Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: jollyFE on May 04, 2013, 02:38:52 PM
-
Need some ideas for a PC build. It's for my oldest ( who starts college in the fall), he wants a desktop and is dead set against a laptop. I would like to have it come in below $1000.00 if possible. There's no doubt in my mind that this would have to be able to be a gamer build. He's always playing Wow, LoL and WoT with his friends. I was thinking at least an I5 (preferably an I7) for some longevity on this machine. I haven't built an intel before(only AMD). I have always been an nvidia guy so I really don't know much about the ati cards.
He is going to be majoring in Aerospace Engineering.
Anyways, the last time I built a pc was back in 08 so I haven't really been keeping up with the latest and greatest.
Thanks in advance.
-
I built last year and went Intel..before i USED amd , before that I used Intel
I personally didn't like the way I read about AMD peformance and the way they went with thier product.(my personal opinion and I am not a fanboy of either)
I built a
Intel 3570k unlocked
Gigabyte motherboard
Ati 6950 2gb
Patriot memory
I have had good luck with gigabyte and I was close to a ASUS but I liked the features on the board I bought more for the price range
ATI vs Nvidia have used them both, but at this time I went with the 6950..
The memory, I went with 2133 incase I want to overclock and get wild someday, but its not needed, 1600 of some good lower lantency lifetime memory would be fine. 8GB should be plenty unless the PC is going to be used with some type of software that could use more RAM.
Micro center had some good deals when I bought my CPU and motherboard, much better then newegg. Microcenter would be worth checking out if youhave one close enough and a person can check thier online add at thier websight.
You can build yourself a fast puter for under a 1000
-
when you buy the mobo look real good at the combo's that they offer with either cpu or ram. same for ps. you can save an extra 15 or 20 bucks. also compare prizes with amazon as amazon had free shipping if you spend over 25 bucks.
semp
-
I think Intel is coming out with new chips this quarter. The word on current chips is the i5 is plenty for gaming. Will an aerospace engineer need the hyperthreading from an i7? I don't know. His department at the university should have specifications for computing that he will need - including software. The university probably has a computer store that has good deals on reccomended builds. You might build one cheaper, but you can at least see what the specs they are recommending.
-
K series I5 Ivy Bridge, suitable mobo, DDR3 1600+ RAM, $250-350 6 series Nvidia card or ATI equivalent... boom!
-
K series I5 Ivy Bridge, suitable mobo, DDR3 1600+ RAM, $250-350 6 series Nvidia card or ATI equivalent... boom!
Yep.
Also 2 more things: HDD(s) and DVD Burner
You can easily build a screaming PC for under $1K nowadays.
-
K series I5 Ivy Bridge, suitable mobo, 8GB DDR3 1600 RAM, $250-350 6 series Nvidia card or ATI equivalent, 600W Seasonic PSU, HDD, el cheapo DVD... boom!
Fixed some stuff, but pretty much what you said. A fine, balanced machine just under 1000$
-
Memory: not slower than 1600 but get sticks operating at standard voltag and without the fancy heatsinks.
Many use at least an 128GB SSD for OS and some preferred games with a 2TB drive for Data storage
PSU: get a quality one with 80+ Silver Minimum, 500-700W depending on Graphics card
-
thanks for the ideas folks
-
Just built in January: i5 3750k with asrock xtreme4 MB. ($90 off newegg price instore at microcenter); 8gb corsair vengeance 1600 low profile memory; xfx 7870 2gb video card; 1tb hardrive; seasonic 620w modular power supply; asus Dvd burner; coolermaster 212+ Cpu cooler; HAF 912 case; and win7 os. I added some case fans and had a dell monitor. Total (without monitor) was about 900-950 when I bought. The key was in store price in micro center for Cpu/Mb combo. Oh, really love the computer!
-
Of course it all depends on how the puter is to be used. A gaming computer will have different requirements than a work computer yes?
You stated it was for school work, so you want reliability over all else, so that he does not lose his homework.
