Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Gman on April 26, 2013, 02:39:59 PM
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I've always wanted an arena where I can jump in anytime, where there is a "campaign" of battles running continuously, sort of like the AI dynamic campaign back in Falcon 4.
This is what I mean - Have the AvA arena populated by swarms and formations of AI aircraft running bombing missions and fighter sweeps, but also have the capability for "human" players to jump into any of these missions or aircraft. When BoB is running in the AvA arena for example, I would love to see multiple He111 and Stuka missions going on along with the Spitfire, Hurricane, and other Brit planes running defense, and have the ability to join any of these missions as a human player.
This way, not only would there be lots of action going on, but it would feel much more realistic, like an FSO event without having to actually organize and populate an FSO event with real live players.
I'm not sure if this is even possible, and I've never tried any of the offline missions to even get a feel for the AI, but I for one would think this type of arena would give the MA a fun for its money, and in addition give players who complain endlessly of the "hordes, ho-ing, lack of fights, too many fights, etc etc" a place to call home when they tire of whatever ails them in the main arena setting.
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Everyone gets a trophy for showing up...........
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+1 I think it's in the works
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You do realize this means the Allies win, right?
Bombers:
B-17G
B-24J
B-25C
B-26B
B-29A
Boston Mk III
Lancaster Mk IIII
Mosquito Mk XVI
vs
Ar234B
G4M1
He111H
Ju88A-4
Ki-67
Attack aircraft:
A-20G
B-25H
Il-2
vs
Ju87D
Ju87G
Carrier fighters:
F4F-4
F4U-1
F4U-1a
F4U-1c
F4U-1d
F4U-4
F6F-5
FM2
Seafire Mk II
Sea Hurricane Mk I
vs
A6M2
A6M3
A6M5b
Carrier strike aircraft:
SBD-5
TBM-3
vs
B5N2
D3A1
Axis does hold the advantage in armored fighting vehicles:
Panther V G
Panzer IV D/F
Panzer IV H
Tiger I
Tiger II
vs
M4A3(75)
M4A3(76)
M8
M18
Sherman Firefly VC
T-34/76
T-34/85
The Axis dominates AA vehicles:
Ostwind
Wirbelwind
vs
M16
But the Allies own the amphibious assault vehicles and boats.
LVT(A)2
LVT(A)4
80' Elco PT-Boat
vs
...
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Fought to 1945? Of course. It was practically over in 1944.
Presuming equipment will be developed at the same pace as it was historically on each side.
I predict the atom bomb will be delayed somewhat.
:D
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Fought to 1945? Of course. It was practically over in 1944.
Presuming equipment will be developed at the same pace as it was historically on each side.
I predict the atom bomb will be delayed somewhat.
:D
Given there wouldn't be an atom bomb, yes, somewhat delayed.
That said, with that bomber lineup the Allies don't need one either.
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Given there wouldn't be an atom bomb, yes, somewhat delayed.
That said, with that bomber lineup the Allies don't need one either.
Ahem ... presuming equipment will be developed at the same pace. Which ... reasonably ... could (even should) happen. But what if it didn't? What if the Allies set their B-29 program aside while the Axis pushed the Arado faster? :cool:
Ever play Axis and Allies? You could even start the Axis with a bit of an advantage. With such, the Axis are battling the Allies ... and time. I would venture that the Axis winning the war in mid 1944 or later would be rare.
Now, a question , in turn - what bomber did the Axis develop that could equal what the Allies produced, in real life?
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Now, a question , in turn - what bomber did the Axis develop that could equal what the Allies produced, in real life?
None?
Well, the four engined versions of the He 177, the He 177B / He 277 / He 274 perhaps, but they didn't go into serial production.
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None?
Well, the four engined versions of the He 177, the He 177B / He 277 / He 274 perhaps, but they didn't go into serial production.
G8N as well. Maybe the P.108 or H8K2.
None could match the B-29 though.
As far as getting the Ar234B before the Allies get the B-29, well, when do the Allies get the Mosquito Mk XVI, B-17G, B-24J and Lancaster Mk III? I don't think the Ar234B matches any of the four engined bombers in terms of game use, and only matches, not exceeds, the Mossie.
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Karnak, with attack you missed the Bf-110 series, Fw-190F8 and Il-2. Those three are formidable. Not the 'self-protecting' package of speed such as the Typhoon but in a good mix, more than enough to cause fits for the other side.
Boo
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Karnak, with attack you missed the Bf-110 series, Fw-190F8 and Il-2. Those three are formidable. Not the 'self-protecting' package of speed such as the Typhoon but in a good mix, more than enough to cause fits for the other side.
