Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ray77 on May 09, 2013, 07:07:57 AM
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If you guys aren't following the general on facebook you are missing out. He's been posting daily updates about his life, but mostly about his time in WWII.
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I've read his books about his interesting life and was mostly after his ww2 service. I will have to check it out. :aok
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chuck-Yeager/465193060493 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chuck-Yeager/465193060493)
A snipet..............
"1944: After not finding my flight, I started heading bck to base-still searching for opportunities. I saw an Me262 on final, gear down. I jumped him. Unsportsmanlike, but what the hell? I was closing in on him like mad. But flak was trying to shooot me out of the sky. I hit him, he rolled up, one more air victory. But the flak was everywhere....how the heck am I going to get out of this?" Chuck Yeager
This reminds me that we play a game............
"My response to people who say they wished they could have flown combat in WWII is: 23 of the 30 pilots w/ whom I started out, didn't make it home. Guys aged 20-25."
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Yeah, it is really cool to see his anecdotes. He has even posted some of his old logs and after action reports. Cools stuff.
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I'll get to it but .... this makes me a bit worried, actually.
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I'll get to it but .... this makes me a bit worried, actually.
How so?
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I consider General Yeager the greatest living American.
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How so?
He's 90 now and wasn't the most reminiscing of sorts in his prior years, if I recall. Also, he's
the last person I would have imagined being active of Facebook. Eh, maybe it's just me.
He's one of my heroes just like most here, I reckon.
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http://flic.kr/p/9iQMF7 (http://flic.kr/p/9iQMF7)
Caption this
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http://flic.kr/p/9iQMF7 (http://flic.kr/p/9iQMF7)
Caption this
"I see you are going to be a handful"
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http://flic.kr/p/9iQMF7 (http://flic.kr/p/9iQMF7)
Caption this
<weighing the possibilities> "yes ma'am i know you have eyes"...
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My intent of posting this is not meant to ruin your image of a great American and hero - BUT:
When I was stationed at Seymour Johnson AFB as an Airman, junior Airman at that, I made a friend at the now defunct AF hospital. Some of you may know that at one time (early 70's) General Yeager was the Wing Commander of the 4th Fighter Wing.
Eventually, he retired as a 1 star - maybe 2 - honestly I can't remember but I DO remember seeing his portrait on the wall in the hospital and FW HQ building.
My friend stated that General Yeager had retired close by, or at least I remember that frequented the base to utilize his veteran's benefits, to include medical care at the hospital. Evidently, he was not the most friendly customer at the hospital, and the staff at the time dreaded his visits. He expected to be placed at the front of the line and would not accept current policy concerning care given to patients - in other words - when I come in, I expect to place int he front of the queue. If he was not accommodated, then my friend stated he witnessed the General raise hell and demand preference.
This always stuck with me, but that makes sense. I was enlisted and dealt with the demands of commissioned personnel frequently:)
Anyways, I will checkout General Yeager's FB page. Thanks for sharing.
Respectfully,
Ammo
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Yeah, some let their great accomplishments go to their heads. Steve Ritchie, of Vietnam Nam fame, was known to behave in a similar fashion.
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Yeah, some let their great accomplishments go to their heads. Steve Ritchie, of Vietnam Nam fame, was known to behave in a similar fashion.
Randy "Duke" Cunningham. I still have respect for the man.
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Yeager was living in Grass Valley, which isn't all that far from Oroville. If you've read his autobiography you know the significance of Oroville.
In the late '80's I had a friend that was working at Ray Gouge Firestone in Marysville. A sporting goods, and tire store. Yeager use to go in there from time to time to get hunting supplies. My friend was sure to tell me every time he saw him too. Knowing what a plane freak I am. I never did get to meet him, or even see him for that matter.
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Randy "Duke" Cunningham. I still have respect for the man.
Didn't Cunningham spend some time in prison?
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Didn't Cunningham spend some time in prison?
Yes he did. The whole affair is a shame. Took bribes as an elected politician.
If you haven't done so, look up his encounter with the North Vietnamese Ace
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I was going to post on his FB page and ask him what he felt about George Welch unofficially breaking the sound barrier twice before him but then some would think it was just a troll.
ack-ack
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f-86's were going supersonic in dives pretty regularly but the x1 flight was the first level crossing of the sound barrier. so just consider the f86 supersonic dives along the lines of getting to first base and the x1 flight actually popping the cherry.
as for yeager being an jackarse I am sure he is. its required to be a general and a fighter pilot that you think you are god. (in most cases though exceptions can be made)
my favorite anecdote is of yeager and neil armstrong gettign stuck in a dry lake after yeager warned him not to land there... "he couldnt fly his way out of a paper bag" was Yeager's view of amrstrongs pilot skills lol
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I consider General Yeager the greatest living American.
