Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Latrobe on May 12, 2013, 05:59:30 AM
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While having a chat with some squaddies about why potential new members are not sticking with this game, one reason that came up was because they just are not getting as good as they had hoped as quickly as they would like. Let's face it, this game has a massive learning curve.
I know other flight sim games have tutorials on how to start the plane, how to takeoff, how to land, etc. How hard would it be to implament something like that to AHII, and how useful would it actually be? During the two week free trial there could be a pop up window that asks the player if they would like to take the tutorial (as well as having the option listed below the online and offline arena selections if they choose to go back to it later). The tutorial would cover all the basics of Fighters, Attackers, Bombers, and Vehicles.
For Fighters:
How to set up your views
Basic Controls setup (Gears, Flaps, Throttle, Fire the guns, etc) and how to set the up on your stick
What Auto Take off is and how to turn it off and on
How to manually take off
What Stall limiter is and how to turn it off and on
Basic Maneuvers (Rolls, Loops, Immelman, Split-s, Yo-yo's, etc)
Stalls and how to recover from them
For Attack Planes:
How to select the right load out for the right job
How much ord is needed to kill certain targets
How to select between different ordinace in flight
How to dive bomb
How to fire rockets
For Bombers:
How to jump to different guns and different planes
How to accept people to gun for your plane
How to use the bombsight
For Vehicles:
How to use the different tank sights (zoom and ranging)
How vehicle spawns work
What the difference between AP/HE/HVAP is
How to repair your tank/resupply your ammo
And then maybe a section for War related things like: How strats work, what the HQ does, how to resupply bases/strats/HQ, how to take bases, etc.
We have the offline arena and the training arena to practice, but if you don't know what you're doing then you're already at a lose. A tutorial would at least give you an idea of how to get off the ground, get in a fight, and (if you survive) land your plane. Then if you want to start learning some of the more advanced things in the game you can then schedule a session with a trainer and get right into it without having to be taught how to just get your plane in the air first.
The problem I can see is people just out right ignoring the tutorial. We already have many people who don't even make an account on the forums to ask for help in the help section. Maybe they read it as a guest, but we still have people who ignore the TA, jump into the MA, and start asking "How do I fly? How do I shoot?" which isn't bad if there's no one in the TA to help them, but these questions are sometimes met with less than appropriate answers which won't leave a good impression to that person of this game and the people who play it. If the player tries the tutorial then they wouldn't have to ask these questions, but that's only if they actually click the tutorial button and try it out.
Do you think a tutorial would be useful for new players? Do we need one, or is what we've got already good enough?
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IMHO it would help the newbs get up and running during the two week trial. I don't know the attrician rate for them but something like this would certainly reduce the percentage.
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I believe what we have is good. Most people jump on the game, forget about reading anything.
Does anyone read the Instructions that come with a game disk? Not many, I'm sure.
I believe it would be better to include within the 2 week Free Trial,
a mandatory "Basic" training time to give the new people an overview of the game & settings.
Maybe a briefing ( on screen or audible, or both) .
But then again, AH will always have some that will try it out,
find it's not like the Xbox Arcade thing they want, then quit. Regardless.
:cheers: Oz
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I wish there was something.
Todays players NEVER read instructions (I have two sons, I know) They jump right in and give it a go. If they have trouble the first thing they do is "Google" it to see what the chea.... err answer is :devil Those that like the game stick with it those that it doesn't grab leave. I don't think there is anything that will change that.
For those that stay getting help is a problem. The trainers are great, but they are few and timing is an issue most times. Then when you get one you can't just roll in and say "make me the best fighter jock in the mains!" It just doesn't work that way. If there was a set program like to learn basic maneuvers see so-and-so at such-and-such a time for the class, you might get more people to show. I know that when they hold a "clinic" they seem to get a good crowd.
Maybe an enterprising group of people could get together and run a class, maybe for a small fee per player to cover the time these guys put in. An "Aces Academy" type thing. Make it like a real school with a teaching plan, an out line, practice (home work), maybe even a test secession to check progress and instill some confidence. A good use of a custom arena I would think. I don't think HTC should/could take the time to build/add on a training portion to the game.
Teaching people how to play use to be the squads duty. Unfortunately todays squads are more about getting as many people together as they can to roll base after base.
