous version of the thread, I liked the idea of a person with a lot of perks being able to post a mission and pay for everyone's perk plane.. IE : I'll pay 1000 perks for 6 guys to go up in 262's with me.... as long as I lose the perks as soon as mission launches, and the other guys have no way to keep the perks even if they land.  the points would have to be consumed, or all kinds of shenanigans could happen.


Now THIS, I don't see too much of an issue with.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: MrKrabs on April 19, 2013, 08:24:49 PM
(http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2013/021/f/0/grumpy_cat_nope_poster_by_xpsr-d5sackl.png)
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Nr_RaVeN on April 19, 2013, 09:23:14 PM
Is this everquest?
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: guncrasher on April 19, 2013, 11:19:35 PM
See point number 1.

go to midway or early war with a x5 multiplier see how long it takes you to get 100 perks.


semp
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Dragon Tamer on April 19, 2013, 11:33:56 PM
Sounds like someone is trying to make up for the perks they lost when that storch shot down their 262.  :ahand

I like Pand's and Kvuo75's idea, I also heard Snailman say  in another thread that perks could possibly be given away randomly. I think that if done right, all three could be a good solution.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: EagleDNY on April 20, 2013, 02:48:48 PM

I see lots of players that have been around for years and not having enough perks to even fly a zero (sarcasm intended).  the funniest thing I ever heard was when some long time player proudly announced that he had gotten over 60 perks in one flight.  when I asked him how many perks he had, he replied 60  :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl.

and these are the guys you want to transfer perks to?  :bhead :bhead :bhead :bhead

semp


No - the guys I want to transfer perks to are the newbies in our squad that we might want to bring along on B-29 or Ar-234 raids.  These activities are quite likely to result in loss of bomber perks in a big way (especially if you take a formation).  Not everybody is up for blowing 200-400 bomber perks on a strat mission since we are likely to be facing a load of 163s when we get there. 

Allowing players to designate a percentage of their perks to a "squad pool" on an ongoing basis will just make squad nights better.   We aren't trying to sell perks or anything, and frankly I would think that if you had to buy perks you would probably be likely to lose them pretty fast anyway.  Yes, of course we could just train them in the art of perk farming - but I find the best time I have in AH is on squad nite or FSO, where we have all our guys on flying together trying for a single shared objective.   I'm just saying that I would be happy to contribute perks to the squad in furtherance of our squad nite objectives. 

Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Eric19 on April 20, 2013, 04:14:45 PM
No - the guys I want to transfer perks to are the newbies in our squad that we might want to bring along on B-29 or Ar-234 raids.  These activities are quite likely to result in loss of bomber perks in a big way (especially if you take a formation).  Not everybody is up for blowing 200-400 bomber perks on a strat mission since we are likely to be facing a load of 163s when we get there. 

Allowing players to designate a percentage of their perks to a "squad pool" on an ongoing basis will just make squad nights better.   We aren't trying to sell perks or anything, and frankly I would think that if you had to buy perks you would probably be likely to lose them pretty fast anyway.  Yes, of course we could just train them in the art of perk farming - but I find the best time I have in AH is on squad nite or FSO, where we have all our guys on flying together trying for a single shared objective.   I'm just saying that I would be happy to contribute perks to the squad in furtherance of our squad nite objectives. 


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^I totally agree on this it would help the new members of the squad to learn to fly a perk ride without spending there perks and in the company of one or two of there squaddies of course lol
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Zacherof on April 20, 2013, 05:19:17 PM
Or if someone pressures you(google) into getting into a 262 only to lawndart l, said peep should foot the bill :devil
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: bozon on April 21, 2013, 04:04:39 AM
The average player (2 weekers omitted!) makes something like 2-3 perks per hour. Really good, significantly above average player can make 8-9 per hour in fighter mode in the long run. And yes, that's including the occasional "30 perks in one sortie!"
That is because they are flying P51s and Spit16s and at best get 1 perk per kill of another P51/spit16. If on the other hand they flew 30-40 ENY planes, the'll get 6-8 perks per kill of the abundant 5 ENY planes. Even if not able to land the kills, they still make more perks. Some 20-30 ENY planes are very capable fighters, not much inferior at all to the La7/P51/Spit16. Even among the 30-40 ENY you can find some competitive rides. If anyone is interested in perks he must get out of the ENY 5 rides.

