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General Forums => Achievement System => Topic started by: Franz Von Werra on June 10, 2013, 04:59:32 AM

Title: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Franz Von Werra on June 10, 2013, 04:59:32 AM
Redtails movie by George Lucas

end of movie scene: (I couldn't find it on youtube, goes something like this)
'1st-P51' is getting chased by a 262.
'2nd-P51' says something on radio to get 1st to move, then 2nd does a ho at the 262 in attempt to clear the 1st.
262 explodes, but the 2nd-p51 only gets hit by what seems like small machine gun fire... 2nd-p51 pilot gets a couple of red spots on him... flys off and dies.

It was supposed to be the opposite! p51's 50cal mg's make 1/2 inch holes... taters make explosions!  :headscratch:

Win a HO attack vs a 262 and get "the George Lucas Lie" achievement! Put a picture of Lucas's face!
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Citabria on June 10, 2013, 05:32:08 AM
no
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: ink on June 10, 2013, 08:40:40 AM
no

cmon that would be funny as heck..... :rofl
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: alpini13 on June 11, 2013, 01:38:11 AM
redtails?  wernt they 3 squadrons stong and never produced an ace(5 kills) for the entire war? :rofl
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Franz Von Werra on June 12, 2013, 01:43:54 AM
Mein Gott, das ist nicht about the pilots, this is about the director, George Lucas, portraying the me262's four 30mm cannons firing bb gun amo instead of more realistical hand-gernade amo!  The p51 pilot looks to have only tiny paint-ball spots for wounds. If each was a tater hit... Lucas LIED!
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Zacherof on June 12, 2013, 01:50:19 AM
Well there are lots of inconsitancies in Red-tails. The first being Walter white isn't a general, he makes meth! :banana:

And that last scene is what made me really dislike the movie.  :furious

Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: gyrene81 on June 12, 2013, 05:46:14 AM
Mein Gott, das ist nicht about the pilots, this is about the director, George Lucas, portraying the me262's four 30mm cannons firing bb gun amo instead of more realistical hand-gernade amo!  The p51 pilot looks to have only tiny paint-ball spots for wounds. If each was a tater hit... Lucas LIED!
don't suppose you've heard of shrapnel wounds...the non-armor piercing 30mm mk108 had a thin outer shell. they were designed to explode on impact, blow a hole in the airplane skin and throw shrapnel around. an engine compartment hit as was depicted would do pretty much what was seen depending on where in the engine compartment the hit occurred, could have been less, could have been more. a direct hit into the cockpit would have done more damage to the pilot but considering the amount of armor those planes had, a shell would have to explode inside the compartment to cause the amount of gore you expected.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: mbailey on June 12, 2013, 06:03:32 AM
cmon that would be funny as heck..... :rofl
:rofl
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Franz Von Werra on June 12, 2013, 11:50:16 AM
gyrene81... try and insult, using fallacies, and flamebait, violating roc all day long... I report everytime now and the mods do nothing - so far.

I don't care what your education is. I don't care what your titles are. I don't care what you've done, or what you will do in the future. YOU COULD NEVER TELL ME CRAP on any topic.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: LCADolby on June 12, 2013, 01:35:51 PM
I'd love this as an achievement, RedTail's portrayal of the 30mm is pure pants.  :rofl
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Arlo on June 12, 2013, 09:20:35 PM
gyrene81... try and insult, using fallacies, and flamebait, violating roc all day long... I report everytime now and the mods do nothing - so far.

I don't care what your education is. I don't care what your titles are. I don't care what you've done, or what you will do in the future. YOU COULD NEVER TELL ME CRAP on any topic.