With that in mind you want spin drives, possibly in a RAID 1 setup. ????? This would back up all his work and help with any failures forcing downtime. I use SSD's now, game puter, but I have had good luck with Western Digital HDD's. At least have a 2nd HD to act as a storage drive so that if OS drive gets bunged his work is covered.
I would suggest a w7 64 bit system so you could give him a lot of ram. 1366MHz or higher ram a must. Minimum 8 GB's. I have had good performance out of Kingston ram. Several kinds, no failures.
Choose a mobo with onboard sound and Ethernet capabilities. PCI-e 3, USB 3, SATA 6GB/s. I use Gigabyte UD mobos . 2 boards never a mobo issue. Make sure you get latest bios installed before you install OS. See QVL for listed ram.
Choose a high end vid card. He is liable to be doing some technical drawing. So a card with a lot of ram and speed a must.
Choose a 3 GHz or higher cpu. Lets face it, faster is better. I use Intel. Never had a cpu failure and I OC.
Get a good case with plenty of airflow. I use the CoolerMaster HAF 932. Its a huge case but its all metal and breathes well. And it can be used in the future for new builds. Lots of room, ez to work with.
Minimum 750W power supply. Better to have too much than not enough. Again I use CoolerMaster in 2 machines, no failures, more than 4 years now.
You might also consider a UPS. Depending on where he is living, dorm, frat house, might just help protect the loss of the machine due to power failures. A battery backup would help him save current work if the power crashes while he is working homework, as well as condition the power so machine gets what it needs. Can be cost prohibitive.????? I use CyberPower UPS's.
The monitor, get as big as you dare. Could help with technical drawings, easier to see.
For cost, I use MS KB's and mouse, cheaper than dirt. Spend it on the vid card and mobo, IMO.
Finally, check out Newegg. My last build, I ended up buying the majority of hardware thier. Free shipping, depending, and great prices. Added bonus, you will then get all kinds of promotional offers for future. Still, shop around 1st, I just found Newegg to be worth it.
S
-
Very good summary, MADe. I'd like to comment a couple of lines, though:
Reliability is desirable, but I've seen both disks in a raid1 array fail beyond recognize, the owner being a young engineer who should have some kind of a technical mindset. An external hard disk, unplugged when not in use, is IMO among the best device in duplicating valuable works. For maximum security, another external containing triplicates and stored in a totally different location is a cost effective solution. Burning copies to optical disks can also do. Even a full backup of a working system is an easy task to do every now and then to minimize the downtime in case of a hard disk failure. The level of security is a matter of personal preferences. - I once read about an editor who had optical backups stored in a warehouse where he had rented some space. Stacks of bulk tubes of cd's and dvd's carefully labeled, periodically tested and reburned, containing all of his career as a pioneering Internet publisher.
A too powerful power supply can cause problems. The extra power has to do something according to the law of conservation of energy. 750W used to be a minimum for a couple of years ago, but today an 80+ 550W might be better. Today's components draw less juice than those of yesteryear. E.G. Intel Core2Quad processors max TDP could be as much as 105W, whereas the before mentioned highly popular i5-3750k only draws 77W. Similar development has been seen in video cards.
-
Im sceptical on the 750W PSU as well.
Lets count a bit:
-intel CPU, 75W on paper, lets say, 125W for safety (OC, etc)
-Ati 7900 series video card (theese consumpt the most nowadays): 225W, let it be 275.
-mobo, ram, hdd, ssd, etc etc, surely less than 100W. Thats 500W with large OCing margins. 750W is for the 2-way SLI/Crossfire systems pulled like crazy.
A quality 550W should be (as always been) enough for every rationally built system.
-
The problem with raid 1 is that it only protects against a sudden disastrous hardware failure, that's when the other disk is left intact. It does not protect for non-sudden failure where data is starting to corrupt. The corrupt data will be written on both drives just as corrupt.
