Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: BoilerDown on June 01, 2013, 01:59:45 PM
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Intel is officially introducing their newest CPU lineup, codename "Haswell". Its the successor to Sandy and Ivy Bridge, and uses a new socket LGA-1150, instead of the old LGA-1155. This means they require new motherboards, not a drop-in replacement like Ivy was to Sandy.
The reviews are hitting the internet, the best one IMO is at the [H]:
http://hardocp.com/article/2013/06/01/intel_haswell_i74770k_ipc_overclocking_review
Here's another one at a review site I respect quite a bit:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested
TLDR: This is a minor, incremental upgrade to CPU speed over Ivy or Sandy Bridge. At stock speeds, you might see a 20% increase over Sandy Bridge, if you overclock, statistically less (highly variable based on your luck before and after though).
If you're using anything older than Sandy Bridge (discounting AMD options of course), then you have a good opportunity to upgrade. But you're nearly as well off upgrading to a Sandy Bridge bought second hand as you are upgrading to Haswell. I imaging the usual places will be flooded with used Sandy Bridge CPUs that can be had for cheap.
As for me, I'm getting a Haswell. But only because I want to upgrade my secondary computer. My "old" but still awesome Sandy Bridge i7 2600k was a relatively poor overclocker at 4.3, so I stand to improve my luck with Haswell, and I'll just relegate it to my secondary PC. Haswell will be my new primary, and my current secondary will be demoted to HTPC or just sold off. If I was just keeping one computer, I would skip this round just as I skipped Ivy Bridge.
By the way, I found the old Sandy Bridge thread on these forums, which is worth a laugh. I think what I said back then about them turned out to be pretty spot on, compared to most: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,303523.0.html .
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Looks nice but I think I'll stick with my i5-2500k @ 4.8Ghz for a while
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I might be in the market for a used i7 Sandy Bridge to replace my i7-2600K BUT I am only going to look at the big steps up in L2 cache compared to what I have now.
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From those reviews it looks like I made the right decision to go w/ the SB-E/X79 set up for longevity.
Think I'll pass on the current iteration of Haswell....................
Hmmm, may see a Haswell CPU for 2011 socket?
:D
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Haswell is simply a method of recovering development expenses the way I look at it. At this point I would wait and see which way the socket options go in further developments.
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From those reviews it looks like I made the right decision to go w/ the SB-E/X79 set up for longevity.
Think I'll pass on the current iteration of Haswell....................
Hmmm, may see a Haswell CPU for 2011 socket?
Well Ivy-E is the next one up. Should be out before the end of the year, rumor mill says end Q3 or beginning of Q4. After that who knows? 2011 is getting long in the tooth.
I haven't gotten one because they haven't been single-core fastest, and that's what still counts in games. A lot of people think games will use more cores now that the two new big consoles have been announced with 8 cores each, but I think programmers will take a long time to figure out how to make games use more than a few threads at a time. Future-proofing in this case is IMO a foolish waste of money, and will actually result in slower performance until it happens, if it does.
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My 3570k at 4.7ghz is fine with me..Haswell is great if you want a integrated cpu but i have two 7950s lol.. :aok
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I hate that they change sockets with every release.
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I hate that they change sockets with every release.
Ya its total bs..
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Still, if anyone gets the new EVGA Z87 board with the Creative Sound Core3D chip I would like to hear about your experience.
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I hate that they change sockets with every release.
Agreed. That's quite ridiculous.
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I hate that they change sockets with every release.
Not true at all. Ivy went into the same "socket" as Sandy, and the extreme CPUs will be on the same socket for at least one more generation. Historically some sockets have lasted a very long time, 775 is a good example. I don't have a problem with them updating sockets when they need to obsolete old motherboards with outdated features. The move to PCIe 3.0 and more SATA 3 and USB 3 could be the reason for the latest change. They don't want people to see their CPUs being bottlenecked by old technology motherboards and then blaming Intel for it being slow.