What a bizarre and ironic response.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: gyrene81 on June 12, 2013, 09:22:29 PM
What a bizarre and ironic response.
:rofl   :rofl   :rofl   :lol
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Shifty on June 12, 2013, 10:03:26 PM
redtails?  wernt they 3 squadrons stong and never produced an ace(5 kills) for the entire war? :rofl

Yeah they fought and died so 70 years later spoiled teenagers who can't spell weren't or strong could belittle them while living under the security they paid for in blood.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Karnak on June 13, 2013, 12:43:15 AM
The 30mm used blast force to blow the structure apart, not shrapnel.  The Hispano was more of a shrapnel thrower, but even then it would do substantial damage with blast force.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXh4Q5jwg78
If the 20mm Hispano does that, imagine what a 30mm mine shell does....
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Slash27 on June 25, 2013, 05:36:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLLDi-M3fk

30mm vs Spitfire.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Zacherof on June 26, 2013, 04:40:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoLLDi-M3fk

30mm vs Spitfire.
:Owow that's pretty deatructive
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Ten60 on June 26, 2013, 09:08:28 PM
Yeah they fought and died so 70 years later spoiled teenagers who can't spell weren't or strong could belittle them while living under the security they paid for in blood.  :rolleyes:

+10
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: alpini13 on June 28, 2013, 02:22:06 PM
i think we should  give credit..where credit is due....not to those who want credit simply because of their skin color or religious views. that being said the redtails officially have 112 enemy aircraft destroyed in the air, another 150 on the ground...thats total , for all 992 redtail pilots combined for the entire war.     there are many luftwaffe pilots that have exceed those totals....all by themselves   and i dont see any movies being made about them,lol.   also officailly via unit citations,in all the escort missions,they lost 25 bombers...not 0. i guess since usa has a black history month,a black tv network(bet) and black miss america pageant,they also have to find a way to emulate the redtails squadron because of their skin color.   the redtails were a brave group of men that put it all on the line for their country,heritage and freedom of themselvs and others...sometimes they would even die for it.i salute them<S>...but the same goes  FOR ALL COMBATANTS OF ALL COUNTRIES THAT HAVE EVER FOUGHT FOR FREEDOM OR COUNTRY because their country asked them to ,and that would include germany,italy,japan and all other axis and allied countries involved in ww2 and all peoples around the world throughout all of history.i salute them as well<S>
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Shifty on June 28, 2013, 08:56:51 PM
i think we should  give credit..where credit is due....not to those who want credit simply because of their skin color or religious views. that being said the redtails officially have 112 enemy aircraft destroyed in the air, another 150 on the ground...thats total , for all 992 redtail pilots combined for the entire war.     there are many luftwaffe pilots that have exceed those totals....all by themselves   and i dont see any movies being made about them,lol.   also officailly via unit citations,in all the escort missions,they lost 25 bombers...not 0. i guess since usa has a black history month,a black tv network(bet) and black miss america pageant,they also have to find a way to emulate the redtails squadron because of their skin color.   the redtails were a brave group of men that put it all on the line for their country,heritage and freedom of themselvs and others...sometimes they would even die for it.i salute them<S>...but the same goes  FOR ALL COMBATANTS OF ALL COUNTRIES THAT HAVE EVER FOUGHT FOR FREEDOM OR COUNTRY because their country asked them to ,and that would include germany,italy,japan and all other axis and allied countries involved in ww2 and all peoples around the world throughout all of history.i salute them as well<S>

Ahh so the Red Tails don't fit into your Tuetonic wet dream and it bothers you. Very true there were many Luftwaffe pilots that had more kills than the whole 332nd FG. That is not uncommon for Luftwaffe fighter pilots though. There are also Luftwaffe pilots that had more air to air kills than other USAAF FGs. Hartmann Galland Baer Knoke Wick Moelders Nowotny are names I can pull from memory immediately. Quick name seven 332nd pilots off the top of your head,, Name four, name two.. Can't do it can you? Neither can I. So evidently your German heroes have been given more fame adoration and hero worship than the Tuskegee Airmen. Don't look for a Hollywood movie about the Luftwaffe aces. Like it or not they fought for a country that was hell bent domination of the entire continent and its people. They fought for a country that committed genocide. Don't kid yourself they were not freedom fighters, not by a long shot. They fought for the country that started the war. You can salute them all you want, but you're a very confused young man saluting them and disparaging men who actually fought for the freedom you enjoy today. Not to mention they were Americans that were treated as second class citizens like the Japanese American Soldiers. They had to jump through hoops you cannot imagine for the privilege of putting their life on the line. Now you're going to whine about a Black Miss America contest and toss a salute towards Hienz Knoke an unapologetic Nazi? 
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: LCADolby on June 28, 2013, 09:32:21 PM
Quick name seven 332nd pilots off the top of your head,, Name four, name two.. Can't do it can you? Neither can I.