-
no need for raid, unless you have data that must be backed up. then again a flash drive will be more than enough for 90% of the people. or you can also use a cd for back up. all my songs (800 Beatles songs :old:) are backed up in 20 cd's and that's because 4 times is better than 1. my daughter's birthday pics are b/u in a flash stick. hey priorities here.
j/k my granddaughter's pics are b/u more than the pentagon b/u their own servers. but I still only have 2 hd and not in any raid.
semp
-
RAID 1 is not the only backup contingent to be sure. I suggested it in case of actual hardware failure. ie the OS drive craps out. Then he could just reset bios and quickly access and continue to work. Point being was to provide a contingency plan for the just in cases. A kid in school may be having exams tomorrow, if the OS HDD hardware breaks tonight, he would have minimal downtime and can keep working. Fixing overall system when time permits.
I myself would get a personal cloud HDD. Separate, easially unplugable, convienant, close at hand when you want to backup certain files as well as OS drive, more cost. Western Digital, 1 TB cloud, $130.00
I myself would never use a super large drive for OS drive, but that's me.
I use a 900w psu in my game computer, listed in sig. It is true that modern components use less power, multi vid card systems need a little something something tho. If system does not need it, it will not hurt anything but wallet. System will draw whats necessary and that's it. Cannot hurt. Just makes for beefier PSU guts. Afterall its about the amps and heat. Certain things can be used over long periods of time if they are quality, a PSU is one of these. Like a good case, it can be used for new builds in future. I fully expect to never buy a new case or PSU again, I bought quality now for life time service, my life time that is.
You never know, he might let a friend convince him to push the system, they are kids. Plus you gotta know he will play games on it.
-
Wait until June 2nd when the new Intel i5 and i7 CPUs come out. Even if you get the old (current) models, they'll cost less then.
I would say get the i7. Hyperthreading is important to things other than games. And even for games, with the new consoles using up to 8 cores natively, the speculation is that many games being ported to both PC and the console platforms will expect to have a lot more cores than they do now. The cost differential of ~ $100 is insignificant compared to the cost waiting for programs to run in pursuit of an Aero degree that costs many 10s of thousands.
-
RAID 1 is not the only backup contingent to be sure. I suggested it in case of actual hardware failure. ie the OS drive craps out. Then he could just reset bios and quickly access and continue to work. Point being was to provide a contingency plan for the just in cases. A kid in school may be having exams tomorrow, if the OS HDD hardware breaks tonight, he would have minimal downtime and can keep working. Fixing overall system when time permits.
That sure is the worst scenario! Again, as has been said here, the need for backing up varies from flash drives to raid systems and each one has to determine his needs all by himself.
Regarding power supplies, I believe that Skyzzy knows something about what he wrote some time ago:
Switching power supplies deliver the best (cleanest) power when they are between 75 and 80 percent load.
Under reduced loads power supplies cannot come close to their efficiency rating. They run hotter. The produce far dirtier power which also causes other analog components (hard drives, burners,...) to die sooner. They cause fans to run noisier. All motors run hotter. This is due to the power having spikes in it which are not converted to motive power, but simply cause more heat to be generated in the copper windings.
If the motherboard does not have sufficient filtering for the power, then the components on the motherboard will also run hotter and premature failures can result.
If the loads on the power supply exceed 85% to 90%, the same problem occurs, but with with accelerated results as the supply cannot generate enough internal power to filter the output well enough.
If your computer is suffering from stability issues, and/or component failures, then you probably need to look no further than your power supply as the cause.
Right now, Seasonic is making the best power supplies available. They also make all the best supplies available from Corsair, Thermaltake, and many other companies.
-
If you really want to keep backups of your data, a dvd, bluray or tape backup is the best. Then the backup needs to be stored somewhere away from your house.
If the house burns down all your backups will burn with it. Something to think of.
-
RAID 1 is not for backup or to deal with OS corruption. It's simply there to handle a single drive failure. I use it as a cheaply priced precaution at home.
Backup is entirely different. And like MrRipley stated, the media used for a backup would need to be stored at another location.
Ideally, if you have data that can't be replaced or has high sentimental value, back it up on multiple devices and keep them in separate locations.
