Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Drano on May 11, 2013, 10:44:09 AM
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OK so I've had the TrackIR for a couple of weeks now and while it hasn't become natural thing for me yet I think once I get the hang of it I'm gonna really like it a lot. Thanks to all that posted profiles. I've tried them all and tweaked one to my liking. I found one thing out tho, a little problem, and had to tweak a little more to get around it.
I wear contacts normally. When I was setting up TrackIR initially I was wearing them and things were working out fine. When I went to fly that night-- wearing my glasses-- occasionally the view would get all wonky, flipping almost straight down. This was annoying as hell! Especially since my down pitch curve only goes maybe 40 degrees! It seemed like it worked fine just looking around but whenever I'd get into a fight it'd screw up and I'd have to pause it to go back to my regular views--defeating the purpose of having it. The next day I went into troubleshooting mode. I tried changing the location of the camera up or down. My monitor sits in a hutch and is a bit far back so I thought it was losing the top of my head. Moved it to the face of the top of the hutch (which was closer vertically to the top of my head anyway) but that didn't help. Finally, I found the culprit. Using the software in camera mode in order to see what the camera was seeing I found in addition to the three dots that represented the reflectors on the ball cap clip, if I tilted my head a certain direction--slightly upwards and to either side--another dot would appear slightly below the three on the clip and the software would start tracking that other dot, effectively flipping my view upside down momentarily until I moved my head again and the dot disappeared. I thought there was something in the room behind my head at first but after waving my hand around I found the problem.
When using the ball cap clip the camera shines IR light at you and it looks for the reflection coming back from the reflectors on the cap. Well my glasses were acting as a reflector too but only when I'd pretty much face the camera dead on. Looking ahead or just about any other direction it'd be fine. So it looks like TrackIR and eyewear is a no go--at least with the ball cap clip. The remedy is to get the Pro Track Clip and change to that in the software. In that mode the camera turns off its IR lights and looks for the IR light shining directly from the clip instead.
As a stopgap measure I've increased the sensitivity of my pitch up axis so I don't have to move my head upwards so far but I don't like it. Too twitchy.But it works. Thought I'd throw this out there in case anyone else has run across the same problem.
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Maybe there's some kind of anti-IR reflection film you could put on your glasses? Or maybe some special safety glasses/goggles that might do the trick? Can you adjust the sensitivity of the TIR camera to perhaps "dull" its senses?
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The remedy is to get the Pro Track Clip and change to that in the software. In that mode the camera turns off its IR lights and looks for the IR light shining directly from the clip instead
Bingo.
I'm using a TrackIR but I still hate it and feel like it is a 'stop-gap' until VR headsets become mainstream. When they do, I'll be using a few illegal fireworks to destroy mine in jubilant glee.
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Bingo.
I'm using a TrackIR but I still hate it and feel like it is a 'stop-gap' until VR headsets become mainstream. When they do, I'll be using a few illegal fireworks to destroy mine in jubilant glee.
Have you tried it with the roll,x,y and z off? have you tried using the speed slider, I have mine around .4 with very aggressive curves. try lowering your FOV to around 90.
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Drano, sounds like your wearing the cap tilted. This makes the camera not able to see all 3 reflectors and it'll default to a limited range of movement - especially down. Found this out by doing the same thing with my headset and the trackclip. Try wearing your cap level - suggest getting one with a small brim. I wear glasses as well, and this seemed to be my problem if the clip was tilted up.
Wurz
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Have you tried it with the roll,x,y and z off? have you tried using the speed slider, I have mine around .4 with very aggressive curves. try lowering your FOV to around 90.
It has nothing to do with the curves or the slider. Until the ratio is 1:1 for head turn versus head turn in the game, TrackIR will always be a stop gap.
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Wurz, Randy: I tested it and it's definitely a reflection coming back from my glasses. If you wear glasses try it wearing the cap clip with the software in camera mode and you'll see what I mean. It sees another reflection (a fourth dot) when you look in a certain direction (generally right back at the camera--slightly up and slightly to either side) and voila--it messes up for a sec. I cover the offending lens on my glasses and the other dot goes away. Can't really fly like that LOL! With my contacts on it's fine, but I don't wear them 24/7. Especially this time of year. My allergies have been bad and by night I'm ready to ditch the contacts to get the crud out of my eyes. The Pro clip with the LEDs in it is the answer. In that mode TrackIR uses active tracking using the LEDs on the Pro clip and looking for them rather than passive tracking looking for a reflection back from the cap clip from the LEDs on the camera. So in that mode there's nothing shining at me to reflect back at the camera. The software has a button to use either mode so it knows what to look for. I totally get how it works. Just gotta get the clip with the IR LEDs on it, that's all. Problem solved.