Bob Hoover would head a mile long list of names before I even got to considering Yeager.
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f-86's were going supersonic in dives pretty regularly but the x1 flight was the first level crossing of the sound barrier. so just consider the f86 supersonic dives along the lines of getting to first base and the x1 flight actually popping the cherry.
Regardless if Welch went supersonic in a dive, he was still the first to break it and broke it again shortly before Yeager did it in the X-1. The only difference was that Yeager had official monitors to monitor the flight while Welch didn't, even though the flight data from the XF-86 confirms Welch's breaking of the sound barrier. If Welch's flight had official monitors, he would have been credited as the first, not Yeager.
ack-ack
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Bob Hoover would head a mile long list of names before I even got to considering Yeager.
This
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Would be cool if we could get him in the MA :noid
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Regardless if Welch went supersonic in a dive, he was still the first to break it and broke it again shortly before Yeager did it in the X-1. The only difference was that Yeager had official monitors to monitor the flight while Welch didn't, even though the flight data from the XF-86 confirms Welch's breaking of the sound barrier. If Welch's flight had official monitors, he would have been credited as the first, not Yeager.
ack-ack
Indeed, first is still first.... The British record for the first supersonic flight by a Brit plane was made by John Derry, diving a DH-108 Swallow. Unlike Welch in the XF-86, the DH-108 did so out of control. Bee Beamont was the first British pilot to exceed Mach 1, in.... You guessed it.. The XP-86 in May of 1948. Welch had a hand in that too....
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That would be the George Welch of the also from Wilmington, DE tribe. :aok
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I was going to post on his FB page and ask him what he felt about George Welch unofficially breaking the sound barrier twice before him but then some would think it was just a troll.
ack-ack
You should hunt him down at some convention and confront him with your empirical data!
We would get another great youtube video like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wcrkxOgzhU
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You should hunt him down at some convention and confront him with your empirical data!
We would get another great youtube video like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wcrkxOgzhU
Classic!
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Bob Hoover would head a mile long list of names before I even got to considering Yeager.
Make the case. It's all for fun, it's inarguable that they are the greatest of a great generation. Kinda like choosing between Orr and Howe.
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Well .. Yeager refused to attend Air Warrior conventions when invited ..so we got the guy who taught him to fly combat.
Ya ..Yeager was the dweeb wingman with the short list of what he was allowed to say on the radio.
The pilot of the 'Old Crow' .. 'Bud' Anderson.
A gracious guest, easygoing, approachable ..he 'got it' about the whole online air combat experience.
He said:
'The only thing different about what you do is ..I had to do it right the first time, I did not get any 'do-over''
..and
'You guys have more hours spent in combat than we did'
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q260/1grayeagle/misc/2Eagles.jpg) (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/1grayeagle/media/misc/2Eagles.jpg.html)
I'd start my list with Bud, then Bob Hoover (who signed my shirt at Reno long ago)
..but ..that's just me :)
-Frank aka GE
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GE! Long time no see. Was going through your art and reminiscing just the other day. :)
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It's generally accepted now that Welch was first to exceed mach 1 in the XP-86. Which of course takes nothing away from
Yeager's achievement in the Bell X1. Neither of course were the first to exceed Mach 1, just the first to survive it.
But if you really want to rile the general ask him about his accident in the NF-104. A contemporary of his is rather less than complimentary about this incident. Lt Col Robert W. Smith, USAF.
http://www.kalimera.org/nf104/stories/stories_11.html
But to be fair none of the rest of us are fit to be criticising Yeager or casting doubts on his achievements. He is a living legend. As is the British equivalent Capt. Eric Brown who but for the usual British cock ups, might well be the first man to go supersonic. I wonder does he have a Facebook page?
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I'd start my list with Bud, then Bob Hoover (who signed my shirt at Reno long ago)
..but ..that's just me :)
-Frank aka GE
Bud Anderson should sit up there with you.