Lightning... Easy... Maurice... Deke...

*tongue in cheek*
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Shifty on June 28, 2013, 11:13:36 PM
Lightning... Easy... Maurice... Deke...

*tongue in cheek*

:lol
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Franz Von Werra on July 02, 2013, 12:05:51 PM
USA was 23% German-American during ww2.
USA armed forces were about 25% German-Americans.
I've met USA service people that don't even know this fact, conspiracy?

Lets see: "May old acquaintance be forgot, keep your eye on the grand ole flag!"
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America.

Example: the p-51 mustang was designed by:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Schmued
A Germany born American citizen.

It's easy to be a different race, religion, or nation, and say "fought for USA."
Its easy to fight AS AN AMERICAN vs an enemy of your OLD COUNTRY (or religion or race) also.
ITS NOT SO EASY TO FIGHT YOUR OWN OLD COUNTRY (or religion or race).
This said, most of the participant countries in ww2 were European - whites, killing each other wholesale.

OBSERVE CONSPIRACY IN ACTION:
Today: German-Americans are 18% of USA (2000 USA Census) and still the largest ethnic group in USA today.
Observe the attack at Wikipedia.com, this was recently changed, it did say 18% but now says 12%.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_Census
See where it lists Hispanics as top - at 13%
Under that it lists Germans as second with 12%, at 35 million.
Next to the German entry it shows 'German American' link, click that and see 18% at 50 million.

Conspiracy, yes! even Wikipedia is infected...

On this topic:
Japanese-Americans during ww2, just about all of 127,000 Japanese-Americans (80,000 of those were born here), all were locked up here in USA.
About 10,000 German-Americans were locked up also, NOT ALL OF THEM, only NOT TRUSTED ones.
Many years later:
German Americans DID NOT GET REPARATIONS that the Japanese Americans DID!!!
"The U.S. government eventually disbursed more than $1.6 billion in reparations to Japanese Americans who had been interned and their heirs."
Not sure with all this, because every so many years, it seems more money is requested and then given.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_internment

Today everyone seems to fight with votes and propaganda, for their own race, religion, old country nationality. :/

Check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_Census
doesn't even list the population by old country nationalism? I'm fed up and outa this thread... for now.

And shifty, you seem to have ZERO information about the causes of ww2 OR YOU ARE CHOSING TO IGNOR the causes of ww2.  Which is it? both or neither lol?
Sooo naaaw, no bias on your part!  :lol

LUCAS LIED, is the achievement!
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Arlo on July 02, 2013, 12:32:01 PM
USA was 23% German-American during ww2.
USA armed forces were about 25% German-Americans.
I've met USA service people that don't even know this fact, conspiracy?

Um, because being ignorant of U.S. census demographic details of 1940 would require one?  :huh

I mean, seriously, did you also ask how many women answered they were married more than once
in the 1940 census and receive a look other than you're a bit off tilt?

http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/cb12-ffse01.html
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Tank-Ace on July 02, 2013, 12:48:59 PM
don't suppose you've heard of shrapnel wounds...the non-armor piercing 30mm mk108 had a thin outer shell. they were designed to explode on impact, blow a hole in the airplane skin and throw shrapnel around. an engine compartment hit as was depicted would do pretty much what was seen depending on where in the engine compartment the hit occurred, could have been less, could have been more. a direct hit into the cockpit would have done more damage to the pilot but considering the amount of armor those planes had, a shell would have to explode inside the compartment to cause the amount of gore you expected.