Boo
Il-2 is on the list. It is Allied.
The Bf110, Fw190 and Typhoon I considered fighters. They can, of course, be pressed into service as attackers. As can the great bulk of late war American fighters as well as the Mossie and Me410.
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I like the idea. The biggest drawback of AvA in my experience has been that 1) No one is there and 2) Almost everyone is on the same side.
Just run "scenarios" (IE, Guadalcanal campaign, or BoB, or Defense of the Reich, or Eastern Front) with limited plane sets rather than a beginning-to-end RPS.
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The "which side will win or has better equipment" thing IMO could be mitigated and controlled by rules/eny/etc, there are many options with regards to this problem. Limiting the numbers of the AI formations, etc etc - so many possible ways to balance the sides out, if you're looking for gameplay balance and fairness as opposed to "historical realism". Heck, you can have both, some nights for example run a BoB or East Front map with realistic squadrons and numbers and such, and other nights have the game balancing tools in effect.
To be specific, this is what I was thinking of: Recently I've been yearning for the experience I used to "feel" in older games like Aces of the Pacific, and even Falcon 4, where you played a campaign and felt like a small cog in a huge wheel. I recently bought both of the Battle of Britain flight sims, Battle of Britain 2 with its superb new patch/realism mod, and Il2-Cliffs of Dover, which too has undergone a recent patching/modding, and is much better than when it was released.
While both of these games are great in their own respects, BoB 2 especially for that feeling of huge formations of L/W bombers and British fighters swarming about, they both lack that "Aces High 2" feeling of actually FLYING a simulation to me. What I'd be shooting for with my wish list request would be an experience that BoB2 or even Clod provides in terms of a single player campaign experience, combined with having the option to have AI planes "taken over" per se by human pilots a la massively multiplayer fasion (shameless Dale plug), along with AH2's superior flight model and game fidelity. Again, it would be like an FSO experience that could be jumped into at any time by any player. It wouldn't take away anything from FSO or scenarios either, as the whole point here is to have something that doesn't require the intense planning and participation required by those events, yet recreates their experience and greatness for players wanting something like that at the tip of their fingers.
edit :The biggest drawback of AvA in my experience has been that 1) No one is there and 2) Almost everyone is on the same side.
Exactly Sax, this is one of the reasons I don't fly AvA, even though it SHOULD be rights be the place I'm most interested in. I think the idea I'm spelling out would go a long way to fix this, as even if there was nobody else online with you, you would still have a great time as there would be TONS of AI stuff flying around, with pre planned auto-missions and the like open for anyone to join, or even create and populate with their own AI wingman. If other live players happen to join in, so much the better, the more the merrier right, and you could have your real life squamates populate several AI squadrons, and have just a few of you lead dozens of planes into action.
Just run "scenarios" (IE, Guadalcanal campaign, or BoB, or Defense of the Reich, or Eastern Front) with limited plane sets rather than a beginning-to-end RPS.
I didn't mention rolling plane set at all, and it's not something I like in any shape or form myself, so I agree with you, and that in fact was the idea I thought I was getting at - just run scenarios in this "new" AvA arena for a set period of time, then change to a new one. There would be no shortage of participants wanting to write new AvA AI arena setups I'm sure. It would be like being the CM of an FSO/event, but you wouldn't be limited by numbers or participants, as you could create large numbers of AI formations and flights of whatever you wanted.
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:salute I like the idea. having the whole of ah on a single side to see how it would work. ah vs ai which side matters not to me. I would wonder how many benders would be there to kill all humans. :cheers:
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Main arena at warbirds had some super aggressive fighter AI back in 2005 which was just crazy.
I enjoyed it.
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I still think this would have a very fundamental affect, regarding:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,347308.0.html
:aok
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This all hinges on the development of the staged mission system for CM run arenas.
The SEA wants it too.
If we could run a series of stacked missions and counter missions that kick off every hour or half hour, players could join, replacing an AI slot so we could have huge escorted bomber missions and counter intercept missions.
Most players would take up the fighter slots first and most of the bombers would be AI. It would be a great thing to focus the battles at altitude.
We would like to have the ability to run them along side and not instead of the regular free play that goes on in there.
There would always be something going on in there and I imagine people would pop in just for some gunnery practice. There would be a fog of war uncertainty where you would never know if you were about to battle a bot or if a real player had shown up.
Kind of like in real life if you didn't know whether you were going up against a green replacement enemy pilot or an ace.