I have met a few others that are notable. Met Gabreski at the WB con in Raleigh - I believe it was 1999 but could have been 2000. He was truly a nice guy. I met Tex Hill in San Antonio at a modelling show. I had recently built a 1:48 J2M and wanted to see if I would place - didn't even get a look:) But Tex and a few other WW2 pilots were there and I was able to chat with them for over a half an hour. Well worth my time.
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As for not being fit to criticise ..speak for yourself.
I call 'em as I see 'em.
Act a jack-tard and be treated as such.. don't care who you think you may be.
Doing something that makes you famous is far less important than being a reasonable human being.
But .. that's just me.
-Frank aka GE
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As said before Hoover did it in a power dive. Yeager did it in level flight. Big difference. Just like Sheppard going into space and Gagarin going into orbit.
Apples and oranges.
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Grayeagle I meant his pilot history, not his personality. My own view from reading his book is that he is rather less than modest. Some of it is frankly hard to believe. Particularly his so called 'combat vision' out to sixty miles.
He's not the only famous pilot who may have been not such a great person. Douglas Bader was another such I believe.
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Grayeagle I meant his pilot history, not his personality. My own view from reading his book is that he is rather less than modest. Some of it is frankly hard to believe. Particularly his so called 'combat vision' out to sixty miles.
He's not the only famous pilot who may have been not such a great person. Douglas Bader was another such I believe.
In that note, I recently read Robin Olds book. He is a leader I would loved to have worked for. If you haven't read the book, I encourage you too.
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I have 20/10 vision as tested by a flight surgeon upon entrance into the NAVcad program.
Luckily for pilots, you lose your close distance vision as you age if you start with 20/10 as a kid.
Sadly, for computer operators, mechanics, electronic technicians.....etc.....you will need reader glasses to see anything close and have to make sure you wear them only as needed.
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Regardless if Welch went supersonic in a dive, he was still the first to break it and broke it again shortly before Yeager did it in the X-1. The only difference was that Yeager had official monitors to monitor the flight while Welch didn't, even though the flight data from the XF-86 confirms Welch's breaking of the sound barrier. If Welch's flight had official monitors, he would have been credited as the first, not Yeager.
Wasn't his supersonic boom heard all around? what other indicator is needed?
btw,
most hotshot pilots are total a-holes in person. There are a few which escape this pattern, but unfortunately most don't.
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In that note, I recently read Robin Olds book. He is a leader I would loved to have worked for. If you haven't read the book, I encourage you too.
I just finished his book as well. What a man
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But to be fair none of the rest of us are fit to be criticising Yeager or casting doubts on his achievements. He is a living legend. As is the British equivalent Capt. Eric Brown who but for the usual British cock ups, might well be the first man to go supersonic. I wonder does he have a Facebook page?
I don't know General Yeager personally so I can't say if he's a good man or not, but he certainly was a ruthless warrior, who shot German pilots in their chutes. I'm not saying that's wrong btw. just ruthless. Captain Brown I had the pleasure of meeting back in 2007, and I got to attend his seminar on the quest for speed during and after WWII. I recorded his presentation and can put it up on vimeo or something if anyone's interested?
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Wasn't his supersonic boom heard all around? what other indicator is needed?
an official with a radar gun. :D
ack-ack
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I recorded his presentation and can put it up on vimeo or something if anyone's interested?
Would be interesting.
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In that note, I recently read Robin Olds book. He is a leader I would loved to have worked for. If you haven't read the book, I encourage you too.
Absolutely, he was the kind of guy who had the kind of situational awareness where he could see and have time to congratulate another pilot on his kill, while he was in the middle of his own furball. A real leader, that rarest of men.
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Bud Anderson is an absolute legend. Owns his old mustang too. Still flies Old Crow as far as I know.
Chuck Yeager is quite rightly a great man, but his ego is a match to his status. Which while polite (I met him briefly at the Avalon International Airshow), you can tell an arrogant SOB when you see one, mind you he has every right to be considering his achievements. "A great man is seldom ever a good one"
Robin Old's however in my opinion is the finest American air combat leader that has ever been. In touch with his men, fights with them, and never puts their assses on the line unless he was there too.
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Bud Anderson is an absolute legend. Owns his old mustang too. Still flies Old Crow as far as I know.
Bud Anderson doesn't own his own Mustang.
ack-ack
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Bud Anderson doesn't own his own Mustang.
ack-ack
Last I heard Jack Roush owns both "Old Crow" P-51's. A B with a Malcolm hood and a D.