I think the issue is more of the P-51 being still recognizable as a P-51, or even an aircraft, after taking what was close to a 10 second HO from the 262. I mean they ARE 4 30mm's firing at 650 rds/min, for a combined total of around 430 shells fired; basically, we're looking at a total mass of around 141 kg of shells being fired, with a whopping 36.5 kg of that being the HE filler of the shell.

After 36kg of HE to the face, an A10 Warthog would be done. A P-51 should be scrap metal.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Zacherof on July 02, 2013, 01:09:39 PM
Some 262 had 20mm guns :old:


























And WTF was that twisty move, cut throttle, pull up and you get and uber sharp yo-yo/split S half arse reversal?
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Shifty on July 02, 2013, 01:12:27 PM
And shifty, you seem to have ZERO information about the causes of ww2 OR YOU ARE CHOSING TO IGNOR the causes of ww2.  Which is it? both or neither lol?
Sooo naaaw, no bias on your part!  :lol

I'm pretty sure I know the causes of WWII. Unchecked aggression by Nazi Germany, and a wannabe in Italy. Not to mention Japanese aggression in China, followed by a sneak attack Pearl Harbor when they had to suffer consequences of their actions in China. Besides my conversation with Alpini13 had nothing to do with the causes of WWII, so you missed the whole boat on that conversation. Another thing it doesn't matter if you're German American French American Dutch American African American or Japanese American, you are American.  Also the German and Italian Americans suffered none of the prejudices the Japanese Americans and Black Americans had to deal with when it came to serving in the armed forces during WWII.

Was there all German and Italian US Army units because the rest of the soldiers would not serve with them? Did the US Military have to segregate in the late 40s to allow soldiers of German ancestry serve with the other soldiers? No they didn't and you know it. By the way I am of German ancestry myself, so I'm not anti German or anti Luftwaffe. I am anti Nazi though. I don't give a damn about George Lucas or his crappy movie. I do think it is the pinnacle of ignorance for a person to laugh and belittle at the efforts of his own countrymen that have served and suffered to provide many of the blessings he enjoys to this day while displaying unadulterated hero worship for the very people opposed to them. However you two citizens knock yourself out it is a free country after all, thanks to GIs not Luftwaffe pilots.  ;)
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: MK-84 on July 02, 2013, 07:53:10 PM
I want to punch Mr. Lucas in the face every time I hear about this movie. :mad:

P.S. Final Countdown...more believable movie!
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Zacherof on July 04, 2013, 08:38:07 PM
I want to punch Mr. Lucas in the face every time I hear about this movie. :mad:

P.S. Final Countdown...more believable movie!
that's classic! :aok
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Krusty on July 05, 2013, 01:47:03 AM
The physics in that movie were nonexistent... The movie sucked SO bad that Lucas threw a hissy fit when people didn't heap praise upon his unpolished and rather ripe turd of a film.

So he packed up his gear, sold it to Disney, and went to sulk in his room, because he is absolutely out of touch with reality.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: bustr on July 08, 2013, 04:41:55 PM
In the early 2000's a lawsuit concerning the myth of never loosing a bomber caused the Air Force to order all records of the Tuskegee group to be reviewed. The Air Force to it's credit didn't want any lies to stand as public record and tarnish their overall record how ever the research turned out.

All men and women who fight in wars are hero's for showing up and placing themselves in harms way or taking part in all of the efforts to achieve the end. Myths up to a point are good for moral. Past that point they become institutionalize lies that do no credit to anyone other than those using the lies for personal gain, while making you wonder about those who tacitly remained silent who had been there. A lot of personal gain has happened since the end of the war using the myth if you search for Tuskegee related organizations. The truth was not anything to be ashamed of after the war compared to other fighter groups. The 332nd performed as expected of an AAF fighter group and nothing more. Which in the world of civilian race politics was not enough compared to the grandeur of the myth.

There are no supermen in war. Just men willing to face the consequences with their lives.

The Air Force Historian charged with the research.