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Great idea! I would have loved something like that. :rock
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instructions? tutorial? ive been playing 6 years and never seen that! i just jumped in and started the engine and said everyone sucked for face shooting me!! :D
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Training Arena and the Training Corps
:salute
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People can't read instructions and guides anymore. What AH needs is a hands-on, (off-line?) interactive tutorial like many other games have. This is what a new player expect, because this is what he gets in nearly every other game. This means short "missions" with text+voice instructions that advance stage by stage when the players successfully performs as required.
AH already has some of the required tools, but I suppose a lot more work will be required by HTC to make this happen. Apart from the voice acting it will also require some method of indicating things in the cockpit or outside in the world, like a bright/flashing arrow that points to the instrument or object being talked about.
When a player finishes each of the "courses" throw him a bone and a pat on the back to make him feel good - like some perks and an "achievement" awarded.
And now the kicker:
If HTC provides the tools to do it, they do not even need to create the content. I am sure plenty of players will create fully detailed courses for new players, just like they create skins, maps and youtube vids.
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idk some videos on youtube when they google would help....oh wait.
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Vudu you have some of the best stuff out there. Trouble is, most noobs don't know it's there so they wouldn't even think to Google it. Just sayen'
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Back when I started flying in 2006(was like 14) I was scorned by you old farts. Not many wanted to help so I spent hours reading the help and training page. And I your competent one shod be able to use said tips.
Just takes practice. Guess I'm different from this new generation of players :joystick:
on a side not I even printed out all the aircraft and GV pages :banana:
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I've recently been sorting through everything I own preparing to move and I ran across several three ring binders. One of them had the entire instuction manual for AW and the another had the entire instruction manual for AH, all neatly categorized and tabbed with pages printed in color. Each also contained all the relevant information on each plane in the game.
Since going to the wiki and trainers sites I don't think the capability to do something like that even exists anymore. Without doing that I doubt I'd have stuck around. In the beginning those binders were always readily available to me and I clearly remember reading them on climbout.
BTW, the AW manual even had a section on BCM.
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as an old fart coming back after 10yrs, I knew what I was in for.. a very steep learning curve.. & a lot of frustration.. just tryin to get up to speed with everyone else to @ least be able to put up a fight & not be food for the vets scores..
sadly I'm not there yet.. ('Yet' being the keyword..)
would a tutorial decreased the 'learning curve' ??
Maybe.. but only to a point.. How detailed is this thing gonna be ??
you could have a 5 part tutorial takeoff, landing, CV Ops, Buffs, GV's ... or 172 parts on the corner speeds of the various planes as well as best climb speeds, yadda yadda..
would I have watched them or flown them ??
Yeah..
would it have helped in the long run ??
Who's to say.. it depends on the info in the tutorial..
IMHO, something offline would've been helpful.. maybe like sink a CV, or deack a field, or 5 drones in one flight..
I wouldn't make these mandatory though.. but it would've been nice to have..
it also be a good way to introduce noobs to the other arenas like AVA or DA or WWI..
just my $.02..
W-W
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I think there are two different things lumped under learning curve. The most challenging learning curve is the SA,ACM,Gunnery learning curve. The other is the unnecessarily hard to locate minutia absorption curve. I think a permalink to some SHORT tutorials from YouTube would be worth a thousand words in text but what I would really like to see is an indexed manual so you could look uo at a glance things like .commands, bombs to destroy hangar, where the map room is. Etc. some printer friendly info like maps, down time and ord required etc.
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Do you think a tutorial would be useful for new players? Do we need one, or is what we've got already good enough?
Yes, however, after 12 years here I doubt HTC will invest in such an idea.
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Yes, however, after 12 years here I doubt HTC will invest in such an idea.
It probably would be a big project for HTC. I was just thinking a kind of "official" training/tutorial thing that pops right up in the players face where there is no doubt they will see it would be useful for the people who just download the game and jump right in.
We still do have awesome people like Vudu doing the tutorial stuff already. We just need an easier way for the new players to find them. A sticky thread of them would be nice. Maybe one of those "Did you Know?" messages on load up can read "Did you know, Vudu15 makes tutorial videos on YouTube! Check them out!"
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that would be good.
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I'd say make a tutorial ingame or go to DA lake thats where I got help to learn how to fly my pony still mediocore in it after 5 years though lol plus i've found I have a nack for them High ENY planes such as the 109E-4 and P40Cs and P39Ds or Qs
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Hammer's http://www.netaces.org/ should be your bible.
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Hammer's http://www.netaces.org/ should be your bible.
Yes and the trainers site has a lot of the information players are looking for. There's even a direct link on the clipboard map but the issue isn't so much that the informations isn't there it's more like not enough players bother to read it.