That said, I'll agree that the updates on this generation aren't that important and they could have stuck with the same LGA this time. They could have waited until DDR4 to update LGAs (i.e. sockets). Oh well, I wouldn't make this update without a new motherboard anyways.
Still, if anyone gets the new EVGA Z87 board with the Creative Sound Core3D chip I would like to hear about your experience.
I was thinking about the Gigabyte Sniper 5 with that chip, but since I never run more than 1 GPU, I don't want to be slowed by the PCIe bridge chip. I've also heard that EVGA motherboards are pretty bad. Waiting for the [H]'s and whoever else's motherboard reviews today and then I'll probably make a decision. Historically I've always gone Asus, but this time I'm broadening my search, not that Asus did anything wrong mind you.
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I hate that they change sockets with every release.
they didn't change sockets from sandy bridge to ivy bridge...just didn't release a socket 2011 ivy bridge cpu.
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just didn't release a socket 2011 ivy bridge cpu.
They will, it'll be out later this year.
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I've also heard that EVGA motherboards are pretty bad.
I don't know what you mean by 'bad.' The only things I have seen published are early reviews which are based on nothing other than advertising photos. I don't believe anyone has had hands on yet. Still, if you have a source for an actual published review I'm willing to read it!
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I don't know what you mean by 'bad.' The only things I have seen published are early reviews which are based on nothing other than advertising photos. I don't believe anyone has had hands on yet. Still, if you have a source for an actual published review I'm willing to read it!
I'm not referring to Haswell motherboards by EVGA, but their reputation from their past motherboard efforts. For example, I just did a Google search for "evga motherboards", and the top-most hit that is neither from www.evga.com nor a re-print of a press release, happens to be a listing at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188065
Not exactly inspiring customer comments.
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I personally would never buy a EVGA mobo..
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I personally would never buy a EVGA mobo..
a lot of people seem to have problems with them, especially the first gen's. i bought 2 evga mobos socket 478 and socket 775, and never had a single issue. and the guy i share my office with just got his socket 775 mobo swapped out for a brand new socket 1155 z77 mobo under a lifetime warranty, that was 5 years after the original purchase (and it blew because of something he did).
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I'm not referring to Haswell motherboards by EVGA, but their reputation from their past motherboard efforts. For example, I just did a Google search for "evga motherboards", and the top-most hit that is neither from www.evga.com nor a re-print of a press release, happens to be a listing at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188065
Not exactly inspiring customer comments.
I think what you guys are confusing with hardware efficiency is customer loyalty. Many people buy EVGA and continue to buy EVGA. It's also human nature to complain at the slightest fault, and always blame the hardware even when it was the user that caused the problem. My experience goes opposite to everything you have stated. When I order ASUS I have to go through three boards to find one good one. Yet, every EVGA board I buy is superb! Gigabyte has been problematic as well, so I stick to what works, yet I know there is one company that puts all of these boards together for the parent companies. Literally, they are all made in the same building. So, for me it isn't that I am particularly loyal to EVGA, but that I have seen a higher rate of success when I order boards with that label.
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I think what you guys are confusing with hardware efficiency is customer loyalty. Many people buy EVGA and continue to buy EVGA. It's also human nature to complain at the slightest fault, and always blame the hardware even when it was the user that caused the problem. My experience goes opposite to everything you have stated. When I order ASUS I have to go through three boards to find one good one. Yet, every EVGA board I buy is superb! Gigabyte has been problematic as well, so I stick to what works, yet I know there is one company that puts all of these boards together for the parent companies. Literally, they are all made in the same building. So, for me it isn't that I am particularly loyal to EVGA, but that I have seen a higher rate of success when I order boards with that label.
I have been through 2 Asus and 1 Gigabyte board in the last 8 years and never has any issues...My Z77 Sabertooth now is an amazing board.. :)
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I've got an Evga 780i LGA 775 mobo and it's been great... once the early BIOS bugs were worked out.