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Where is it recorded that Yeager shot a German pilot in his parachute? I know Pete Peterson admitted to doing it ONCE, but he explained that he had witnessed that very German pilot shooting at B17 bomber crewman who had bailed out so Peterson attached himself to THAT German airplane and pecked away at it until he got that German pilot to bail out. He then shot him in his chute. Tit for tat. That's the only bit I have ever read/heard/seen on any 357th pilot gunning a German pilot in his chute. If you have a link or some data it would well be worth a read.
Chuck Yeager, now 90 years old, has been in a generally sad state of affairs these past half dozen years as the old man married a woman half his age with a well documented reputation for being a gold digger. As a result Yeager has been ad odds with his children versus his estate and is now thoroughly estranged from his children. A very sad story.
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Bud Anderson is the one who shot a german in his chute.
He did it after witnessing the a german pilot do it to an allied flier......so he carefully shot up the plane to spare the pilot and then shot him after he chuted out.
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Bud Anderson is the one who shot a german in his chute.
He did it after witnessing the a german pilot do it to an allied flier......so he carefully shot up the plane to spare the pilot and then shot him after he chuted out.
Do yourself a favor and read his book. Bud Anderson never shot a German pilot that had bailed out.
"There were plenty of guys on both sides who would strafe a downed airman, on the theory that he could kill you tomorrow ... There was gallantry in the air war. There was cruelty too. There were some who strafed parachutes ... everyone draws his own moral line. That was mine. I never strafed parachutes ..." (Anderson, To Fly and Fight, p.111)
ack-ack
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Bud Anderson is the one who shot a german in his chute.
He did it after witnessing the a german pilot do it to an allied flier......so he carefully shot up the plane to spare the pilot and then shot him after he chuted out.
Pretty clearly remember Pete Peterson telling the story on the video history of the 357th.
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You have to read all of Yeager's entries on his FB page for the last couple of months. There is some hilarious stuff there, it reminds me of my grandfather when he hit 90 - he too decided to just tell people what he thought without any sort of filter between brain and mouth. This is fantastic stuff.
He's said that the Spitfire was pretty much garbage, and has gone on to argue with a bunch of angry British guys, and has repeatedly said that the USA "saved the UK", in such a way to try and entice people to argue with him. It's funny to see a guy his age trolling his on FB page, and doing a super job at it.
Someone asked me what English planes I've flown: I did all the work on the Hawker Hunter and I flew the Spitfire - not much of an airplane
Some British really hated to see an ex-colony come over and save their .....
Sandy Lyman Hintz Have you read the other posts - clearly not "everyone". You clearly never flew it or many other airplanes. And: spoken like a true Brit who'd rather live in America
There are HUNDREDS of responses from him fighting with guys....entertaining if you have the time to read through it all.
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Just deleted someone as a friend who was very nasty and rude when I would not give her a free autograph. I asked her to clean my house for free for a year. She didn't understand the point.
Funny stuff from a 90 year old.
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Pretty clearly remember Pete Peterson telling the story on the video history of the 357th.
It was him. In another mission, he and another pilot, Charles Sumner Jr. engaged a Me 109 and forced it to crash land in a field and then both strafed the crashed Me 109 and pilot.
Apparently strafing downed Luftwaffe pilots on the ground was fairly common, enough so that Hitler gave orders in May 1944 to the German High Command to immediately execute any Allied pilot that was captured after strafing downed Luftwaffe pilots. Also during this time, Himmler issued secret orders to the local police and Home Guard throughout Germany to kill any parachuting Allied pilot that was captured.
ack-ack
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This reminds me that we play a game............
"My response to people who say they wished they could have flown combat in WWII is: 23 of the 30 pilots w/ whom I started out, didn't make it home. Guys aged 20-25."
If Yeager ever tells me 23 of 30 didn't make it back, I'll tell him I would have been sorry for those 23 other guys.
I play a game because I was born in the wrong decade. :D
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I remember watching an interview with Gen. Yeager where he killed a formidable German pilot as he was bailing out. I guess technically this wasn't shooting a man in a parachute since the German didn't even get to open his chute. I remember Yeager saying that as the German ejected his canopy and jumped, Yeager "walked" his guns over him. Yeager also commented, and I paraphrase: "I didn't want to have to fight that guy again."