I agree it needs to be easier to find and maybe should be mostly video type of information,however I don't have the skill sets to do so. Now there's nothing stopping others from doing so,Vudu15 has done plenty on his own and has had great results from it so if anyone would like to make a video or submit an article please be my guest.
It would be best if it is submitted to the trainers to check for correct information etc. but other than that please feel free to offer up any help you'd like.
:salute
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The typical player who makes it as far as this forum, creating an account and wading in, is the same player type who will read the manual from cover to cover. Might go to the DA to duel but, keep throwing himself at you and this game until he can beat you or become friends with you out of respect. Or your lifelong enemy because you need someone to shoot at in a shooting game. And you gents are a minority who pretty much interact with only yourselves, since you are the demographic who will probably stick around for a long time because you are motivated to develop "yourself" against the crucible of the game.
Who is the player that never comes to this forum. Never reads the manual. Never goes to the DA unless to HO in a Tempest at the lake. And drives you nuts on range asking how to do the simplest things while playing the game in the dweebiest chicken guano manner possible to survive above everything else? And is very likely to get bored or frustrated and leave unless fortunate enough to find friends to keep returning to play with?
You keep defining this game around your selves and assuming your desires and motivations in others while trying to come up with strategies to keep them engaged in this game. Problem being, your strategies will work on yourselves but, bore them to tears. They are not you, never will be you. And don't seek from this game what you seek. Nor hold any sacred value to the principles you conduct your selves with in this game.
Consider the complaints that Hitech has allowed the game to slip into arcadishness over the years to keep up subscriptions. Aside from the dweebiesh game play inherit in this demographic. What really keeps them coming back over the long haul?
Friends and the feeling they belong to something. Once they achieve that, they will learn from their friends like little sponges because they have a reason to learn. The vTards were the perfect example for this. Someone picked up new players giving them something to be part of regardless of their skills. Then led them to victories they could be proud of as a group of friends.
The individualist has no problem finding anything he needs to play the game or producing learning aids to help others. The other demographic is not looking for learning aids or helping hands. He's looking to be a member of a group that accepts him. Then he's ready to learn.
Know your target audience when you are selling cars before you waste the marketing budget.
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bustr -- well writ!
Everyone plays the game for their own reason(s), and each and every one of us has our own bias WRT the game.
Me, I want to understand every aspect of playing it and I DON'T want to understand the coding ... but being that I am closer to 100 years of age than 1 , it seems doubtful that I'll reach that goal.
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To specifically address the original Latrobe question: "How useful would an offline tutorial be?"
I'm quite certain it would be value added.
My only concern would be accuracy. I see a LOT of written and video material which is well-meant, but technically wrong.
Technical review (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread) would be my only concern before anything was linked to the official website (then again this is HTC's call, not mine).
-Rodent57
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Rodent, you're a trainer now? Next thing ya know...they'll draft Silat :devil
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Indeed, Bustr, well written. I don't know what it is like to be a guy who finds AH on his own and signs up.
When AW folded, our squad came over. We learned in the TA.
Then after that, a looooong time passed before I became very proficient at bombing and jabo'ing.
What keeps me interested in AH are the buds I've made and kept over the last 11 years.
AW had a good thing with their "Training Nights." You'd log in and a trainer would spend an hour with 4 to 6 guys.
Then also, in various squads, we had training nights as well. Learned lots.
Didn't happen solo for me. Bet that would be frustrating.
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Shaw's "Fighter Combat and Tactics" combined with squad/dueling/trainer work should be all that is needed. However, the idea Latrobe has certainly couldn't hurt. Wish I could help with it but alas, I'm more in need of such a thing more than I could contribute.
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Rodent, you're a trainer now? Next thing ya know...they'll draft Silat :devil
well Max, Sir! Silat is already drafted as a trainer now....... he just can't help it that he can not get out of his P-38 because his high heel stilletos keep hanging up on his rudder pedals..... so if any of you see him out on the flight line..... please go give himher a hand please...... so heshe may get out of that P38 and make it to the o'club so he can read and post on the boards......
it has gotten to be terrible sitting in that cockpit all this time...... sheesh
:devil :bolt:
cheers
TC
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Rodent, you're a trainer now? Next thing ya know...they'll draft Silat :devil
Max,
:old:You get old enough and people take pity ;)
PS Couple of years actually
PPS TC That's why we make piddle packs for both genders :cheers:
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What keeps me interested in AH are the buds I've made and kept over the last 11 years.
