Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: -error on April 24, 2013, 01:57:37 AM
-
Hello.
Recently I began to think about replacing my very old Saitek Cyber Evo which dates back to 2005. As it has its 8th birthday this year it has pretty large free play in its handle and pots noise.
So I'm going to upgrade to some HOTAS system and seeking advice on that.
Going back to 2000th I remember that CH system was top notch at that time. Is it still true and CH products are way to go? I'm currently looking at Fighter Stick+Pro Throttle+Pro pedals.
Or is it better to stick to Saitek X52pro + Saitek Combat Rudder pedals?
Or is it better to go cheap and buy Logitech Extreme 3D pro? Though I always didn't like stiff logitechs and I'd like to have to try fly almost as in reality with pedals.
Any suggestion would be great.
PS. OMG. I just realized that it is almost 10 years gone in virtual skies. And I still can't shoot enemy planes properly. :-)
-
There's been a gazillion opinions about CH being either the best money can buy or the opposite. My experience about their products is that they don't fit my hand out of the box. For what I've heard and read, each of the high end Hotas systems have had more or less serious issues with some users while others have been totally satisfied for years.
Speaking of cheap sticks, Logitech Extreme 3d pro fits most hands. Heavy users say they don't last too long, but I've been using them for several years without problems. I must admit my flying hours aren't causing marital problems, but on the other hand I also use the stick gently without crushing the stick beyond its limits and back. Read on, good alternatives follow!
If you like the Logitech touch but would like a Hotas, the Thrustmaster T-flight Hotas X is very nice for the price, about $50. The parts are detachable with a 3 ft cable in between. The stick is twisty and the stiffness is adjustable. Alternatively you can choose to use a rocker on the throttle for rudder.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTM_52AYx_T-Ap44pKtRO-Kg0mJFiXLNJ5ZtRh7Ngvp92AMv7sGSQ)
If you want the most accurate inexpensive stick available, the Thrustmaster t-16000m is your choice. Again, fits most hands well. Heck, it comes with adjustment parts for lefties, too! It's equipped with HAL sensors and the resolution of the stick is incredible (hence the type 16000). The movements are large and smooth, the centering is noticeable but has only a small threshold. Oh, and the price: below $50. No wonder it has been praised on this forum, just check the posts for the last half a year or so.
(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mKKekmvjUDQQMQOBdCNJ3tQ.jpg)
-
Thanks for input, Bizman.
I was using TM Top Gun Fox 2 Pro USB prior to getting Saitek and was disappointed by its durability. After couple of years of mild usage pots became absolutely unusable.
So TM Hostas X (being the rebranded TopGun Afterburner II) is no-go for me. As for t-16000m I saw many disapproval in "our internets".
Therefore I'm more interested in HOTAS systems now and "cheapo" sticks are last resort for me.
I'd like to hear opinions of TM users. How do their devices fare?
-
I have been using a TopGun Afterburner II for some years now without any problems. I must admit, though, that I felt a little nervous after the first sessions: The stick part felt like it would break apart soon. But it didn't, maybe I just tried to move it beyond its limits. Can't really tell if the movement range is narrower in it than was in the Logi Extr 3d pro I had before that. For almost a year now I've been using only the throttle part, doing the flying on a T-16000m.
I'm a bit surprised to read that you've found disapprovals of the T-16000m. Among the AH community it seems increasingly popular without complaints. In comparison all of the expensive Hotas systems have got their share on this forum.
-
i have a t-flight hotas x stick that is as solid as it was when i bought it a few years ago. a friend has one that is older and it's still going strong. i don't think it's a "rebranded" top gun...at least as far as the internals are concerned.
if there is a question in your mind though, you can't go wrong with a ch setup.
-
Did I say TM? OMG.
I'd like to hear about CH.
Also, read a lot nice comments about this beauty
(http://filearchive.cnews.ru/img/zoom/2011/12/07/thrustmaster_hotas_warthog_10870.jpg)
What about it?
-
If you already know the answer why are you asking? CH lasts forever, or ten years minimum (so far). I'm at the eight year mark on my joystick, so plenty of time to save for the next one. Rudders at six years, throttle currently at thirteen, throttle quadrant at seven. . .
-
I really like my Saitek X52 - bought before Madcatz took them over. Used a self powered usb hub from day one and never had calibration issues. I originally used a Sidewinder 3d Pro for Air warrior. Liked that one as well. I think you can still get one of those on ebay. I'm also not very good, have smaller hands (which I have heard is an issue with CH) and am not rough on equipment. Having read about sticks over the years, it comes down to personal preference. My Saitek has lasted for over 4 years now without a hiccup. Others can't get them to work out of the box. A lot swear by CH. Some have had problems with them. You pay your money and take your choice.
-
At 8 years and some change my CH suite is going strong. The 8-way hat on the Fighterstick has a bit of a hitch on the down position, but since I use TrackIR I don't notice it. There is no noticeable spiking or slop at the middle of the stick or pedals and the throttle works as good as the day it came out of the box. Should one of them die irreparably I will buy a CH product to replace it..
-
ch has as many problems as other sticks. the first one I got had to return it and the second one ended under a 20 ton slab of steel after getting frustrated with it. I am on my 3rd stick and only because it was given to me used. it loses calibration often.
I miss my old x-52 had it for 2 years with no problem. I gave it away when I got my second awesome ch stick that lasts forever.
the funny thing is that I abused the heck out of my x52 just so it would break to have an excuse to buy a ch fighterstick. it never stopped working :rofl.
semp
-
My Microsoft Precision Pro I twisty stick still works like new after 10+ years of use (I think I bought it some time 1998). Optical pots FTW! Zero spiking, never loses calibration.