-
Ideally, if you have data that can't be replaced or has high sentimental value, back it up on multiple devices and keep them in separate locations.
What I did was bought three different backups - I have a one terabyte western digital book - Its not collected to my PC but it is on my desk, disconnected - I will connect it when I need it.
In my fireproof safe I keep a 1.5TB terabyte backup - it only comes out when I absolutely need to update it - otherwise it stays in my safe and never comes out.
I also have a 32GB Solid state drive which I use for a third backup - it basically has my absolutely most needed backup - passwords and tax information and such and most of my emails/game downloads.
On top of that I bought a Battery backup (for gaming PCs) for $125 when I built this PC while back - over all I spent around $350 for everything.
I've been through a house fire, dropping a backup drive and having it not run anymore - harddrive failure, Raid 0 failure - ever since the previous backup drive that failed and I lost everything - I keep three now.
Nothing on my PC is worth keeping, but the time that would take me to get everything back is the pain in the bellybutton part, my passwords to emails - and my downloaded games - having to redo all this is just a waste of time, I keep them on my drive even my aces high folder.
I made it so if something goes wrong (well it is windows operating system) I can just wipe everythign and be back up and running in half a day.
-
i keep my backups in a sentrysafe fire/waterproof safe. used to have 2 safes, 1 in a self storage unit and the other at the house, but since i trimmed my lifestyle down a lot, don't need a self storage unit.
-
i keep my backups in a sentrysafe fire/waterproof safe. used to have 2 safes, 1 in a self storage unit and the other at the house, but since i trimmed my lifestyle down a lot, don't need a self storage unit.
Storage unit + backups + forgotten payment = nudies of wife in Storage Wars :devil
-
Storage unit + backups + forgotten payment = nudies of wife in Storage Wars :devil
:O :rofl :lol :rofl :lol now that's seriously funny. i can see it happening to someone...
-
Backups.
Remember were talking about a kid and his school work. If the OS drive fails at an inopertune moment, whats gonna get him up fast so he can continue quickly, without losing the work. He will be in a dorm or off campus house. He will have numbnut friends possibly playing with machine as well. This is not a business where he will want a wide variety of back up methods on saved data.
Whats gonna keep computer running for him.
Power
I have never heard of using minimal power from a power supply device causing issues. Amperage draw causes heat, dirt and bad fan cooling cause heat. The power usage needs to be balanced, but not using all that's available should not cause heat. I use UPS's that condition the power entering my psu's, so I have never had an issue with them and I do under use there potential. Not an engineer but I deal with electricity a lot.
http://ask-leo.com/is_it_safe_to_install_a_higher_wattage_power_supply_in_my_computer.html
perused the net a mo, most seem to think that too much cannot hurt, just less efficient.???????????????????
-
Switching power supplies do not provide clean power, until they are under a load. Most of the better supplies simply do not turn on if he load is not high enough. How much of a load will depend on the supply.
Generally speaking, a switching supply provides its cleanest power at about 75 to 80 percent load. The lower the load, the noisier the power is. One of the side effects of that is all the DC motors, in a computer, will run hotter than normal. Get enough noise, and MOSFETS will eventually fail taking out many more circuits. It is a slow death for a computer. None of this happens over night.
That link is full of bad advice.
-
The link was just the only one I put up. I found many that stated the same info tho.
Again I have never heard having to much wattage available is bad. The machine will draw what it draws. The psu you does not jamb volts into the puter. The components draw it out as needed. Not trying to argue with anyone, just think its a moot point.
I advise anyone building there own box to research, research, research before leaping, saves headaches with build. Saves a few bucks as well.
-
The link was just the only one I put up. I found many that stated the same info tho.
Again I have never heard having to much wattage available is bad. The machine will draw what it draws. The psu you does not jamb volts into the puter. The components draw it out as needed. Not trying to argue with anyone, just think its a moot point.
I advise anyone building there own box to research, research, research before leaping, saves headaches with build. Saves a few bucks as well.