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It looks like besides the Gigabyte Sniper 5 and M5, and the EVGA ones, some of the ASRock motherboards have the Creative Sound Core3D sound chips on them: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty%20Z87%20Professional/index.us.asp . But that's all I could find.
But I think I'm going to go with the Asus Maximus VI Hero. Its actually (going to be) less expensive than a lot of other Haswell MBs I'm considering, should overclock like a beast, and doesn't include a lot of features I don't want, like the PCIe bridge or wireless nic.
Downside? They don't even arrive in the States until later this week, won't be available for sale for another week or so beyond that.
If I can't wait I'll probably just say screw it and get the middle-of-the-road Asus Z87 Plus.
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It looks like besides the Gigabyte Sniper 5 and M5, and the EVGA ones, some of the ASRock motherboards have the Creative Sound Core3D sound chips on them: http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty%20Z87%20Professional/index.us.asp . But that's all I could find.
But I think I'm going to go with the Asus Maximus VI Hero. Its actually (going to be) less expensive than a lot of other Haswell MBs I'm considering, should overclock like a beast, and doesn't include a lot of features I don't want, like the PCIe bridge or wireless nic.
Downside? They don't even arrive in the States until later this week, won't be available for sale for another week or so beyond that.
If I can't wait I'll probably just say screw it and get the middle-of-the-road Asus Z87 Plus.
Get the Z87 Sabertooth...
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I found the Asus Maximus VI Hero in stock finally Friday afternoon, got it and a 4770k ordered up.
The early results on Haswell is that Intel really cheaped out on the thermal compound between the CPU die and the heat spreader. Possibly even worse than for Ivy Bridge. De-lidding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXs0I5kuoX4) is necessary for most people to reach beyond 4.2 GHz, even with water cooling. So I'll probably go stock for a day, OC for a couple weeks, then delid a CPU for the first time ever. Should be... interesting.
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I found the Asus Maximus VI Hero in stock finally Friday afternoon, got it and a 4770k ordered up.
The early results on Haswell is that Intel really cheaped out on the thermal compound between the CPU die and the heat spreader. Possibly even worse than for Ivy Bridge. De-lidding (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXs0I5kuoX4) is necessary for most people to reach beyond 4.2 GHz, even with water cooling. So I'll probably go stock for a day, OC for a couple weeks, then delid a CPU for the first time ever. Should be... interesting.
Interesting... I read here (http://www.overclock.net/t/1397672/deliding-a-4770k-haswell-improving-temperatures-and-maximizing-overclockablity/250) that the problem is not the thermal paste, but rather the adhesive that secures the lid. To account for manufacturing tolerances, Intel uses a bit too much adhesive, which places the lid a bit too far away from the actual chip, which in turn requires a layer of thermal paste that is a bit too thick. Confirmed, plausible, or busted?
Anyway, over the weekend I ordered a 4770K, an ASUS Z87-Pro mobo, and a Corsair H80i all-in-one water cooling unit. All hands, brace for impact!
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Just Delid your chip..As we had to do on our Ivy Brides to get a high OC..The paste intel uses is like cement..
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Right now I have my i7-4770K running at stock speed - 3.5GHz - until the thermal compound (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm) under the heatsink cures. The liquid-cooling unit (http://www.corsair.com/us/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h80i-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html) does a very nice job. As a quick test to get a baseline, I ran prime95 (http://www.mersenne.org/) for about an hour while I had the push/pull fans on the radiator cranked up to top speed. The CPU temp never went over 55 C, far short of the 72 C that Intel lists on the i7-4770K data sheet (http://ark.intel.com/products/75123/Intel-Core-i7-4770K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz).
I re-used most of my old machine. Here's the updated parts list: kenshelby.us/docs/pc-parts.htm (http://kenshelby.us/docs/pc-parts.htm)