Bomber perks are dirty cheap.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Lusche on April 21, 2013, 04:18:42 AM
That is because they are flying P51s and Spit16s and at best get 1 perk per kill of another P51/spit16. If on the other hand they flew 30-40 ENY planes, the'll get 6-8 perks per kill of the abundant 5 ENY planes. Even if not able to land the kills, they still make more perks. Some 20-30 ENY planes


Sorry, but no, not really.

First, the average number of perks/h I gave includes already a quite high percentage of higher ENY fighters being flown. It's not that everybody or even the majority is flying the P-51 all the time. The 'average' ENY fighter's flown is much higher than 5, more like 12-15 (would have to check the current status), and this is how the 2-3 perks are created. If a individual player would actually fly only D-Ponies, the number would be even lower!

Second, there is a limit the average player can do with very high ENY planes. While it's true that flying an ENY 30 plane will get 3 times as much perks for a single kill than flying an ENY 10 plane and indeed not getting home to land them only cuts your earnings down by 20%, it may be even more harder to get any kills in the first place. For the average player, this can more than offset the increased rate of perks being earned. Concentration on killing ENY 5 planes in high ENY rides sounds easy, for the great majority of players it is absolutely not.



Just as a general statement: The skill level, luck and success rate of the "average" players is often very much overrated by us relatively few "vets".
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: bozon on April 21, 2013, 06:25:05 AM
Sorry, but no, not really.

First, the average number of perks/h I gave includes already a quite high percentage of higher ENY fighters being flown. It's not that everybody or even the majority is flying the P-51 all the time. The 'average' ENY fighter's flown is much higher than 5, more like 12-15 (would have to check the current status), and this is how the 2-3 perks are created. If a individual player would actually fly only D-Ponies, the number would be even lower!
The bold faced text is the point I was getting at.  An individual that cares about perks should fly an average or higher ENY planes. Of course, if many players care about perks and take my advice it will just raise the mean ENY. Also, I suspect (just a hunch) that there is a difference between the mean and median ENY - if 9 players fly an ENY 5 planes and just one flies ENY 40 plane, the mean ENY is 8.5. Just 1 out of 10 players has had a significant relative impact on the mean ENY (50% increase of the mean).
This is why I suspect that the mean may be 12-15, but the likelyhood of meeting ENY<12 plane are higher then 50%.

Quote
Second, there is a limit the average player can do with very high ENY planes. While it's true that flying an ENY 30 plane will get 3 times as much perks for a single kill than flying an ENY 10 plane and indeed not getting home to land them only cuts your earnings down by 20%, it may be even more harder to get any kills in the first place. For the average player, this can more than offset the increased rate of perks being earned. Concentration on killing ENY 5 planes in high ENY rides sounds easy, for the great majority of players it is absolutely not.
There are quite a number of very capable ENY 30 planes. Are they inferior to the ENY<10 planes? definitely, and this inferiority will be strongly felt if used for dueling. However, in MA furball environment, the impact on your kills/h will not drop it to 1/3 of what they can kill in ENY<10 planes. I dont want to name specific planes, because I don't remember the specific ENY values of most, but last I checked there were VERY good high ENY fighters out there. Just in relative ENY terms, I am sure that going changing La7/La5, or Spit16/Spit9, or P51D/P51B, or P47N/P47D11 or 190D/190A8 any player will get a significant boost in their perk gains over whatever they gain right now - including some reduction to their K/D.

This will be even more effective to noobs, because they get kill of opportunity more than by out-flying their opponents. For such kills, the 190A8 kills even better than 190D (just an example) and P47D11/25 kills just as well as P47N/M.

Then again, if everyone does this, the median ENY will rise and going high ENY will be less effective in absolute perks/h farming, but still better than flying ENY 5 plane.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Lusche on April 21, 2013, 07:51:21 AM
Also, I suspect (just a hunch) that there is a difference between the mean and median ENY - if 9 players fly an ENY 5 planes and just one flies ENY 40 plane, the mean ENY is 8.5. Just 1 out of 10 players has had a significant relative impact on the mean ENY (50% increase of the mean).
This is why I suspect that the mean may be 12-15, but the likelyhood of meeting ENY<12 plane are higher then 50%


Quite hunchy, that's not the way I determined that number. ;)  I determine that by analysing all kills in the arena in detail,
The average ENY of a plane/gv killed by fighters in 2012 was 12.5, the average ENY of the fighter gettign a kill was slightly above that.