We are just waiting to see when and if this ability comes to pass for us.
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No.
I don't want to fight AI. There are thousands of offline games for that. I like going up against another person, who may or may not be skilled, may or may not use their aircraft as well as possible, may or may not see me coming, may or may not make logical decisions.
Thank you.
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Which is why the main arena would still be around. As it stands now, NOBODY plays in the AvA arena, I've seen 15 in there at a time as a maximum, I think I may have even seen 20 once since its inception, other than a really special event or Jet week, and even then the numbers are a fraction of a fraction of the MA's. I'm not talking about a game wide change, just ONE arena, and a specific one, as it has the element of being scenario/period based.
And there aren't thousands of games that do this, only a few in the last 5 years, as in count on one hand, that have swarms of WW2 aircraft in formation flying about. And NONE of them have a multiplayer component like what I'm suggesting, a merging of Massively multiplayer with large scale single player dynamic campaign type of gaming. And none of these current games have a constant server running 24/7 that would allow players to just jump in whenever they like at the click of a button like the servers at HTC.
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No.
I don't want to fight AI. There are thousands of offline games for that. I like going up against another person, who may or may not be skilled, may or may not use their aircraft as well as possible, may or may not see me coming, may or may not make logical decisions.
Thank you.
Too late. AI is already in the game, from bases and fleets to drunks to drones. Making the AI role more complex is another issue.
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No.
I don't want to fight AI. There are thousands of offline games for that. I like going up against another person, who may or may not be skilled, may or may not use their aircraft as well as possible, may or may not see me coming, may or may not make logical decisions.
Thank you.
If we get it, we are going to use it. Players being able to take over AI slots is going to ensure that at any time you could run into a real human.
Who cares if the bombers are AI? they will fly a better formation pattern.
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If we get it, we are going to use it. Players being able to take over AI slots is going to ensure that at any time you could run into a real human.
Who cares if the bombers are AI? they will fly a better formation pattern.
I care. The OP's post seems to be a request to make the lack of patience of some to fly to a fight and spend the time doing so obsolete. There is plenty of instant action in the MA. Just up from a base being attacked. Oh, wait, you don't want to do that because you would then be at a disadvantage? :cry Then take off one base away and fly there. Oh, wait you don't want to spend the time doing that? :cry
I also hear constantly folks saying, "I would fly there more if more people flew there". If those who lamented that observation would just go there then there would be more people there to fight.
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I also hear constantly folks saying, "I would fly there more if more people flew there". If those who lamented that observation would just go there then there would be more people there to fight.
That's the whole problem, and that's why I think with staged missions we will get more humans in too.
I don't think of it as replacing real players but augmenting. Bigger, more realistic formations etc.
Always something going on in the arena and still people can come in and furball. This will be a welcome addition.
PS: We have a lot of creative talent just on staff. Me, USRanger (technically with CM terrain team but he works with us too.) Soda and now jaeger is dabbling a little in content creation, not to mention friends of the arena who make things for us.
We get this, and you won't believe your eyes when you see what we put together.
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Karnak what does the plane list have to do with the allies winning? Nothing. If its setup how it should be, there is an equal chance for victory on either side.
The allies have to survive until early 1943 - which is pretty tough to do since the Axis were dominating on every theater, however the allies of course by pure manpower take 43-45.
If its setup the way it should be, there is a decisive victory, marginal victory, win loss and decisive loss.
If you break it down with a margin of error of 5% the chances of someone getting a decisive victory would be very tough, given for one thing - you don't start out with P-51Ds or Me-262s.
I would like a campaign type setup - something like what Il-2 sturmovik has, you start out as a lowbie pilot, you build rank and medals, after so many "months" at a squadron you can transfer.
For example if I wanted to choose to be a Red Army pilot in 1942 defending Leningrad, I would face the Finnish/Germans for a series of scenarios like our FSO has - you do defensive missions, fighter sweeps and intercepts etc.
Score would be same as it is already, once a month it resets however your "online dossier" never disappears, showing your overall ranks/medals etc (achievement system we have).
I think it could be easily do able.
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I would like a campaign type setup - something like what Il-2 sturmovik has, you start out as a lowbie pilot, you build rank and medals, after so many "months" at a squadron you can transfer.
I would like to have something similar, but it probably couldn't be done quite like this in AvA. We have no logging program, so the only way to get stats would be monthly and we couldn't run the same scenario for a month.
If the mission system had some sort of logging/scoring itself, we could do it. A player might have a character for each theater and then could fly the missions whenever that theater was in the AvA.