Del: it's not that bad. I really think I'm gonna like this once I get used to it. I'm not having any of the motion sickness or vertigo or whatever others have complained about. Years of not moving other than my thumb to look around is a habit that's gonna die hard. I'm gettin there. Gotta break the other habit of leaning in closer to the monitor when in a fight too. Almost got that one ironed out. Also the leaning in slightly to turn to look back is something that hasn't become a natural thing for me yet. But if ya think about it, if you were actually in the plane you'd have to do that to look back--so it should be. Gettin there.
Ya just gotta tweak the software to suit you and dude, it's friggin omni-adjustable. You can do whatever you want with it pretty much. You CAN actually set it 1:1 in the software if you like, but sheesh! I hope you have a good chiropractor on speed dial if you do! I'd never want to move my head that far back and forth and up and down playing AH for hours at a time like I do when I do. I can't imagine the neck pain that'd cause. On one hand, as godawful expensive as they are, I like the idea of the VR headsets but I gotta wonder what it'd do to your eyesight focusing on something that is in reality less than 6 inches from your eyeballs for hours at a time. I know it's a bit of optical trickery to produce what you're brain thinks you're actually seeing, but it is actually that close. Hell my eyes are bad enough and as I rapidly approach the 50 year mark having to use cheaters now for everything within a couple of feet is annoying the hell out of me!
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For me, the Track Clip Pro with the active infrared LEDs works much better than the simple clip with the passive reflectors.
However, that puppy is pretty fragile, so become familiar with the use of quick-set epoxy. Despite gentle handling, mine has broken twice: at the pivot where it joins the headset clip and at the pivot on the three-pronged piece holding the LEDs. To their credit, NaturalPoint sent me a free replacement when I posted about it on their support forum.
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What Bino said. I experienced some of the same problems when not wearing my glasses with trackir.
The track clip pro pretty much eliminated them. As Bino was saying, it is pretty fragile, so when I clipped it to my headset I also wrapped it with electricians tape in a few key spots in order to give it some structural support, and keep it from moving around as well. I haven't had a problem with it yet since doing that.
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I had actually considered building my own a while back, pre-my current PC. An alternate IR proggie called FreeTrack here: http://www.free-track.net/english/ (http://www.free-track.net/english/) . It even has a setup wizard for constructing the LED headset: http://www.free-track.net/english/hardware/calcled/ (http://www.free-track.net/english/hardware/calcled/) .My old PC wouldn't handle the load of the camera in addition to the game so I blew it off. Not a problem with my current box tho. I remember finding lots of instructions on the forums on building your own IR clip with stronger steel or aluminum wire as a frame and a basic electronic circuit for a power supply that plugged into a USB port made from off the shelf Radio Shack parts. Will maybe look into that too as I'd heard the LED clip was ultra fragile. Or could buy the TrackIR clip and beef it up with wire say from a coat hangar. They have 1001 uses yaknow. :D
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Oh heck yeah. Build your own. Check these!
http://www.free-track.net/english/hardware/point_model_gallery.php (http://www.free-track.net/english/hardware/point_model_gallery.php)
Got more ball caps than I know what to do with, prolly 10 Radio Shacks in a 10 mile radius, a soldering iron and heat shrink. I'm there.
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Would track IR work with this?:
(http://onlinemilitaria.com/images/M-450.jpg)
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I saw a bloke wearing something like that, but thats another story :old:
Those clips for caps are rubbish :old:
Trackclip Pro is the way to go, wearing a cap in the house is daft as welll :old:
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wearing a cap in the house is daft as welll :old:
[steal]I've read from a reliable source, that God created ball caps to tell idiots from up above in a glimpse. You know, he's got the all-seeing eye that can see through ceilings. :old:[/steal]
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Thanks for posting this Drano. I'm in the same boat optically and will probably pull the trigger on TrackIR in the near future. I figure it will at least allow me a better view of the missing pieces and pretty black and grey smoke coming from my ride. :airplane:
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The clip is fragile, in my experience I've left it as-is though. The typical bad thing that happens to my clip is my headset wire gets hooked by the dog and dragged off the table onto the floor. It detaches right at the mounting clip, but the plastic is flexible enough it's never broken for me. I just put the little plastic fingers back inside and continue using it.
I had considered gluing it, but I'm nearly positive if I did it would break the plastic, requiring an ever growing ball of glue on the side of my head.
Had mine for about 6 years now, still going strong.
Wiley.