On avg. ENY, see also http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,345669.msg4564520.html#msg4564520



I will also elaborate on average perk gain in that thread today.


Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Torquila on April 23, 2013, 03:41:13 AM
Perk Sponsored Missions are by far the best Idea I have seen on this subject.

Sponsoring, not transferring; we don't want a virtual economy here.

Maybe even a pool of sponsorship, so that anyone can throw perks into a mission to add to the collection to purchase said perk equipment. Lest we end up with missions headed by only a select few. Which, despite my weakness for collective charity, might work better? I dunno.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: bozon on April 23, 2013, 04:53:26 AM
in the previous version of the thread, I liked the idea of a person with a lot of perks being able to post a mission and pay for everyone's perk plane.. IE : I'll pay 1000 perks for 6 guys to go up in 262's with me.... as long as I lose the perks as soon as mission launches, and the other guys have no way to keep the perks even if they land.  the points would have to be consumed, or all kinds of shenanigans could happen.

Perk Sponsored Missions are by far the best Idea I have seen on this subject.

Sponsoring, not transferring; we don't want a virtual economy here.

Now that is a great idea! and a good use of the huge pile of perks some vets have accumulated. The greatest thing about it is that it is appealing for new players in particular. All that is needed is to add in the mission planner a tick box that determines who pays the perks for perk planes in the mission - the planner or the player who joined.

I must emphasize the point of losing the perks even if the mission planes land. Veteran players desperately need a perk sink otherwise we will see a lot of 262 swarm missions, and because they are likely to land, such missions can be sustained for many sorties. The occasional 262/163/arado/MossXVI/B29 swarm can be hilarious, but it must cost a lot even for a veteran so we do not see them too often. In addition, since the points are already lost, new players can fly the planes without pressure.

Someone should post it on the wish forum.
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: Torquila on April 23, 2013, 05:01:19 AM
Well, why don't you post it bozon?  :P

I like the thought of it being a sink for the old vets, but the perk requirements to post even a couple high tiered missions in a row would destroy much hope in further missions if no perks are returned. I would say there should be a divider based on the number of players in a mission or allow other players to donate to the mission to share costs (like a checkbox or something like that: "I want to donate to this mission"). Either that, or you get the perks back for every landed plane.

Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: guncrasher on April 23, 2013, 06:48:14 AM
Now that is a great idea! and a good use of the huge pile of perks some vets have accumulated. The greatest thing about it is that it is appealing for new players in particular. All that is needed is to add in the mission planner a tick box that determines who pays the perks for perk planes in the mission - the planner or the player who joined.

I must emphasize the point of losing the perks even if the mission planes land. Veteran players desperately need a perk sink otherwise we will see a lot of 262 swarm missions, and because they are likely to land, such missions can be sustained for many sorties. The occasional 262/163/arado/MossXVI/B29 swarm can be hilarious, but it must cost a lot even for a veteran so we do not see them too often. In addition, since the points are already lost, new players can fly the planes without pressure.

Someone should post it on the wish forum.


sure a vet will post a mission for a bunch of new guys that cant take off in the plane to begin with.


semp
Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: kvuo75 on April 23, 2013, 08:22:38 AM
Someone should post it on the wish forum.


it was, in this thread :)

and was some months ago also.

Title: Re: Perk transfer
Post by: bozon on April 23, 2013, 02:04:24 PM
sure a vet will post a mission for a bunch of new guys that cant take off in the plane to begin with.


semp
Very few will post a 262 mission for two weekers, though I can't rule it out just for the LULZ value of it. Heck, I can toss 10 262s if someone want to crash them for me. If someone asks me nicely I will post a 1 man mission just for him.

More likely it will be a squadron that organize a mission and want to include its junior members in the action. Some squadrons have a large number of newish players that cannot easily afford a 262 or B29, but are capable enough to get it off the runway (upwards, not to the sideways...).

it was, in this thread :)

and was some months ago also.
OK did not see the original thread.