I also read Gen. Yeager's autobiography many years ago where he wrote that there was a gentleman's agreement between the allies and Germans not to deliberately kill pilots, but that by 1944 both sides were only paying lip service to this agreement. When he himself was shot down over France he was so afraid of being shot by German fighters that he waited to pull his chute until he had entered a cloud layer below, not knowing how much altitude he would have left.
Also in his autobiography he described how he felt bad about being ordered to strafe civilians in late 1944 during a "maximum effort"; they were assigned what would today be called a "kill box" where they would attack anything that moved, to demoralize the German population. They were also ordered to strafe farms and other civilian buildings in the German countryside. I'm not sure I could have done that. During the briefing Yeager said to a fellow pilot (again I paraphrase): "If we do this we'd better win the war". Yeager was a ruthless warrior who strafed helpless enemy pilots and civilians, but at least he has enough of a conscience to feel bad about it.
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It was Bud Peterson....not Bud Anderson.
Names are pretty close which caused the confusion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8LVlYJ5eJU
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So I liked him on FB, frankly it's fairly obvious it's not him posting, maybe he approves the posts but it's not him. At 90 it's to much to ask. Frankly I'm a lot younger but FB is foreign territory for me.
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I considered that too, the writing seems very contemporary and "youngish", especially with the crossing of swords with everyone when given the chance.....it's possible it IS the real Chuck Yeager I suppose, but one of my first fleeting thoughts while reading the entire page was how young an older guy can seem on the net.
One thing to take note of is that there are a couple of different Chuck Yeager pages on FB, the one linked on page one of this thread, and another large one, with much of the same information and posts even, yet missing some from the one on page 1 of the thread. Perhaps the one with all the cross stuff is a fan page, with someone impersonating him....hard to say as well.
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Reading it, I suspect his wife Victoria is running the FB page. Which isn't to say it doesn't have his blessing. A great deal of what 'he' says is not exactly new. It's all there in his biography. Plus some of the comments don't fit as coming from a long time test pilot. Then when you read her own comments and blog they read very similarly.
But I wouldn't call them on it as they seem very litigious. Look what happened to his family!
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Question is what would be her motivation?
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They're probably sipping some tasty drink and having a laugh.
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Question is what would be her motivation
Googling around she has been described as 'fiercely ambitious.' and other less flattering terms. Protecting his legacy? Taking care of business? Chuck Yeager is almost a trademark and there have been several lawsuits where his name was merely mentioned in an advertisement. I suspect Chuck Yeager Inc. does bring in the money.
But you have to look at it from a different angle, why would a 90 year old, ex fighter jock, celebrated test pilot, General of the Air Force, American and world icon spend his latter years on Facebook and Twitter posting several times a day? Often having petty spats with strangers like some half famous celebrity? He has nothing to prove.
Frankly it would be disappointing if it was really him posting.
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It's not Yeager himself, that's pretty obvious. I asked who the editor of the page was and my post got deleted.
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Yes I posted something too, nice and polite like. We'll see how long it lasts.
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I liked Chuck until I met him at Thunder over Michigan a while back. A guy asked Chuck if he could say "hi" on the vid cam to a friend and Chuck said sorry I can't do that. His handlers were total d-bags also.
I had an X-1 "nose art" to have him sign and he said "That's not the real X-1, that's in a museum. I'm not signing that." I thought, no sh.. sherlock!
I had to buy an approved item from the table in front of him and have him sign it.
Being an icon, I figured his head wouldn't be so big to his fans.
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Just seen the latest post on his Facebook page. It refers to this webpage.
http://www.veteransamicus.com/
I have to say I've lost all respect for the man. Because it's obvious he's allowed people around him to exploit his fame and contribution to aviation history. That plus the comment of people who actually met him and their negative reactions.
It's fairly obvious that a certain person is positioning themselves to exploit his name once he dies. It's a shame he can't see it.
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Just seen the latest post on his Facebook page. It refers to this webpage.
http://www.veteransamicus.com/
I have to say I've lost all respect for the man. Because it's obvious he's allowed people around him to exploit his fame and contribution to aviation history. That plus the comment of people who actually met him and their negative reactions.
It's fairly obvious that a certain person is positioning themselves to exploit his name once he dies. It's a shame he can't see it.
I can't sign that petition .. I am not an officially licensed 'friend' of Chuck Yeager.
IMHO he is a bit over the top trying to be a pompous ass.
-GE aka Frank
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Would be interesting.
It's up in the Aircraft and Vehicles section: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,349221.0.html