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123286425

The research.

http://www.tuskegee.edu/sites/www/Uploads/files/About%20US/Airmen/Nine_Myths_About_the_Tuskegee_Airmen.pdf

http://www.tuskegee.edu/sites/www/Uploads/files/About%20US/Airmen/TUSKEGEE_AIRMEN_CHRONOLOGY12.2011.pdf
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Franz Von Werra on July 11, 2013, 06:27:11 PM
Maybe I have had this all wrong...

Achievement shouldn't be win a ho agaisnt a 262...
Better yet, win a ho while in a 262!  :rock
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Karnak on July 11, 2013, 09:30:49 PM
I have to laugh at the guys who like to compare the kill stats of such and such Allied unit or ace with such and such German unit or ace.  A reporter even asked the top Allied ace in the European Theater of Operations Johnnie Johnson (39 kills) why he didn't get as many as leading ace Erich Hartman (352 kills) and he replied that he hadn't even seen that many enemy aircraft.

Germany (and Japan, Italy, Romania and Finland) all had "target rich environments" which is often a euphemism for "losing".  They had more opportunities to run up their scores than Allied pilots did because they fought longer and faced more enemy aircraft.

In addition, specific to the 332nd Fighter Group is the prejudice they faced from within the USAAF that may well have further limited their opportunities to come to grips with the enemy.

Details like these are things that certain distasteful people with abhorrent views like to ignore when they try to present "evidence" for those abhorrent views.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: MADe on July 14, 2013, 04:57:04 PM
Tell me 1 WW2 movie that got it right. That's why they call it fiction and entertainment.

Redtails never lost a bomber they escorted...................

German pilots did have better records, they also flew a hell of a lot more. Allied pilots were rotated out after so many missions flown, German pilots were not relieved until dead.......

In real life the British Hurricanes and early model Spitfires beat the crap out of Germany's air force. Remember the Battle of Britain. 1 bullet placed properly can bring down any plane, and thank god for that. Can you imagine if the Nazi's had been allowed to have thier way........................th ey murdered 13+ million men, women and children, not to mention military casualties. Good riddance I say.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Vinkman on July 16, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
don't suppose you've heard of shrapnel wounds...the non-armor piercing 30mm mk108 had a thin outer shell. they were designed to explode on impact, blow a hole in the airplane skin and throw shrapnel around. an engine compartment hit as was depicted would do pretty much what was seen depending on where in the engine compartment the hit occurred, could have been less, could have been more. a direct hit into the cockpit would have done more damage to the pilot but considering the amount of armor those planes had, a shell would have to explode inside the compartment to cause the amount of gore you expected.

I would think the 30mm was designed to penetrate the skin and then explode.  :salute
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: Tank-Ace on July 17, 2013, 12:41:11 AM
Tell me 1 WW2 movie that got it right. That's why they call it fiction and entertainment.

Redtails never lost a bomber they escorted...................

German pilots did have better records, they also flew a hell of a lot more. Allied pilots were rotated out after so many missions flown, German pilots were not relieved until dead.......

In real life the British Hurricanes and early model Spitfires beat the crap out of Germany's air force. Remember the Battle of Britain. 1 bullet placed properly can bring down any plane, and thank god for that. Can you imagine if the Nazi's had been allowed to have thier way........................th ey murdered 13+ million men, women and children, not to mention military casualties. Good riddance I say.

Ehh...  From everything I've heard, both sides kept slugging away at each other, and Germany decided to pack it in to prepare for Barbarossa, leaving the British with a strategic victory, while being at a tactical disadvantage.
Title: Re: 'George Lucas Lie' Achievement
Post by: dirtdart on July 24, 2013, 01:47:46 PM
The physics in that movie were nonexistent... The movie sucked SO bad that Lucas threw a hissy fit when people didn't heap praise upon his unpolished and rather ripe turd of a film.

So he packed up his gear, sold it to Disney, and went to sulk in his room, because he is absolutely out of touch with reality.

The spin move was a straight steal from on of the "Dogfights" episodes where the guy talks about doing the flat plate or plate, I do not recall the guys name (in a mustang).