A couple of us were once working on a system where a player would have a randomly generated character and if killed or captured, would become a replacement pilot with a new character.
There was a lot to figure out. Would a character have a certain number of life's or just one? etc
With the staged mission system and some sort of logging it would be possible.
It could possibly be done as an addition to AvA without affecting the traditional play that happens there, but if HTC ever wants to revisit Combat Tour, they would probably set up an arena just for that.
If not, maybe we could someday do Combat Tour lite.
This was dreamed up before the staged mission system was ever on the horizon
BROKEN SKIES
This event will have a character role playing aspect.
Each player will start with a randomly generated character. This character will have a name, hometown etc.
(http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll149/jimsom88/brkenskiescharacter.jpg)
The character will have only one life, if lost or captured, the player will recieve a new identity as a replacement pilot.
The player will advance in rank based on a point system that will recognize individual successes as well as missions participated in and completed.
Players will also be eligible for awards and commendations based on this point system.
This is an event for hardcore simmers. It will be run in a military fashion and players will assume and accept their roles, both the good and the bad, but it will be so dynamic that they will not be stuck in any particular situation for long.
Each side will have a commander that will be an event CM. The commanders will work together to provide a realistic and fun event.
Current squad affiliations will not apply to this event, there will be too much replacement going on to keep squads intact and this is a military simulation.
Players will have to work with those they are assigned with. In the event of a players death or capture they will be reassigned as a replacement pilot with a new identity to the next squadron that has an open slot.
Squadron leaders will initially be designated. If a squad leader is killed or captured, the next highest ranking survivor will assume command. If all survivors are the same rank, the one with the highest point total towards promotion will assume command. As in real life, there will sometimes be inferior leaders.
There will be an avenue for transfer requests but such requests are not guaranteed.
Fighter and attack squadrons will be 8 pilots strong. Bomber squadrons will be made up of 4 pilots. Initially there will be no ground war but one could later be added if the event is successful.
Campaigns will be on a night that does not compete with any other event. There will be one or more concurrent missions run with corresponding counter missions. The side commanders will work together to assure that the forces meet in battle. Following the nights battle the cm team will start all the admin work for the following weeks battle.
The staff will be made up of experienced players and former SEA and AVA staff members.
It will require an arena that has logging capability and greater than 16 player capacity. It would be helpful if it could be password protected.
Future HTC developments such as a coop AI mission system could be incorporated to add numbers.
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I care. The OP's post seems to be a request to make the lack of patience of some to fly to a fight and spend the time doing so obsolete. There is plenty of instant action in the MA. Just up from a base being attacked. Oh, wait, you don't want to do that because you would then be at a disadvantage? Cry Then take off one base away and fly there. Oh, wait you don't want to spend the time doing that? Cry
I think you complete misjudge what I'm asking for. In fact, I think that what I envision would require even MORE patience, not less. Flying in a formation of bombers taking off from France and flying to the UK, jumping into fighter sweeps already airborne - you would have to be MUCH more patient waiting for fights, it'll be more like FSO than the MA, that's for certain.
Posting little crybaby faces like I'm whining about not being able to handle the MA instant action?! WTH is wrong with you, that's not what I asked for at all in an AI type of supported arena. Personally, my kill per time ratio is always in the top 20 or 30 of the entire arena nearly every month, I'm getting between 9 and 11 kills every hour usually. In order to have numbers like that you can't spend time transiting or climbing looking for advantage obviously, and that's not why I'm asking for an AI arena, it has nothing to do with it IMO anyway.
I find fights very quickly and have no complaints at all about that, nor have I made any, not the opposite like you're making up from thin air. And besides, captain reading mis-comprehension, I said several times that I wasn't asking for this in the main arena, or game wide, just an arena - I used AvA as an example, as AvA type scenarios is what would work best - that would have AI aircraft as WELL as human pilots, in order to be able to create huge FSO like scenarios and missions almost instantly. NOT because I'm "whining" or "cry baby face icons" because I don't want or can't find fights, or don't want to "spend the time doing x or y" like you said, it's the precise opposite IMO, players would HAVE to spend more time and thought in this type of arena, as opposed to just clicking take off, and flying a few minutes to a fight.
Just because you dislike an idea doesn't give you license to create your own ridiculous reasons for why someone comes up with it.
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Don't worry about it Gman.
We in AvA have been lobbying for this for years now. If we get it, we will definitely put it through it's paces and with what our content creation guys can do with it, You will love it.