Unfortunately you can't get them new for the past 10 years either.
-
original FPH's fly CH. nuff said. :D
-
original FPH's fly CH. nuff said. :D
Pardon me, but who are FPH?
-
Don't even go there...you don't wanna know.
-
People with old enough x52 pro, could you tell whether your stick developed "slack" in center position and how big is it? Is metal plate of any help?
My Evo swings for about 10mm in center left and right and about 5-7 mm back and forth.
-
I've had my CH stuff since around 2003. The Fighterstick and Pro Throttle do everything they originally did and I have no regrets in dropping the money on those.
The only issue I had was with the pedals, which I no longer use (although I still have them). The wiring inside was a little shabby. After about the first year of use I started having problems getting them to work. After opening up the unit I could see the wiring had not be down well or secured away from the moving parts. This combined with the poor design of the USB cable connecting point to the pedal base really disappointed me. I fixed it a couple of times, but it just really stopped being worth it to me. So, I just use the little joystick on the Pro Throttle to control the rudder and I have the brakes programmed to the hat switch (which works perfect).
The only thing I could say I would love to see improved is the spring in the Fighterstick to be a little tighter (or at least allow for an adjustment). It centers fine it is just a preference thing (I would like a little more resistance).
I know they are not for everyone and not everyone's experience will be the same, but I recommend the CH Fighterstick and Pro Throttle. They have been worth everything I paid for them!
-
My 52 Pro is a few years old and controls are like new. I did have issues with an X52 setup that was plagued with issues from birth, but I also have (my son still uses) my original X52 set from 2005 or so that is still flawless.
-
Blammo, Dragon thank you for your opinions. It's very nice to hear from real device owners.
For now I'm leaning to CH FighterStick + CH Pro Rudder + Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder Pedals combo. At least I can always buy x52 pro, but I can't get CH stuff for life here. The only concern are potentiometers in CH products. I had negative experience with pots in TM TopGun stick. Saitek's are a lot better but they are spiking heavily now after about 5 years of mild usage. Also now CH ceased to ship components for end users and repairs only under 2 years warranty. It's a shame for such famous company, I think.
-
My X52 is as good now as it was 4 years ago - no center slack. I have heard more than a few here tout a combination of ch stick & throttle with saitek pedals. I like the Saitek pedals - a bit wider than ch. I only used ch pedals once so not enough to say if they're better in the game.
-
Blammo, Dragon thank you for your opinions. It's very nice to hear from real device owners.
For now I'm leaning to CH FighterStick + CH Pro Rudder + Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder Pedals combo. At least I can always buy x52 pro, but I can't get CH stuff for life here. The only concern are potentiometers in CH products. I had negative experience with pots in TM TopGun stick. Saitek's are a lot better but they are spiking heavily now after about 5 years of mild usage. Also now CH ceased to ship components for end users and repairs only under 2 years warranty. It's a shame for such famous company, I think.
I've had my CH stick for more than 5 years and have only calibrated it a few times. No spiking that I can notice while flying but with the "raw" view up you see a bit. Of course I don't fly hundreds of hours any more so that might help it hold out longer. I do hope that some day someone comes up with a kit to switch over the pots to Hall Effects Sensors.
-
CH FighterStick + CH Pro Throttle + Saitek Pro Flight Combat Rudder Pedals
I'm happy :old:
-
My Thrustmaster 16000 has proved to be a good choice for about the last 18 months. My first stick was a 3D Pro. I never could get a comfortable grip and had to build up a soft grip with a medical grade bandage to use it. The 3d pro started spiking after about 1 year so I returned it and took the 16000.
I'm going to get another just to have as a backup.
-
I had my TM cougar, for 8 years , now switched to TM Warthog.
Sensor hall pots lasts probably 4ever
only programming the script editor is a PITA. GUI programming for simpler tasks are ok.
-
So...
While being on business trip to states I bought CH FighterStick, CH Pro Throttle and Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals combo.
Need to say that I'm a little bit disappointed with pots quality in those products. There is constant spikes in throttle axis and in rudder. Also left toe break axis do not return to zero if released gently.
Anyway I'm happy with my new toys for now and getting used to them in offline flight. Wish me luck setting up (and remembering) those insane amount of buttons :-)
-
So...
While being on business trip to states I bought CH FighterStick, CH Pro Throttle and Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals combo.
Need to say that I'm a little bit disappointed with pots quality in those products. There is constant spikes in throttle axis and in rudder. Also left toe break axis do not return to zero if released gently.
Anyway I'm happy with my new toys for now and getting used to them in offline flight. Wish me luck setting up (and remembering) those insane amount of buttons :-)
I've had spiking problems until I started running my joystick and pedals off of a powered USB hub. That solved it. (My motherboard USB's power transistors just weren't up to it.)
-
I have never had a spiking issue with either of my CH Sticks. I have always ran them on a powered USB Hub, so that may be the difference.
Fred
-
make sure your dials are centred, powered USB hub.
I've had mine near 6 years and they might need the odd calibration but you would have to prize them out of my cold dead hands before I use any other crap on the market.
-
guys who have had ch sticks for years and years hardly have any problems. while those who bought in the the last few years have problems.
semp
-
Hello.
Thank for comments everyone. I've just picked up dlink powered usb hub (7 port DUB-H7). Spiking on throttle in full backwards position almost gone. But nevertheless axis value jumps a little bit (by 400-500 in AH map controllers menu) when I have my hand on throttle and try to move it around in that position. As for saitek pedals that plugged in the same hub, spiking in central position persists. I think that it's because saitek installing toejamty pots in their "pro" products.