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I had actually considered building my own a while back, pre-my current PC. An alternate IR proggie called FreeTrack here: http://www.free-track.net/english/ (http://www.free-track.net/english/) . It even has a setup wizard for constructing the LED headset: http://www.free-track.net/english/hardware/calcled/ (http://www.free-track.net/english/hardware/calcled/) .My old PC wouldn't handle the load of the camera in addition to the game so I blew it off. Not a problem with my current box tho. I remember finding lots of instructions on the forums on building your own IR clip with stronger steel or aluminum wire as a frame and a basic electronic circuit for a power supply that plugged into a USB port made from off the shelf Radio Shack parts. Will maybe look into that too as I'd heard the LED clip was ultra fragile. Or could buy the TrackIR clip and beef it up with wire say from a coat hangar. They have 1001 uses yaknow. :D
I built one and posted my thoughts here, http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,223422.msg2696856.html#msg2696856 I don't know if I have the pictures still. Will add them here if I find them
Found two of them, drawing of the rig...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/drawing_zps5910dae9.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/drawing_zps5910dae9.jpg.html)
and the rig it self....
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/rig_zps401d9d73.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/rig_zps401d9d73.jpg.html)
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Nice, Fugitive. If you want to lighten it up a bit, you can use a "Joule Thief" circuit and a single 1.5-volt AA battery. There's a post on the TrackIR forums about doing just that. Out of curiosity I soldered up a simple Joule Thief and with that got a single AA battery to light up a 12-volt filament bulb, so running 3 low-drain LEDs should be no problem. I have the 5-volt USB power cord for my Track Clip Pro velcroed onto the signal cable for my wired headset, and that works fine for me.
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As I said in the tutorial I built it to see if I liked it because I didn't want to spend the cash on TrackIR only to find out it made me sick or I didn't like it It worked well enough for me to test both of those worries and decide that it was fun.
I now own the TrackIR system (and have for a year or so) and love it except for the issues I had with aiming. I'm sure there are a number of ways to make it lighter as well as smaller, but for testing mine worked great. I encourage anyone thinking about TrackIR to go ahead and make one.
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I decided to build my own active IR setup. I snagged the parts from Radio Shack. Got 6 LEDs and a 5 pack of 15ohm resistors(I'll only need one). Gonna use one of my zillion old cell phone chargers for a power supply. They're all 5v. Got a little circuit board and enclosure for it. Everything cost me $22. So enough stuff to make a cap and headset. The single pro track clip would be $40 shipped.
Will be jammed up at work the next couple of weeks so I might not get to it right away. Will let ya know how it went.
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TrackIR 5 should be at my door Wednesday. :banana:
Thanks again for this thread. It reminded me I wanted TrackIR and made me $200 poorer. :confused:
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I wear glasses and have never had a problem with the track-clip. Works perfectly. Sometimes the sun will reflect off something behind me and cause a hotspot which causes problems, but that's just a matter of adjusting the blinds.
If you click on the camera settings, you will find you can adjust both the IR brightness and the filter threshold, which might help.
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I wear glasses and have never had a problem with the track-clip. Works perfectly. Sometimes the sun will reflect off something behind me and cause a hotspot which causes problems, but that's just a matter of adjusting the blinds.
If you click on the camera settings, you will find you can adjust both the IR brightness and the filter threshold, which might help.
Don't know if I miscommunicated. I'm currently using the passive ball cap clip--whatever that's called. I've tested it by looking at the software in camera mode which shows what the IR camera sees. It's definitely my glasses. When the extra spot comes up, I tried messing with the settings to tune it out, but that didn't work. The only thing that made the other spot go away--was covering the offending lense (affected when looking slightly either right or left). Might have something to do with the prescription. The face of my lenses are almost flat, so to the camera it might as well be a mirror. The good thing is, because of that, it only affects things in a very narrow area--but it's annoying as hell. It's definitely that. Perhaps the face of your lenses are more convex and therefore scatter the reflection and that's why you don't have a problem. That'd be my guess.
Will be stuffing myself at the all you can eat overtime buffet at work for the next week or so. When I get a chance I'm gonna put together an active IR LED ball cap with LEDs built into it and go that route. Gonna be a fun little project.
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Yeah, my apologies, I meant the ball-cap clip. You're right though, it's the flatness. My lenses do have curved fronts, so I did some testing with a flat transparent plastic surface, and the extra reflections were all over the camera. It might also be a factor that my lenses have an anti-reflection coating for greater light transmission, but I don't know how far into IR that works - and most transparent materials are 90% or better reflective in the IR spectrum.
Track-clip (the powered one) for you!