AW had a good thing with their "Training Nights." You'd log in and a trainer would spend an hour with 4 to 6 guys.
Then also, in various squads, we had training nights as well. Learned lots.
nice post, Hap!
ever since I was asked to join the AH Trainers here..... it has always been my interest and request to implement a similar type of "Scheduled Informal Training Nights" , here for the Aces high Community!
I feel like it would greatly help the Aces high community, it would bring forth better game play and better air combat ( as well as entire arena combat regardless if it is aircraft, GVs, ships, etc..... ), and the extended benifits of doing so would those who learn and train together in this format, form close knit relationships/friendships and these type of friendships is what builds a stronger community......
The Aces high Community has to want this though........ if the demand is not there, then it more than likely will never happen.....
but one can always keep hoping, I know I will! I know how well it works and how much of a benefit it would be for this community!
~S~
TC ( Johnny )
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...
To specifically address the original Latrobe question: "How useful would an offline tutorial be?"
I'm quite certain it would be value added.
My only concern would be accuracy. I see a LOT of written and video material which is well-meant, but technically wrong.
Technical review (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread) would be my only concern before anything was linked to the official website
-Rodent57
I agree with Rodent57's thoughts on this subject!
:aok
TC
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This game is very easy to learn how to get out of the hanger and shooting at something. The more information heavy and visually loaded a tutorial or interactive help page becomes the better. By all means load em up.
If you are seeking the answer to keeping a new younger demographic interested in the game. You are dealing with a generation that first wants to feel accepted and part of something. Then you won't be able to satisfy their hunger for game knowledge.
It may appear a bit touchy feely. But, the rewards are well worth the effort once they feel a part of our community. They are every bit our equals in learning anything that "interests" them. Different generation, different motivation. Think about the achievements and who introducing that matters to. I couldn't care less. The only achievement I purposely went for was the 3sec air time in a jeep. My squad all drove off the same cliff at the same time to see what would happen for grins and giggles.
Too bad the Trainers don't have something like a training wheels squad open to only new subscribers and two weekers. The squad exists for only 1-2 tours then everyone is booted out with a diploma. During that time the Trainer is the CO and chief brain trust for the members until he graduates them. Or holds a draft to established squads who hopefully have been watching the newbies and making friends with them. Or they take their collective diplomas and start a new squad to stay together.
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This game is very easy to learn how to get out of the hanger and shooting at something. The more information heavy and visually loaded a tutorial or interactive help page becomes the better. By all means load em up.
If you are seeking the answer to keeping a new younger demographic interested in the game. You are dealing with a generation that first wants to feel accepted and part of something. Then you won't be able to satisfy their hunger for game knowledge.
It may appear a bit touchy feely. But, the rewards are well worth the effort once they feel a part of our community. They are every bit our equals in learning anything that "interests" them. Different generation, different motivation. Think about the achievements and who introducing that matters to. I couldn't care less. The only achievement I purposely went for was the 3sec air time in a jeep. My squad all drove off the same cliff at the same time to see what would happen for grins and giggles.
Too bad the Trainers don't have something like a training wheels squad open to only new subscribers and two weekers. The squad exists for only 1-2 tours then everyone is booted out with a diploma. During that time the Trainer is the CO and chief brain trust for the members until he graduates them. Or holds a draft to established squads who hopefully have been watching the newbies and making friends with them. Or they take their collective diplomas and start a new squad to stay together.
:aok
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I believe what we have is good. Most people jump on the game, forget about reading anything.
Does anyone read the Instructions that come with a game disk? Not many, I'm sure.
I believe it would be better to include within the 2 week Free Trial,
a mandatory "Basic" training time to give the new people an overview of the game & settings.
Maybe a briefing ( on screen or audible, or both) .
But then again, AH will always have some that will try it out,
find it's not like the Xbox Arcade thing they want, then quit. Regardless.
:cheers: Oz
mandatory "Basic" training time
I played once, one day, while on trial...I got busy...although I played 10 years ago...I have forgotten a lot of stuff. It should be "GAME TIME IN HOURS" and not 30 days, so one can get acclimated.
There is nowhere to find basic stuff about the game play anymore. Not even on the official site. This is an awfully expensive fly n die sim. :P
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There is nowhere to find basic stuff about the game play anymore. Not even on the official site. This is an awfully expensive fly n die sim. :P
Actually if you look under the header"game info" you will find a link to "need help".
This will take you to the trainers site and most the information you might need.
:salute