You are not familiar with switching power supplies. If it was a linear power supply, then it would not make any difference. The nature of a switching power supply requires a load for them to output power and a high load to output clean power.
Too small of a switcher is a bad idea. Too big of a switcher is not as bad as too small, but it will lead to long term stability problems with any of the current high end systems today.
I am an electrical engineer. I do have a very good handle on how these work.
-
Here you can find the best power supply reviews anywhere on the internet IMO: http://hardocp.com/reviews/psu_power_supplies
And with regards to the recent debate in this thread and the other one, they test them at 25%, 50%, and 75%, in addition to 100% of rated load, to see how they behave. Pick one of the ones they rated highly and you're good.
-
Here you can find the best power supply reviews anywhere on the internet IMO: http://hardocp.com/reviews/psu_power_supplies
And with regards to the recent debate in this thread and the other one, they test them at 25%, 50%, and 75%, in addition to 100% of rated load, to see how they behave. Pick one of the ones they rated highly and you're good.
Yet I'd like to remind that no reviews test the longevity of any PSU. An electrician friend of mine has many times told me how poor components are being used in many of the test winners, making the PSU's fail even in a year or less. He even has renamed many brands, such as An-crap and Ener-boom... Lately he got himself a well-designed PSU and immediately changed all the capacitors to quality ones before installing it into his computer. I don't know if the warranty repair companies have to make an agreement not to tell which brands or models fail most often, at least such information about current devices seems to be very hard to find.
-
You are not familiar with switching power supplies. If it was a linear power supply, then it would not make any difference. The nature of a switching power supply requires a load for them to output power and a high load to output clean power.
Too small of a switcher is a bad idea. Too big of a switcher is not as bad as too small, but it will lead to long term stability problems with any of the current high end systems today.
I am an electrical engineer. I do have a very good handle on how these work.
So are you saying that the basic computer PSU are all switching type? or are they linear?
and what span of time are you talking about that can cause issues. 1 year or 10 or 20. Obviously 1 year is problematical but from 10 and on, what would it really matter, most will have upgraded to a new system after that time. They would have almost had to considering how quickly OS changes would have happened as well as the hardware that would have become available. My oldest working machine is a little over 10 years old. It will only run XP at this point. It was too advanced to run 95 thru XP when I built it.
This is why I think its really a moot point. As I said, all the psu's I use are under used. None have ever failed, or killed a mobo, but then each one has a power conditioner of its own. I would think the USA power grid kills quite a few.
Chit they're all made in China, like most puter parts. They are all the same inside I would think. DC converters.
-
There are no linear power supplies in any computer. They would be far to large and heavy to accommodate the required output.
Time spans for damage cannot be calculated due to the enormous number of variables involved. Too many of which are not static.
Switching power supplies are regulated by the output demand. They are a closed loop system. This is why they need a load to provide power. Without sufficient load, the supply will simply not provide any power. Here is a grossly simplified explanation; Switching supplies work by increasing the frequency of the power as the load increases. If the load drops too low and causes the frequency to be below the input frequency, then all manner of noise is introduced into the output.
Without knowing specifics of the supply design, you can only make some gross assumptions about the operational range of the supply where clean power is produced. Generally speaking it is between 60 and 75 percent. You might get away with 50 to 75 percent, in a good supply, with an active PFC and decent capacitors.
One of the main problems with dirty power is it usually is mistaken for other problems with a computer. Stability issues, memory errors, hard drive problems and a host of other issues can all be traced back to dirty power as a potential cause.
As the voltage level requirements drop for components, the higher potential for dirty power to cause more problems. Hence, what you could get away with five years ago, would fail miserably today.
-
Ty,
I've learned something.
-
Jollyfe, I'm curious if you checked with the university to see if they had recommendations and, if so, what they were. I'm also curious if the aerospace program had any recommendations specific to that program. I know George Mason has recommendations that are minimal, but a music major at another university needed a macintosh that could run a specific program for her music major- much to her parent's dismay!
-
Haven't checked yet, it's on his to do list. For some reason AFROTC has his focus at the moment(no idea where that came from)